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Holiday dragon names in Encyclopedia

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5 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Toes...? I don’t think that would be made an actual breed name? If it’s in reference to Mistletoe, since we have artist-named Mistletoe dragons already, couldn’t Hollies follow Birdz’ name suggestion (which would presumably follow the oft used Holly) instead of the inactive old artist’s, especially since Birdz would be the one writing their lore at this point?

The translation of that name is Noel...?

 

7 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Edit: and I’d really like it if holidays were actually named Holiday XXXX (name), like Holiday 2017 (Garland), so they’d all sort together. 

That would still leave holiday dragons inconsistent with the other event dragons, would it not?

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Aw dang, I was googling a Saurian translator to figure out what that name meant and then TJ posted what it meant! While I guess that does put a wrinkle in the 'use creator's unofficial names' idea, I'd still love for the generally-known names to be on the site somehow. I'm wondering, too, if it might become an issue now that we have the Trading Hub, if people ask for 'Holly' or 'Mistletoe' or something but others aren't sure which of the year-named Holiday dragons is which. Might not be an issue at all, but it just came to mind...

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33 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

The site has always called them "event" dragons, of which there are three recurring events: Halloween, Holidays, and Valentine's. I recall someone years back claiming that they had been renamed from Christmas to Holiday dragons, but then I dug and found that that was not the case.


Wow, I genuinely cannot recall ever seeing them referred to as such. Maybe I'm just too used to the forum's general use of "holiday" for all three events and "Christmas" for the winter ones. (Or is that just in my head? Now I'm not sure anymore.)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing all the event dragons named so that they sort together. So Halloween XXXX (Name), Valentine's XXXX (Name), and Holiday XXXX (Name).

And while it would be weird to see Holly dragons "renamed" to Noel dragons, I really wouldn't mind it just to give all the dragons official breed names.

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30 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

The translation of that name is Noel...?

 

That would still leave holiday dragons inconsistent with the other event dragons, would it not?

 

Huh, I googled a Saurian translator and got toes (which certainly seemed wrong). I probably put it in in reverse.

 

And sorry, I wasn’t clear—I would like to see Valentines and Halloweens reclassified in that way as well. In many ways they’re more related than not, given the breeding season, so being able to use a temp breed sort to put them all together would be nice (and less maintenance then keeping a group just for that purpose)

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Given that we already have another event dragon literally named "Valentine Dragon" I don't see the downside of making hollies "Noel" or "Holiday" or whatever dragon so long as the unofficial-but-conceptor/spriter-approved names get put on all the rest in some way, either by grouping them together or having them all separate.

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On 8/5/2018 at 9:06 PM, TJ09 said:

The site has always called them "event" dragons, of which there are three recurring events: Halloween, Holidays, and Valentine's. I recall someone years back claiming that they had been renamed from Christmas to Holiday dragons, but then I dug and found that that was not the case.

 

Fleshing out the Holiday breeds with real descriptions is something I'm specifically okay with, which is the exact reason Garlands are so described. However, until that happens for all breeds the encyclopedia will stay as-is.

If here you’re referring to the holiday dragon descriptions, I distinctly recall them once reading “Christmas dragons.” Sometime around 2015 it was changed to “Holiday dragons.” The end of the descriptions also now read “spirits of winter” rather than “spirits of Christmas.” So I don’t think it’s fair to say that they were never Christmas dragons, especially since “Christmas” was written explicitly on site.

 

Also, why would it matter whether all holidays had descriptions before their real breed names could be added to the encyclopedia?

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On 8/5/2018 at 10:06 PM, TJ09 said:

Fleshing out the Holiday breeds with real descriptions is something I'm specifically okay with, which is the exact reason Garlands are so described. However, until that happens for all breeds the encyclopedia will stay as-is.

 

This makes absolutely no sense to me as a reason for not making their unofficial names official.

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I've only recently come back from a lengthy hiatus, but I was very surprised to learn that this was not already a thing.

 

On the encyclopedia breed information thing: there are other dragon breeds with none.  Why should the holiday dragons be held back from fitting in with the others, if it's only a single name in each case?

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For what it's worth, I fully support giving the 'Holiday Dragons' real names, rather than just their release index.

 

As for the breed sort - I support ALL Holidays (all events) sorting together on Legacy breed sort, but I don't sort by Legacy and it's very very frustrating to me that all of my Val/Halloween dragons are on the pages I'd expect for their breed name, but I have to scroll through two or three pages of "Holiday's dragons to find the Snow I'm looking for.

I own a lot of Snows. It's very annoying that I can't just jump to my S section on my scroll (I'm fairly good at knowing whereabouts any given letter is likely to be on my scroll) and look through them there.

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I'd like to throw in my support for this, I hate having to check the wiki every time I forget a Holiday dragon's unofficial name. My preferred solution is Holiday (date) Name along with changing the Valentine's and Halloween dragons to match - having each event's dragons sorted together would be very handy. But I'd be fine with just renaming Holiday dragons to their unofficial names; anything's better than leaving them as they are.

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I suggest that we either receive official names for the Christmas Dragons or the Halloween and Valentine ones get reverted back to how they used to be. I'm not in support for a format such as "Holiday (20xx) Name". Most of the breeds already have confirmed names, or no? Even the 2007 ones have an official name: "Noel". What is the reason for not sorting them by their real name?

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Please. Either revert the others to sorting as "Valentine" and "Halloween" or change the Holidays to sort by their actual breed names.

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On 10/16/2015 at 1:47 PM, TJ09 said:

That was done on purpose because the Holiday Event dragons don't have official names.

 

Then.... give them official names? I literally don’t understand why this is the issue.... every other dragon on the site has a name but these “just don’t.” Okay. Consistency suddenly doesn’t matter?

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I don't even care for the encyclopedia itself, but going on the trading hub and trying to remember which breed is which year is just not very user friendly. I support giving them official names just based on that.

Like, for example, change Solstice from 'Holiday 2013' to 'Holiday Solstice', and it'd be good.

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Yeah, I really agree with this suggestion and don't find any reason to not put their actual breed names, even after reading through some responses I still don't get the reason why it's not like that.

The format that works the most in my opinion would be something like "[Breed Name] (["Holiday" Year #])", or the other way around like the OP's format goes.

This might be best left for a different suggestion/topic, but it's pretty relevant so I'll say, if we could filter the encyclopedia or at least change the sort order in a way that lumps things like holiday dragons together, that could also help. Kind of like a sort-by-rarity thing or something. I can't say I'm a fan of the way the encyclopedia is set up in general; I look at it a lot when I'm bored and I genuinely feel like it could look/read better than it does in a few different areas.

Edited by Tesla

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Don't we have some precedent, though? Splits are an example of the unofficial common name eventually becoming the official name. (They were still Two-headed for quite a while after other two-headed dragons started dropping.)

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4 hours ago, schmupti said:

Don't we have some precedent, though? Splits are an example of the unofficial common name eventually becoming the official name. (They were still Two-headed for quite a while after other two-headed dragons started dropping.)

 

Same with Gray dragons, wasn't it? 

 

I would really like to see the 'unofficial' Christmas names become 'official'. I think the best format would be "Holiday 2018 (Garland)" so that they all sort together still. Given that this would be inconsistent with the way Halloween and Valentines work, I'd like to see them changed to the same format, too. 

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First of all, let me apologize for the wall of text that is to follow. It is a bit ridiculous that a lot of this is still relevant 3 years later, but a lot of good points have been made during this time so I would like to express support for at lot of them by quoting them since they express my opinion, probably better than I can.

 

On 10/17/2015 at 2:33 AM, VixenDra said:

Numbers and dates are much more problematic to remember&associate than words for majority of population I believe.

Nearly everyone who played for a while would rather recall what a Ribbon Dancer is rather than when it was released xd.png

 

I completely agree with this. Plus remembering the year of first release means that you have to be able to visualize a kind of timeline in order to know what came before and after. I would never have been able to tell straight away, which year the 'Solstices' were released. But I immediately know that 'Solstices' are the first blue Holiday dragons if they come up in conversation. After all, does it matter to a player when a dragon was released? We don't have to remember that for normal releases, either. (In fact, I recently had trouble to remember which breeds were released for DCs last birthday but that doesn't mean I don't actually know the breeds released.) And is it necessary to remember that kind of information? As of today, there are now 223 breeds in cave. That is an awful lot of information already and it is only going to be more and more with the release of new breeds. (The Encyclopedia might need to be restructured as well, currently it loads 4 times the amount of images that is the default setting of dragons per page on mobile, making it difficult so search for certain things, as it involves a lot of scrolling.) So I would at least like to see an alteration made to the name and at least include the 'unofficial' name somewhere.

 

On 10/17/2015 at 5:28 PM, purplehaze said:

But the Christmas dragons? Maybe in the beginning when there were only two or three of them that was okay, but now it is just too confusing to remember which year is which dragon! They need their "unofficial" names to become official.

 

This. When the Holiday dragon 2007 was released, nobody could have known that every Christmas in subsequent years a new Holiday breed would be released so them not having a unique breed name was not such a big deal then. And apparently that is also not entirely true if Silvanon called them 'Noel dragons'. (I would like to argue here that this name is not a good option as it is synonymously used for Christmas which in turn kind of refers to all the Christmas/Holiday breeds in my opinion.) One might even argue that it made sense lore-wise to have them all grouped together as 'Holiday dragons' with them being 'mysterious' and 'elusive' back when scroll limits only allowed for two of each kind per scroll, period, but that was abolished 5 years ago now.

 

On 10/17/2015 at 10:54 PM, DragonLady86 said:

The names are unofficial. Aren't the Halloween and Valentine's names also unofficial? Yet they are listed not as Halloweenyear and valentineyear in the encyclopedia. Why change the listing for 2 out of 3 holidays and not the third?

 

I am wondering about this, too. Did the Halloween and Valentine dragons always have their own unique description or was that added later on and we always knew their intended names because the spriters told us? I seem to remember that at least the Valentine dragons all had the same Valentine-flavored description. (There must have been more than two lines for the Valentine 2009 dragon at one point, surely?)

 

On 8/4/2018 at 4:43 AM, The Dragoness said:

As long as the Holiday dragons continue to be sorted together, I'm all for this. Some of the Holiday breeds already use their "unofficial" names in their descriptions anyway (ex. Garland). Even their creators call them by the unofficial names.

 

I can support this, after all I have custom sorted all the Holiday dragons at the end of my scroll to have them all together. I would also like to see that reversed for the Valentine and Halloween dragons as well for the sake of consistency but I would rather have the Winter Holiday dragons have their 'unofficial' name used than insisting on this.

 

On 8/4/2018 at 4:55 AM, HeatherMarie said:

The biggest 'plus' in my mind for this suggestion is the fact that, in many cases, the spriters themselves have used these 'unofficial' names when talking about their creations. DC seems to bend to spriter's wants an awful lot in other areas (discontinued breeds, sprite replacements, different mechanics, etc etc) so I really see no reason why these 'unofficial' names shouldn't be official. 

 

It seems it might be a 'all or none' problem. I wonder though, has Silvanon been asked about this issue? Quite a few of her other sprites have had redraws, the most recent being the Red Dragon; was that done with spriter's consent?

 

On 8/6/2018 at 4:06 AM, TJ09 said:

The site has always called them "event" dragons, of which there are three recurring events: Halloween, Holidays, and Valentine's. I recall someone years back claiming that they had been renamed from Christmas to Holiday dragons, but then I dug and found that that was not the case.

 

The site (=you) might have, but its userbase probably not. And why treat Halloween and Valentine's differently then as in breed sort them under their own name and not as a subcategory if they are all the same? Why not make alterations for all of them at once? That, I think, is the key problem that led to this discussion in the first place.

 

On 8/6/2018 at 4:06 AM, TJ09 said:

For the record, "holly" is not the "artist/concepter-given" nickname for the breed (hence: https://dragcave.net/view/8IlA), so any naming given to the holiday breeds is guaranteed to either ignore the community-given name or the "name-as-intended" for at least one breed.

 

If that is the one thing it all comes down to, then I suggest that it should be done just as it is for the Valentine 2009 dragon. Simply keep the Holly (seriously, who refers to them as Noel? At which point does something become common property?) as Holiday dragon 2007. In that way the inconsistencies would be kind of consistent if that makes sense. The first Holiday dragons are unique anyway, what with Vampires as the first of the Halloween dragons being unbreedable and able to 'procreate' year-round. (Of course you can make the argument here that exceptions to rules are already made which can be interpreted both ways.)

 

On 8/6/2018 at 4:06 AM, TJ09 said:

Fleshing out the Holiday breeds with real descriptions is something I'm specifically okay with, which is the exact reason Garlands are so described. However, until that happens for all breeds the encyclopedia will stay as-is.

 

So what you are saying is that the spriters/creators/anyone need to come up with a description and this might happen anyway making all of this moot. ('Fleshing out' is also a matter of definition, considering the Valentine 2009 dragons have a description of two lines!) I know a lot of things here happen in due time, it would just be nice to know a rough timeline, I guess. Something like 'The spriters have already been contacted and been asked to come up with a description; once that is done, changes will be made.'

Edited by MiaLily

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I add support to this. I never have issues with holidays until xmas because now I have to stop and wonder "okay, what derg is this year? what was the name again? do I have this or no?" I'd really love to be able to actually know right away "oh, that's Snow/Snow Angel/Snow Magi, I have this" than "oh, one of these Snow breeds, which is this again? I think I have this but not that or that?" because all I have is a release year to go off of.

 

Please make the unofficial names official. Or add the name or something into their descriptions. I feel antsy needing to rely on the wiki so much. Thank goodness for the Discord helping me differentiate them.

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On 12/21/2018 at 8:33 AM, Shuuichi said:

I suggest that we either receive official names for the Christmas Dragons or the Halloween and Valentine ones get reverted back to how they used to be. I'm not in support for a format such as "Holiday (20xx) Name". Most of the breeds already have confirmed names, or no? Even the 2007 ones have an official name: "Noel". What is the reason for not sorting them by their real name?

 

Lol this really struck home to me. Seeing them referred to as "Holiday 2014" confuses me so much. I really don't know what year anything came out. Were the Garlands 2016? 2017? I don't even know what year it is right now lmao. Considering I just referred to it as a Garland and everyone knows which dragon I'm talking about kinda says it all - their "nicknames" are basically official, and I think it would relieve a lot of confusion to make their nicknames official, considering Halloweens are.

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I really would appreciate if the nicknames for the holiday dragons become the official names and were used for the encyclopedia entries. I think it is slightly strange that the newer releases, Garland and Starsinger, have their names in their breed descriptions, but their name according to the encyclopedia is Holiday Dragon (20XX), which just seems odd to me. I also would be much easier for me to find them when searching for trades or ordering things by breed name.

 

Lore-wise, I doubt people would refer to Holiday Dragons by a specific year but rather a common name (especially since DC's world isn't earth).

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I'd suggest this: change every holiday dragon to their "unofficial" names. We would have:

 

Holiday

Holiday 2007 changed to Noel Dragon (no, Holly should not be used if the spriter had another name in mind for them)

Holiday 2008 changed to Yulebuck Dragon

Holiday 2009 changed to Snow Angel Dragon

Holiday 2010 changed to Ribbon Dancer

Holiday 2011 changed to Winter Magi Dragon

Holiday 2012 changed to Wrapping-Wing Dragon

Holiday 2013 changed to Solstice Dragon

Holiday 2014 changed to Mistletoe Dragon

Holiday 2015 changed to Aegis Dragon

Holiday 2016 changed to Snow Dragon

Holiday 2017 changed to Garland Dragon

Holiday 2018 changed to Starsinger Dragon

 

Valentine

Valentine 2009 changed to Valentine Dragon

 

Why the latest? Why not? The rest don't sort by name anymore. There is no other dragon whose breed name is Valentine, so it makes no sense to keep it as Valentine 2009. Either have it be Valentine Dragon or whatever name we don't know of, like in Hollies/Noels case.

 

And then, for people who wish to keep ALL (Christmas, Valentine, Halloween) dragons in all place, a new sorting option should be added, and that should be somthing like the "sorting by encyclopedia names" but should actually keep thw Holidays in one place. 

 

Just like the new "sort by Breed name" can coexist with the old one, same goes with that.

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2 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

Lol this really struck home to me. Seeing them referred to as "Holiday 2014" confuses me so much. I really don't know what year anything came out. Were the Garlands 2016? 2017? I don't even know what year it is right now lmao. Considering I just referred to it as a Garland and everyone knows which dragon I'm talking about kinda says it all - their "nicknames" are basically official, and I think it would relieve a lot of confusion to make their nicknames official, considering Halloweens are.

I don't know which year goes with which dragon and it is really confusing to me to have them listed that way. Look in the market. When people are asking for a particular dragon in the "wants" they don't ask for a Holiday 2017. They ask for a Garland! That is what we all know them by -- their "unofficial names"! 

 

Please make them official! I really can't see any reason not to!!!!

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23 hours ago, Forever_Mone said:

I really would appreciate if the nicknames for the holiday dragons become the official names and were used for the encyclopedia entries. I think it is slightly strange that the newer releases, Garland and Starsinger, have their names in their breed descriptions, but their name according to the encyclopedia is Holiday Dragon (20XX), which just seems odd to me. I also would be much easier for me to find them when searching for trades or ordering things by breed name.

 

Lore-wise, I doubt people would refer to Holiday Dragons by a specific year but rather a common name (especially since DC's world isn't earth).

 

THIS! I don't understand why the newer releases are allowed to have actual names (and actual descriptions!) and yet those names are not reflected in the Encyclopedia. It makes no sense, they *have* an *official* name, not unofficial like the rest but actual in-game official, and yet the Encyclopedia still only shows the year. 

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Posted (edited)

I made a suggestion for this a long time ago and it's frankly ridiculous this still isn't addressed. Especially as Starsingers have their name right there in their description and then they're listed as Holiday 2018. It's madness. If you are not a forum user or are new to the site you'd have no idea why Aegis dragons have an enraged form. This is never described anywhere, not on their description or encyclopedia even though the artist(s) designed them with their BSA being an important part of them!

 

The Holly debate is silly. Val 09s are called Val 09s because they had no official name, but we don't make every other valentine dragon be called Valentine 20XX do we? At this point, unless the original artist comes back, Hollies should just be Hollies. They've been known as that by the community for years. If the original artist comes back and says 'nope they're Dingleberry McChristmas dragons', then just change the Encyclopedia name to that. There. Done. No drama.

 

Why is this still an issue? Why can we not just treat Holiday dragons as we do Valentines and Halloween? Frankly, I think ignoring the true name the artist gave the dragon and completely removing their identity with a generic description because one single dragon breed from 2007 isn't officially named is downright insulting to the artists

 

TJ, please just change it.

Edited by Starbit-Plushie

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