Event Assistance Suggestion

[Syphoneira]

I was without internet access for seven months, got back on I think about an hour before last year's Halloween Event shut down.

 

I felt lucky to be able to grab that year's new Halloween dragons (which wouldn't have been possible in that length of time, if they'd Dropped as they did this year,) and zip though the little Adventure.

 

For the first time ever, having been here for every Holiday Event apart from the Hollies, I missed most of the Halloween treats, having only a few of them, and while it sucks, that's a part of my history. I could look at the ToT on other people's scrolls to see them, but for me, of course, the dragons are the big thing anyway. Even if I could, I wouldn't pay to have my history changed, although I can see where others would like to.

 

But paying for anything other than game-unrelated replacement of ad funding does create a precedent and normalizes the idea that those with more money get more perks than they may already have, with being able to afford faster systems than can most members.

 

The accumulating advantages accorded to the more affluent beyond that inherent to their basic ability to pay for better everything/a smoother path has resulted in societal, political and ecological disaster in the real world and I personally kinda hate to think of DC as moving more toward the route which has resulted in so much warm, yellow trickle-down in the RL which we come here to get away from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bringing this up and adding the thought that the point of the Events are such as those of having fun things for people to do at DC during the Holiday Seasons, to bring people into DC to enjoy the celebration, to share the various Seasons Events among the community.

 

It sucks missing out on that and the missing results are a permanent reminder, much as missing a Holiday Release leaves one forever without CBs of that year, although of course missing badges/items won't foul up one's breeding opportunities forever either.

 

How much easier for those with money to plan to skip the whole thing and pay to have the Event items delivered while pretty much forgetting about DC Events created for us to participate in? Time being money, and all?

 

This essentially monetizes DC Events and the site itself in a manner not involved in the replacement of lost ad revenue by buying out of site advertising. And it shows a change in the concept and potential direction of DC from a collecting game to a site where collections can be purchased by those who can afford to do so.

 

 

When the Snow Forts were mentioned, it made me wonder if, in such cases as where the Events involve people creating things with provided materials, as also with such as the gingerbread houses, the wreaths and the baking Events - would those purchasing completed events wind up with a pile of materials or a constructed object?

 

How would that work? Would they be able to later work on building whatever? Would they be able to play through the adventures after everyone else? If the adventures were to be maintained for some time for those purchasing the Events to have a chance to enjoy them, which only seems fair, would the adventures also remain accessible for the rest of the membership during this period?

 

If this purchase of Event results began by either not including Events involving Raffle tickets or by allowing the Events to be purchased without Raffle tickets entered, how long before the outcry against this arose? If people can purchase some Event results, why not others?

 

If people can purchase all Event results, why shouldn't that include Raffle tickets? Why unfairly exclude anyone from the Raffle chances, when they DO have the Event results which provided tickets to everyone else?

 

Once the principles of function have been altered in an area, a number of further alterations tend fit in line with the new principles, and a concept of a 'new normal/fairness' tends to expand the shift further.

 

We've seen this happen time and again in RL and it needs to be recognized and factored into our calculations before accepting such change.

[Obscure_Trash]

If this purchase of Event results began by either not including Events involving Raffle tickets or by allowing the Events to be purchased without Raffle tickets entered, how long before the outcry against this arose? If people can purchase some Event results, why not others?

 

If people can purchase all Event results, why shouldn't that include Raffle tickets? Why unfairly exclude anyone from the Raffle chances, when they DO have the Event results which provided tickets to everyone else?

 

Again, slippery slope.

 

Hey, since trophies upped limits, why not demand more trophies and more upped limits? Why not get rid of limits at all? Because the answer is no, we're at a reasonable limit now (with an exception for even numbers suggested without upping trophies and still a total cap)?

 

We can say no to some things while still saying yes to others. ;3

 

~

 

While I support this with restrictions but would not be bummed at all if it wasn't implemented, I do not agree with all the arguments against (or for) it. xP

Edited November 8, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Tehya Faye]

If we're worried about Treat/Egg spoilers why not hold off on making the pay option available until the last couple days of the event? By then a lot of people will have already found everything, and it'd be really difficult for people just joining the event to complete their collections no matter how hard they worked at it. It'd probably lessen any potential participation decline too, though to be honest I'm having a hard time imagining great numbers of people deciding to spend money on something so insignificant that they could get for free without much trouble.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[HeatherMarie]

Okay, after reading the rest of the comments, here is where I stand right now:

 

A big fat NO WAY for being able to buy stuff like the Snow Wars, any of the particular games that we get raffle tickets from. Raffle tickets need to remain free *completely*, no freaking exceptions.

 

But the trick-or-treats and other things (like the ingredients and/or potions, this year) I don't see so negatively. It's not a "real" part of the game, it doesn't give an advantage for the actual DragonCave game in any way. I'm a little confused about the differences between allowing it to be payable *during* the event as opposed to only *after* the event... I'm just not understanding why that is such a big deal.

 

I *do* think that this suggestion is a slippery slope.... Once a game has *one* pay-feature, there will be *tons* of suggestions for more paid features, and... That's something I'm a little concerned about. Turning DC into a pay-for-play is not something I ever, ever, ever want to see happen.

[Tehya Faye]

TJ's not interested in turning this site into a pay to win scam, so it doesn't matter how many suggestions there are for paid features. Just because something is suggested doesn't mean it'll be implemented.

[AnanoKimi]

TJ's not interested in turning this site into a pay to win scam, so it doesn't matter how many suggestions there are for paid features. Just because something is suggested doesn't mean it'll be implemented.

^ This. As well as some people are failing to realize we already have a paid feature: $5 monthly sub to remove ads.

[SkylerFarrier]

I don't believe I have much of an opinion on this topic that hasn't already been stated previously by other players - I am highly against "pay to play", but as Thuban said about "online but not enough time to collect all things for badges", I am kind of in agreement. There was one time when I only had the end 2 days to collect treats (2014?) and I missed out because I couldn't be online to refresh every 15 minutes. :c

So the possibility of being able to get the last few treats interests me, but buying components for the events (not Easter Egghunt, not Trick-or-Treat) rubs me the wrong way. So I also agree with Riverwillows.

 

 

*Advertisement-Removal Paying*

The cat thing is cute, but I see it as very much different from actual game-influencing transaction-based stuffs. I block all ads because I've gotten viruses from a tiny set of sites that should not have had viruses. While I would not pay the full 50-60-whatever to remove ads, unblocking ads for specific sections of DragCave (not Biomes or AP, where loadtime is important) serves as a "Hey, you're blocking the revenue that all advertisement-allowing sites have the potential to get. Would you please remove this impediment? Thank you kindly. :3 " notification; far different from the suggestion(s) found here that affect actual playstyle.

[Natayah]

I am really tired of the "the only people who want this are people who are new and weren't around and/or just want to use money to buy advantages instead of putting in the work".... because I find this to be very wrong.

 

I'm finding that most people who want to to "pay" for things (and really seem to prefer the non game-play altering options, or else very very very limited very very low impact options) are adults with jobs who work and make money and are used to the concept that in the adult world, if something is worth your time or you enjoy it or you believe in it, you buy it or donate money if/as you can. And we either get a product or some minimal value thank you as a show of our support. That's just how the world we live in works. And if you are a working adult with extra money who doesn't want to pay or donate any money to this game, that's fine too.

 

However, those of who are looking for pay/donate options where we can trade or get what basically boils down to a trinket thank you aren't accusing people who argue against this idea of being lazy spoiled good for nothing non-workers who are cheap and don't appreciate the money and value that goes into this game. That insult goes both ways. So please stop using it every time someone makes a pay suggestion because if you get to use it, then by logic (I mean the study of logic and math), that inverse inverse (whatever that thing is called again) is also true.

 

That being said, I made a whole long list of stuff that, while I won't say none, I can't recall any oppositions to it, and it had no or no impact worth noticing on game play, and I could list 100's of more alternatives or variations of those upon request. So please stop saying there are absolutely no options out there and everything leads to the destruction of this game. But no one talks about those options. Everyone harps on everything in black and white. I think at this point maybe there should be two threads made, one where the people who support this idea are allowed to talk about the ideas they want and they can say whatever they want in support of those ideas, and work out what they would like to see, and not have people who HATE the idea stop the idea development so maybe we can work together and propose some stuff. and the people who either hate or highly disfavor the idea can have their own thread to list all the reasons why this is a horrible idea. Then after the two (or three parties because the neutral people could have their own thread too) parties' ideas can be looked at and stop being turned into a mud slinging black and white repeated same results over and over and over.... because it leads no where.

 

These ideas are not getting a chance to be fine tuned into something that maybe is a really good idea because the "never never never" people keep bringing up in long essays the same responses we've seen from every same thread and it all ends up in a dead end with the mods closing it due to fighting.

 

If it is ok with the mods, I'd really like to have a thread where I (and others) can safely discuss our ideas (which mine almost everyone had no issues with, includihng even some people who don't like the pay for play idea 99.99999% of the time) and develop them and propose them and not be attacked for it. If these ideas were like dragon requests and we were proposing a new breed, attacks like this would not be allowed. People would not be allowed to say "Your breed is stupid, it looks ugly, it conflicts with canon and should never be allowed in this world..." They would get a warning and would be banned and deleted from that thread.

 

I would like to suggest some ideas and expand and get feedback, but I don't need your feedback telling me how its going to end the game. As a marketing/fundraising/events/community relations/inside sales/owned my own business/etc person, I promise I've already thought of all of that myself. And if people want to tweak the idea because they think it falls a bit too much into it and make suggestions that's one thing. But this ongoing war of Black and White, Pay and Lose, needs to stop reoccurring in every single thread that brings it up.

 

It is really unfair to those of us who have ideas to propose and want to be able to do so. I respect your right to have another opinion. But I believe that if my ideas were developed, that MOST people would have no issue. And by most I mean more than 50% much more. And for those who don't agree it would not impact them in any way. If I can raise money to enhance your game play in a way that does not take from what you do or what you will do, shouldn't I be given that chance? Doesn't it just ultimately benefit you as well by the game having more money, thus more resources?

 

This Halloween I had to both deal with a family emergency and juggle a job promotion, all of a sudden in the same week. And I love Holidays. And I took those extra hours I should have been sleeping (though not too many but a few) to make sure I got those eggs. I collected stuff, but I sure didn't get a chance to use those potions and I'd have loved to have had that option. I hope TJ makes it something we can do once in awhile again in the future, for pay or not for pay. But just because I have a rare family emergency and life craziness during a holiday (which, btw, is the most common time for those sorts of things for people to be busy)... is it even possible I can suggest an option without being attacked and torn to pieces and not have long essays going round and round about the same thing that has every other thread closed?

 

I'm not really into dragons. I'm not really into adoptables game. I came here as a marketing/learning experience. But I really like some of the people here and I like to gift dragons, and I'd like to gift back to the game in other ways so even when I've moved on, they still can have things that make this place better. Because I believe in this place. Is that a horrible, evilly selfish motivated thing? Am I really just covering up cuz I'm too lazy and shouldn't be spending any time because how dare I try to behave like a responsible adult and have 1 hobby that lets me pick it up any time I want and doesn't penalize me for not grinding it out for several hours a day/week? Something I can come and go to as I please? This isn't greed talking. It's about me wanting to give back, because this is what I do in my life, and make things better for others for things I believe in. I know that might strike you guys as really strange that I'd want to offer to pay for things or offer that option because it involves money, but I promise you its entirely altruistic and for the game as a whole, and not for me. You may thing I'm entirely wrong, but I should have the right to propose something and get feedback on an idea, just as if I were submitting a dragon breed idea, and not be bombarded like this.

 

And I believe in these ideas, so yes, when you call out people who support these ideas and "what we are obviously about" or "what we are really wanting"... you are including me in those insults and I don't like it, and its very far from true. I want to benefit other players and TJ. Not me. It's just how I roll.

Edited November 8, 2015 by natayah

[Sinion Kabe]

I don't see any harm in a user who chooses to buy 'extra' ingredients during an event. I think it is a valid suggestion, as long as ingredients were still free (as normal) for others who cannot afford to pay-to-play. It it also help to raise extra revenue to go towards the site.

[Thuban]

One of the main reason I suggested the idea of having people NEED to log in at least once during the event, but not have items available to purchase until AFTER the event is that we frequently have had last minute things available to be picked up. This also ensures that people did at least pick up the badge (and therefore are not buying that badge).

 

Another reason I suggested AFTER the event is because events tend to end right on the holiday they are representing. If people are going to be busy for said holiday, then logically, they might not be available until AFTER the holiday. Having the items available for a week or two AFTER the event, with the added limit of "you needed to at least log in while it was in effect" is enough. This also allows for christmas collection, without screwing up raffle options (in the event that christmas had collection specific to ToT style collectible items).

 

Im not cool with the idea of having to commit to paying early into the event, in order to do it. Sometimes, I get more time than expected to work on event things, and would (halloween this year for example, I actually managed to finish the treat portion, but only made one potion total). If I can spare time to actually do the event, I'd like to, and if i cant finish, then knowing the option is there at the end is a nice stress reducer.

 

I dont think pay options should be available to give people an advantage DURING events (like being able to buy extra ingrediants). I think this needs to stay specific to ToT style collections (easter and halloween for example). If v-day has another card collection thing again ever, then MAYBE it could apply to being able to have a copy of each card, but NOT the option of sending them. This option should not be effective for the event portion of it, only the collection part.

[Tinks.Mess]

 

I am really tired of the "the only people who want this are people who are new and weren't around and/or just want to use money to buy advantages instead of putting in the work".... because I find this to be very wrong.

 

I'm finding that most people who want to to "pay" for things (and really seem to prefer the non game-play altering options, or else very very very limited very very low impact options) are adults with jobs who work and make money and are used to the concept that in the adult world, if something is worth your time or you enjoy it or you believe in it, you buy it or donate money if/as you can. And we either get a product or some minimal value thank you as a show of our support. That's just how the world we live in works. And if you are a working adult with extra money who doesn't want to pay or donate any money to this game, that's fine too.

 

Natayah as someone who has been around since 2008 (in game obviously not a big forum person) I LOVED your post but this part right here is the part that I feel like I have been trying to defend ever since I made the suggestion. I totally agree with you that there are those who are in the " 'never, never, never' crowd" who seem to make it their mission to tear apart and destroy any thread where they see the words 'money' get up on their well used soap boxes.

<hugs> to Natayah and big thanks!

 

@Riverwillows:

 

My support for this doesn't mean I support pay to play. 3/4 major events of the year take place during major holidays, that generally lead to family get togethers, traveling, and sheer chaos. Of those, one takes place during a huge 4 day convention for me.

 

2 of those take place during vacation times where kids are home from school, where a person may be having to balance babysitters, work, holiday traditions, potential traveling.

 

My compromise of "You have to at least log in during the event" gives those people with high obligations during those event periods a chance to collect the items, but they still miss out on the event itself. They wouldnt get the event perks (of having done the actual event outside of collecting treats or eggs). If its a decoration event, they wont have had the option to actually decorate. If its card giving, they wont be able to send cards. The gardening thing, well, they wouldnt have the flowers as you had to swap those out. Our events have evolved and a lot of the time, outside of ToT and egg collection itself, the items you pick up, dont stick around after the event. Only the end product.

 

This is why I see no harm in allowing people who /tried/ to be here to at least get collection items. The fact they they might end up with an undecorated (cave, garden, tree, wreath) shows they didnt do the event, or chose not to. The lack of cards and various gifts sent out to friends, would show they weren't here. I hate seeing the badges as a status symbol. By at least logging in, the badge is given. They dont log in, they dont get a badge. They dont have a badge, then the option to buy would not be there. Life is more important than a game, and their reasons for missing the event, is entirely personal to them. Other people getting items that have no inpact on actual game play does not hurt anyone. I dont see a reason to punish people, for allowing life to get in the way of a game.

Thank You Thuban you presented my point regarding the desire for this matter and it's 'limitations' very well.

 

I have stated all along that I am not wanting DC to go 'pay to play'. I'm not looking for privileges or advantages in any situation. I am not asking for a dragon market or even purchasing event items /badges to events I did not even bother logging into.

I'm asking that when Real Life places me under time restraints or having me prioritize my family over a 'game' that I not be penalized for choosing real life. I am not asking to be given a badge to an event I didn't even log in for. The year and a half I didn't play due to the fact I had cancer - I'm not looking to purchase those badges or items for events I did not even log in for.

I am just wanting to be able a way to collect the pretties I was unable to collect myself from the events I DID try to participate in, because I love looking back at the art of the items. I collect dragons I find to be artistically pleasing to me, I participate as much as life allows so I can collect the works of art which are given to us as collectibles. Personally I don't see how people even say this is a game because I view it as a collection site where I get to build lineages or patterns I find interesting. I do not personally interact with anyone nor is there a win or lose element. That's just me though, they are beautiful & interesting pieces of artwork that I collect like other people do with 'Precious Moments' figurines or (god forbid) porcelain dolls or (shudder) clowns.

 

I feel like there are those who have turned this suggestion (which is all it was) into a witch hunt. They only require to see the words 'money' or 'pay for' and they no longer even consider the topic and argue it with anyone who might show interest or support, they are just on attack mode and insistent that their desire for the 'game' be the only one that matters.

 

So thanks for taking time to read the post and understanding what I was trying to say.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Tinks.Mess