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SullenCat

Raffle or no raffle?

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Ad revenue generates money. It's in the best interest of admins to keep users happy to keep that income coming. TJ's frequent lack of communication is not helpful in that regard.

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Ad revenue generates money. It's in the best interest of admins to keep users happy to keep that income coming. TJ's frequent lack of communication is not helpful in that regard.

That would make sense if there weren't thousands of other users attracted by the free-for-all and generating ad-revenue money. The few that complain in the forum are just that, too few: on the big scheme of things, not significant.

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I believe TJ has reasons for everything, even for not making an announcement. They may be reasons I wouldn't agree with (e.g. "to make it more interesting") or reasons that are none of our business (e.g. non-DC-related real life stuff), but... reasons.

 

It can be anything from "he just doesn't care" (which I don't believe) to "something big and cool is coming soon", but as long as there is no information, I will simply stick to "reasons". That's okay with me.

 

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As far as the arguments that say "TJ has decided there is no raffle (as I am pretty certain there won't be) and that's enough reason quit complaining" - no. Just, no. The sign of a good admin is communication with one's playerbase. In my experience, not telling your players when something established is going to change, or be removed entirely, and just doing it causes outrage - and rightly so. 

How long does it take to consider something "established" ? I though the monthly drops were established, and I still miss them. For just one example. But - so what ? The thing is that complaining (as opposed to offering polite requests and suggestions) is time consuming and corrosive.

THIS is disgraceful, and we have every right to be disappointed.

I think disgraceful is rather a lot too strong. Be disappointed, sure, but that's as far as it needs to go.

 

It's also not fair to dismiss complaints regarding the economic power prize owners have. Yes, some of them are kind enough to gift their 2/3Gs, and that's great, but they still hold all the economic power. No dragon in the entire site is worth more than those shiny 2Gs, and it doesn't matter how many get gifted, that is still a massive economic and power imbalance that needs to be addressed.

And you don't think that's maybe a VERY good reason for the end of raffles ?

 

I refuse, also, to buy into the "economic power. I loathe (as is well known here by now ! xd.png ) the idea of this game as some kind of stock market. There are imbalances in every game., I'm 71 and my reflexes in the biomes aren't as good as yours. I have caught one CB gold in all my time here. My internet is capped and VERY dodgy in Canada, and nowhere near most people's in the UK. But I can still thoroughly enjoy playing.

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And you don't think that's maybe a VERY good reason for the end of raffles ?

 

I refuse, also, to buy into the "economic power. I loathe (as is well known here by now ! xd.png ) the idea of this game as some kind of stock market. There are imbalances in every game., I'm 71 and my reflexes in the biomes aren't as good as yours. I have caught one CB gold in all my time here. My internet is capped and VERY dodgy in Canada, and nowhere near most people's in the UK. But I can still thoroughly enjoy playing.

Stopping the raffles could never fix that problem. The only way to stop it is to make them more accessible, not cut off their source. Tell me, have 2G Hollies been getting any cheaper as more years go by...?

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Stopping the raffles could never fix that problem. The only way to stop it is to make them more accessible, not cut off their source. Tell me, have 2G Hollies been getting any cheaper as more years go by...?

Don't know - never asked anyone for one. But no-one I have ever asked to breed for me has refused except two people whose CBs ONLY breed to a breed I didn't want as their partner.

 

But if THAT's your main issue - join in the store discussion thread, which would sort that.

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From being here for going on 8 years, I do not expect ANYTHING EVER anymore. All I expect is unexpected changes that TJ will not address until (maybe) months afterward. Which is why I don't even care about any decisions made on this website anymore. I just go with the flow. I wish there was a raffle, but I would rather have the store. (I HATE exclusives.)

 

I also expect GOOD changes too.

If I were in TJ's shoes I would be a lot more open about the behind the scenes action unless it was a good surprise that I was sure the majority would like. (Such as the holiday games neat new additional features to gameplay). Random changes to established traditions would be nice if they would be announced with something along the lines of "But much more is in store this year instead!".

 

I highly doubt there will be a raffle. At all.

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unless it was a good surprise that I was sure the majority would like. (Such as the holiday games neat new additional features to gameplay).

How can he EVER be sure ?

 

Some games have annoyed people; any changes to gameplay ALWAYS annoy someone, and so on !

 

But I agree with you - never expect !

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I highly doubt there will be a raffle. At all.

I highly doubt as well. But... since last year Prizes have a stolen date of February 1st, I'm waiting for that date to pass before betting more than a dollar on the impossibility of a raffle.

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I highly doubt as well. But... since last year Prizes have a stolen date of February 1st, I'm waiting for that date to pass before betting more than a dollar on the impossibility of a raffle.

There's a long wait between hearing you've won a prize and actually receiving one. I think it was two weeks, but I can't remember exactly. I believe we've missed our chance of getting prizes on February 1st, but I'm still hoping for a raffle. rolleyes.gif

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my point being with lack of raffle, if he has indeed ended it... And this is my opinion, and my opinion only and I have a right to voice my opinion, and people can agree to disagree, but if it was in my hands, my decision, I would have ended raffles long ago.

 

Reason: people here don't really deserve it as far as I am concerned. When raffles are drawn, people start to sob that is is unfair, the eggs are too exclusive, everyone should get one. Or on top of that, they cry and criticise about the sprites not being how "they" would do them. They scream and whine that the winners are not giving them out left right and centre. On top of this, there are those who feel they are far too deserving and start to harass and hassle the winners. To be frank, the members here are not capable of having a good thing, without making a fuss about this good thing.

 

To be honest, it has disgusted me for years how people behave around raffles. I understand disappointment but the pure rudeness of users. You get sore losers, and you get unsporting winners (I mean the ones that go "neeah neeah neeah, I got one you didn't!"

 

I will be the first to admit, I have strongly suggested to the powers that be we end raffles, whether or not those powers took note is anyone's guess.

 

On the flip side, maybe he has a better distribution plan in mind that might settle those who feel slighted.

 

This is all I am saying on the matter, you can rip me to shreds, but as I said, I am entitled to my opinion, this is my observations, and this is how I would deal with the situation if it were in my hands. He is good at keeping secrets. This is HIS right.

Edited by Starscream

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Starscream, I love you wub.gif

 

Personally, I'll be really glad if TJ decided to end raffles for good. I just hope that he has an alternative plan how tinsels and shimmers can be obtained, so all the drama concerning having or not having a cb prize can come to an end.

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my point being with lack of raffle, if he has indeed ended it... And this is my opinion, and my opinion only and I have a right to voice my opinion, and people can agree to disagree, but if it was in my hands, my decision, I would have ended raffles long ago.

 

Reason: people here don't really deserve it as far as I am concerned. When raffles are drawn, people start to sob that is is unfair, the eggs are too exclusive, everyone should get one. Or on top of that, they cry and criticise about the sprites not being how "they" would do them. They scream and whine that the winners are not giving them out left right and centre. On top of this, there are those who feel they are far too deserving and start to harass and hassle the winners. To be frank, the members here are not capable of having a good thing, without making a fuss about this good thing.

 

To be honest, it has disgusted me for years how people behave around raffles. I understand disappointment but the pure rudeness of users. You get sore losers, and you get unsporting winners (I mean the ones that go "neeah neeah neeah, I got one you didn't!"

 

I will be the first to admit, I have strongly suggested to the powers that be we end raffles, whether or not those powers took note is anyone's guess.

 

On the flip side, maybe he has a better distribution plan in mind that might settle those who feel slighted.

 

This is all I am saying on the matter, you can rip me to shreds, but as I said, I am entitled to my opinion, this is my observations, and this is how I would deal with the situation if it were in my hands. He is good at keeping secrets. This is HIS right.

I have to agree to this. NO RAFFLE ANYMORE!

 

 

Why?

 

(And this too, is my opinion.)

 

There are things I have seen in DC's chat where I am a Half-Op, that have me supporting the idea of no raffle whatsoever ever again.

 

('SOME' in this case being seen in actually a few users. If you feel talked to ... well)

 

The way some/few users treat the prize winners.

 

=> like a cow that can be milked

=> bashing if a Prize owner does not breed their prize as they (the users) expect them to

=> bashing if a Prize owner actually uses their scroll functions like kill, to kill off a mate for whatever reason.

=> bashing if a Prize owner does not want to trade.

=> harrassement, tries to intimidate, not-at-all-subtle waves with something the Prize owner stated to want, all to get the Prize owner to trade.

 

 

The way some/few Prize owners behave.

 

=> "Neener neener, I got one, and you did not!"

=> Constantly talking/showing off of their prize, above the normal limit. Every sentence.

=> calling others jealous when other users complain about above said things.

 

 

 

Please note that this is my personal opinion.

 

Those are just the most obnoxious things that I saw, and MOST users and Prize owners are actually decent. Just that not-even-a-handful ruined the joy of the raffles for me.

 

That this is my opinion that I formed from what I saw/witnessed in my time as an user and as one of DC's chat Half-Ops.

Most of those things are not forbidden, and I will not tell people to stop, if I don't feel it's starting up drama.

If it starts to become drama, or harrassement, I will stop people, as it is against the rules.

The raffle... to be very honest with you guys, I feel that the prizes, the very first contest even, put a divide into the community.

And that is sad.

 

 

Of course people have other opinions, but I strongly feel about those prizes, the drama happening each time they happen, and the utter relief when the hype dies down finally.

I would be glad to see the raffles/prizes gone.

Sorry to have to say that.

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Honestly, I would be glad if raffles ended for very selfish reason: I know how disappointed I would be. The chances to win are low, and as far as I know there is no consolation prize, right?

However, I understand that logically a chance to win is better than no chance at all, so whatever will happen, I will quietly (perhaps) welcome.

 

I just would love to get any information from GA. Also, very sad that monthly release has ended sad.gif January felt so empty!

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I've been hoping for an end to them for ages. Nice to finally see some support for my view ! For all the reasons here stated and more.

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Reason: people here don't really deserve it

That's... not really fair, I think.

To my experience, most of the people here are really nice and generous. It's one of the nicest forums I've seen, actually. In my opinion, it would be unfair to end the raffles for good just because of a small handful of envious losers and gloating winners. They shouldn't ruin things for all the others.

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my point being with lack of raffle, if he has indeed ended it... And this is my opinion, and my opinion only and I have a right to voice my opinion, and people can agree to disagree, but if it was in my hands, my decision, I would have ended raffles long ago.

 

Reason: people here don't really deserve it as far as I am concerned. When raffles are drawn, people start to sob that is is unfair, the eggs are too exclusive, everyone should get one. Or on top of that, they cry and criticise about the sprites not being how "they" would do them. They scream and whine that the winners are not giving them out left right and centre. On top of this, there are those who feel they are far too deserving and start to harass and hassle the winners. To be frank, the members here are not capable of having a good thing, without making a fuss about this good thing.

 

To be honest, it has disgusted me for years how people behave around raffles. I understand disappointment but the pure rudeness of users. You get sore losers, and you get unsporting winners (I mean the ones that go "neeah neeah neeah, I got one you didn't!"

 

I will be the first to admit, I have strongly suggested to the powers that be we end raffles, whether or not those powers took note is anyone's guess.

 

On the flip side, maybe he has a better distribution plan in mind that might settle those who feel slighted.

 

This is all I am saying on the matter, you can rip me to shreds, but as I said, I am entitled to my opinion, this is my observations, and this is how I would deal with the situation if it were in my hands. He is good at keeping secrets. This is HIS right.

Bah... You've the right to voice your opinion, I've the right to voice mine.

This has nothing to do with people deserving or not. The raffles were a mistake from the beginning. There was no "deserving", just dumb luck. It was a mistake to allow very few to get whatever they wanted without any effort. You get one of those silly CB Prizes and you do not need to breed, you do not need to hunt, you can just sit there and demand.

It is easy for you to blame winners and losers. Guess what, they just behaved according to the "roles" they had been assigned. Winners and losers did not create the abyss between them. The raffles did.

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I think the problem with people hoping ending raffles will end the drama is that ending them is going to increase their power, not lessen it. There was a huge surge in new 2gs/3gs after the last raffle, which was great IMO. I've been able to make some very nice prize checkers without paying an arm and a leg. So it would be nice to see another raffle to keep that trend going (and, hopefully,

to add HMs back in to put more CB Hollies out there). That being said, I'd prefer a new distribution method, like the shop, over a raffle.

 

And either way... I wish there had been an announcement of some type. TJ's love of secrecy has always been mildly annoying at best, and pretty nasty at worst (remember that recent data deleting downtime? An announcement would've been much more helpful then shutting down every confused thread as a duplicate). I get that DC isn't TJ's main job, but it seems to be popular enough that I imagine ad revenue is noticeable, and as such some more upfront communication would be nice. Now, maybe that's not the case and DC is a penny and dimes venture TJ only keeps running for our benefit... but no way to know that without more information either, yah?

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Whether or not there's a raffle, I would be sad to have no more CB prizes ever appearing again. I wouldn't care if it came at the same time every players was issued *one* prize of their choice; I have checkers I really wish I could make with the shimmerscale sprites and in the current conditions I'm unlikely to get my hands on a prizekin of those pairings, much less the 2g shiny. Even if I didn't win one myself, some sort of distribution this year will (fractionally) increase my chances one day.

 

I will not regret missing out on the drama and the ridiculous trading imbalances. But I don't want to see an end to new CB shimmers and tinsels, whatever the source might be.

 

Edit for SullenCat: I should have said, if there's an end to new CB prizes I, personally, will simply write off those plans and not try for the eggs. I already don't collect prize lines anymore for their own sake, I just wish I could do my own thing with the sprites. So at least I could completely ignore the situation at that point.

Edited by Gryphonic

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There is no way to end the trading imbalance or the "power" of the owners of CB Prizes unless the existing Prizes become readily available i.e. in the cave. I will not bet that will happen any time soon.

My point is that is very unfair to blame the players for the "imbalance", the "power", the "drama". In particular if the people blaming them are mods or "half-ops", whatever that means.

Someone else created the situation, the players just adapted to it.

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to define our territory.

 

I am a moderator - as the forums indicate with a mustard or ochre colour but in irc my rank is OP. (channel operator) I have full channel powers. Half ops, have almost all the powers, but they have some limitations. Hellen simply was indicating she does moderator work since does not wear the colours and was indicating moderator activities.

 

Generally speaking, mods try to keep their opinions to themselves because forum members will rapidly latch onto such things and really twist the meanings around.

 

I do not speak for any other staff other than myself, not even hellen. I would not refer to Mods, but a mod. I gave up a long time ago in caring what other people think of me when I speak my mind. I will speak with honest truth - providing it does not get stomped by non disclosure agreements. SO what hellen and I are saying should never be assumed to be the thoughts of all on board.

 

As a mod with dealing with drama relating to each raffle, in my mind it would be easiest to axe it.

 

I often relate the drama regarding the raffles, as being similar to botcon (transformers related)Thundercracker exclusive. We could get Skywarp and Starscream, but to complete the set, it was extremely costly. The situation is similar in nature. People were upset because they were unable to obtain a character that would ultimately complete their collection UNless they paid through the nose, maybe include an arm and a leg and a few first borns. When at a later date some Japanese magazines released a takara thundercracker exclusive, did these become more available. At a much lower cost. This had the flare back of bot con figure owners now screaming that the figures they had hoarded with intent to sell later at a much inflated price now had lost value in them. Interestingly the releases were made with slight differences. Essentially, what I am driving at. People will cry foul in pretty much all aspects of the exclusive item/dragon. I recall being disappointed at the botcon choice to make thundercracker an exlusive. I was happy to hear one was made available in japan. I had my sister in law get two, one for me and one for a friend. Me purchasing a botcon figure at hte over inflated prices whcih were 200 - 400 dollars (a figure like that would retail about 15 - 25 dollars) was not going to happen.

 

Do I miss the raffles, Not really. Am I disappointed we don't have one, a quiet yes. Am I going to lose sleep over it? No.

 

Unfortunately, I wish I was not bound by a contract, but there are things I know about the raffle's birth that I feel could put a few things into perspective.

 

However I am not opposed to some sort of solution to the raffle problem. But I am also not opposed to it being ended. TJ being mr. Mysterious all the time might have something up his sleeve. He doesn't tell us everything. Heck I keep thinking, maybe he's gonna do a draw this week that includes everyone in DC. That'll make me look like a dingleberry. Anyway, I mgiht have got off topic. I am sure ruby would let me know.

 

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That's... not really fair, I think.

To my experience, most of the people here are really nice and generous. It's one of the nicest forums I've seen, actually. In my opinion, it would be unfair to end the raffles for good just because of a small handful of envious losers and gloating winners. They shouldn't ruin things for all the others.

I... agree.

 

I think we notice the negative more because it sticks out and we keep the negative feelings with us. But I also see plenty of people:

-congratulating winners

-trying to help protect winners from harassment

-winners giving out free 2nd gens from their prizes

-giving advice to winners with how to deal with the sudden increase in attention they will receive

-refusing to contact winners because they know how overloaded winners will be, particularly right after they announce winning or prizes are handed out

 

~

 

While I didn't like the idea of raffles at first (eh, I got used to them), I also don't like the idea of another semi-discontinued breed. I suppose I can just think of it like a holiday, though. No more cbs available, but we can continue breeding them.

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I should clarify - it isn't "selfishness"on the part of owners that bugs me - that is something that isn't that common here IMNVHO, and spreads over all breeds when it occurs. It is the way the raffle has totally skewed ALL trades. Even people who are after one of one of something quite normal will ask for a 3 gen PRIZE, and the way trade threads are all "What do I have to offer for a prize". It kind of wrecks trading for those of us who'd like - say - a 2 gen tan ridgie for a 2 gen red dorsal - which used to be really easy to do. (Disclaimer: I am not trying to trade at this time - but not long ago I was offering a 2 gen tan for a 2 gen red - and - no takers at all. xd.png) The prize thread and the ban on prize trading in other threads has helped, but still...

 

It's the perception that it is somehow MORE important to ask for/get a low gen prize than eggs that will fit into a classy lineage. And the KILLER is the people who "have to" get themselves a 2 gen from every prize ever won. That makes things even tougher on those of us who - sure - like them and like making pretties with them, but who can see there are other fun things in trading.

 

I'm not wild about the store - but it would fix this once and for all.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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