DC Currency

[HeatherMarie]

There are a few things I find DO NOT WANT about this suggestion. First, I've seen mentioned pay-for-play. I do not want real money in this game in any way. This game is different from all the others, and that's why many people play this game. Because it's different.

 

I also don't think that you are thinking about the *good* side of breeding and abandoning. I've built a Royal Blue army of 923, almost completely with AP eggs. I would not have gotten those eggs if people wouldn't have bred them. And I breed *plenty* of golds and silvers to the AP. At one point last month I sent 4 silvers and 2 golds to the AP in one hour. And you think that people should be *discouraged* from abandoning those eggs?? Really?

[JurassicAsh]

Or abandoning a new cb egg before 5 hours is up?

 

Maybe you could also get rid of dead eggs early (egg slot and/or the sprite, I'm cool with both)?

 

What about buying one more temporary egg slot (you could only buy one at a time and once just one egg hatched, you'd have to wait for another egg to hatch or buy another extra slot to be able to grab again)?

 

Possibly buy a chance for a multiclutch?

 

Buy "incubating" a hatchie (probably won't happen since we don't have it now, but worth a shot, lol)?

 

Just throwing some ideas out. o.o

 

~

 

Tbh, I probably never would have supported this if people weren't finding the cave so stagnant. But if it would help eggs move, sure, I'll give it a try.

I love sock's suggestions, and I know somebody may have brought this up already, but I can see inflation becoming a major problem. So I propose we include a dragon tax. Now I don't know that much about politics so somebody else could probably explain this way better, but a tax that goes up the more wealth/dragons you have, that kicks in at about maybe 2,500 or 5,000 gold, or once you get the bronze trophy. This could help prevent one player from accumulating millions upon millions of gold coins while a player of about the same caliber has coins in the hundred-thousands.

 

Also, thinking from a story telling standpoint, I feel Valkemare's monetary system, should have a much better name that just gold. The Elder Scrolls series had gold, yet they called them septims, tying in a bit better into the fantasy world than just gold. Other than that I am all for this idea! (as long as there is no real life cash involved but that has already been thoroughly discussed.)

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Call them Scales... and instead of metal coins, they are real scales collected from scales shed by Gold, Silver and Copper dragons. Then we can say that because metallic dragons only shed scales at certain times that the supply is limited. Which could be a way to keep down prices and inflation.

 

Just a sudden thought that popped into my head after reading the 'call them something else' post. But regardless of what they're called, I just want some kind of currency and a store to spend it in.

[AGYK]

But regardless of what they're called, I just want some kind of currency and a store to spend it in.

Pretty much this tbh, although I would mostly use a store (a la Thuban's suggestion) for CB holidays. Kinda worried about the growing 2g problem.

[DragoonEagle]

I think what this currency is trying to achieve is to change the whole pace of the game, and adding more complexity to it.

 

BSA's can do everything that currency can do, and I think it's a much better, and much more fun, idea for the creators to look at these problems that DC users bring up and occasionally introduce a BSA dragon to solve it.

[~!~]

I like the store better. The problem I have with this suggestion is it feels like it's purpose is to inhibit me from playing as normal by forcing me to take CB eggs rather than breed.

That is exactly what this is trying to do. I believe that demand for CB eggs is too low, as evidenced by how slowly the eggs are taken from the biomes. This would give people an extra incentive to pick them up. It would not force anyone to do anything.

 

Also: yes, we do not need to encourage users to breed. There aren't site-wide problems caused by users not breeding enough. Breeding is fine and I'm not against it, but it currently happens at an appropriate rate.

 

Plus, if we give users rewards for breeding anything at all it'll just end up with an AP full of terrible lineages.

 

I don't understand why people are against users naming their own prices for the eggs they want to sell. That's just a more fluid version of what we have now, right?

 

(Also: I personally prefer CB metallics to breed metallics so, yes, I would like to see users discouraged from breeding them. But, that's just my opinion, and NOT what this suggestion is about.)

 

I'm gonna update the first post with the AP suggestion that's gotten the most support.

 

As PF13 pointed out earlier, a currency system will only be balanced if there are consistent gold sinks. How offended would everyone be if previously "free" things started costing gold to do? Bearing in mind, of course, that the primary methods of obtaining gold will be raising dragons, and possibly selling valuable eggs to other users, and that the bonuses for picking up eggs from the biomes and the AP will be comparatively small.

[JurassicAsh]

Call them Scales... and instead of metal coins, they are real scales collected from scales shed by Gold, Silver and Copper dragons. Then we can say that because metallic dragons only shed scales at certain times that the supply is limited. Which could be a way to keep down prices and inflation.

 

Just a sudden thought that popped into my head after reading the 'call them something else' post. But regardless of what they're called, I just want some kind of currency and a store to spend it in.

That's a really good idea for it, and it ties in with the lore of gold dragons and metallics etc. The reason I bring that up is I really enjoy stuff like little tidbits of information about a fantasy world like the name of their currency and what not. My only problem is scales from a dragon insinuates that you can make money of of owning a metallic dragon, like taking scales right off of the source.

 

Pretty much this tbh, although I would mostly use a store (a la Thuban's suggestion) for CB holidays. Kinda worried about the growing 2g problem.

Maybe CB holidays can only be bought within their holiday (halloween = CB Black marrows etc.)

they are still HOLIDAY dragons, buying them at any other time would ruin the point of them.

Edited April 2, 2016 by JurassicAsh

[~!~]

The currency should have some intrinsic value to it, so it's valuable to dragons as well as humans (or whatever the players are, in-game). I don't think they need to be anything other than coins, but I agree that calling them "gold" is kind of dumb. After all, real-world cultures have a name for their currency - pounds, euros, dollars, etc. If it was left up to me I'd call them something stupid like "draco-bucks" though, which I doubt has the "mystical" feel you all seem to prefer.

 

It makes a lot of sense that the people of this world (Valkymare, is it called now?) would base their currency off something dragon-related. Perhaps the currency was originally the scales of metallic dragons, or other dragons with particularly cool-looking scales (Sunsongs come to mind) but nowadays it's just manufactured stuff.

[JurassicAsh]

 

It makes a lot of sense that the people of this world (Valkymare, is it called now?) would base their currency off something dragon-related.  Perhaps the currency was originally the scales of metallic dragons, or other dragons with particularly cool-looking scales (Sunsongs come to mind) but nowadays it's just manufactured stuff.

What comes to mind for me are lumina dragons, well known for constantly picking out scales that they deem have even the slightest imperfection, so their scales would seem abundant and could be obtained without inhumane actions taken. They even shed them after breeding with certain kinds of dragons the leak a sort of gooey liquid (i.e. Waterhorses), but then my argument still stands, can you make profit off of owning and farming said dragon for it's scales? (and yes, it has been stated that in DC lore the world we explore is called Valkemare.)

 

EDIT:

 

Anybody remember those crystal mana shards used in the Christmas 2014 event? Maybe the currency can be called shards and based upon those crystals being highly coveted and having some monetary value to them.

I'm not really sure making this currency transferable between accounts is a good idea, though.

I don't think money should be transferable between accounts either, I think that could encourage the use of multiple accounts by the same user, which is not allowed on DC.

Edited April 2, 2016 by JurassicAsh

[olympe]

First of all, I'm definitely in favor of adding currency - for use in a store. And, yes, there's also a suggestion to let people earn currency by hatching and/or raising dragons. Just not for catching. To avoid the problem of letting people earn gold coins (mana, scales, whatever) by catching and abandoning eggs.

 

I'm not really sure making this currency transferable between accounts is a good idea, though. Right now, there's a certain spirit of generosity around. Many of us breed dragons for free, even special lineages, like holiday checkers and the like. But what will happen if we can sell the eggs instead of gifting them? (Yes, I know. Many of us do bloodswaps, which is fine, too.) I think that greed will quickly enter the equation. Why gift an egg if we could sell it for some currency to save up for something really special? What will happen to the ratios if everyone and their 2nd cousin start breeding all their (messy/inbred) metallics weekly in order to sell to the highest bidder, even if this bid is pretty low? And what do you think who will, eventually, be the first to be able to afford something really rare (CB prize, CB gold...)? Of course the people who already can trade for them on a (semi-)regular basis. Overall, this suggestion would benefit those players who already are on the lucky side more than those who aren't. Which doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

 

Overall, I feel that allowing people to use currency for trading with each other might have various effects which could prove disastrous for the site.

[~!~]

Right now, there's a certain spirit of generosity around. Many of us breed dragons for free, even special lineages, like holiday checkers and the like. But what will happen if we can sell the eggs instead of gifting them? (Yes, I know. Many of us do bloodswaps, which is fine, too.) I think that greed will quickly enter the equation. Why gift an egg if we could sell it for some currency to save up for something really special?.

I agree that there exists a spirit of generosity. Right now, certain users have the ability to reliably produce high-value eggs via breeding. It doesn't cost you anything to breed, for example, a 2nd-gen Gold, and gift it to another user, if you weren't planning on breeding that Gold dragon to get an egg for yourself.

 

Usually these people don't particularly want anything (or they'd be trading their nice egg instead of gifting it) or their egg isn't actually worth the trades they want. In the first case, they have no real need to save up gold, so there's no reason for them to suddenly switch to selling their eggs. In the second case, they won't be able to get much gold for their egg.

 

I don't see why there wouldn't still be people giving away eggs, or at least selling them for affordable prices, considering it will not cost any money to create said eggs.

 

What will happen to the ratios if everyone and their 2nd cousin start breeding all their (messy/inbred) metallics weekly in order to sell to the highest bidder, even if this bid is pretty low?.

I would expect that metallics with bad lineages will be so undesirable that people could get more money for nice-lineaged or CB commons. Like, if you can't trade them for anything, you probably won't be able to sell them for very much.

 

And what do you think who will, eventually, be the first to be able to afford something really rare (CB prize, CB gold...)? Of course the people who already can trade for them on a (semi-)regular basis. Overall, this suggestion would benefit those players who already are on the lucky side more than those who aren't. Which doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

I think this suggestion will benefit everyone. It will make it easier for players with access to the most valuable eggs to exchange them for things they particularly want, but it will also make it easier for the rest of us for the same reasons. It will just add fluidity and flexibility to the currently existing trade market.

[NotBambi]

I agree that there exists a spirit of generosity. Right now, certain users have the ability to reliably produce high-value eggs via breeding. It doesn't cost you anything to breed, for example, a 2nd-gen Gold, and gift it to another user, if you weren't planning on breeding that Gold dragon to get an egg for yourself.

 

Usually these people don't particularly want anything (or they'd be trading their nice egg instead of gifting it) or their egg isn't actually worth the trades they want. In the first case, they have no real need to save up gold, so there's no reason for them to suddenly switch to selling their eggs. In the second case, they won't be able to get much gold for their egg.

 

I don't see why there wouldn't still be people giving away eggs, or at least selling them for affordable prices, considering it will not cost any money to create said eggs.

 

I would expect that metallics with bad lineages will be so undesirable that people could get more money for nice-lineaged or CB commons. Like, if you can't trade them for anything, you probably won't be able to sell them for very much.

 

I think this suggestion will benefit everyone. It will make it easier for players with access to the most valuable eggs to exchange them for things they particularly want, but it will also make it easier for the rest of us for the same reasons. It will just add fluidity and flexibility to the currently existing trade market.

I'm one of those users able to "produce high-value eggs via breeding" and I must agree with your points: I would not be selling bred eggs, to give them away is quite rewarding. I've been inactive for a few weeks since there was nothing interesting going on in DC, from my personal point of view, but if I stay around, currency or not, I'll just fall on my usual pattern.

Your point about "undesirable metallics" sounds right, why would people pay for bad lineages, when can get nice and short ones for free?

DC currency would be useful. I hunt a lot and most of the time I do not find around anything I would want to trade for. In consequence, to put away currency, until I find something I would want to spend on, sounds like a great idea.

 

[Vhale]

That is exactly what this is trying to do.  I believe that demand for CB eggs is too low, as evidenced by how slowly the eggs are taken from the biomes.  This would give people an extra incentive to pick them up.  It would not force anyone to do anything.

 

Also: yes, we do not need to encourage users to breed.  There aren't site-wide problems caused by users not breeding enough.  Breeding is fine and I'm not against it, but it currently happens at an appropriate rate.

Then no support. This would amount to daily quests. The slow clickers would be forced to mine rares for the fast clickers in order to get their lineage breeding done. Harsh. I'd call this suggestion forced labor. (And I myself am a fast clicker. I catch rares when the AP rotates or someone else takes an egg. This would be great for me, very bad for others)

Edited April 3, 2016 by Vhale

[Fuzzbucket]

Then no support. This would amount to daily quests. The slow clickers would be forced to mine rares for the fast clickers in order to get their lineage breeding done. Harsh. I'd call this suggestion forced labor. (And I myself am a fast clicker. I catch rares when the AP rotates or someone else takes an egg. This would be great for me, very bad for others)

Right on. The store idea works. A more diffuse currency has ISSUES.

[SullenCat]

Call them Scales... and instead of metal coins, they are real scales collected from scales shed by Gold, Silver and Copper dragons. Then we can say that because metallic dragons only shed scales at certain times that the supply is limited. Which could be a way to keep down prices and inflation.

 

Just a sudden thought that popped into my head after reading the 'call them something else' post. But regardless of what they're called, I just want some kind of currency and a store to spend it in.

Same here. I support the idea of the currency, spendable at the store and on trades.

[~!~]

Then no support. This would amount to daily quests. The slow clickers would be forced to mine rares for the fast clickers in order to get their lineage breeding done. Harsh. I'd call this suggestion forced labor. (And I myself am a fast clicker. I catch rares when the AP rotates or someone else takes an egg. This would be great for me, very bad for others)

Lineage breeding would not be affected at all by this suggestion? Breeding in general would not be affected at all? Because, you would actually be rewarded for picking up CBs, which you need to start lineages, and you're not penalized at all for breeding. Unless you're talking about breeding lineages of rares, in which case, I don't have much sympathy. I don't have any problem inconveniencing players who breed lots of rares to their own scrolls, causing the site to lower the population of rares the rest of us have a shot at getting to keep the ratios balanced.

 

Why do you think slow clickers (who can't catch rares) would be forced to mine rares for fast clickers (who can)?

 

The way the site works, users are already forced to pick up CBs they don't want if they want rares to ever appear. The site deliberately balances things so that there need to be 500 Neotropicals for every Silver, or something like that. That's why you get more egg slots for raising tons and tons of dragons. That's why there are user-driven projects to encourage people to pick up commons they otherwise wouldn't.

[AGYK]

Maybe CB holidays can only be bought within their holiday (halloween = CB Black marrows etc.)

they are still HOLIDAY dragons, buying them at any other time would ruin the point of them.

The original suggestion explicitly features no store for CBs, hence my lament that I'd rather use currency (not picky about its form) for a store with holidays.

 

Right now, certain users have the ability to reliably produce high-value eggs via breeding.  It doesn't cost you anything to breed, for example, a 2nd-gen Gold, and gift it to another user, if you weren't planning on breeding that Gold dragon to get an egg for yourself.

 

Usually these people don't particularly want anything (or they'd be trading their nice egg instead of gifting it) or their egg isn't actually worth the trades they want.  In the first case, they have no real need to save up gold, so there's no reason for them to suddenly switch to selling their eggs.  In the second case, they won't be able to get much gold for their egg.

As one of the people who breeds pretty things, I feel the need to chime in over this. I obviously can't speak for others, but I breed my pretty things directly to the AP, with every intention of giving them away. I could probably try to trade them away, but I'd rather gift them. Yeah, if someone wants to trade for an egg from a pair, I might pause my weekly AP-breeding to handle that trade. I've already done a few lineage swaps this way. But I'd go right back to breeding to the AP after, as I do now.

 

What will happen to the ratios if everyone and their 2nd cousin start breeding all their (messy/inbred) metallics weekly in order to sell to the highest bidder, even if this bid is pretty low?

How is this any different from what we have now, though? Messy/inbred metals don't get much interest (low bids) because they're just not that good. I don't see why a world with currency has anything different. Sure, you can stockpile a thousand low bids to get something good, but that strikes me as rather a waste of time. If you seriously plan to fund a 2g prize buy via breeding a messy metal or two, I expect it'll take years, between the rarity of successful breedings and the low RoI of each success. You're better off just finding someone willing to trade a 2g prize for 50 CB commons or something like that.

[NotBambi]

Lineage breeding would not be affected at all by this suggestion?  Breeding in general would not be affected at all?  Because, you would actually be rewarded for picking up CBs, which you need to start lineages, and you're not penalized at all for breeding.  Unless you're talking about breeding lineages of rares, in which case, I don't have much sympathy.  I don't have any problem inconveniencing players who breed lots of rares to their own scrolls, causing the site to lower the population of rares the rest of us have a shot at getting to keep the ratios balanced.

 

Why do you think slow clickers (who can't catch rares) would be forced to mine rares for fast clickers (who can)?

 

The way the site works, users are already forced to pick up CBs they don't want if they want rares to ever appear.  The site deliberately balances things so that there need to be 500 Neotropicals for every Silver, or something like that.  That's why you get more egg slots for raising tons and tons of dragons.  That's why there are user-driven projects to encourage people to pick up commons they otherwise wouldn't.

Uh I don't think I can agree. I breed 2nd Gen metals to give away, not for my scroll. But how would the system know that? I would end penalized? For gifting?

 

Editing to agree (100%) with AGYK.

Edited April 4, 2016 by NotBambi

[~!~]

Uh I don't think I can agree. I breed 2nd Gen metals to give away, not for my scroll. But how would the system know that? I would end penalized? For gifting?

 

Editing to agree (100%) with AGYK.

I have sympathy for people who breed rares to gift, but not for people who breed rares to keep.

 

What I don't like is a bunch of rares getting generated that aren't available for anyone to get, because that lowers the number of rares created that are available for all. If you breed rares to toss to the AP (which I also do) fine. If you breed rares to gift to anyone who wants them, fine.

 

However, I don't actually understand why this suggestion will result in breeding being penalized. In fact, if you guys are really concerned, there could be an additional way of obtaining gold for gifting rares. If you Transfer (for free - not as a trade or a sell) a high-demand (overpopulated or site-regulated rare) egg to a scroll with... less than a fixed number (5?) of that dragon, you get some gold for it.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have sympathy for people who breed rares to gift, but not for people who breed rares to keep.

ER - excuse me. I have lineages I am building - are you saying these are in some way not OK because I bred them to keep ??

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/MYVmP

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Dlrcp

http://dragcave.net/lineage/sIu9Q

 

 

and others ?

[Fiona]

I found that pretty insulting too, fuzz. It's like saying cave hunting is more important than building lineages by breeding so people should not be building lineages with rare dragons. We should leave those to the "important people" and make ourselves be content with building lineages only with dragons nobody else wants anyway. Shame on us!

[~!~]

The reason is because Dragon Cave is a zero-sum game. The cave produces fewer Golds the more people breed. If you breed a Gold egg to your scroll that's one less that the cave will produce - one less that's available to everyone else.

 

I don't think this is wrong or shameful, I just don't think it benefits the site as a whole. Therefore I don't think there's any need to propose changes to the site that make people even more likely to do it.

 

There's an argument to be made that generating eggs like the ones fuzz linked benefits the site by creating unique, high-value goods, but the problem with that argument is you're creating them in such a way that no one but you has access to them, unless you choose to give the egg away.

[Fiona]

The problem with that argument is that is implies that the cave hunter has more right to have a gold egg than I do, which is patently false. Everyone has equal right to have whatever gold eggs are generated by any means. That's my issue with separating cave eggs for treatment that is different than bred eggs. As long as all eggs are treated equally despite their origin I don't have a particular problem with this suggestion. Separate cave eggs for special treatment that bred eggs don't get and I have a problem.

[Fuzzbucket]

The problem with that argument is that is implies that the cave hunter has more right to have a gold egg than I do, which is patently false. Everyone has equal right to have whatever gold eggs are generated by any means. That's my issue with separating cave eggs for treatment that is different than bred eggs. As long as all eggs are treated equally despite their origin I don't have a particular problem with this suggestion. Separate cave eggs for special treatment that bred eggs don't get and I have a problem.

Exactly. And to be honest, while I breed for free and gift like crazy, I don't play the game to benefit the site as a whole - I play it to benefit ME (and in some cases, my friends.)

 

I would be willing to bet every last player would have to say the same, if they were honest.

[HeatherMarie]

The problem with that argument is that is implies that the cave hunter has more right to have a gold egg than I do, which is patently false. Everyone has equal right to have whatever gold eggs are generated by any means. That's my issue with separating cave eggs for treatment that is different than bred eggs. As long as all eggs are treated equally despite their origin I don't have a particular problem with this suggestion. Separate cave eggs for special treatment that bred eggs don't get and I have a problem.

I completely agree. Why are cave hunters more deserving of a gold then I am? Why is it a bad thing if I breed a gold and keep it? At the heart of the game, everyone plays for themselves. Their own scroll goals. They can accomplish them by breeding, cave-hunting, AP-hunting, trading. Why is cave-hunting suddenly the most important thing?