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Mistress of Whispers

Raise the freezing limit/reduce cooldown

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Updated suggestion based on discussion:

 

This suggestion is to raise the freeze limit so players who collect hatchlings, can do so at the same speed as players who collect adults.

 

Effectively that would mean:

No Trophy: 28 / 2 weeks

Bronze Trophy: 35 / 2 weeks

Silver Trophy: 42 / 2 weeks

Gold Trophy: 49 / 2 weeks

 

That number equals the number of adults a player could raise from fresh egg (so no AP catches) with the use of Incubate (to offset that it doesn't account for AP catches).

 

What about the Unfreeze suggestion?

Unfreezing would still be viable with a raised Freeze limit, i.e. by choosing one of the fixed-number options (1/month)

 

Dragon Cave is pretty big on "your scroll, your choice" and I feel the same should apply to freezing. If someone wants to freeze every hatchling on their scroll, they should be able to do that without hold ups.

 

I realize that freezing, if unlimited, would be a quick way to get trophies, but to be honest: if someone wants a scroll with 500 frozen hatchies, that does not affect me. In case other people do object to a 500-frozen scroll though (for whatever reason), maybe we could lift the freezing cap *after* reaching the gold trophy?

 

I think that with having over 100 dragons in Cave the "Freeze" option limit should be lifted to more than just 16 Freezes per 2 weeks ~ maybe double the amount, cut the time...

 

♦ With so many dragons it takes a long time if you have to wait for "Freeze" option to come back and to collect all freezable S1 and S2 stages of hatchlings from every dragon there is and is to come in the future.

Having AP with 1 extra hour less now makes it so much faster to find and obtain freezables and run out of the "Freeze" option.

 

♦ Gaining new Zombie sprites will take a long while to obtain the wanted amount of  zombie fodder freezables  for people who only use the option "KILL" on Halloween and if it fails it will be even more of a wasted freeze that could have been used for other dragons.

 

♦ There will come a time that if someone will decide to get all Holiday freezables in that 1-2 weeks of them dropping with Gold trophy and the 16 Freezes and they just won't be enough.

 

♦ Right now I could easily run out of Freeze option in 1 day if I decided to go on freezing spree for one S1 and both S2 F/M stages of each dragon in cave. I'm sure many people decide to collect all stages of dragons sooner or later and with current amount of dragons in Cave and the small limit of "Freeze" option available makes it even sadder when you have to waste an influence for that one "not even worth to keep dragon" intended for freezing and abandon or give it away when it reaches the wished stage just because you have noticed you don't have any Freezes left.

 

Gold Trophy - 32 Freezes per 2 weeks

Silver Trophy - 28 Freezes per 2 weeks

Bronze Trophy - 24 Freezes per 2 weeks

No trophy - 20 Freezes per 2 weeks

 

◘ People suggest 21 freezes for Gold Trophy ~ in that case

Gold Trophy - 21 Freezes

Silver Trophy - 16 Freezes

Bronze Trophy - 13 Freezes

No Trophy - 10 Freezes

 

Or having the old limits per 1 week or 5 days?

 

♣ Clearing the AP as a problem ~  maybe have the lifted limits and the "Freeze" option appear at 5 days 12 hours mark on hatchlings so people do have some scroll lockage

 

Some people surely are unaffected by this but those who try hard to collect all freezables and freeze regularly, maybe even hoard hatchlings of certain dragons because they're just too cute; and finaly obtaining that one left needed colour of Nebula/Gemshard/ Seasonals/ Holidays or even a Neglected dragon hatchy given the small amount of Freezes makes them even sadder when they find out they have no Freezes left at that time.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Dragon Cave is also pretty big on limits. Limits for how many eggs and growing things you can have on your scroll, a limit for killing, breeding and using any kind of BSA. So why shouldn't it apply to freezing, too?

 

Whatever you want to do on your scroll, you can always do so within the limits.

 

 

That being said, I'm against unlimited freezes for another, entirely different reason. I favor the ability to unfreeze, but with limits. And, depending on how this might get implemented, unlimited freezes might hinder that.

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Dragon Cave is also pretty big on limits. Limits for how many eggs and growing things you can have on your scroll, a limit for killing, breeding and using any kind of BSA. So why shouldn't it apply to freezing, too?

 

Whatever you want to do on your scroll, you can always do so within the limits.

 

 

That being said, I'm against unlimited freezes for another, entirely different reason. I favor the ability to unfreeze, but with limits. And, depending on how this might get implemented, unlimited freezes might hinder that.

I'm with olympe. I do want unfreeze - and if this were implemented, that would prevent it happening, I fear. (And no, I have nothing I want to unfreeze - but I can see why people might want to after the holiday limits changed.)

 

Sorry, Whispers - no support.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Reading the unfreezing thread, a popular format would be to make Unfreeze available scroll-wide once a month. I'm not sure how lifting the freezing limit would clash with that?

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Actually, it was only one of several proposed options. If it is used, things won't clash. But if another popular suggestion - namely unlimited unfreezing of everything that has been frozen for at least 53 weeks, things will most definitely clash. sad.gif

 

Still, I don't see why someone would need to freeze that many, so I'm not exactly sure unlimited Freezes have my support even without considering Unfreeze. But since I don't freeze any hatchlings, I wouldn't really know whether it's beneficial or necessary or at least perceived as such.

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I must say, I simply cannot see any reason for this, actually.

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I can't imagine why someone needs unlimited freezes, either. huh.gif I don't know if there are reasons why it would cause problems, but there must have been a reason the limit was put in place in the first place. So unless there is a great overriding need to be able to freeze umpteen hatchlings I see no need to remove the limit.

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The limit has bothered me before, when I needed to catch up with frozen sprites of multiple releases. Traded for the hatchies, and then found out I was out of freezes dry.gif

So yes, I'm all for unlimited freezes, at least after reaching gold trophy if scrolls with 500 frozen hatchies are a concern.

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Well, I DO see a use for this.

 

In my case, the freezing limit slows down my process of making dragon families. Now I have a lot of families to complete by getting the 3 frozen hatchlings (m, f, s1), I'm on the verge of having no freezes to freeze the hatchies I have and need to freeze... I had a situation when I almost got some dragons grow(which would mean release=total waste, especially as the lineages of those are neat now)...

And with the current limit of freeze I have no true use of the Reds (exept new releases)... because if I use the Reds and all I have are those freeze fodders, I can't possibly freeze all of those hatchies in time... because of the freeze limit...

 

If there could be some way to make it work well with the unfreeze everyone is talking about(well, I happen to accidentally freeze CBs instead of those bred ones I need to freeze:/ I'd like to be able to reverse that), then I'm all for no freeze limit. (for gold trophy scrolls)

- Even though I won't make use of no limit for freezing myself, as by the time this would be implemented I'm sure I'd have all families complete (only exept newest releases, and maybe the rare alts, which is not much enough to reach the limit) = no longer needing no freeze limit.

Edited by VixenDra

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Maybe raise the limit to 49/2 weeks? That's how many adults a gold scroll can raise in two weeks, without workarounds like catching low time eggs / trading for hatchies.

 

Unfreeze limits can just be done separately--I like 12 a year, myself, and that has nothing to do with the freeze limit to begin with.

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Maybe raise the limit to 49/2 weeks? That's how many adults a gold scroll can raise in two weeks, without workarounds like catching low time eggs / trading for hatchies.

 

Unfreeze limits can just be done separately--I like 12 a year, myself, and that has nothing to do with the freeze limit to begin with.

As a person who collects far more hatchlings than adults, I've always supported having the same upper limit as adults for freezing. Adults take longer and we can still raise more? It limits the play style for those that want hatchlings. I go on long sprees of not collecting anything now days due to hitting the freeze limit so often. sad.gif

 

Unlimited might be a bit much, particularly if unfreeze ever happens, but raising the limit wouldn't hurt.

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49 in two weeks is a lot of frozens, especially if you're still working towards your trophies. Maybe make it more dependent on trophy level - and set the limit a little bit lower?

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49 in two weeks is a lot of frozens, especially if you're still working towards your trophies. Maybe make it more dependent on trophy level - and set the limit a little bit lower?

No trophy = 28/2 weeks

Bronze trophy = 35/2 weeks

Silver trophy = 42/2 weeks

Gold trophy = 49/2 weeks

 

Alternately, 15/20/25/30?

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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I would be cool with unlimited freezing happening only AFTER gold trophy has been reached. At that point, its no longer exploitable for trophy gains (since it seems unlikely more trophy levels will be added). In the end, its probably one of the best ways to help fix ratios (as those little frozens do count towards them...)

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I also cannot see a need for unlimited freezing and do not support it. I am okay with upping the limit so that you can get as many frozens as you could adults, as that stands to reason that is a part of the reason for the limit.

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No trophy = 28/2 weeks

Bronze trophy = 35/2 weeks

Silver trophy = 42/2 weeks

Gold trophy = 49/2 weeks

 

Alternately, 15/20/25/30?

Well, I was going to suggest egg limit x4:

no trophy => 16 (no change)

bronze => 20

silver => 24

gold => 28

 

(I'm also mostly okay with egg limit x5, even though I feel that's bordering on excessive already.)

This way, we already have implied limits should TJ ever consider upping scroll limits, be it for a platinum trophy or for playing for a year or longer. Whichever.

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Maybe raise the limit to 49/2 weeks? That's how many adults a gold scroll can raise in two weeks, without workarounds like catching low time eggs / trading for hatchies.

 

Unfreeze limits can just be done separately--I like 12 a year, myself, and that has nothing to do with the freeze limit to begin with.

That suggestion makes a lot of sense to me. Full support for this one, if unlimited freezes can't happen.

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I'm not completely sure about raising it that much, but I definitely support raising the freeze limit. If TJ is fine with increasing it that much I'm fine too, though.

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I think that with having over 100 dragons in Cave the "Freeze" option limit should be lifted to more than just 16 Freezes per 2 weeks ~ maybe double the amount, cut the time...

 

♦ With so many dragons it takes a long time if you have to wait for "Freeze" option to come back and to collect all freezable S1 and S2 stages of hatchlings from every dragon there is and is to come in the future.

Having AP with 1 extra hour less now makes it so much faster to find and obtain freezables and run out of the "Freeze" option.

 

♦ Gaining new Zombie sprites will take a long while to obtain the wanted amount of zombie fodder freezables for people who only use the option "KILL" on Halloween and if it fails it will be even more of a wasted freeze that could have been used for other dragons.

 

♦ There will come a time that if someone will decide to get all Holiday freezables in that 1-2 weeks of them dropping with Gold trophy and the 16 Freezes and they just won't be enough.

 

♦ Right now I could easily run out of Freeze option in 1 day if I decided to go on freezing spree for one S1 and both S2 F/M stages of each dragon in cave. I'm sure many people decide to collect all stages of dragons sooner or later and with current amount of dragons in Cave and the small limit of "Freeze" option available makes it even sadder when you have to waste an influence for that one "not even worth to keep dragon" intended for freezing and abandon or give it away when it reaches the wished stage just because you have noticed you don't have any Freezes left.

 

Gold Trophy - 32 Freezes per 2 weeks

Silver Trophy - 28 Freezes per 2 weeks

Bronze Trophy - 24 Freezes per 2 weeks

No trophy - 20 Freezes per 2 weeks

 

◘ People suggest 21 freezes for Gold Trophy ~ in that case

Gold Trophy - 21 Freezes

Silver Trophy - 16 Freezes

Bronze Trophy - 13 Freezes

No Trophy - 10 Freezes

 

Or having the old limits per 1 week or 5 days?

 

♣ Clearing the AP as a problem ~ maybe have the lifted limits and the "Freeze" option appear at 5 days 12 hours mark on hatchlings so people do have some scroll lockage

 

Some people surely are unaffected by this but those who try hard to collect all freezables and freeze regularly, maybe even hoard hatchlings of certain dragons because they're just too cute; and finaly obtaining that one left needed colour of Nebula/Gemshard/ Seasonals/ Holidays or even a Neglected dragon hatchy given the small amount of Freezes makes them even sadder when they find out they have no Freezes left at that time.

Edited by WoLfgIrLyS

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Dunno. There are some pros and cons to this.

 

With so many dragons it takes a long time if you have to wait for "Freeze" option to come back and to collect all freezable S1 and S2 stages of hatchlings from every dragon there is and is to come in the future.

Having AP with 1 extra hour less now makes it so much faster to find and obtain freezables and run out of the "Freeze" option.

It also takes a long time to get all the adults. So why should hatchlings be any different? Not to mention, with (almost) incu-hatchable eggs in the AP, freezing is a shortcut to getting more dragons more quickly.

 

Gaining new Zombie sprites will take a long while to obtain the wanted amount of zombie fodder freezables for people who only use the option "KILL" on Halloween and if it fails it will be even more of a wasted freeze that could have been used for other dragons.
Since you can only use kill 5 times in 2 weeks, 16 freezes is more than enough to cover that, don't you think? Plus, who actually kills frozen hatchlings for zombie fodder if you can just let them run out of time instead and save your few and precious kill slots for your adults?

 

There will come a time that if someone will decide to get all Holiday freezables in that 1-2 weeks of them dropping with Gold trophy and the 16 Freezes and they just won't be enough.

Well, there's always next year...

Considering we already have lots of holiday dragons, it's not easy to get all sprites even with limited freezes.

Take Halloween, for examples. If you'd go for adult male/female, S2 male/female and S1, you'd need to hatch 35 eggs during the time they are available, not to mention the new breed (adding +5). Since breeding week is usually 7 days, you can only raise up to 28 eggs during that time without trading for low-time eggs or hatchlings. Of course, Halloween eggs tend to be available for almost full 2 weeks in the AP - but this opens up a completely different can of worms. If someone could freeze endlessly, they'd be able to get an endless supply of S1 hatchis and empty the AP, while a player who doesn't freeze or cannot freeze any more will only be able to get 7 at a time - and hit scroll lock pretty soon after, due to the limited breeding window and excessive use of incubate.

 

Right now I could easily run out of Freeze option in 1 day if I decided to go on freezing spree for one S1 and both S2 F/M stages of each dragon in cave. I'm sure many people decide to collect all stages of dragons sooner or later and with current amount of dragons in Cave and the small limit of "Freeze" option available makes it even sadder when you have to waste an influence for that one "not even worth to keep dragon" intended for freezing and abandon or give it away when it reaches the wished stage just because you have noticed you don't have any Freezes left.
Yes, you could. If you re-read my point above about a single player with unlimited freezes being able to empty the AP single-handedly, you'll have to agree that that's not exactly a bad thing. Even 32 freezes - which might be 32 extra holiday eggs going to that one player - is a whole lot of a difference. I could get behind 16 freezes in one week, since the potential for abuse is much lesser, but 32 at one go is excessive.

Second, not every player decides to go for all stages. I'm one who doesn't, I haven't frozen a single hatchling in now 6.5 years of active playing. Neither has my daughter, though her activity level isn't nearly as high. I know there are other players who don't freeze at all, many others freeze only very rarely and only selected hatchlings - see fuzzbucket's scroll for an example.

If having to "waste" an influence on an egg, you'd better get more BSA pinks so it's not as big a deal to you. If you have enough of those, you won't ever have to worry about running out of Influences, so there's no reason to be sad - unless you count the 15 or so seconds it takes to actually perform the action.

 

As I said before, there's a huge potential for giving "freeezers" a really big advantage, especially directly after a holiday breeding season (most obviously Halloween, Winter to a lesser extent, and Valentine's in a couple of years, probably) once incu-hatchable holiday eggs hit the AP - if the freezing limit is set too high. Which is why I could get behind a shorter cooldown (of 1 week, maybe), but not behind higher limits overall. Unless, of course, there's another mechanism to prevent someone from taking almost endlessly. If, for example, a frozen hatchling counted towards your hatchling limit until it hit 4 days left - the time it would usually be able to grow up on its own. Or if you could only freeze a hatchling that had no more than 4 days left on its timer.

Edited by olympe

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Olympe makes some pretty good points.

 

Maybe give it a tiny bump to 21 freezes per 2 weeks for gold trophies, though? 16 seems a kind of random number--it might make more sense to have the freeze limit follow the growing limit for different trophies.

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it would at least be nice to be able to freeze the same amount that can reach adulthood. It's always bugged me that I can raise more dragons from egg to adult than freeze fodder.

 

and as to it being a "shortcut" if a person already has a gold trophy what's the point of getting more "faster"? Once you hit gold there is no longer any reason to boost your numbers other than "Do want"

 

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it would at least be nice to be able to freeze the same amount that can reach adulthood.

Definitely this ^

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it would at least be nice to be able to freeze the same amount that can reach adulthood. It's always bugged me that I can raise more dragons from egg to adult than freeze fodder.

 

and as to it being a "shortcut" if a person already has a gold trophy what's the point of getting more "faster"? Once you hit gold there is no longer any reason to boost your numbers other than "Do want"

re shortcut, see comment about Halloween (and, to some extent, Winter holiday) breeding week and the AP wall that lasts well longer. Giving gold trophy players 32 freezing slots in two weeks means that many players will go to the AP once the eggs reach incu-hatchable stage, get 32 freezing fodder eggs and 7 additional eggs before they need to worry about getting scroll-locked. That's 32 eggs nobody who'd like an adult will get. Imagine the scenario not for 1 player, but for 1000. Even if you take current freezing limits into account, that's still 16 extras per person compared to now. And even now, someone who freezes has 16 extras compared to someone who doesn't. Isn't 16 enough? There are a lot of players who'd love to adopt more special eggs.

 

And, as I also said, if there is some other kind of limit - like making frozen hatchlings count towards your limits until they would (naturally) hit 4 days left, or only allow freezing of hatchlings that have 4 days left, unlimited freezes are totally acceptable. Because then, you have to choose instead of getting a big extra serving.

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