DC Currency

[~!~]

I realize that this is almost a duplicate of Thuban's store thread, but I'd like to talk about currency in a thread that isn't tied to those other ideas. I think currency could be a useful addition to DC just on its own.

 

I hope to avoid most of the drama of the store thread by steering clear of "buying eggs." I agree with the dissenters in that thread that being able to buy an egg would change the game in drastic ways (although I'm not sure if they are bad ways...) so I don't want to discuss that here. You will, however, be able to buy dragons from other users, but for user-determined prices, not site-determined ones. It will be exactly like trading currently is, but instead of exchanging dragons for dragons, you would exchange them for gold. It would supplement trading, not replace it.

 

In Thuban's thread they call their currency "points" or "mana" but I feel like gold is appropriate? Physical, material treasure - shiny things. It is Dragon Cave, after all, and dragons are known for hoarding treasure, right? So I'm gonna call it gold for the time being.

 

Obtaining currency:

Thuban's thread already has a lot of great ideas for obtaining gold, as well as rich discussion about how it should be limited. However, a lot of that discussion is predicated on the fact that money will be used to obtain dragons, which this thread is not going to assume. All I propose is for a currency that greases the wheels DC already has, rather than adding anything new. (And, if in-game currency is implemented, people can suggest new features to interface with it.)

 

So, these are all ways that I purpose gold can be collected. I would like to implement these all together, so that users with different play styles can get gold in different ways.

 

Passive

Maybe have little piles of 5-10 gold show up like the Easter eggs, or Halloweeen treats? This way you can't make an auto-refresher do the work for you. Pros: works equally well with any play style. Cons: requires JS enabled.

 

Clicks

Giving clicks to eggs or hatchlings should yield 1-5 gold, only when the click is actually counted toward the dragons "clicks."

So far the only cons I've seen to this are "but I don't wanna click." So like... don't then? There's other ways to get gold.

 

Biomes

As eggs sit in the biomes, they slowly accumulate wealth. Every second, they have a 50% chance of gaining 1 gold piece. So a rare egg, or a new release, or anything that will otherwise get snatched up really quickly, will not come with any gold. However, eggs that are in lower demand will sit in the cave and accumulate gold until someone takes them. Users will not know how much gold an egg has until they grab it.

Pros: gets eggs out of the cave

Cons: "but I don't wanna take the cave eggs!" yeah I know, no one does, that's why I'm suggesting literally paying you to do it

 

Abandoned Page

Eggs (and hatchlings) accumulate gold in the AP as well, at a slower rate (because they are also losing time here). An AP egg starts with 0 gold and gains 1-0 for every 5 seconds that the egg is showing and available on the AP. (Eggs on the AP that do not have enough time to show on the page will not gain gold.) It will start with 5 extra gold for each time it's been abandoned.

 

Paying to Abandon

I propose the following mechanic to balance the two ways to obtain gold by picking up eggs: If you got gold when you picked up an egg, you have to pay that much when you abandon it. So, if you snatch a Paper from the cave in 0.02 seconds, you don't have to pay anything to abandon it. If you breed an egg, you don't pay to abandon it. But, if you got a Guardian egg from the volcano after it had sat there for 30 seconds, and you got 17 gold when you picked it up, you have to pay that 17 gold back to the cave when you abandon the egg.

 

Raising Dragons

Hatching an egg will gain you some gold. Depending on the breed, it may give you a lot or a little. The cave knows how rare a dragon is "supposed" to be, so if the dragon is "rare" it will yield only a little gold, but still significantly more than just picking the egg up. Perhaps 20 gold for a rare egg hatched. "Uncommon" eggs would yield 30 gold, and "commons" 50.

 

This is assuming the cave sorts breeds neatly into rare, uncommon, and common. I actually have no idea how the internal workings of the cave decide how difficult eggs are to get. I would suggest that whatever mechanics the site uses to determine breeding success, it uses to reward hatchings. That is, an egg that is more likely to be successfully bred also yields more gold upon hatching.

 

Lore justification: Young dragons are ready to hatch early on, and choose to stay in their eggs, so they are aware of your presence while still in the egg stage. When the dragon finally emerges, it begins to stockpile valuables and gives some to you as a thank-you for taking care of it while it was in the egg.

 

Raising a hatchling to adulthood will yield a reward as well, with the same lore justification. These rewards will be significantly larger: approx. 80 gold for a rare, 100 for an uncommon, 150 for a common. Depending on how frozen hatchlings interact with the ratios, freezing a hatchling will yield the same or a smaller reward. In-universe, freezing is not a bad thing and doesn't harm the hatchling at all, so they should bear no ill will toward people who freeze them.

 

Fluff-Side

Giving a dragon a name or a description is a sign of loyalty and friendship between you and the dragon. Naming a dragon gets you ~10 gold. Getting a description approved gets you ~40 gold. This represents the dragon's returned friendship to you (giving you some of its wealth).

 

New Things

Any in-cave action that suggests a relationship of friendship between you and a dragon should give a gold reward, which symbolizes the dragon's returned loyalty to you. If in-game currency is implemented, new features should follow this standard.

 

Things that should not give you gold (imo):

• just showing up and not doing anything
• auto-refreshing a page for hours(/days/-ever)
• breeding (just b/c we don't need to encourage it)
• anything that harms a dragon or shows a lack of friendship (killing, releasing, etc)

Uses

Paying Players

I'd like to keep discussion in this thread to how currency can be used to enhance current features, rather than to suggest new ones. I imagine the primary use for currency will be to pay other players. For what? That's up to you.

 

I mostly see currency supplementing the trade market. A promise of payment could sweeten or completely replace a trade deal, eliminating the need for IOUs and the double-coincidence of want required for a successful trade. Perhaps Teleport could be given a third option that is "Sell," where you name a price in gold pieces for your egg, and anyone who accepts the Teleport will automatically be charged that amount (if they have it - otherwise the Teleport does not go through and remains open for someone else to take).

 

Users could therefore earn gold by selling their eggs and hatchlings on a regular basis, if they have anything people are buying. Currency-based egg transfers, rather than barter-based ones, would be much more readily accepted, since although not everybody will be willing to buy your egg for your price, everyone will at least have access to the thing you want.

 

This will definitely significantly affect the trade market, but it shouldn't affect the "value" of an egg. Eggs will still be worth whatever they're worth to you.

 

There's other reasons why you could pay players. Maybe something related to the forums, somehow? Anyone remember the "random acts of kindness" thread? Maybe instead of just a signature badge, you could get some gold for that, too. Users could also have like, raffle pots, where everyone pays one person 5 gold, they generate a random winner, and that winner gets all the gold that got paid.

 

Could this be used for nefarious purposes? Sure, but not any more nefarious than you could already do with real money...

 

Escaping Cooldowns

Perhaps a dragon could be persuaded to use a BSA before its cooldown is finished? Or attempt to breed again, if the previous match resulted in no eggs?

 

I imagine the scenario will play out like this:

You have a Red dragon - you use Incubate. Incubate has a two-week cooldown, right? Immediately upon using Incubate the Red dragon gains a counter, set at 0, saying "how many times that guy has asked me to use Incubate before I'm ready." If the cooldown is allowed to run out on its own, the counter is removed and the action becomes available again.

 

However, before the cooldown runs out, you can go to the dragon and offer him some gold in exchange for Incubating another egg before he's ready. The first time it'll cost maybe 10 gold. The dragon agrees and his counter goes up to 1. The cooldown resets - now you will have to wait another full two weeks before you get free Incubates again.

 

So if you want to do it again before the cooldown runs out, he will charge you more. Maybe 30 gold this time, and his counter will go up to 2. As the counter increases, the more he will charge you. If the cooldown is allowed to fully run out, the counter will disappear, and the next time you use Incubate it will be reset to 0.

Edited April 2, 2016 by ~!~

[Pokemonfan13]

Site currency is a devilish thing to keep stable. For the most part it inflates. Because of that, it seems unlikely that it would be viable for user trading, since nobody is going to want to trade a CB gold for "gold" if that "gold" isn't going to be able to buy a CB gold a few months down the road.

 

Ideally there would have to be something really attractive and really costly that people can purchase with their "gold", but the only thing I can think of is a special dragon, and then it's not that much different than Thu's store, just with gold swapping and fewer breeds to buy.

 

I'm going to let the other people scream about no trade-able currency. xP

Edited April 1, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[AGYK]

Interesting idea. I'm not going to give a yes or no opinion until I see how things play out, mostly because gut says no but the logical portion of me likes the arguments you present about trading. I do have a few thoughts for you, though.

 

Maybe have little piles of 5-10 gold show up like the Easter eggs, or Halloweeen treats?  This way you can't make an auto-refresher do the work for you.

Non-JS player chiming in - without JS enabled, you can't pick up Halloween treats or Christmas eggs. Turning it on and off is mildly annoying and leaving it on is very annoying.

 

Biomes

As eggs sit in the biomes, they slowly accumulate wealth.  Every second, they have a 50% chance of gaining 1 gold piece.  So a rare egg, or a new release, or anything that will otherwise get snatched up really quickly, will not come with any gold.  However, eggs that are in lower demand will sit in the cave and accumulate gold until someone takes them.  Users will not know how much gold an egg has until they grab it.

Awesome idea to counter blockers. You essentially lock players into a prisoner's dilemma with only one "winner", which should keep things moving pretty quickly.

 

Abandoned Page

Eggs (and hatchlings) accumulate gold in the AP as well, at a slower rate (because they are also losing time here).  An AP egg starts with 0 gold and gains 1-0 every 5 seconds.  If it is picked up and abandoned a second time, it will start with 5 gold and gain gold at the same rate.  Each time it is picked up and abandoned again (no matter how much time passed in between) it will start with 5 more gold and gain gold at the same 5-second rate.  (Users cannot abuse this to get a lot of gold because once you abandon an egg, you can't pick it up again.)

One word: holidays. Your suggestion would be disastrous here - the backlog of commons stuck behind the holidays would have obscene amounts of gold attached to them by the time they show, and messy holidays would shell out ridiculous amounts of total gold from being re-abandoned and re-caught every 30s. I've seen holidays bounce from AP to scroll to AP to scroll for upwards of 10-15m before (and usually I just get tired of it and learn which codes to avoid, rather than continuing to track them.)

 

Also, just a tiny thing:  I wouldn't cry if there was an option to buy in-game currency with real money.  If any of you play Neko Atsume, I think their pay-for-fish setup is very sensible, and it's convinced me that it's possible to have pay-for-gold-type features that are balanced nicely.  I can accumulate fish at a fast enough rate that I never feel pressured to pay for them, but slow enough that I'm often tempted.  Prices are also pretty low.  Affordability is relative, but they don't sell packages of fish for anything more than I'd expect a kid to afford with his allowance.

Really suggest dropping this part of the suggestion, as people are going to fixate on it and shout you into oblivion. Not a fan of paid features myself, either.

 

I mostly see currency supplementing the trade market.  A promise of payment could sweeten or completely replace a trade deal, eliminating the need for IOUs and the double-coincidence of want required for a successful trade.  Perhaps Teleport could be given a third option that is "Sell," where you name a price in gold pieces for your egg, and anyone who accepts the Teleport will automatically be charged that amount (if they have it - otherwise the Teleport does not go through and remains open for someone else to take).

This is why I'm seriously considering this suggestion. As long as trades as we know them aren't affected - in other words, I can still trade my egg for your egg - I think this could be really neat. Might give me some incentive to breed the random junk I can never get trades for but know somebody has to want.

[~!~]

I hear your concerns, but, isn't inflation a result of greedy sites trying to get people to use the "pay for gold" options and bring in revenue? Like, when I think of sites with terrible economies, Neopets and Gaia come to mind. (I've never actually used either, I just know the stories.) The way I see it, DC is significantly smaller, and TJ has said he's not interested in generating site revenue by pressuring users into buying things.

 

I think tying gold generation directly to the means of production of dragons (the only thing there currently is to buy) would be a way to mitigate inflation, as well. (As far as I know, most other sites generate gold via mini-games.)

 

And, if gold doesn't turn out to be viable for trading, people will just go back to barter trading like we have now, right?

 

EDIT:

One word: holidays. Your suggestion would be disastrous here - the backlog of commons stuck behind the holidays would have obscene amounts of gold attached to them by the time they show, and messy holidays would shell out ridiculous amounts of total gold from being re-abandoned and re-caught every 30s. I've seen holidays bounce from AP to scroll to AP to scroll for upwards of 10-15m before (and usually I just get tired of it and learn which codes to avoid, rather than continuing to track them.)

Okay, okay, the gold timer would only be on while the egg is actually showing and available to be adopted. Eggs that sit behind the first page won't accumulate gold. Also: if messy-lineage holidays are that undesirable, maybe they ought to shell out ridiculous amounts of gold. The gold is meant to get people to pick up the eggs, after all.

 

Also: the entire AP is terrible and needs to be fixed, esp. during holidays, but that's beside the point.

 

Really suggest dropping this part of the suggestion, as people are going to fixate on it and shout you into oblivion. Not a fan of paid features myself, either.

That isn't actually a part of the suggestion. I understand DC has a long-standing tradition of no paid features and I wouldn't want to upset that.

 

EDIT: fixed my double-post

Edited April 1, 2016 by ~!~

[Pokemonfan13]

Inflation comes from more currency coming into the economy than is leaving it. If you can easily make, say 100 "gold" a day, you should be spending on average 100 "gold" a day on things that put the gold back into the site. That's one reason I said there would have to be something big and special for people to save up for. Big chunks of currency going back into the site. Sites like Gaia are hurt by their "give us cash we give you site currency" policies, but they're not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is currency being too easy to get and not having enough things to spend it on that get rid of the currency again.

 

But if it isn't viable for trading, what's the point of this suggestion? There would be this whole infrastructure that TJ codes in to allow for swapping of gold for eggs, and if the gold ends up being too unstable for that to be viable that's TJ's time wasted that he could have used to implement a different feature.

 

 

I'm also putting my edit from my previous post down here

 

I do NOT like the idea of it taking currency to abandon an egg (especially if it's not going back into the site, but instead sitting with the egg). Number 1, it would at least reduce people taking CB eggs for the sake of getting the biomes moving because it would cost more than 5 hours of an egg slot, it would cost currency too. Number 2, it would shut down people breeding nice things for the AP hunters. Number 3, it would seriously hurt lineage builders, which is one of the main fun things to do once you've been here for a long time. It would also cause rares from common breeds to cost even more, since there would be a lot of abandoned fails before the success, with each abandoned fail costing "gold".

[AGYK]

Also: if messy-lineage holidays are that undesirable, maybe they ought to shell out ridiculous amounts of gold.  The gold is meant to get people to pick up the eggs, after all.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of "pick up the messy egg, get 5g, abandon the egg, someone else picks it up and gets 5g, someone else abandons it, pick up the messy egg, get 5g..." Did I misread what you were suggesting there?

[Obscure_Trash]

Escaping Cooldowns

Perhaps a dragon could be persuaded to use a BSA before its cooldown is finished? Or attempt to breed again, if the previous match resulted in no eggs?

 

Or abandoning a new cb egg before 5 hours is up?

 

Maybe you could also get rid of dead eggs early (egg slot and/or the sprite, I'm cool with both)?

 

What about buying one more temporary egg slot (you could only buy one at a time and once just one egg hatched, you'd have to wait for another egg to hatch or buy another extra slot to be able to grab again)?

 

Possibly buy a chance for a multiclutch?

 

Buy "incubating" a hatchie (probably won't happen since we don't have it now, but worth a shot, lol)?

 

Just throwing some ideas out. o.o

 

~

 

Tbh, I probably never would have supported this if people weren't finding the cave so stagnant. But if it would help eggs move, sure, I'll give it a try.

[Pokemonfan13]

Also: the entire AP is terrible and needs to be fixed, esp. during holidays, but that's beside the point.

Honestly, I don't see how the AP is all that broken. There's a problem during holidays with regular eggs getting hidden behind the holiday ones (and dying? I don't know if TJ does something to stop that), but that would be best solved by giving users access to the regular eggs. I'm actually not sure what your suggestion would even DO for the AP, other than convincing people to never abandon anything.

 

As long as things aren't dying in the AP, I don't see a problem. And given that they have to reach the "instant hatchling" stage before they die, that's never going to happen unless everyone who could possibly want an AP egg is hatchling locked because of hunting the AP to death, and we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[~!~]

Inflation comes from more currency coming into the economy than is leaving it. If you can easily make, say 100 "gold" a day, you should be spending on average 100 "gold" a day on things that put the gold back into the site. That's one reason I said there would have to be something big and special for people to save up for. Big chunks of currency going back into the site. Sites like Gaia are hurt by their "give us cash we give you site currency" policies, but they're not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is currency being too easy to get and not having enough things to spend it on that get rid of the currency again.

So, in order for this to work, there have to be significant gold sinks to balance out all the free gold people get just from playing. (Thuban's suggestion doesn't have this problem, then, because it's actually centered around gold sinks?) That makes a lot of sense.

 

However, if the suggestion is going to stay with current in-game features, that means I'm going to have to suggest charging gold to do things you normally do, or start handing out mad bonuses for people to buy with gold.

 

How about buying extra egg slots? Maybe... given the prices I've listed so far... 5000 gold for an egg slot? And you get it permanently? Or maybe 1000 for a temporary egg slot that goes away as soon as the egg hatches or leaves your scroll? Fluff side: You're paying your adult dragons to help you take care of it. The high cost is b/c they don't get to keep the baby - they're just babysitting it for you.

 

Thuban's thread is likely generating a lot of nice things other than eggs that you could pay gold for, and I don't want to cause too much overlap w/ that thread.

 

Also, on abandoning: The other "pay gold to abandon" mechanic introduced (in the Cave Blockers thread I think) was, if you get bonus gold when you pick up an egg, you have to pay that amount when you get rid of it (abandon, bite, kill, etc.) I don't love that because it stops encouraging players to take blockers out of the biomes just to get them moving, (although I would argue that players shouldn't have to do that). However, it eliminates AGYK's issue and it doesn't discourage people from abandoning bred eggs. It also acts as a gold sink.

[Pokemonfan13]

Thu's store also doesn't have that problem because it isn't actually an economy. One of the big things is that the currency stays on the account that got it from the site. No currency changing hands, no inflation. About the only problem would be if the prices in the store weren't properly balanced to the availability of the currency, the store would be a bit too attractive a way to get eggs and would hurt cave hunting and user trading.

 

 

I agree that people shouldn't have to take eggs from the biomes that they don't want just to get them moving, but in the meantime we shouldn't have anything that would discourage people doing that either, since it is rather necessary to the game as it stands. Personally, I don't think abandoning should cost anything, unless it's giving back "gold" you got for taking it in the first place.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[AGYK]

As long as things aren't dying in the AP, I don't see a problem.  And given that they have to reach the "instant hatchling" stage before they die, that's never going to happen unless everyone who could possibly want an AP egg is hatchling locked because of hunting the AP to death, and we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

A ton of things died behind the holiday wall last Halloween or Christmas (I don't honestly remember which). Some of us were stupid enough to breed the day before the event started (I plead guilty) and watched our breedings die. They never even showed. They couldn't, there was a gigantic holiday wall for the full event.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting "instant hatchling" stage from though? Even 0d 0h eggs still need views to hatch. Depends on the dragon, but in my experience it takes at least ~60 UV with maxed V to hatch something that low on time.

 

Also, on abandoning:  The other "pay gold to abandon" mechanic introduced (in the Cave Blockers thread I think) was, if you get bonus gold when you pick up an egg, you have to pay that amount when you get rid of it (abandon, bite, kill, etc.)  I don't love that because it stops encouraging players to take blockers out of the biomes just to get them moving, (although I would argue that players shouldn't have to do that).  However, it eliminates AGYK's issue and it doesn't discourage people from abandoning bred eggs.  It also acts as a gold sink.

Works for me.

[Pokemonfan13]

They're not "instant", but they're still about the closest thing to it. A little time in ERs and you've got a hatchling.

 

The holiday problem is a whole different kettle of fish, and is probably best solved by letting people who aren't enamored with collecting bred holidays have access to the non-holiday backlog. My point is that the AP functioning under non-holiday conditions does not appear broken to me. Holiday conditions need their own specialized solutions.

[blockEdragon]

ahh good someone made this, I thought I would have to, and i hate dealing with these threads!

obvious support is obvious

 

 

the reasons this could be immensely helpful is:

1. users who cant hunt rares themselves, could just grab commons

and raise them for money, with enough gold they could get whatever they need, kinda like community service in exchange for an object of desire...or a job

 

2. the reason real currency was invented

ok heres is the scene:

you have a ton of iron equal value to a horse, but the only horse breeder dose not want any iron, whelp now your not getting a horse are you?

 

then MONEY appeared and solved this issue

and now you can offer him currency instead and sell your iron to someone who wants it for even more currency

 

are you getting what i'm saying? if you make a neglected but no one has what you want you either have to settle or keep it and go empty handed

but if currency was around you could sell the neglected and buy what you want at a later date, or save up for something even better!

 

-------

 

also about rares, rares already have enough incentive so why not have the rarest and most overpopulated breeds give NO currency to promote the raising of other breeds and let their ratios even out

you sitll could raise a rare but its a rare so you probably don't need any more incentive

 

--------

(I think) rarities are decided by how underpopulated they are for the ratios and how rare they are originally supposed to be, its pretty much how we all think it works so i think the mechanics of how much gold should go like this:

 

the more common it is the bigger the rewards

 

the more underpopulated it is then it gives even BIGGER rewards in proportion to how underpopulated it is (then everyone grabs them and it evens out)

 

the rarer it is the less it gives

 

the more overpopulated it is the less it gives, raising rares would be for the rare rather then the money anyway and people breed rares too much already

 

and since ratios are unique the rewards would be to, since it would be decided by a program rather then a person and in proportion to its ratios

 

bred eggs should give a reward to but caveborns should give more since biome blocking is insufferable at times

however commons are commons no matter what so same rules apply but just less of a reward because you aren't moving the cave

Edited April 1, 2016 by blockEdragon

[blockEdragon]

Site currency is a devilish thing to keep stable.  For the most part it inflates.  Because of that, it seems unlikely that it would be viable for user trading, since nobody is going to want to trade a CB gold for "gold" if that "gold" isn't going to be able to buy a CB gold a few months down the road.

 

Ideally there would have to be something really attractive and really costly that people can purchase with their "gold", but the only thing I can think of is a special dragon, and then it's not that much different than Thu's store, just with gold swapping and fewer breeds to buy.

 

I'm going to let the other people scream about no trade-able currency. xP

ok i have an idea for a money sink

how about an automated DC lotto?

the prizes could be of differing rarities and be displayed on the entry page to entice people into buying more tickets

 

 

 

prizes maybe could include:

 

a new breed of prize dragon that can be bred but CBs only gotten through winning the lotto or buying from a lotto winner

 

new unbreedable dragons only able to be acquired through the lotto or buying/trading it off a user who won said lotto

 

prize dragons(maybe? keep the word *lottery* in mind people)

 

cb golds

cb silvers

cb rares in general

 

cb hybrids

cb alt hatchies

 

CB hatchies

 

extra egg slots only good for one egg (as in get an 8th egg until said egg is abandoned or grows up)

 

varied amounts of gold from meager to MASSIVE

 

CB holidays from past years (possibly only/better odds during or the week after breeding season?)

 

2nd gen thuweds? (I know TJ has breeding limets but it could generate them)

 

CB common- uncommon hatchlings? (for common prizes)

random CB adults???

 

 

 

 

ya know things anyone would say WOOOA I have a chance for that?! and be compelled to buy more/better entries?

 

of course some prizes would be incredibly rare while others would be common enough to keep you going

i think the holidays would be a guaranteed money sink thing since so many would want a chance at CB holidays from past years

Edited April 1, 2016 by blockEdragon

[angelicdragonpuppy]

There would really have to be some guaranteed return for gold to make the system work, I think. As was mentioned before I wouldn't want to trade a rare dragon for gold unless I knew that gold would be worth roughly the same as that dragon further down the line, which a shopless system doesn't guarantee. Having perks like reducing cooldown would help... but at that point it might as well be a potion you can buy in a shop that does that. So overall I'd still support a store option over this.

 

I DO like the idea of attaching gold / currency to long sitting eggs, though. Perhaps to counter AGYK's fears of eggs stuck behind holidays becoming super rich, it would only accumulate per second that it's actually visible to be grabbed? Yes, messy holidays would still accumulate a lot of gold, but that's probably a good thing since they're just as undesirable as unwanted cave blockers, if not even more so.

[cyradis4]

There would really have to be some guaranteed return for gold to make the system work, I think. As was mentioned before I wouldn't want to trade a rare dragon for gold unless I knew that gold would be worth roughly the same as that dragon further down the line, which a shopless system doesn't guarantee. Having perks like reducing cooldown would help... but at that point it might as well be a potion you can buy in a shop that does that. So overall I'd still support a store option over this.

 

I DO like the idea of attaching gold / currency to long sitting eggs, though. Perhaps to counter AGYK's fears of eggs stuck behind holidays becoming super rich, it would only accumulate per second that it's actually visible to be grabbed? Yes, messy holidays would still accumulate a lot of gold, but that's probably a good thing since they're just as undesirable as unwanted cave blockers, if not even more so.

Attach the gold to CB eggs in the Biomes only. That gives incentive to pick up the dastardly blockers that aren't moving. The AP has no such problem, except during the Holidays.

 

While I love the idea of an in-game currency... without some sort of Store or other well thought out, desirable sinks attached to it, it won't work. And the store will have to have *teeth*, and give something people really, really want, at all price ranges.

 

So.... What sort of sinks do you suggest? The Sinks, after all, are the truly critical part of regulating any in-game economy.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[schenanigans]

I, personally, strongly dislike the idea of currency. The only reason I am fine with the suggestion in Thuban's store idea thread is because, as I understand it, the currency is gained passively by playing the game as one normally would - I can go about my day-to-day activities on-site and gain currency, which will eventually amount to something I care about. It may be that elusive CB Rare I've always wanted. IIRC this prize of mine would not be tradeable and thus, not effect the trade market. It is PURELY a reward for my continuous time spent in the site and continuity to play the game.

 

Clicks

Giving clicks to eggs or hatchlings should yield gold, only when the click is actually counted toward the dragons "clicks."  (Anybody else remember how this site used to work before fansites were a thing?)

No thank you. There's a lot of players on DC that don't have time to sit in a hatchery and click egg after egg, hatchling after hatchling; they just allow an autoviewer to run in the background as they go about their lives. I understand how DC used to run, but the site has evolved and (again, opinion) I feel that it is for the better.

 

Biomes

As eggs sit in the biomes, they slowly accumulate wealth. Every second, they have a 50% chance of gaining 1 gold piece. So a rare egg, or a new release, or anything that will otherwise get snatched up really quickly, will not come with any gold. However, eggs that are in lower demand will sit in the cave and accumulate gold until someone takes them. Users will not know how much gold an egg has until they grab it.

 

Abandoned Page

Eggs (and hatchlings) accumulate gold in the AP as well, at a slower rate (because they are also losing time here). An AP egg starts with 0 gold and gains 1-0 every 5 seconds. If it is picked up and abandoned a second time, it will start with 5 gold and gain gold at the same rate. Each time it is picked up and abandoned again (no matter how much time passed in between) it will start with 5 more gold and gain gold at the same 5-second rate. (Users cannot abuse this to get a lot of gold because once you abandon an egg, you can't pick it up again.)

Eh, I'm fine with these, considering the "cap" that players would encounter would be becoming egg or hatchling locked, and it helps get cave blockers out of the way. However, as AGYK said, the AP would be pretty awful during the Holidays, and with how I feel about the below suggestion the "cap" would be moot, anyway (grab, abandon, and repeat).

 

Alternate Idea: Instead of a 5-hour wait to abandon an egg from the cave, ALL eggs now cost gold to abandon. Perhaps a flat rate of 10 gold to abandon any egg, no matter how you got it? Perhaps lift the restriction if the egg has less than 3 days left to live, b/c at that point you're probably doing it for the egg's own good. The 10 gold follows the egg, and is picked up by whoever grabs it from the AP.

Absolutely not. Mass breeding would become no more; it now costs to breed eggs? Noooopppee. Many, many people breed intentionally to the AP for people to find; I thoroughly enjoy hunting the AP for eggs, I hunt there more than I do in the Biomes. We could say good-bye to threads like this thank you thread or this ratio-raffle thread. Overall, I feel like this suggestion is, unfortunately, nothing but a negative impact to the state of the cave.

 

Things that should not give you gold (imo):

breeding (just b/c we don't need to encourage it)

(Referencing bolded part) Why? What is the point of DC? So, just catch eggs? Don't breed for lineages anymore? JUST collect sprites? This is what the game used to be about. It is not anymore for a lot of people - people have projects, they build lineages, they work together to create beautiful things and share this with other people, sometimes via the AP. Not saying that gold should be rewarded for breeding, I just don't understand why it needs to not be encouraged.

 

Uses

Paying Players

No thank you. Opinion - if it ever comes to this, I would most likely stop playing, and I'm sure there may be others (maybe a minority) that would feel the same. I play DC and absolutely enjoy the fact that I don't have to sit here and collect a currency because I have to to feel like I am staying in the game, especially not when it comes to trading. Many people and families will be affected by this if computer use is limited and everyone is fighting to spend as much time as possible to get what they need. (This sounds really dramatic, but I see it happening...)

 

@AGYK

This is why I'm seriously considering this suggestion. As long as trades as we know them aren't affected - in other words, I can still trade my egg for your egg - I think this could be really neat. Might give me some incentive to breed the random junk I can never get trades for but know somebody has to want.

The problem with this is, if people are going to be trying to save up currency or demand for the currency is higher than it is for eggs (which will probably be the case most of the time), then people will be posting trades with "Gold only, no egg/hatchling offers please." With incentives such as Sock had or the OP suggested with escaping cooldowns, or even a larger gold sink, more and more people will find egg trades less desirable and would prefer the gold. Now, that 2G Prize is only going for gold - and only the people with the time and trading power to trade for more gold are going to be able to offer on that Prize. Which is entirely their prerogative - but I still feel like this would be a vicious cycle of "haves" and "have-nots".

 

 

Disclaimer: Please, please please don't take anything I say as aggressive - I promise I'm not trying to come across that way Currency just frightens me and has pushed me from other game sites such as this in the past. I feel that what isn't broken shouldn't be fixed - I thoroughly agree that cave blockers are a problem, but if this is the suggestion to fix that, I'd rather there be another remedy. Also - I'm quite tired, forcing myself to stay up to switch my schedule (from nights to days) so it is more than likely that I misinterpreted something and/or am overreacting. Feel free to tell me why I need to take a chill pill and go cuddle my eggs in the corner.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Areous

[cyradis4]

The problem with this is, if people are going to be trying to save up currency or demand for the currency is higher than it is for eggs (which will probably be the case most of the time), then people will be posting trades with "Gold only, no egg/hatchling offers please." With incentives such as Sock had or the OP suggested with escaping cooldowns, or even a larger gold sink, more and more people will find egg trades less desirable and would prefer the gold. Now, that 2G Prize is only going for gold - and only the people with the time and trading power to trade for more gold are going to be able to offer on that Prize. Which is entirely their prerogative - but I still feel like this would be a vicious cycle of "haves" and "have-nots".

Unless you own a CB Prize, CB Spriter Alt, or can easily catch CB metals, this already *happens*

 

Go through trades right now, and you'll see that the best trades often have "2nd gen Prize / Spriter alt only"... And your average user does NOT have a CB Prize or Spriter Alt. So what is that person to do? They have no way to get that trade. But if the other user says "Gold Only".... all of a sudden, Average Joe player can *save up* and get that coveted rare that before, they hadn't a dream of ever getting.

 

Currency would have the opposite affect of what you fear. Assuming it was balanced, it would ease the difference between "haves" and "have nots". It would also cover the cap currently created by "no ious".

 

For example, I love CB common hatchies, but I hate doing IOUs... and I don't need / want much else that others think is "valuable". Now, if I want a large number of CB hatchies in trade for something of mine, I either limit the number to four (what a teleport can handle) or take the risk of an IOU. So if someone wants to trade me 20 hatchies for this 3rd gen Prize, I couldn't... without an IOU. But if there was Gold in the game, I'd trade the super valuable egg I have for gold... then trade that gold to a dozen other players for the CB commons I actually wanted.

 

Then that user who raised those 20 hatchies for my gold then goes and trades that gold they got from me to someone who has say.... a 2rd gen Spriter Alt they really wanted. Without the Gold, they could not have gotten that 2nd gen Spriter Alt, because the trade only wanted a 2nd gen Prize... which they didn't have. But thanks to the gold I traded them for the common hatchies, they had the gold to offer on the Spriter Alt baby.

 

Thereby making the unattainable... attainable.

 

 

That is why I strongly support a well-balanced currency. It provides a flexibility and access into trading that just can't be matched with our current egg / hatchling currency. Will some trades suffer? Yes. But far, far, far more would be able to be done. Because right now, many trades just aren't happening... because those that see the trade... don't have what the trader wants. Or they do, but don't want what the trader has. Currency bridges those gaps.

 

But that still doesn't solve the sink problem.... The example I gave above depends on balance.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[schenanigans]

Thank you for replying Cyradis and pointing all that out - I didn't look at it that way entirely ^^

 

The trade market at the moment isn't ideal, the "haves" and "have-nots" issue I mentioned does exist, but to a certain extent it seems to be not as bad as it has been in the past with a lot of the Prizes (for example). There are plenty of people who are willing to trade 2G Prizes/Spriter's Alts or CB Rares for pretty lineages, tons of CB Hatchlings, etc. - things that are obtainable by the average joe.

 

The problem I have with currency, is that (as with a lot of trades), "best offer wins." So, the average joe could be saving up a lot, and could now have a chance at that Prize or Spriter's Alt or the rare they wanted, but someone else who has yet more gold than them - someone with more time, better trading/catching capabilities, etc. - still takes home the... gold (No pun intended haha)

 

I can see that it would even the playing field a bit more though, as now that Person A (average joe) missed out on that trade they wanted because Person B offered a ton of gold, Person A is in a better position to trade for the next shiny they'd like.

 

Either way, if a Spriter or someone with a 2G Spriter's Alt wants a 2G Prize instead of Gold, then that problem still persists - it's exclusive to a specific demographic that won the raffle. The only "problem children" of the trading market tend to be 2G Hollies, 2G Prizes, and 2G Spriter's Alts, of which the Store can offer up alternatives or remedies to the first two "problem children." In my experience, I personally feel that 2G Spriter's Alts are honestly not a huge problem in the trading market. However, I don't personally collect or actively trade for Hollies or Prizes, so aside from a few situations I've only witnessed the value of the Hollies & Prizes.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Areous

[Thuban]

However, a lot of that discussion is predicated on the fact that money will be used to obtain dragons, which this thread is not going to assume.

 

 

Just a quick note: the currency there isnt limited to JUST dragons. There are items proposed as well. And other options that havent been fleshed out enough to make it to the first post. My thread is in the process of going through an overhaul (to make it crystal clear how exactly things work). Those items can do things like provide a spare egg slot until the dragon grows up, they will have BSA like qualities that havent been released for whatever reason (Fertility to increase chance of specific dragon breed, Multi Clutch, Hatchy Incubate, basically useful BSA ideas that have no dragons attached or havent been released for whatever reason). Just wanted to clarify that.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clicks:

If there was an onsite, built in hatchery, I could see this being a thing, easily. However, as there isnt one, it relies on either clicking all your friends things, or going to the hatcheries... which are not official parts of this game. They are sites controlled by outside people, often run on their money alone, and the extra traffic can be a rather big headache. How do you propose we do this in a more official manner without being a drain on their resources? What about those players who have a strong dislike of their dragons receiving clicks? It can be a cramp on their playstyle, if people are suddenly clicking everything, where before just viewing was enough. (I do miss the days of hatching eggs on livejournal..but I quit Unicreatures and click to grow sites because I dont have time or the memory on this computer to sit and mindlessly click all day).

 

Biomes

As eggs sit in the biomes, they slowly accumulate wealth. Every second, they have a 50% chance of gaining 1 gold piece. So a rare egg, or a new release, or anything that will otherwise get snatched up really quickly, will not come with any gold. However, eggs that are in lower demand will sit in the cave and accumulate gold until someone takes them. Users will not know how much gold an egg has until they grab it.

 

How exactly do these eggs hold on to the gold they are earning? I doubt the gold spawns inside of the eggs, and just having them sitting in piles outside of the eggs... whats to stop the random egg collector or misfit pygmy from running up and swiping the gold, without taking the egg?

 

 

AP:

Ehhhh... I feel like the fact that those eggs in the AP have so much longer to earn gold before they are even seen to be grabbable.. especially when it comes to holidays and such, takes attention away from hunting the cave. Also pretty not ok with paying to abandon. Who are we paying, and why are they charging us to do a thing that has always been free?

 

Description rewards:

No thanks. There arent enough mods who enjoy approving descriptions. Its not fair to put pressure on the only ones who do it to have to do more than they already do, when they are already so far behind. Don't put the burden of earning gold for you guys on a backlogged system that not all the mods like helping with. If the system ever gets revamped to be less reliant on just a few people doing that job.. then it could be alright.

 

Using gold to exploit existing limits:

No... just.. no. BSAs are set to a specific time frame for a specific reason (whatever that reason is). I've always assumed it has something to do with them being physically exhausting, or needing time in between casting to recharge whatever Mana may have been involved. Paying them to force them to give you a service before they are ready to.. seems sketchy.

"I'm going to keep harassing you until I get what I want. Here, I'll offer some gold for the service, but I will completely disregard your interest in actually performing this task." If you need some perspective on why this is a bit squicky.. lets pretend you wanted to pay your dragons to breed sooner. You keep pestering them and pestering them.. and then offer them gold. Can you see how that might get a bit sketchy, pretty quickly (especially when you consider its the females that are dropping the eggs.. not the males..) It does veer into prostitution and squicky territory.

 

 

Now for the big question:

One of the things people had the most issue with in my thread was the sheer idea of currency for dragons. You even reference that yourself at the top of your post. How is trading our dragons for gold from other users any different than trading the gold to a trader (shop) for dragons?

 

No matter how you look at it, between my thread and yours, no matter what we call the things being traded between players or (in my case the traders) to get the dragons, it is still currency. Changing the name doesnt matter. The dragons themselves ARE currency. The mana shards/points on my thread, ARE currency. Your gold IS currency. Currency is anything that can be traded towards a good or service that you need, that the other person has. In this case, we are after dragons, and anything that can be traded towards that goal, IS currency.

 

 

 

Please dont take this post as attacking what you are trying to do. These are a lot of the same issues I had run into with my own thread with a few twists specific to yours.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not wild about currency as such. But Thuban's store idea works better than this kind of vague random arrangement. You earn points (=currency) by playing; there are caps on how much you CAN earn, and you spend it in the store; the points CANNOT be traded or used to trade.

 

I have come around to supporting the store idea, in fact. There are aspects of it I'm not wild about, but in general I can see how it would work well. And crucially - it doesn't need a sink.

[Obscure_Trash]

No thank you. There's a lot of players on DC that don't have time to sit in a hatchery and click egg after egg, hatchling after hatchling; they just allow an autoviewer to run in the background as they go about their lives. I understand how DC used to run, but the site has evolved and (again, opinion) I feel that it is for the better.

I'm totally with you on abandoning not being a buyable action for all eggs. But just because clicking could give gold doesn't mean you would have to click.

 

Way back when, we were actually a lot more involved in clicking. I regularly got 200 - 300 clicks on my dragons. At some point, people started to realize clicks weren't absolutely necessary and started clicking less. I, and many others, would be very frustrated when we started losing clicks. We'd be there on gaia lecturing each other on giving clicks, lol. =p And that was just due to a slight misunderstanding in how to raise dragons. Nowadays, I just get around 2 - 7 clicks. My eggs get raised the same whether I'm getting 250 clicks or 5. While I'm glad I can use fansites with less time involved than I did with gaia, I really enjoyed the greater interaction I got by using gaia and actively clicking. How we play the game can evolve even if basis of how the game works still stays the same. But just because some of us would click more for currency doesn't mean you'd have to.

 

With multiple ways to earn currency, I don't see a problem for giving out currency when people give a little more to dragons by clicking them.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Since I'm also a player on MagiStream.. which already has a store/currency system.. I'm all for adding the same here. 110% support.

 

What I don't want to see is HUGE amounts of gold floating around without something to spend it on. I also do not want store specfic eggs for sale.. only eggs that are already in game, just not always available. I.E. Prize eggs, past Holidays and/or cb ALTs and not Donation only eggs.

 

But what I really, really, REALLY DO NOT want to see, is the ability to purchase ingame currency for real money. That is a bit NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! Real money is the reason the economy on MagiStream is so messed up. If ingame currency is only available due to actual playing, then I think it wouldn't be so easy to exploit.

 

I like the idea of cb eggs in the biomes coming with gold.. but not cb AP eggs, since someone already received gold for grabbing those eggs from the biomes. Giving gold again from the AP would be double-dipping. I'm neutral on bred AP eggs coming with gold.

 

I like the idea of setting up Teleport links with a price attached, but I think there should be a limit on how high that price could be. Allowing players to set their own prices for bred eggs would lead to economic inflation in short order. Which is where having a Store comes in.. allowing players to buy caveborns for a set price, rather than 2nd gens at outrageous player set prices.

 

So while I like the idea of ingame currency, I'd only want it if there were also an ingame store to spend it in. On average, people are greedy, so the less control the players have over prices the better. That's what causes inflation in these games more than anything else.. human greed.

[Fuzzbucket]

Since I'm also a player on MagiStream.. which already has a store/currency system.. I'm all for adding the same here. 110% support.

 

But what I really, really, REALLY DO NOT want to see, is the ability to purchase ingame currency for real money. That is a bit NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! Real money is the reason the economy on MagiStream is so messed up. If ingame currency is only available due to actual playing, then I think it wouldn't be so easy to exploit.

 

I like the idea of cb eggs in the biomes coming with gold.. but not cb AP eggs, since someone already received gold for grabbing those eggs from the biomes. Giving gold again from the AP would be double-dipping. I'm neutral on bred AP eggs coming with gold.

 

I like the idea of setting up Teleport links with a price attached, but I think there should be a limit on how high that price could be. Allowing players to set their own prices for bred eggs would lead to economic inflation in short order. Which is where having a Store comes in.. allowing players to buy caveborns for a set price, rather than 2nd gens at outrageous player set prices.

 

So while I like the idea of ingame currency, I'd only want it if there were also an ingame store to spend it in. On average, people are greedy, so the less control the players have over prices the better. That's what causes inflation in these games more than anything else.. human greed.

ALL this. (OMG I have agreed with Cinn twice in as many days...)

 

No, wait - not all - not the teleport links bit The greed cited in the last paragraph is real - and is what kills that idea for me. Store prices set by the GAME, not by individuals - OK. Prices set by players - no. We have that in the trade threads; we do NOT need to make it worse by tying it in with currency.

 

Which is why I think the store option is the best one all round.

[Vhale]

I like the store better. The problem I have with this suggestion is it feels like it's purpose is to inhibit me from playing as normal by forcing me to take CB eggs rather than breed.

 

And if people could use same amount of gold to bypass the abandon function, the cave would be empty. It would be a multiscroller's dream as they could pick up an unlimited amount of eggs. Pick up Eggs. Abandon. Transfer rares to holding scroll. Repeat.