Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Hello all, I'm Droiline and I like creating naming patterns in my lair, which, after doing a little reading, I found totally counts as a lineage of sorts and surprisingly enough, this particular one isn't already taken . This lineage is inspired by the naming tradition used for Chinese dragons in Naomi Novik's Temeraire series, as such, any breed can be involved and any number of new, unrelated dragons can join. News <07-12-2015> Added Terminology section, adjusted the rules to be less ambiguous. <06-12-2015> Added more dragon names! <05-12-2015> Created Lineage thread. Terminology Naming Standard - the set of rules relating to a dragon's name that define whether a dragon qualifies as part of a lineage. Breeding Standard - the set of rules relating to a dragon's breed, ancestors, mates or offspring that define whether a dragon qualifies as part of a lineage. Dynasty - a set of dragons related by blood or breeding, all of which adhere to the naming standard of this lineage and none of which are related by blood or breeding to a dragon that does not adhere to the naming standard of this lineage. Lineage Family - same thing as a Dynasty. Singleton - a dragon without relatives. Lineage Singleton - a dragon without relatives who adheres to this lineage's naming standard. Breed Title - a Chinese word or short phrase that describe a particular breed. There can only be one for each breed. Purist Lineage - a lineage where having a relative outside of the lineage disqualifies that dragon from being a member of the lineage. Given Name - any part of a dragon's name that is not their Breed Title. Rules To qualify for this lineage, a dragon must pass both these naming and breeding standards. Naming Standard: The first word of a dragon's name must be the Breed Title for that dragon's breed. The name as a whole cannot contain numbers or special characters (excluding '-' for double-barrelled names). The name must consist only of nouns or proper nouns. Breeding Standard: A dragon is not considered part of this lineage if they are in any way related to a dragon that does not adhere to the name or breeding standard of this lineage. This is a Purist Lineage.Suggestions to alterations or additions to the rules are welcome! Just make sure they are fun/interesting. Joining To join, you can either: Take an unbred caveborn dragon and name it according to our naming standard Rename a mated couple, all their offspring, all dragons mated to their offspring, all of those dragon's ancestors and all their relatives to match the naming standard. Dragons related to this family but who are not on your scroll must also abide by the naming standard. Acquire the egg of one of the actively breeding Dynasties and name this according to our naming standard Members Droiline - Scroll TheDragonofGold - Scroll ValkyrieXx - Scroll Current Dynasties Dynasties are named by taking the given names of the oldest dragon of a line and their first mate, and putting a hyphen between them. Uncommon Kiu-Fengchan Nao-Noon Shun-Tai Common Lung-Kohaku Current Breed Titles Albino - Baihua Anagallis - Shexian Balloon - Qiqiu Black - Hei Black Capped Teimarr - Heise Mei Black Tea - Cha Blacktip - Hei Qi Bleeding Moon - Xieye Blue-Banded - Dai Blusang Lindwurm - Yanshui Bright-Breasted Wyvern - Xiānyàn Brinstone - Liuhuang Brute - Wuli Canopy - Huagai Carmine Wyvern - Yanzhi Cassare - Chexiao Cheese - Nailao Coastal Waverunner - Yanhai Copper - Tong Crimson Flare Pygmy - Shanguang Dark Green - Shen Lu Day Dream - Zuomeng Deep Sea - Shenhai Electric - Dianqi Imperial Fleshcrownes - Luan Gemshard - Baoshí Gold - Jin Gold-Horned Tangars - Jin Jiao Golden Wyverns - Lunar Herald - Taiyin changed from Yue Magi - Wushi Moonstone - Yue Nebula - Xing Nhiostrife Wyvern - Haoqi Pillow - Bu Purple - Zise Pyralspite - Liu shi considering Guang Red - Hong Shimmer-Scale - Dan Guang Silver - Yin Spirit Ward - Jingshen changed from Gui Han Striped River - He Sunstone - Yang Swallow - Yan Terrae - Tu Thunder - Lei Tinsel - Bo White - Bai Xenowyrm (Gaia) - Jia Yu Xenowyrm (Mageia) - Wushi Yu Xenowyrm (Thalassa) - Shui Yu Xenowyrm (Pyro) - Jiao Yu Xenowyrm (Chrono) - Xijian Yu Adding To and Changing the List The names so far have been chosen by me sitting with google translate and playing until I found a noise that seemed to hold a suitable meaning and was aesthetically pleasing. If you think another name sounds nicer, or you have experience with the Chinese language and can offer a more accurate phrase, please do make those suggestions in this thread and we can discuss them. If a change is made I would like everyone to make an effort to alter the names of the species members involved, but failure to do so will not land you in trouble. So there we go. Want to join the lineage? Edited December 7, 2015 by Droiline Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Before I join, I do want to know... Can you add names for one more dragon? I have a Golden Wyverns (It's lineage is pretty fine, they have 1 child, and the parents are Cave Born) So it would be really cool if I can add in my Golden Wyverns (If not, I'm fine with it. No problemo) Edited December 5, 2015 by TheDragonofGold Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I would like to join the lineage with my magi, he was CB. His name is Wushi-Zhugong. Here are some phrases for you, I take Mandarin in school.: Deep Sea: Shenhai Pyralspite: Guang Nebula: Xing Black Tea: Cha Gaia Xenowyrm: Jia Kaishi Lunar Herald: Yue Pillow: Bu Black: Wan Gold Wyvern: Jin My scroll: http://dragcave.net/user/blackteadragon Edited December 5, 2015 by ValkyrieXx Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 So, I have two purple dragons that are cave bred. My Scroll Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 Hm, sounds interesting ^^ I have a few questions though, for names of the next generation would it be alright to add II or III to show what generation they are? Or is that not following the tradition of naming? Also, for Pyralspites, would that name be for all Pyralspite variations (Pyrope, Almandine, & Spessartine)? Or would it be better to have different names for each variation? Perhaps a variation of the name Lui shi? (Would a variation needed to be done for all dragons with a variation (Nebulas, Xenowyrms, Lunar Heralds, etc)?) It may be good to try to make a list for all dragons, if possible, so that others when they join can see it. Unless you want this to be only certain breeds of dragons? Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 Oh wowwie, I didn't expect such a fast response! TheDragonofGold, about the species names - the eventual aim is to have every species named on here (perhaps with the exception of old holiday dragons), and they are being added as they become relevant So yeah, we can definitely add Gold Wyverns! But we'll have to discuss their name... ValkyrieXx, thank you very much! Do you know what the best word for wyvern would be? We can't just use Jin for the Gold Wyverns as there are also Gold dragons and Gold-Horned Tangars. Also, what is the difference between Wan and Hei? And between Guang and Lui shi? What does Yue mean? How did you translate Xenowyrm?? Oh and I found a bunch of different ways of writing Magi/Wizard/Sorcerer, would Yaoren fit better than Wushi? It can be difficult to find the nuances when using a translator ~X~, I suppose some people do have numbers in their names, like in royal lines, so we could allow it? Might open up the discussion now it's not just me here . How would you feel about putting generational information into the description? Finally, the subspecies/colour variances question. I did wonder about this when I walked away from the computer today - do we want to have a general species name and then a variation name added on? There are two kinds of variations - one that comes out randomly through breeding, like Nebulas and Gemshards, and the one where you effectively have a handful of very similar looking but seperate species, like with the Pyralspites and Xenowyrms (have I got that right?). Personally I think that the former should just come under one name (though there is nothing stopping you from calling your gemshard Baoshi Blue John if you liked), but there is certainly an argument to be made for giving different names with shared parts to the latter type. What does everyone else think? Finally, is there such thing as pinging in this forum? Or a standard way to let people know you've replied to them 0_o? Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 @Droiline No I don't think so, but you can always track this forum. Awesome! Does that mean my Purples are accepted? Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 Track track track..... There it is! That's handy to know does alert you to edits as well as posts or only new posts? And yep, Shun and Tai look good to go! So are the wyverns as soon as a good name is figured out. If you like you can use Jin Shuang Zu as a place holder (means something like Double Footed Gold) until we figure out something a little more elegant. Do you know of a really good concise way of listing family groups? So far I've been just been listing the personal names of the head pair in each line - should we perhaps also link to them or to the scroll they're on? Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Oh wowwie, I didn't expect such a fast response! TheDragonofGold, about the species names - the eventual aim is to have every species named on here (perhaps with the exception of old holiday dragons), and they are being added as they become relevant So yeah, we can definitely add Gold Wyverns! But we'll have to discuss their name... ValkyrieXx, thank you very much! Do you know what the best word for wyvern would be? We can't just use Jin for the Gold Wyverns as there are also Gold dragons and Gold-Horned Tangars. Also, what is the difference between Wan and Hei? And between Guang and Lui shi? What does Yue mean? How did you translate Xenowyrm?? Oh and I found a bunch of different ways of writing Magi/Wizard/Sorcerer, would Yaoren fit better than Wushi? It can be difficult to find the nuances when using a translator ~X~, I suppose some people do have numbers in their names, like in royal lines, so we could allow it? Might open up the discussion now it's not just me here . How would you feel about putting generational information into the description? Finally, the subspecies/colour variances question. I did wonder about this when I walked away from the computer today - do we want to have a general species name and then a variation name added on? There are two kinds of variations - one that comes out randomly through breeding, like Nebulas and Gemshards, and the one where you effectively have a handful of very similar looking but seperate species, like with the Pyralspites and Xenowyrms (have I got that right?). Personally I think that the former should just come under one name (though there is nothing stopping you from calling your gemshard Baoshi Blue John if you liked), but there is certainly an argument to be made for giving different names with shared parts to the latter type. What does everyone else think? Finally, is there such thing as pinging in this forum? Or a standard way to let people know you've replied to them 0_o? If all dragon breeds are to be added to this lineage then this will definitely be a challenge ^^ But that is fine. For naming help, perhaps: Gold - Jin or Fansi or Fanying or Fanguang Gold Wyverns - Jinshu Shimmers - Dan guang Tinsel - Jiang or Bo Silver - Yin or Hui guang or Faguang Those are just a few but I can try to look at more. Generation information could be in the description if the user wants. I was more asking for owner purposes when breeding and etc. It is really up to you since this is your line ^^ I think keeping it under one name would be best as well, it may become too complicated otherwise for others to keep up and also, limited in characters for naming. Listing the family groups in each line like you have will work and adding their link will probably be the best. So anyone catch a CB dragon and naming it as such? Will there be a limit to people doing this? or will it always be open? Edited December 6, 2015 by ~X~ Share this post Link to post
Posted December 5, 2015 @~X~ Ok, since it's up to me, I'd prefer not having numbers in their names. What I was thinking was that any dragon at all can be a member of this lineage as long as all their relatives fit the naming requirement. It would be nice to cover as many species as possible, so personally I'm going to avoid duplicate species. Also, just had a new thought. I hear sometimes dragons have three egg clutches and you can only keep one? We could have things called fake/partial or servant lines whose eggs could be given in exchange for the lost true lineage eggs? Is that getting too intricate? Anywho, I'm off to sleep now (English time zone). I may not have answered all the questions yet, but my brain is starting to melt, talk later! PS: Dragon of Gold, I am loving your icon - super shiny that. Night! Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 @Droiline Whenever you see this, you should change spirit ward's name to Jingshen, which is Chinese for Spirit Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 ~X~ Oh, and the aim isn't to have every species involved in the lineage, just to have all the names up there And yes, there's no limit, although much of the paperwork will have to be moved to open spreadsheets I imagine so everyone can help keep things up to date. Currently I'm only listing actively breeding pairs under the "Current Dynasties" Section, although I haven't quite decided what constitutes a dynasty.... Does anyone want to take up the position of spreadsheet boss and set up sheets to keep track of all the dragons? TheDragonofGold I think I prefer Jingshen Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Ah alright, so just those in the first post. Could I request that Moonstone, Gold, and Silver are added to the list? (sorry if I am not catching on as fast x'D brain is over-working =p) Also, as a suggestion if Moonstone is allowed, can Yue (Moon) be for Moonstone and Taiyin (lunar) be for Lunar Heralds? As for what constitutes as a dynasty, that I feel will be largely up to. Since a dynasty usually has to do with sequence of rulers from the same family or can be a dynasty from members of a family with influence and power in certain areas, I am not sure what would be defined as dynasty for our dragons. Perhaps after a certain number of offspring from the current dynasty, a new could arise from new CB pairs? Or maybe some current offspring that decide to claim a new dynasty? I am not sure how that would work but those are just some ideas. Though I may have gone too technical =/ Edited December 6, 2015 by ~X~ Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) ~X~ Oh, and the aim isn't to have every species involved in the lineage, just to have all the names up there happy.gif And yes, there's no limit, although much of the paperwork will have to be moved to open spreadsheets I imagine so everyone can help keep things up to date. Currently I'm only listing actively breeding pairs under the "Current Dynasties" Section, although I haven't quite decided what constitutes a dynasty.... Does anyone want to take up the position of spreadsheet boss and set up sheets to keep track of all the dragons? Maybe for a spreadsheet, you could set up Lineage Moderators and have a group of people manage a spreadsheet, rather than one person. Because that can get overwhelming. Since there is a high likelihood of having multiple lineages per dragon breeds, maybe once a lineage with the breed exists, a dynasty begins, and in each dynasty are smaller sets of families, which can be identified by the first two dragons' names (the given species name and then whatever follows, seeing as how DC is set up we'll have to have a following name). I couldn't help but jump in. I've only read His Majesty's Dragon but I loved it so much okay. ALSO: Can I request that Sunstone and Nhiostrife be added to the list? And one more thing. Does each lineage have to be purebred? Edited December 6, 2015 by arya10 Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) ValkyrieXx, thank you very much! Do you know what the best word for wyvern would be? We can't just use Jin for the Gold Wyverns as there are also Gold dragons and Gold-Horned Tangars. Also, what is the difference between Wan and Hei? And between Guang and Lui shi? What does Yue mean? How did you translate Xenowyrm?? Oh and I found a bunch of different ways of writing Magi/Wizard/Sorcerer, would Yaoren fit better than Wushi? It can be difficult to find the nuances when using a translator happy.gif Your welcome! For Gold Wyverns you could use Dòufu: Means tofu, but in China during the New Year, eating fried tofu symbolizes riches and wealth, because it looks like blocks of gold. Qián: Money Jinse: Golden Zhengui: Precious ALSO: Can I request that Sunstone and Nhiostrife be added to the list? This is from a user earlier: Sunstone: Rì guāngshí or Taiyang Nhiostrife: Haoqi Black is directly translated into Hei, there are many options though, because there are so many dialects, like Cantonese. Liu Shi: A Chinese Actress and Ballerina, it can also mean Six Is. Guang, means polished. I really like Wushi, it sounds good. Xenowyrm is not a word, so I made close translations Gaia Xenowyrm: Jia Yu Mageia Xenowyrm: Wushi Yu Thalassa Xenowyrm: Shui Yu Pyro Xenowyrm: Jiao Yu Chrono Xenowyrm: Xijian Yu Yu means a Worm in a mythical sense Yue means Moon Edited December 6, 2015 by ValkyrieXx Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 @Drolline Can you explain how to get into a dynasty? I read the rules, but it still confused me. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 If I could, I would like to claim two lines.. one common and one rare. Dark Green (Vine) - Shen Lu - Shen Lu Draconna Ryu and Shen Lu Draconna Yi Silver - ??? - http://dragcave.net/lineage/Bb7LV I'll change the current names on the Silvers once I know they're accepted, and know what the proper name for silver is. Draconna is the surname for most of the dragons on my scroll, but will be used as their family name for this lineage... surname - Shen Lu family name - Draconna call name - ___________ So all of my vine lineage dragons would be named Shen Lu Draconna _____ and all of my silver lineage dragons would be named _____ Draconna _____ Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Do lineages have to be purebred, and if yes, are there any acceptable abbreviations for lineage names for dragons from multiple lineages? Edited December 6, 2015 by Infinis Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 Ok, we have Moonstone, Sunstone, Gold, Silver, Nhiostrife and the Xenowyrms added, and the confusion between lunar herald and moonstone (hopefully) sorted. I'll do my best to answer all the new replies, but to give me a prod if I've missed you out. Dynasty is what I'm currently calling a lineage family and they are named after the given name of the oldest mated couple. Might change this system later. Dragons must be related to other dragons to be part of a dynasty, unbred cavebornes are not members of a dynasty. Dynasties can be any mixture of breeds you like and there can be multiple dynasties with overlapping or identical breed sets. arya10 I'm currently on the last book and AAAAHH so much happens. Breathe. Spreadsheets sound good, but I currently have very little time to set one up or maintain it. Should of thought this through before posting the idea probably but I was young and foolish Cinnamin Draconna, I'm afraid Ryu and Yi don't qualify for the lineage as they are related to dragons who don't meet the name requirement :/. Same problem with the silvers. That aside, I would be fine with you adding a scroll-related shared name on top of the chinese species name as long as the individuals involved meet the requirements stated in the rules. Infinis, having Temeraire is definitely a win! But that doesn't mean he can be part of the lineage without meeting the family and naming requirements Bedtime now. Tomorrow I may go over my original rules and try to make them less ambiguous - they seem to be confusing people Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 I figured, that's why I removed that part of the post x3 but it didn't hurt to ask anyway! Dynasty is what I'm currently calling a lineage family and they are named after the given name of the oldest mated couple. Might change this system later. Dragons must be related to other dragons to be part of a dynasty, unbred cavebornes are not members of a dynasty. Dynasties can be any mixture of breeds you like and there can be multiple dynasties with overlapping or identical breed sets. This is kind of confusing. ;_; So any 2G+ dragons that are part of the lineage are part of a dynasty? I don't really know what you mean by lineage family. ;a; Are you sure you meant given name? I ask because given name is the first name (f. ex., Tabitha) whereas family name (f. ex., Yin) is the surname. ; Also for multiple breed lines - how do I handle naming offspring from these? Should I carry down multiple family names, carry only the mom's/dad's family, or abbreviate so I can fit as many family names as possible? (I'll be joining, I just need to figure out non-PB pair offspring naming and to testbreed my intended PB pair(s).) Share this post Link to post
Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) I am in the same boat as Infinis as I plan to join, just need to figure what pairs are allowed and how to go about naming the offspring. To be pairs for this lineaghs, the species do not need to be the same correct? (Like a nebula and a moonstone can breed and be apart of the lineage correct? As long as they have the correct naming?) Edited December 7, 2015 by ~X~ Share this post Link to post
Posted December 7, 2015 Ok, we have Moonstone, Sunstone, Gold, Silver, Nhiostrife and the Xenowyrms added, and the confusion between lunar herald and moonstone (hopefully) sorted. I'll do my best to answer all the new replies, but to give me a prod if I've missed you out. Dynasty is what I'm currently calling a lineage family and they are named after the given name of the oldest mated couple. Might change this system later. Dragons must be related to other dragons to be part of a dynasty, unbred cavebornes are not members of a dynasty. Dynasties can be any mixture of breeds you like and there can be multiple dynasties with overlapping or identical breed sets. arya10 I'm currently on the last book and AAAAHH so much happens. Breathe. Spreadsheets sound good, but I currently have very little time to set one up or maintain it. Should of thought this through before posting the idea probably but I was young and foolish Cinnamin Draconna, I'm afraid Ryu and Yi don't qualify for the lineage as they are related to dragons who don't meet the name requirement :/. Same problem with the silvers. That aside, I would be fine with you adding a scroll-related shared name on top of the chinese species name as long as the individuals involved meet the requirements stated in the rules. Infinis, having Temeraire is definitely a win! But that doesn't mean he can be part of the lineage without meeting the family and naming requirements Bedtime now. Tomorrow I may go over my original rules and try to make them less ambiguous - they seem to be confusing people I can be a moderator, if you need extra help, but I also have my own lineage, The Pillow Lineage, so I would have to balance that too. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 7, 2015 Cinnamin Draconna, I'm afraid Ryu and Yi don't qualify for the lineage as they are related to dragons who don't meet the name requirement :/. Same problem with the silvers. That aside, I would be fine with you adding a scroll-related shared name on top of the chinese species name as long as the individuals involved meet the requirements stated in the rules. Bedtime now. Tomorrow I may go over my original rules and try to make them less ambiguous - they seem to be confusing people I'm confused... the two vines are caveborn and their other offspring would NOT be considered part of this project. If the caveborns need to be childless, you should state that in the rules. Same thing for the silvers.. if they need to be childless, it needs to be stated. Otherwise, all four of my caveborns should be eligible, once they are named properly. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 7, 2015 Im set on joining this lineage, but I'm just going to wait until everything sorts out. Share this post Link to post
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