Could there be a Metals only event?

[Romulan]

Good day, I was wondering if it d be possible to have a special event where for 3 days nothing but metals showed up in all the biomes: Coppers, Golds, Silvers?

 

I joined Dragon Cave a few years ago, however after the days of Old Pinks, Frilled and some of the other older Prizes. I was pretty obsessed and watches the caves at all hours of the days. In all that time Ive seen only Golds and Silvers in the biomes 2 times and that was during holiday breeding time.

 

I ve been lucky to catch a few CB coppers, and a very nice Dragon Cave person gifted me with my only CB Gold . But Ive never caught a CB gold or silver and I find that is very true for most of the newer players that have joined in the last 2-3 years.

 

Most of us also don't have the requisite CB Prize dragons or first few year holiday dragons which seem to be required for any CB Gold or Silver trades.

 

So, would it be possible for there to be such an event? It d mean for those of us who would like them for lineage projects or just to achieve the goal of catching them as CBs.

 

Doing it for 3 days wouldnt reduce the overall rarity either of the metals but it would mean the world to of players who have all but lost hope of ever getting a CB metal. (Not too mention any bots would get filled up and still let there be a chance for the newer playars.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Romulan

[cyradis4]

Its a nice sentiment, but.... it won't work.

 

ANY deluge of CB metals will drive them into super-rarity. A number of years ago, there was a blip and they were coming at an uncommon rate.... and that drove them into stratospheric rarity for YEARS. They only recovered in the last two years or so.

 

So: absolutely no support. I can't catch metals either, I have to trade for them.

 

However, you might want to look into the store thread. You WILL be able to get metals via that method.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[_Sin_]

Disclosure: I've a fast connection and I've been lucky enough to catch metals. Notwithstanding that, I think the event would be... amusing. Considering the rarity, I think that 1 day event would be long enough.

In any case, much drama would ensue: "I was not aware, computer was not working, dog ate the mouse..."

 

@cyradis4:

The latest big metal flood happened three years ago.

Edited April 25, 2016 by _Sin_

[The_Impossible_Girl]

As nice as it would be to have cave prize dragons drop, the idea behind them is that the cave bred prizes were won as a prize for an event a user participated in. This being said there are only a few cave bred prizes. So if more prize dragons were to be dropped in cave then they would no longer be prize dragons.

[wondergirl888]

I was thinking that if it were only for a few egg drops, the raritiy of the dragons won't be affected.

[_Sin_]

As nice as it would be to have cave prize dragons drop, the idea behind them is that the cave bred prizes were won as a prize for an event a user participated in. This being said there are only a few cave bred prizes. So if more prize dragons were to be dropped in cave then they would no longer be prize dragons.

The OP is about CB Metals (Golds, Silvers, Coppers), not prizes.

[CowlRaven]

as much as I'd love for something like this to happen so I wouldn't have to worry about CB metals anymore, I can't give this my support. doing something like this, even for one day, would throw the ratios off way more than they are now. already people have difficulty seeing CB metals in the caves because people are just breeding them all the time, which counts as them still showing up on the site. (｡•́︿•̀｡)

 

unfortunately, any kind of metal-only drop in the cave would throw off the rarity immensely even if it were only for a couple hours. it's why new release dragons take a couple of days to cool down before dropping at their normal rate.

 

EDIT: i can only see two outcomes from this sort of thing - metals start dropping all the time because all of a sudden everyone has CB ones and no longer cares, or they skyrocket into an even more intense drought and no one can get CB ones for months/years

Edited April 25, 2016 by CowlRaven

[_Sin_]

While I'm not particularly interested on this suggestion, other than for the entertainment factor, I'm not sure that I agree with the "sky will fall" replies.

I just bumped up a topic that started during the "big flood" of 2013, kind of documenting user experience all way to August 2014:

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=147470

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Sadly after that happened, metals got rarer than ever. But I don't think this would work. We are all aware of a few scripters (It only takes a few) who would just create more scrolls and snag the lot. I can't support it, much as I am desperate for one more CB gold

 

I have seen golds, and even caught ONE, and I have caught silvers, by the way.

Edited April 25, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Romulan]

I have a fast connection and I tried every legal way. (checking every 5 minutes, having 5 windows open so I could watch the biomes, checking at different hours of the day, including times when most people are at work...). I really do think there are some bots at work but its kinda hard to track.

 

Also, it doesnt have to mess up the ratios if these metals get tagged- same way that TJ tags the holidays and GON. So that they dont count with the general metals.

 

The 3 days is to help ensure that everyone can get them because frankly we ve grown too much for there to be enough eggs dropped in a single day for all players to get eggs.

 

 

I dont know what you mean by the store thread. But like I said before I dont have the 2 items (Prizes and early holiday CBs) that are usually required to trade for CB Golds and Silvers -many of the new players dont have them.

 

And frankly the behavior on some of the trading threads has become very poor. Look at TJs take and trade thing. I have personally had happen and several others have had it too, where people dont actually put something up for what they take -they seem to but then cancel their trade after they get the egg.

[Correction - 3 items wanted. I forgot to mention retired dragons (old pinks, frilled)]

Edited April 25, 2016 by Romulan

[Kith]

Here's the store thread so you can have a look.

 

People generally have issues with a 3-day event because of the ability to incubate and then catch another round of eggs, and most of the purpose behind an event like this depends on everyone only having a single batch.

[AGYK]

No support.

 

Assuming a normal event with normal metals, the ratios will be borked for years. In the past, even noticeably higher metal droprates have been enough to destroy long-term future droprates.

 

Assuming "tagged" metals, as your most recent post suggests, the trade threads will still go bork. Metals will temporarily dip to uncommon values, and low-gen prizes are likely to get even more ridiculous.

 

You're also overestimating your ability to stand against multis and come away with anything. I was recently told about someone who made half-a-dozen scrolls, all with nothing but CB golds and a few magi. They were obviously reported to TJ, but still - when you're competing with someone who has 50+ eggslots, how do you intend to come away with more than one or two eggs of your own? And that doesn't even factor in all the super-quick legitimate catchers.

 

_Sin_ is also right about the drama. People already cry about the normal releases. "It's so unfair, I wasn't here and now the release is over" "I always miss releases" "I just know these are gonna be rare, I sat in the cave for 5 minutes and didn't see any". And all of that is with normal, permanent releases, the most recent of which have proved to be quite common indeed. Now take that and scale up to CB metals on a limited-time release, add a guarantee that not everyone gets what they want, and watch the fireworks.

 

Also disagree with your proposed drop length. If you want to help everyone get some, 2-day drop. If you want to ensure the day 1 crowd can come back for a second helping, 3-day drop.

 

Last but not least, I disagree with your assertion about the trade threads.

 

Take an egg is a gifting/swapping thread, not a trading thread, and many of the gifting threads are quite healthy indeed. Breeding & Gifting hands out pretty things and shinies on a regular basis - as a matter of fact, I have a 2g gold in a 1-way teleport waiting for someone right now. Some of the other gifting threads are also quite busy. Take an egg has an abuse mechanism and a lack of human oversight so people are, naturally, abusing it. Gifting threads run by humans are much less abusable and much more inclined to ban when people attempt abuse, so people are much better behaved.

 

The trade threads are largely prize-centered, that's true. But with Prize Central housing all prize-related trading, and the Metallic thread giving you an place to look through metal offers, I don't see the problem. (Actually, glancing at the last few pages of the Metallic thread shows a surprising amount of variety in what people want for their CBs. I see anything from other CB metals to specific lineage mates to 2g prizes to CB NDs.)

[diaveborn]

Would it be possible to have an event like this where the ratios were ignored?

[_Sin_]

Assuming "tagged" metals, as your most recent post suggests, the trade threads will still go bork. Metals will temporarily dip to uncommon values, and low-gen prizes are likely to get even more ridiculous.

I must agree with this point. During the 2013 flood, people were offering 6 CB metals for a 2nd Gen Prize.

[stagazer_7]

As much as I would like to boost my collection of Metallics (I also cannot manage to catch even a single one myself - all of my CB Metals were either gifts or trades), I can't give my support to this, because... well, others have already said it - it would wreck the ratios, it would cause a LOT of drama as not everyone would be able to participate + it can be pretty tough to catch regular new releases where we don't know the dragon's rarity, I cannot imagine the grabfest that would result as everyone and their spouses, kids, pets and the friendly neighbor next door would try to get their hands on a super rare like a Metallic. I simply cannot see this working without some long time negative consequences...

[DragonNighthowler]

I can't agree with this option. I don't think it would solve the issue, and would merely be a relief. In my opinion the best approach would be to keep metal rare but not so ridiculously rare.

[Kovia]

But seriously, rares are rare for a reason. If everyone had one they wouldn't have any value anymore.

[~Magpie~]

I for one am actually in favor of either reworking the whole ratios thing or doing away with it completely in favor of some other system (I've read in other threads that people have had massive trouble breeding certain commons from common pairings, which is not something I think should be happening), but either way I still don't think this is a good idea.

 

As everybody else said, in the end I think an event like this would cause far too much drama and disappointment. As others have pointed out, there's always going to be some people who were too busy, didn't have reliable enough internet, or went on vacation or something. And to be fair, if I went on vacation to find out I missed something like this, I'd be a little upset too.

 

The heart of this suggestion is in the right place, that is, make rares slightly more accessible, but I'm just not sure this will fix anything. And this is coming from someone who's been around for years (long hiatus aside) who's never once got their hands on a CB Gold or Silver, as a gift or otherwise. If anything, we need a more long-term solution, which something like the Store suggestion attempts to address pretty well.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ~Magpie~

[NotBambi]

I just bumped up a topic that started during the "big flood" of 2013, kind of documenting user experience all way to August 2014:

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=147470

Would a slight change in rarity for a specific period, like the one that caused the CB Metals everywhere season, be acceptable? I'm not suggesting it, just looking for opinions.

[Romulan]

So Fine -2 days and have it announced well in advance so that way people can know of it. tag with a limit. How would a tagged metal mess up the ratios for regular metals?

 

They'd need to be flagged so they dont come up in regular metal counts and thus the ratios are preserved.

 

Basically it comes down to you all say no you wont support it cause you think the ratios will get messed up and all of us newer players are just SOL. 'Rares are suppose to be rare' -yeah and multi scrolling and bots are illegal and will get scroll burned. yet thats still happening which is causing people to not have a chance at rares which turns them into un reacheable -and is not what they are intended to be.

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares due to bots and multi-scrolling.

 

Honestly,I dont understand how bots are not caught more often, since there is an action log for each of our scrolls that means there is a source in the database for tracking all actions. A simple query alert could be setup to track people that are consistently catching metals and only metals or metals and rares. This could be combined with tracking for scrolls that auto relay the rares/metals to same scrolls consistently, or even do the scroll jumping.

 

Also its unfair the people who breed super messy lineages of rares or commons and toss them in the APs just for the purpose of screwing up the ratios. I cant remember the last time I saw a CB mint in the biomes and I know its due to whoever it is, filling up the AP with a wall of Mints at least once a week.

 

[The_Impossible_Girl]

So Fine -2 days and have it announced well in advance so that way people can know of it. tag with a limit. How would a tagged metal mess up the ratios for regular metals?

 

They'd need to be flagged so they dont come up in regular metal counts and thus the ratios are preserved.

 

Basically it comes down to you all say no you wont support it cause you think the ratios will get messed up and all of us newer players are just SOL.  'Rares are suppose to be rare' -yeah and multi scrolling and bots are illegal and will get scroll burned. yet thats still happening which is causing people to not have a chance at rares which turns them into un reacheable -and is not what they are intended to be.

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares due to bots and multi-scrolling.

 

Honestly,I dont understand how bots are not caught more often, since there is an action log for each of our scrolls that means there is a source in the database for tracking all actions. A simple query alert could be setup to track people that are consistently catching metals and only metals or metals and rares.  This could be combined with tracking for scrolls that auto relay the rares/metals to same scrolls consistently, or even do the scroll jumping.

 

Also its unfair the people who breed super messy lineages of rares or commons and toss them in the APs just for the purpose of screwing up the ratios.  I cant remember the last time I saw a CB mint in the biomes and I know its due to whoever it is, filling up the AP with a wall of Mints at least once a week.

Romulan, I've been a member since 2011 and I still haven't caught a cave bred silver or gold, or any other metallic dragons, with the exception of one golden wyvern. The only reason I even have any metallic dragons is because I was there for the copper release, and because some generous people in the trading thread gave me the only gold and silver dragons I own. So it’s not only new players that don’t have any metallic dragons, plenty of older players don't as well.

Edited April 25, 2016 by w5aw5

[Kith]

all of us newer players are just SOL

I'm curious as to why you believe the current system punishes newer players especially in the way of metals, since there are many people who've played for years and never caught any either.

 

While I do agree that some sort of solution is needed, I'm not sure this will be the most viable one in the long run. A ratio adjustment or something like the store would probably work better than a one-time flood event.

[CowlRaven]

I don't think people are breeding messy lineaged rares and tossing them to the AP because they want to screw with the ratios. mostly it's new players, or people who don't care about lineages who end up doing things like that because either their dragon bred more than one egg, they want to do something nice and give someone a chance at getting something, or just didn't want the egg anymore. this isn't being unfair. it's just playing the game.

 

while I certainly agree that we need to be more vigilant with multi-scrolling, I have my doubts that someone would be catching so many CB, or even low-gen metallics that they feel the need to even make a second scroll just to hold them all. in the case of this event that would definitely happen but as of right now I severely doubt that happens. I've been a member since 2009 and I have yet to catch a CB metallic (besides coppers since I was there for the release) and I haven't even seen more than 2 golds in the cave.

 

I'm all for lowering the rarity of metallics from their "very rare" status to simply "rare" to make it easier for players to catch them, but I still don't see an event flooding the caves with nothing but golds, silvers, and coppers for 2 days leading to anything but drama and messed up rarity. even if the ratios stay the same, the amount of CB metallics everyone suddenly has will lead to what happened before with people offering entire clutches of them for 1 egg.

 

and no matter how much something is prepared for in advance there will still be people complaining that they missed it; eg. holiday events.

 

perhaps a suggestion to simply lower the rarity of cb metallics somewhat would be better?

[Eos]

I cant remember the last time I saw a CB mint in the biomes and I know its due to whoever it is, filling up the AP with a wall of Mints at least once a week.

They're there. Believe me. I am staring at one in the Jungle as I type this post right now.

 

But anyway, regarding the suggestion: I like seeing Golds in the cave (even though I rarely catch them). If we did something like this, we wouldn't see them again for yonks (I'm guessing). Now, it would be super fun if we could have a small event if it did NOT affect the ratios (around the 10th birthday, for example), but that's a pipe dream in my opinion. In short, I don't think this suggestion would help things in the long run (even if it would be fun).

Edited April 25, 2016 by Eos

[olympe]

So Fine -2 days and have it announced well in advance so that way people can know of it. tag with a limit. How would a tagged metal mess up the ratios for regular metals?

 

They'd need to be flagged so they dont come up in regular metal counts and thus the ratios are preserved.

 

Basically it comes down to you all say no you wont support it cause you think the ratios will get messed up and all of us newer players are just SOL.  'Rares are suppose to be rare' -yeah and multi scrolling and bots are illegal and will get scroll burned. yet thats still happening which is causing people to not have a chance at rares which turns them into un reacheable -and is not what they are intended to be.

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares due to bots and multi-scrolling.

 

Honestly,I dont understand how bots are not caught more often, since there is an action log for each of our scrolls that means there is a source in the database for tracking all actions. A simple query alert could be setup to track people that are consistently catching metals and only metals or metals and rares.  This could be combined with tracking for scrolls that auto relay the rares/metals to same scrolls consistently, or even do the scroll jumping.

 

Also its unfair the people who breed super messy lineages of rares or commons and toss them in the APs just for the purpose of screwing up the ratios.  I cant remember the last time I saw a CB mint in the biomes and I know its due to whoever it is, filling up the AP with a wall of Mints at least once a week.

Newer players? I've been playing regularly (with only the odd 2-week hiatus for vacation time every couple of years) for 6.5 year by now. I still have to catch my first own CB gold. (I got two from very amazing and generous people, so I'm not completely without. )

 

I'm also not a friend of the "rares are rare for a reason" reasoning. Yes, rares are supposed to be rare, or there would be no point to rarity. But there's a difference between rare and practically non-existent for rule-abiding regular users without both killer internet and killer reflexes.

 

Still, I've been here for the big metal drought. As a matter of fact, I started about half a year after it hit. And that drought stayed for 2+ years. It was awful, and I don't want to see anything like it ever again. Because it also affected metal breeding in a very bad way. *shudders*

 

Regarding walls of messies or walls of one breed, feel free to kill all the eggs you see. Or bite them. But that's an entirely different topic that belongs in SD. (As a matter of fact, there should be at least two different mass-breeding discussion threads.)

 

Personally, I prefer an alternate way to obtain the occasional rare, like the store suggestion or mini-games. This way, the effort is so high that it won't pay off to cheat - unlike a 48-hour metal flood.

 

I like seeing Golds in the cave (even though I rarely catch them).

Well, I would like to see them, too. I saw one during the aftermath of the Celestial release, and the one before that... must have been years ago, seriously.

Edited April 25, 2016 by olympe