2015-12-03 - Sprite Update (Round Two)

[Wahya]

And that would be the solution. Add something new to the cave instead of mucking around with what's established and loved.

 

While I couldn't give a tinker's toot about rares because site value is meaningless to me, I would most likely be able to catch a pair at the release and be done with it. Everyone would have something new to chase and trade. Seems pretty win/win to me.

I like the cut of your jib, even if no one else does.

[Aang]

I...I'm sorry, but those of you who won't even consider how the artist might have felt having years-old artwork still hanging around when they know they're better at spriting now...you all sound very self centered. I'm the only one who matters because MY dragons got changed to something I don't like!!!

 

To use the same blanket reference everyone seems to cling to, let's say you learned to make blankets. Let's say you made a blanket that was a bit rough around the edges, some bits were uneven, but hey it's your first blanket and you're proud of it, so let's fold it and leave it on the couch so all our guests (DC players) see the brand new blanket you made.

 

Now fast forward five years, you've made a dozen or so more blankets since then and now you pick up that old blanket that has sat on the couch for five years without being mended and realize that the stitches around the edges were so roughly done that they are now coming loose and your somewhat deformed looking blanket looks like a hot mess next to the pretty one you finished last week.

 

Are you still going to leave your first blanket, unfixed fraying strings and all, hanging over the back of the couch just because everyone who saw it five years ago told you it was cute? Or would you rather put your hot mess of a blanket away somewhere and put a brand new blanket that you just finished on the couch all your guests sit on, so they don't have to touch the ratty mess you haven't washed or mended in five years?

 

Granted - If you have the right materials and you haven't switched from crocheting afghans to quilting or something drastic like that, you may just go back in and fix your old blanket - But when it's fixed, you may look at it and realize that even though the colors matched, you changed the stitches on the hem or attached a new bit of material in place of an old bit you just couldn't match, and the blanket no longer looks the same.

[Tawanda001]

Is your art for yourself or for others?

[Jazeki]

Aang, the sprites that were chosen for the new(est) silver replacement were also made years ago--if I am recalling the thread correctly.

 

And most of the people who dislike the update are not saying the spriters did a horrible job (aside from perhaps openly saying older sprites were ugly, which is a comment on a spriter's work), but commenting on specific things that they do not like.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Jazeki

[stagazer_7]

Someone did suggest adding a new set of silvers WITHOUT retiring the old ones, though. I think adding a 'bright silver' with a different pose than the originals, and slowly (ie over a year) moving the old silvers down in rarity to somewhere between current coppers and current silvers, might've been ok.

I would... actually really, really dislike this. I worked very hard to gather the CB Silvers for my scroll goals and I'd be really peeved to see their value downgraded just because a (arguably) technically superior sprite popped up. I'm all for adding a new Silver breed (and new dragons in general), but also for preserving the status and value of old ones.

 

I still stand firm that there can be a successful compromise between modernizing older sprites and preserving a lot of the original's art-style/charm which is what what made many players love and collect these breeds in the first place. IMO Splits are a nice example of how this can be achieved, but that Silvers, while being a beautiful dragon on their own, fall a bit short as an successful update, because save for the pose and some general similarities like the mane colors of the two genders and them being wingless, there's little of the original left in them. I know not everyone will see it this way and that's ok, art is subjective, someone may see the Split's change just as drastic as I see the Silver one. I'll still create many lineages with these new Silvers as some combinations look just as nice or even nicer then with the originals so there'll definitely be some new stunning combinations to explore, while some of my other lines will be retired.

 

I also feel that polite and forum feedback is important so the game creators know how these changes are accepted by us players and why some like the certain changes and others are opposed to them. I've seen some very constructive and helpful post, arguing their cases on both sides successfully, which helped me understand both those that love the new sprites and those that are bothered by it better. I'm very happy for those who liked the new Silvers instantly, for me their new style is not my cup of tea, but I don't hate or even dislike them. It opened some new lineage possibilities and I'm going to focus on exploring these new venues.

[Zovesta]

Aang, that's because people have said it before much more eloquently than I can. Here are the two quotes in particular:

I am not a sprite artist but I am an artist.  I feel there is a huge difference between putting my best work in a portfolio and putting something out for public consumption in a way that people are going to rely on the SPECIFIC look of the art in completing the goals that the art has been designed to allow them to do.  There is a difference between giving my art to someone or a site to use versus acting like that person or site is the keeper of my own art portfolio.

Oh my God, yes, this. I am an artist / writer too. I understand attachment to designs, regretting old mistakes, wanting your art to be the best it can be. HOWEVER. DC is a very simple game in which there's not much to do but collect dragons you like and make lineages with them that you like... all based on looks. So when artists update art just because they no longer like it, or feel it could be better, if the change is fairly drastic then you've literally just undone a ton of people's gameplay. I worked hard to get silvers and make lines with them because I liked their old looks, and now all that time has been invalidated in my eyes. I don't care about almost a dozen lineage projects now, and find them honestly ugly to look at because of how different in color the new silvers are from old. Feeling like our work can be instantly undone on an artist's whim is not cool at all. :/

 

Now I think some updates, like hollies and splits recently, are ok because they so carefully kept the old look and feel. But big changes like the nilias and silvers don't inspire confidence. Why should I work hard making pretty lineages if an artist can submit a radical change that totally destroys the look of what I built? Why collect lots of pretty dragons if they can suddenly look like something I don't like?

Bolded mine.

 

tl;dr Dragon Cave is just about collecting pretty pictures. Changing those pretty pictures majorly, and permanently, just because you aren't so keen on your old pictures, is a pretty lame thing to do. I despise my old art. If it's older than a month or two, chances are it humiliates me. I've deleted a great deal of my deviantArt because of that. And yet, had I made an old, yucky sprite for a website that was generally well received and I had gotten to the level I am now... I wouldn't feel right completely revamping the sprite so that it's practically unrecognizable. I might make a few minor tweaks, but then again, I might not. If it had become even one person's baby and people had real nostalgia for it, I wouldn't feel as though that I had the right to fully revamp it just because it embarrassed me.

 

Actually, I only visited the site after several months to essential "clear" my cave. That is, release extra dragons (because I'm a nut like that). I had cleaned up everything, but left all my excess Silvers because they were just so pretty and charming. Bam, suddenly my Silvers have changed, and I released some of those extras.

 

It's not that Lyzar's sprites aren't good. They're very pretty. I would like them if they weren't replacements. I said this back when I was active over four years ago that I would like more metals, and I think introducing a few (maybe two, over a fairly long period) more special metallics woulda been the way to go, rather than messing with old, cherished sprites. (P.S. first thing I did was check the wiki, apparently there are some super awesome wyrm type rare dragons?? love them!)

 

I'm mostly blowing hot air, though. This really doesn't matter because it's not going to change back, more dragons probably will be changed, yadda. I'm just venting.

 

Very final note, since everyone is talking about how the Splits were a good example: I got used to them very quickly, even though I was horrified immediately when I saw them. This is largely because it was just minor tweaks, but most things were kept the same. However, the personality did change, instead of looking like dopey, fairly harmless things, they look like buff and aggressive dragons suddenly. This didn't bother me, because that's how I pictured them all along. *shrug*

Edited December 6, 2015 by Zovesta

[lilacamy931]

So have sat on this, come back to them and sorry to say I haven't grown any fonder.

 

After reading this thread in it's entirety there is one thing I can be certain of. I will be seen as a complainer.

 

Historically I have been a pretty amicable person with change but now I disagree I can see I am to be put on the back burner.

 

Constructive critics have already been applied throughout the thread so I won't reiterate any of that. Hopefully the spriters can take it or leave as you can't please everyone and as long as they felt they did a good job that should be it really. Whenever you do artwork whether it is a wallpiece or pixelated art you are putting your heart on the line, those experienced enough hopefully have hardened their feelings over the years.

 

I've started to fade on DC this year, well aware of this. A vast majority of it has been due to RL being a bit horrific right now but the other part is every time I come back to the site I just don't feel much of a connection with the game anymore. Silvers were always going to be a big difference to me being that they were my favourite sprite on the site. Now their gone and there is the question of what changes are next, I'm not too sure of my own future on here.

 

There is a lot of good done, but sometimes change is not always the answer.

 

That is my opinion, no one elses and whilst everyone is entitled to theirs hopefully I won't be smacked down with a stick for speaking my mind for once.

 

At the end of the day - change has happened it won't go back and everyone either has to adapt or not. If you like the change fantastic grab it with both hands, if you don't feel what you feel and hopefully get yourself a compromise on how you play the game

[Fuzzbucket]

As an artist, this paragraph made me rage internally for a few seconds.

 

If I'm doing art for a website and I find that after a few years of working on my art style, the old stuff I drew makes me cringe? You can bet your left foot that I won't want old, cringeworthy art representing me as an artist and if the art is still in use, I will gladly put in my time to redraw it and offer whoever is using it on whichever site the newly redrawn version as a replacement -or- ask that they remove my old art from their site.

 

On a more personal note, as my art style gets more refined and looks better, I will continue to redraw my own OCs so that they look up to date with the newer characters in the story. Shoot, I will even rewrite a story if I feel it's bad enough to warrant the rewrite.

 

If you don't like people to change the art you love, adoptable and petsites probably aren't for you. Most petsites revamp their artwork at least once if they have been around as long as DC has, and most also will not change back to the old art because of people whinging about how awful the art is. I saw that happen only once and only because an overwhelming majority of the active players all objected to the update and the artist themselves asked that the image be reverted to the old style to stop the bashing.

May I quote myself, as this really saddens me:

To the artists - and specifically to Fi. In this thread, I am reminded of a truly horrible experience I had years ago. I got a book out of the library. It was BRILLIANT. I loved it. I hadn't ever seen anything by this author before. I wanted more.

 

In a fit of "no-one ever says nice things to people" I wrote to the author to tell her how much I had enjoyed the book, and that I wanted to buy a copy, but it seemed to be OOP.

 

Her response put me off ever reading her stuff again. I can't quote directly, but it boiled down to her wishing I hadn't ever read it, it was her first book (ed. I lie; looked it up and it was her third...), she was ashamed of it, it was appalling and now that I had reminded her of it, she was going to ask libraries to pull it.

 

GREAT validation of my own experience with it and of my taste. NO hint of thanks for liking it but you're mad, even .png (I must see if I can find it again... .png)

 

Please don't make us feel like that, spriters. If we love your old tatty work - can't we keep it and you get to draw our attention to how much better your NEW work is ?

I agree with myself. We can still love your old stuff and still be well aware of the fact that you have improved (in your view anyway ) since.

Which of the mothers among us has thrown away the plaster of paris ashtray made in Kg from their child's handprint when their child took pottery lessons and made a better ashtray ? Thought not.

... the idea of silvers being one of the only flagship dragons of DC/ each biome and thus needing such an extreme update is subjective.

 

When I think of DC, I do not think of silvers or golds. When I share DC with other people, I start with my favorite holiday dragons (like the sweetling or the solstice) and move to other breeds I like. When I think of each biome, I think of biome specific breeds.  If anything, the prizes are now the flagship breeds because many new users flock to DC and ask about how raffles work.

This. The idea of a flagship dragon is anathema to me - all of them are a part of the whole. If I were to pick one, it would probably be the silver lunars anyway, but still... I see no need for the concept.

[SharonLilly]

A question about 'flagship' dragons.

Is that a thing here?

I've been on DC for a few years now and it's the first time I've heard of that concept here.

I never really thought of just one dragon when I thought of DC, and I have definitely never thought just one dragon represents the entire game.

After reading a number of posts stating that the silver update is only to be expected as they are the 'face' of DC, I began to question my own knowledge of DC..

And even if they are indeed that, I still don't see how the updated sprites are necessarily 'so-much-better' than the previous one. Yes, they are pretty, but I thought the previous silvers were very pretty as well.

 

I am getting more and more frustrated by a number of the responses I am seeing here.

Why is it so bad that some people (like me) do not like the update?

I'm still not sure as to how many people on the forums like or dislike the update, but at one Korean DC fansite that I visit at times, the general responses were that they were surprised or disappointed with the update. Just saying that responses probably differ on other fansites.

 

Is it such a problem that some people feel that way?

I saw one post that said that we should stop complaining and be grateful for the change.

...why? I mean, seriously, I don't understand this response.

Are we not allowed to post any negative thoughts here??

This game is ultimately TJ's, so it is up to him whether things change or get added or whatnot, but I don't think that gives anyone the right to demand certain reactions from people.

 

Many of the responses to the complaints seem to somehow try and give reasons to why we don't like it - you feel nostalgic, you like 'antique' art, you don't like change, etc etc.

Do you have to label us that way? Why are you trying to justify our complaints in the first place?

 

After spending two days looking at the silvers, I am slowly getting used to the change, but I still can't stand to look at all my silver lineages. I doubt I will ever be fully comfortable with the change, the way I still am with the golds, but I've accepted (i.e. resigned) that there is nothing I can do.

 

I'll have to think about this and decide whether I'll make different pairings, or just stop making lineages and come back once in a while to catch new dragons.

 

[pinkgothic]

I...I'm sorry, but those of you who won't even consider how the artist might have felt having years-old artwork still hanging around when they know they're better at spriting now...you all sound very self centered. I'm the only one who matters because MY dragons got changed to something I don't like!!!

 

I've largely kept quiet in this discussion, but I would just like to say that I am slightly concerned about the narrative you're presenting here. I spent a moment trying to figure out where your venom came from, and suspect the root of the issue is that you are very big on intellectual property - 'art belongs to the original artist' - whereas I am very big on that intellectual property is approximately 90% wrong. (I am also an artist, for the record.)

 

This assessment may be completely wrong, but it explains what I'm seeing here and so I'm going to map the rest of my post around that; feel free to ignore all of this post if I've read you wrong between the lines. (In your stated example, you're talking about a blanket you own that other people saw - you are the undisputed owner of the blanket in that scenario. It seemed like a good guess.)

 

My stance in brief (this is deliberately not presented in a way that is meant to persuade anyone - this is a clarification):

• Once you willingly give art to someone else in exchange for something (in this case, ad revenue), it is

their property. In my world-view, they can even do whatever they like with it. They can paint over it and dress up the dragon in a tutu. That might frustrate you as the original artist, but there's absolutely nothing you ought to be able to do about it.

That's not the legal status quo, of course. I don't even want to argue for that this is the way you should look at the issue with the silvers. I don't even want to argue that this is exactly the way it ought to be, 'legal status quo'-wise. There are many reasons the above strawman of my own position doesn't apply to the situation (digital medium, ad money goes to TJ and not the artist, et cetera).

 

What I do want to make clear, though, is that accusing people of sounding self-centred seems a bit misplaced, essentially accidentally ignoring the nuances of who ought to be able to make which decisions about which artwork (= the intellectual property debate). To someone of my world-view, what happened is about the equivalent of someone breaking into your house in your absence and changing the artwork on the walls to new and improved versions.

 

Conclusion / punchline / almost a tl;dr:

 

If people can come across as self-centred because they don't want their dragons to change (when they do), why is it not self-centred because you want your art to update (when you can't)?

 

The answer, to me, is that neither is true (though the divide between the number of people affected by either notion does mean it's not a perfect equivalent by any means):

 

It's not self-centred in either case.

 

It's just an expression of profound sadness.

 

I see that people that had a (positive) emotional attachment to the artwork and to me, their emotions are at least approximately as legitimate as an artist's (/ an admin's) (negative) emotional attachment to the artwork and wanted to update it.

 

(I fall somewhere in the middle. I love the new male silver, dislike the new female silver, am OK with most of my lineages even though they look different now, except for the hellfire spirals I had which now look extremely mismatched to me. I knew the update was coming, I hoped the male silver that we got would be the one that we would get, and we did, and so all is well. But that doesn't mean I don't feel for people who feel more strongly about the issue.)

[Sir Barton]

I...I'm sorry, but those of you who won't even consider how the artist might have felt having years-old artwork still hanging around when they know they're better at spriting now...you all sound very self centered. I'm the only one who matters because MY dragons got changed to something I don't like!!!

 

To use the same blanket reference everyone seems to cling to, let's say you learned to make blankets. Let's say you made a blanket that was a bit rough around the edges, some bits were uneven, but hey it's your first blanket and you're proud of it, so let's fold it and leave it on the couch so all our guests (DC players) see the brand new blanket you made.

 

Now fast forward five years, you've made a dozen or so more blankets since then and now you pick up that old blanket that has sat on the couch for five years without being mended and realize that the stitches around the edges were so roughly done that they are now coming loose and your somewhat deformed looking blanket looks like a hot mess next to the pretty one you finished last week.

 

Are you still going to leave your first blanket, unfixed fraying strings and all, hanging over the back of the couch just because everyone who saw it five years ago told you it was cute? Or would you rather put your hot mess of a blanket away somewhere and put a brand new blanket that you just finished on the couch all your guests sit on, so they don't have to touch the ratty mess you haven't washed or mended in five years?

 

Granted - If you have the right materials and you haven't switched from crocheting afghans to quilting or something drastic like that, you may just go back in and fix your old blanket - But when it's fixed, you may look at it and realize that even though the colors matched, you changed the stitches on the hem or attached a new bit of material in place of an old bit you just couldn't match, and the blanket no longer looks the same.

Huge difference from fixing a blanket that resides only on your couch and one that has been given to thousands to do with as they like and enjoy.

 

Nearly everyone, actually everyone that I've seen, has commented on how beautiful new sprites are and how much they would appreciate them if they weren't a replacement. No one is trying to slight the artists in anyway. As I said in my first post, Lady Lyzar did a lovely job. She always does. That is never in question.

 

When changes effect the work that people have done with something they have been given, they will express their frustration. Sorry that seems self centered to you. Also, considering that we're dealing with old sprites, it isn't necessarily the original artist updating their work, but another artist sharing their vision through the new sprite. Those are also different things, and something we're likely to see more of since so many of the older artists have move on from DC.

[Fuzzbucket]

Lady Lyzar did a lovely job. She always does. That is never in question.

Just to reiterate this. If we had to have an "update" hers were the ones I hoped for. But they HAVE dramatically changed some lineages and those lineages represent years of work - you could even see those as a form of artwork, actually - for some of us. OK one of mine looks rather finer now - but others - don't. And it is possible to regret that bitterly without that being disrespectful to the artist's lovely work or being "selfish".

[dragonsoup]

I've been letting the updates grow on me.

 

The Split has but I'm afraid the Silver hasn't.

 

I'm just glad that I have not invested the time that some have in creating lineages. I lost a lot of interest in the game when it ceased to be possible to have an example of each sprite and it became mostly a trading game with a strong advantage for those with fast computers and a fast connection.

 

Now the sprites I collected are changing - some are better, some are worse. They are however not the sprites I chose to collect.

 

I collect the new releases on release ( if I remember) and occasionally breed my old CB holidays to drop some clean 2nd gens into the pool for some of the newer players to grab - not sure I'm even going to continue playing as much as that any more.

 

[JavaTigress]

This is something that we will simply have to agree to disagree on.

I think the Bottom line is the above, Sir Barton.

 

As you say, it isn't a perfect situation... but then, I feel like WHATEVER decision ismade, in any situation, there are those that feel their voices are not heard. This is unfortunate but, sadly, it is true. I guess that is why I try to enjoy my dragons for what they ARE rather than becoming so OVERLY attached to the artwork... because I KNOW it can change.( AND yes, I admit, while I dabble in lineages, I am NOT a HUGE builder of those, et). It isn't FUN to be in the minority, IF , as someone said, we can properly speak of such without knowing the thoughts of those who do not have forum accounts.

[PointOfOrigin]

As an artist, this paragraph made me rage internally for a few seconds.

 

If I'm doing art for a website and I find that after a few years of working on my art style, the old stuff I drew makes me cringe? You can bet your left foot that I won't want old, cringeworthy art representing me as an artist and if the art is still in use, I will gladly put in my time to redraw it and offer whoever is using it on whichever site the newly redrawn version as a replacement -or- ask that they remove my old art from their site.

 

On a more personal note, as my art style gets more refined and looks better, I will continue to redraw my own OCs so that they look up to date with the newer characters in the story. Shoot, I will even rewrite a story if I feel it's bad enough to warrant the rewrite.

 

If you don't like people to change the art you love, adoptable and petsites probably aren't for you. Most petsites revamp their artwork at least once if they have been around as long as DC has, and most also will not change back to the old art because of people whinging about how awful the art is. I saw that happen only once and only because an overwhelming majority of the active players all objected to the update and the artist themselves asked that the image be reverted to the old style to stop the bashing.

Your entire argument is invalid. As far as I'm aware (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), LadyLyzar wasn't the original spriter. Yes, she did get a permission to update them I guess, but my personal belief is that she should have kept to the original spriter's idea.

 

Furthermore, the fact I'm mostly angry about is that silver update thread was public. Lyzar's sšrites were the ones most supported there, but however, the used update sprites are different a ton from the ones that got approval from the public (especially female one), and as far as I can see, male shading also got changed a bit, and as a result he's way more shiny than the suggested sprites.

 

So yes, I feel like I got lied to, and like I got cheated, and I am going to be loud about that.

[Odeen]

Furthermore, the fact I'm mostly angry about is that silver update thread was public. Lyzar's sšrites were the ones most supported there, but however, the used update sprites are different a ton from the ones that got approval from the public (especially female one), and as far as I can see, male shading also got changed a bit, and as a result he's way more shiny than the suggested sprites.

 

So yes, I feel like I got lied to, and like I got cheated, and I am going to be loud about that.

That thread was not a "Silvers are going to be updated and only what's shown here is in the pool to be chosen" thread. It was a suggestion thread where many people attempted their own things in the interest of seeing if they could do the thing. It's also been closed for ages and I guarantee every single contributor to that thread at the time would probably have wanted to polish their art between then and now.

 

And what's this about the female being different? There was no female for this particular set in that thread, as far as I know.

 

So. How were you lied to? Or cheated? Seems like pretty hyperbolic rhetoric for something that was basically a case of "public thread closed due to basically talking itself in circles, user finished WIP art in private like two years later".

 

[Redds]

Ahh nu, the Silvers (especially males) were one of my favourite sprites to date, rivaled only by the recent Radiant Angels. And I thought the old sprites did indeed represent the 'arguably one of the most beautiful dragons' description. Now... they look kinda playdoh-y Sorry spriter. I don't normally comment on sprite changes (never have, actually) because they're usually good, and don't keep up to date with when and which are coming next. The update to the Golds were glorious but... I understand re-shading and small tweaks like to the Two-headeds and Ochredrakes, but not these.

 

Idk, many things to say, but I suppose no amount of comments is going to influence the change or affect future decisions anyway. In the end I don't understand why not update some of the oldest clunkier-looking sprites instead. Storms, Stones and Reds, for instance.

[cyradis4]

For those questioning about "flagship" breeds:

A "Flagship" breed is the rarest ones that the users can get. They are the most rare, and (almost always) the best. Because of their very rarity, they will ALWAYS be in demand, always show up in fansites, and always be "in your face".

 

For DC, the only two TRUE rares are Golds and Silvers.

 

The rest are user-driven rare, or just not rare. Shimmers and Tinsels are Exclusives in CB, Coppers are uncommon at best (and just not shiny), Lunar Heralds are commons, Golden Wyverns are also commons. So when new users go for the rarest dragon they can, or ask what the rarest dragons are, they are NOT told "shimmers and Tinsels", or "Coppers", or "Golden Wyverns". Or Teimarrs, or Xenos, or Trios.

 

No, they are told Golds and Silvers. And then that new users goes and GETS the Golds and Silvers (or tries to). And we've already heard from at least one person who found the old Silver... and was like, this is the most rare dragon? Ditto, for the old Golds (I did that, for the old Golds. Actually Silvers too).

 

Because they are the only 2 true-rares in the Cave, they are by default the "flagship" breeds: the rarest anyone can get. And because of that status, they HAD to be the best the Cave can put out.

 

Hate it or love it, but for the good and the future of the game, the old Golds and the old Silvers *had* to go. Nostalgia is all well and good, and keeping the old (or staying true to it) is very important, but because of the quality (or lack there-of) in the old Gold and old Silver sprites, they had to be given a heavy update / change.

 

Do I want to see similar massive changes for any other sprite on the cave? Bloody stars, NO! Never again! Stuff like Hollies and Splits yes, but over-hauls like the Silvers and Golds: no. But the Silvers and Golds had to be done, for the good of the site, because they *are* the only two true rares. It could not be avoided, just couldn't be. The rest are *not* the only two true-rares in-cave, so they do not need to be the best of the best. And the reason they don't have to be the best of the best is because the Golds and Silvers are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[shadowfighter]

For those questioning about "flagship" breeds:

A "Flagship" breed is the rarest ones that the users can get. They are the most rare, and (almost always) the best. Because of their very rarity, they will ALWAYS be in demand, always show up in fansites, and always be "in your face".

 

For DC, the only two TRUE rares are Golds and Silvers.

 

The rest are user-driven rare, or just not rare. Shimmers and Tinsels are Exclusives in CB, Coppers are uncommon at best (and just not shiny), Lunar Heralds are commons, Golden Wyverns are also commons. So when new users go for the rarest dragon they can, or ask what the rarest dragons are, they are NOT told "shimmers and Tinsels", or "Coppers", or "Golden Wyverns". Or Teimarrs, or Xenos, or Trios.

 

No, they are told Golds and Silvers. And then that new users goes and GETS the Golds and Silvers (or tries to). And we've already heard from at least one person who found the old Silver... and was like, this is the most rare dragon? Ditto, for the old Golds (I did that, for the old Golds. Actually Silvers too).

 

Because they are the only 2 true-rares in the Cave, they are by default the "flagship" breeds: the rarest anyone can get. And because of that status, they HAD to be the best the Cave can put out.

 

Hate it or love it, but for the good and the future of the game, the old Golds and the old Silvers *had* to go. Nostalgia is all well and good, and keeping the old (or staying true to it) is very important, but because of the quality (or lack there-of) in the old Gold and old Silver sprites, they had to be given a heavy update / change.

 

Do I want to see similar massive changes for any other sprite on the cave? Bloody stars, NO! Never again! Stuff like Hollies and Splits yes, but over-hauls like the Silvers and Golds: no. But the Silvers and Golds had to be done, for the good of the site, because they *are* the only two true rares. It could not be avoided, just couldn't be. The rest are *not* the only two true-rares in-cave, so they do not need to be the best of the best. And the reason they don't have to be the best of the best is because the Golds and Silvers are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Thank you! I for one love both of the silver sprites, but the new ones look so much more like their description. The Golds and Silvers did have to be updated, they needed it.

[Sycamore]

I...I'm sorry, but those of you who won't even consider how the artist might have felt having years-old artwork still hanging around when they know they're better at spriting now...you all sound very self centered. I'm the only one who matters because MY dragons got changed to something I don't like!!!

 

It seems like no consideration at all was given to how the sprite revamp affected the lineage view. How many players have spent years building lineages that are just gone now? Even if there are only, say, 50 players regularly building lineages with a dragon released 4 years ago, that's 200 cumulative years of effort invested in the original sprite. And now the people who invested all that time aren't even supposed to be critical of a major change, for the sake of, what, ego? ...Seriously?

 

I love the buff new Splits and really, really don't like the Silvers, but how anyone feels about the new sprites is irrelevant. The real question is, why take things away from the players by removing old sprites when there's the option to add the new sprites as new dragons instead of using them as replacements for established breeds where people have invested so much time?

[marshmonster]

I've been reading some of the disgruntled messages, and while I support everyone's right to express themselves I want to make sure my appreciation for the silvers is highlighted so hopefully the spriter knows that their art has caused joy in my life. I absolutely love them (and the splits too, but they're not getting dragged as badly from what I've seen)!

 

I have always wished the Silvers were shinier and prettier, and the old sprites were always meh for me. Now that they are closer to how I imagined them, I find myself going back to old "breeding projects" (as messy as they are, because a lot of my earlier lineages are like spaghetti thrown on the wall and I like them that way) and thinking hey, maybe I'll breed this old pairing again or hey, look at this old dragon I got from this person I don't talk to anymore. We had some really great times together!

 

So I'm really grateful to the spriter for that, because otherwise I wouldn't have taken that walk down memory lane and it was fun. <3

 

I also think it's cool because I think of my scroll as a way that my Valkemare self keeps track of the dragons she meets/steals/sees on her travels. So the sprite updates are a fun excuse to imagine her getting closer to Splits and Silvers and adding/changing details on her scroll because they looked different from a distance than they do closer up. The narrative is totally in a Steve Irwin kind of voice, too. :/

 

Anyway, thanks spriter! I admire your drawingness because I cannot do the drawingness.

[Jazeki]

C4, The term "flagship" just means that something is the best representation of the company/site (meaning that it is the finest, largest, most important, etc.), not that it is the the rarest. Again, the idea of a flagship breed is subjective.

 

Cheers!

 

Editing in a link to the definition of flagship for comparison: dictionary.com link.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Jazeki

[Fuzzbucket]

For those questioning about "flagship" breeds:

A "Flagship" breed is the rarest ones that the users can get. They are the most rare, and (almost always) the best. Because of their very rarity, they will ALWAYS be in demand, always show up in fansites, and always be "in your face".

 

For DC, the only two TRUE rares are Golds and Silvers.

 

The rest are user-driven rare, or just not rare. Shimmers and Tinsels are Exclusives in CB, Coppers are uncommon at best (and just not shiny), Lunar Heralds are commons, Golden Wyverns are also commons. So when new users go for the rarest dragon they can, or ask what the rarest dragons are, they are NOT told "shimmers and Tinsels", or "Coppers", or "Golden Wyverns". Or Teimarrs, or Xenos, or Trios.

 

No, they are told Golds and Silvers. And then that new users goes and GETS the Golds and Silvers (or tries to). And we've already heard from at least one person who found the old Silver... and was like, this is the most rare dragon? Ditto, for the old Golds (I did that, for the old Golds. Actually Silvers too).

 

Because they are the only 2 true-rares in the Cave, they are by default the "flagship" breeds: the rarest anyone can get. And because of that status, they HAD to be the best the Cave can put out.

 

Hate it or love it, but for the good and the future of the game, the old Golds and the old Silvers *had* to go. Nostalgia is all well and good, and keeping the old (or staying true to it) is very important, but because of the quality (or lack there-of) in the old Gold and old Silver sprites, they had to be given a heavy update / change.

 

Do I want to see similar massive changes for any other sprite on the cave? Bloody stars, NO! Never again! Stuff like Hollies and Splits yes, but over-hauls like the Silvers and Golds: no. But the Silvers and Golds had to be done, for the good of the site, because they *are* the only two true rares. It could not be avoided, just couldn't be. The rest are *not* the only two true-rares in-cave, so they do not need to be the best of the best. And the reason they don't have to be the best of the best is because the Golds and Silvers are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Sorry - I couldn't disagree very much more. JUST because a dragon is "rare" does NOT make it a flagship of any kind.

 

The only POSSIBLE case for any kind of flagship would be the first ever - which would be the blue dino - OK maybe not - and then the green. There's REASON behind those - they started the whole thing. Our very first fix.

 

Why should being rare make anything a flagship ? It isn't the first thing people think of about this place. It isn't even the first thing anyone TELLS others about when recruiting. They are - when all's said and done - just two dragons out of many, two that are harder to get, but still - two.

 

ETA @Jazeki OK - then Colossus. And by coincidence it's also one of LadyLyzar's !

Edited December 6, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[sylviamaris]

A sprite on DC =/= a blanket.

 

Personally, if someone did give me a blanket and I gave it back to them to be mended instead of mending it myself, I would expect that where I would only stitch a tear shut so as not to ruin the blanket, the person who originally made it might feel it's better to replace an entire square with a new one than to leave the ugly scars of stitched up tears all over it.

 

To say I was crushed when Neopets did the mass update of their art and switched every last pet image would be an understatement. Regardless of what else you can do with the "pets" on a site like that, you probably have the pets you have because you liked how they looked, yes? And if it changes to something you don't like, you still just lost a lot of work saving up for that Plushie Paintbrush when the plushie pets got changed to no longer look like stuffed toys and now you hate that stupid pose where they always have to hold something in their hands.

 

Was I also annoyed I only had time to grab two bright pinks before the sprite change on pinks? Yes I was. I still am annoyed about that to be honest.

 

I'm not saying don't be upset when your favorite art gets updated.

 

I'm saying that change is inevitable with art on any pet/adoptable site and whining about it won't make TJ or the spriters leave antiquated art on the site.

 

That said, I love the new silvers. It makes me feel less guilty about the silvers I own. I grabbed them because of rarity, not because of how pretty they were--I hated the old art--and I always felt I should have left them for someone who loved them. Now that I like them, I'm glad I collected the dozen or so that I have.

I want to highlight another reason why I'm okay with the updates, using your Neopets example. I rarely think about Neopets anymore, because they broke my heart with that art update. My Baby Usul was the high point, my dream pet, the epitome of everything I'd worked for, and when they changed her I couldn't even look at her anymore. The resentment and bitterness ruined everything else about the site - I couldn't stop thinking about how they took the best thing and turned it into the worst thing.

 

But that's not how I play DC! I know some people are very personally attached to each dragon, but that's just not as much of a factor for me, and I'd guess the players who know and love each individual are in the minority. There's less purely emotional investment for me, more merely aesthetic and intellectual satisfaction.

 

Then again, who knows what'd happen if they changed Vines....

 

p.s. I think I am in love with the new Silver egg, though. That thing is a real beauty.

[inuzukajessi]

Overall I generally don't approve of the idea of revamping sprites and only about half of them have improved in their aesthetic.

 

The splits startled me but I quickly adjusted to them.

 

The silvers just made me sad though, I hate the change. Their poses and expressions are super off, and they are too bright. Their manes now look like fins or membranes. Silvers were some of my favourite dragons on the site and now I don't even like them. If you have to make edits, you should make them as minimal as possible and maybe improve the shading a bit but don't change the whole thing by drawing a whole new sprite.