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Jazeki

Extend Holiday Breeding

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This was mentioned in the adding an extra line to the AP during holidays thread.

 

As many people have seen, there is often a huge backlog of holiday eggs (especially during Halloween and Christmas) and regular eggs get trapped behind the wall of holidays and die. Some people oppose the addition of a line of regular eggs to the AP when there is a wall of holidays. As such, this is another suggestion to try and slow down the clog.

 

The suggestion is to exend holiday breeding by a few days to a week before the "official" breeding window.

 

For example, it's probably too late for Halloween, but instead of starting on October 24/25, Halloween breeding would start anywhere from October 17-23. (Again, this is just an example!)

 

Now for the restrictions to prevent breeding from adding to the clog:

-all "old" adult holidays can still only breed once during the entire breeding season.

-new CB holidays and newly grown holiday adults for the year still cannot breed until after the holiday breeding season is over.

 

Thoughts?

 

Also, Vhale was the one who originally brought this up in the other thread.

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The very first thing question that came to mind was covered by the restrictions, and with both of those in place I think it's a pretty solid idea.

 

The time added would have to be at least 3 days, to allow eggs to hatch without incubation, otherwise it probably wouldn't alleviate anything. For people with the max scroll limit, that's seven more eggs out of the AP which should definitely help unclog things.

 

On my end, it would certainly help with making sure breeding requests are spaced out in case people don't accept the teleport links right away.

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I'm pretty neutral on this.

 

The only downside I could see is letting people come back for more and more eggs, meaning some people will find it quite a bit harder to pick up pretty things. And as a unique Halloween problem, it will let people pick up extra bred Halloweens and still have time for those to grow, leaving space for max CB Halloweens rather than forcing a pick-and-choose situation with extra bred dragons vs CBs. Feels like a rather big downside though.

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I totally understand where this is coming from, but I kinda prefer the breeding season as is.

 

If the holiday clog is what people are worried about, then just overall show some more lines in the AP during Halloween IMO.

 

I'm not really opposed, I just kind of like the timing as is. I wouldn't complain either way.

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I totally understand where this is coming from, but I kinda prefer the breeding season as is.

 

If the holiday clog is what people are worried about, then just overall show some more lines in the AP during Halloween IMO.

 

I'm not really opposed, I just kind of like the timing as is. I wouldn't complain either way.

I'm sorta in the same place.

 

On the one hand, I'd LOVE to be able to get extra eggs. biggrin.gif

 

On the other hand, this will NOT solve the problem its trying to solve.

 

Why, you ask?

Well, lets look at why the Holiday wall forms in the first place. It forms because there are more eggs bred than can be taken at that point in time. Now, you'd think that spreading it out would decrease the eggs in the AP. However, it'll actually stay the same.

Why?

Because everyone now can bred an extra set of Halloweens.... And the extras from the multi-clutches to fill those 7 slots will still end up in the AP. There are already a ton of a ton of Halloween dragons out there, and each year that number goes up hugely.

 

So the only affect on the AP would be to reduce the number of dragons available to breed at the tail end of Halloween. However, there are already 2 to 3 times as many Halloweens now as there were last year... So there will be that many more available to breed the wall at the end of Halloween.

 

Personally? I'd love a longer breeding window. But I'm just warning you right now: it will NOT solve the problem of eggs dying in the AP behind the Holiday walls, and it will NOT allow people who don't like Holidays to hunt those super-low time eggs.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'm sorta in the same place.

 

On the one hand, I'd LOVE to be able to get extra eggs. biggrin.gif

 

On the other hand, this will NOT solve the problem its trying to solve.

 

Why, you ask?

Well, lets look at why the Holiday wall forms in the first place. It forms because there are more eggs bred than can be taken at that point in time. Now, you'd think that spreading it out would decrease the eggs in the AP. However, it'll actually stay the same.

Why?

Because everyone now can bred an extra set of Halloweens.... And the extras from the multi-clutches to fill those 7 slots will still end up in the AP. There are already a ton of a ton of Halloween dragons out there, and each year that number goes up hugely.

 

So the only affect on the AP would be to reduce the number of dragons available to breed at the tail end of Halloween. However, there are already 2 to 3 times as many Halloweens now as there were last year... So there will be that many more available to breed the wall at the end of Halloween.

 

Personally? I'd love a longer breeding window. But I'm just warning you right now: it will NOT solve the problem of eggs dying in the AP behind the Holiday walls, and it will NOT allow people who don't like Holidays to hunt those super-low time eggs.

 

Cheers!

C4.

This. And faster clickers will still get all the best ones anyway, and the others will STILL clog the AP. I mean - I would breed more - lots more - if I had longer and could therefore KEEP more (I have LOTS of reds.) So - more to end up in the AP from - more breeding. Problem persists...

 

What I don't understand is why everyone who is upset about DYEEEEING doesn't STOP BREEDING when a holiday approaches. If I have sent stuff to the AP, if it dies, it dies. (It was a shame once, but other than that...) But I don't care. Why would anyone else care about MY eggs dying ini there ?

 

So - if you don't want YOUR eggs to die - don't MAKE any. But don't weep for mine - they are none of your business. Simples ?

Edited by fuzzbucket

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This was mentioned in the adding an extra line to the AP during holidays thread

 

As many people have seen, there is often a huge backlog of holiday eggs (especially during Halloween and Christmas) and regular eggs get trapped behind the wall of holidays and die. Some people oppose the addition of a line of regular eggs to the AP when there is a wall of holidays. As such, this is another suggestion to try and slow down the clog.

 

The suggestion is to exend holiday breeding by a few days to a week before the "official" breeding window.

 

For example, it's probably too late for Halloween, but instead of starting on October 24/25, Halloween breeding would start anywhere from October 17-23. (Again, this is just an example!)

 

Now for the restrictions to prevent breeding from adding to the clog:

-all "old" adult holidays can still only breed once  during the entire breeding season.

-new CB holidays and newly grown holiday adults for the year still cannot breed until after the holiday breeding season is over.

 

Thoughts?

 

Also, Vhale was the one who originally brought this up in the other thread.

Ooh. With the restrictions taking care of all of my concerns, this sounds really nice, actually. I wouldn't likely end up using it to AP hunt, just to space out my own breeding more (this year I'm a few slots short, and that's despite breeding only a fraction of my Halloween dragons for myself). It would also make trading in that time less stressful.

 

I like it. smile.gif

 

Edit:

 

So - if you don't want YOUR eggs to die - don't MAKE any.

 

That's kind of mean without an ability to prevent multi-clutching. You're basically saying 'Don't want your eggs to die? Well, stop continuing your lineages on your own scroll.' This isn't like normal breeding behaviour where sending your eggs to the AP can be prevented. fuzzbucket was only referring to commons (see below), disregard this!

Edited by pinkgothic

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That's kind of mean without an ability to prevent multi-clutching. You're basically saying 'Don't want your eggs to die? Well, stop continuing your lineages on your own scroll.' This isn't like normal breeding behaviour where sending your eggs to the AP can be prevented.

No - HOLIDAY eggs don't die AFAIK - and they are the only multiclutches. The concern, as I understand it, is mostly about the other eggs that get lost. From the OP:

 

regular eggs get trapped behind the wall of holidays and die.

 

The only holiday eggs I have ever lost to death were gifted to, or picked up by, people who then failed to take care of them. (Yes I tend to look at my HOLIDAY ones, thought not others biggrin.gif Not least in case I can get lineage help from their recipients !)

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No - HOLIDAY eggs don't die AFAIK - and they are the only multiclutches. The concern, as I understand it, is mostly about the other eggs that get lost. From the OP:

Oh! I didn't realise you were referring to those, since it's not actually trivial to figure out when one needs to stop breeding commons to prevent them getting caught in the backlog of death. Thanks for clarifying. smile.gif

 

Edit: Not to mention I expect most people who are concerned about those eggs do, in fact, stop breeding, which is another thing that threw me off. I know I do and I know my friends do (stop breeding, that is); and the thought of the eggs in the backlog dying is not fun - if only because it feels so preventable. Once an egg is down to low time, it's basically guaranteed to be picked up, regardless how messy the lineage might be. Why would one not be upset about eggs dying that would normally not die? Assuming one has any emotional attachment to eggs on this site at all, which I know not everyone has. But it seems common enough to feel at least a mild protective instinct over eggs; like how we get up in arms if someone else's eggs are viewbombed, or someone's gift is snatched by an unseen third party without any notice and just abandoned and we notice their distress. Seems more of the same thing to me, and perfectly acceptable behaviour.

Edited by pinkgothic

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I think that changing the rule of 'you can keep just 1 egg form the clutch and have to abandon the rest' would help more. Like if we could keep 2 eggs instead of 1.

Still some go to AP and regarging what this thread wanted to solve less AP Halloweens=better for you.

 

People mostly breed for themselves and for trades, (AP is a side effect mostly) so if they didn't have to abandon even up to 3 eggs per breeding and could end up with eg 2 eggs from a breeding they wouldn't need to breed 7(for gold trophy) times to get 7 eggs to fill the slots(assuming they don't hunt yet but e.g. focus on trades), but 4 times could be enough, meaning less forcely abandoned eggs.

 

Also, ability to keep up to 2 eggs from a clutch would also benefit for giftings, as one would have the egg they needed from their dragons plus maybe a spare to gift or trade away or keep (depending on the major reason why one bred for-for themselves to keep, to pay for a trade/IOU or whatever).

 

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On the other hand, this will NOT solve the problem its trying to solve.

This, sadly. I like that you included that only old holidays can breed, and only once. But there are more holiday dragons each year, especially Halloweens. And the wall is getting bigger each year, so the breeding window would have to increase even further each year.

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I think that changing the rule of 'you can keep just 1 egg form the clutch and have to abandon the rest' would help more. Like if we could keep 2 eggs instead of 1.

Still some go to AP and regarging what this thread wanted to solve less AP Halloweens=better for you.

 

People mostly breed for themselves and for trades, (AP is a side effect mostly) so if they didn't have to abandon even up to 3 eggs per breeding and could end up with eg 2 eggs from a breeding they wouldn't need to breed 7(for gold trophy) times to get 7 eggs to fill the slots(assuming they don't hunt yet but e.g. focus on trades), but 4 times could be enough, meaning less forcely abandoned eggs.

 

Also, ability to keep up to 2 eggs from a clutch would also benefit for giftings, as one would have the egg they needed from their dragons plus maybe a spare to gift or trade away or keep (depending on the major reason why one bred for-for themselves to keep, to pay for a trade/IOU or whatever).

No support for this one. The single egg limit is how players manage to get the past holidays they want and need. There are plenty of people already who won't breed unless they have TOTAL CONTROL over the eggs.

 

If you want to gift - you will have an egg to gift. If you want to keep that egg - you can't gift it. No big deal. Many clutches ARE only two eggs.

 

@ pink - I think socky once confirmed that there isn't a mass death rate among holiday eggs in the AP, as they all hit it at 7 days and get snapped up LONG before they are low time.

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Putting in my actual two sense here since I just made the thread for people to discuss this option separately from the extra AP lines one.

 

I'd like an extended breeding time for holidays, but I am actually meh about it happening/not happening.

 

 

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I'd be down for this. It'd certainly make managing Halloween breeding easier, especially for people working on large lineage projects like myself, haha.

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I'd be down for this. It'd certainly make managing Halloween breeding easier, especially for people working on large lineage projects like myself, haha.

Would it though ? I have a load where I am at 2nd and 3rd gen. I can still only add one generation, possibly, unless we are able to breed new holidays when we've got 'em.

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Would it though ? I have a load where I am at 2nd and 3rd gen. I can still only add one generation, possibly, unless we are able to breed new holidays when we've got 'em.

Hmmm.... I think it would help a lot. It takes time to find trade partners, and having that extra week in hand would really help with that. For instance, last year I tried to bloodswap a 3rd gen female Cavern Lurker x Green Copper checker. I ended up keeping it because I couldn't find a bloodswap in that 1 week, and its been a year and I still haven't found a Green Copper mate. I know they are out there, but most people are only looking *during* Halloween.... And I had just one week to find said swap.

 

The extra week will also strongly encourage longer line checkers. Right now, I have a choice between continuing a 4th or 5th gen dragon lineage.... Or starting a new checker. Between 2 or 4 higher gen, older lineages.... Or breeding the 2nd gens for a 4th gen dragon from my own dragons. And with how many breeds we are getting... the extra time would be REALLY nice.

 

So while I think that this idea does NOT solve the stated problem.... it WOULD be a huge benefit. And if the 1 line in the AP idea was instituted, it wouldn't even hurt those who did NOT want to deal with the Holidays.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'm not really a fan of this, as the wall would still persist, just for longer. In the end, there'd be no common eggs left after a two-week holiday breeding period, they'd all die. Which is exactly what we don't need.

 

 

However, I think there are ways around the problem of common eggs dying. The "allow one row of non-holiday eggs" suggestion certainly is one of them. Keeping AP eggs in limbo at a minimum of 1 day left to hatch them would be another.

 

 

Although I'd be able to profit from an extended breeding window (as I have more Halloweens to breed than I can raise eggs of), I prefer to keep things the way they are. Limits are a challenge in themselves, and it makes the eggs we do choose to keep and raise much more precious than the ability to just keep them all anyway. Plus, this would change the way holidays work - no more easy pickings for newer players, no more collecting cool new lineages in the AP because, well, the competition would be harder.

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Technically this idea was already done once. When the hurricane hit TJ extended the breeding window and holidays could only breed once. But we had more time to do it. It was awesome and great fun for all involved as I recall. I don't recall anyone complaining about people "hogging all the best eggs". What actually happened was more breeding swaps. It was when Cavern Lurkers were released.

 

I don't recall there being a larger wall or commons dying, but I'd prefer both approaches rather than one.

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I definitely support this for the Halloween event, but not because of the AP wall.

There are so many different holiday lineages that I want to create and build, but I cannot because I just don't have enough egg space or time for it. Every year now, I have to pick and choose new lineages, and tell myself "I'll get the other ones next year," but when next year comes around, I have a new batch of pairings from the previous year's holiday dragons that I want eggs from.

 

Having at least an extra 4 days or so would help a ton with breeding.

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I find myself wondering if it makes sense, given the restrictions most people (including myself) consider reasonable about such an extension should stay in place, holiday breeding could actually very simply be a breeding cooldown reset for the event dragons in question.

 

As in, each Halloween, your Halloween dragons are allowed to breed again. You can breed them whenever you like until the next Halloween, but you can only do so exactly once.

 

That'd be a huge change to the way event breeding currently works, of course. It'd definitely impact trading, in the sense that someone with, say, a CB marrow could hold off until shortly before Halloween to breed their marrow, while hoping for good offers in the trade sections for a 2G marrow (not to mention with spriter alts), though I figure this is already happening now to large degree with pre-Halloween arrangements. smile.gif

 

I'm not attached to this idea, but I had it, and I figured I might as well toss it into the ring.

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Would an extra scroll space or two during holidays help the problem any? I'm thinking it may be easier to keep the time the same but allow more room.

Edited by sara4cows

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Support

 

Because numbers.

 

I have about 140 Halloween dragons. 1-4-0. It seems like a lot, but considering I've been here since 2008, that's 7 Halloween seasons and I've only missed one so far. That's about 20-25 new dragons every Halloween season. That's not much for an avid DC player. Heck, some people trade to get more CB of the Halloween release every year than that.

 

If I wanted as many eggs as possible and thus didn't breed my halloweens to other Halloween breeds, I could produce 140-560 eggs.

The AP can only show 30 eggs at a time, so I could block the AP over 18 times over with just my scroll depending on the muti-clutches. Even without muticlutches it would still be well over 100 eggs if I bred them all and locked myself, and single egg clutches are uncommon.

 

That's right. My scroll alone could do that. Next year those numbers will grow.

 

SO I'm not worried about an egg shortage or 'harder pickings' if we extend the season. Many people breed only on request for this reason - we have more than enough now. I do purebred Halloweens often to keep numbers down.

 

If we extended the season:

- Breedings would be spaced out over a longer time, meaning more chances for non-hoilday eggs to peep though.

- More eggs for us to keep that would never touch the AP

- A longer time period means more batches of AP Halloweens can be raised by AP catchers, subtracting from the AP

 

On top of that, as more breeds are added every year it will be harder and harder for people to get some of each. An extended season would fix that.

 

The only downside I see are commons dying. If commons die behind the wall more commons will be bred as they always are. It's sad, but true. If a line of non-holidays is needed or wanted I have no issue, but right now I think the extended season it is worth it.

Edited by aangs-sister

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To be honest, I don't see the harm in extending the breeding season. Even just allowing one more breeding per season per dragon would give SO many more opportunities and expand the breeding pool for people as there'd be more opportunity to do different pairings. For example I only have so many dragons and this year I couldn't decide between breeding PB Pumpkins or G2 Pumpkin x G2 Magelight. I ended up doing PB, but seeing the drops in the AP, I regret that since so many other people did as well. If I could do another breeding this season I could just do the Magelights too and then there'd be something for everyone. It seems to me that the existing limits on how many eggs/growing things you can have at a time would keep people from abusing this, and that the ultimate result would be that the holiday eggs get spread further to more players, including people who normally would have more trouble getting them.

 

I also wouldn't object, though, if this change were limited to Halloween, for the same reason that Halloween CBs can be hoarded but Christmas and Valentines CBs are limited to two per scroll. Halloween being about grabbing all you can get vs. the other two being about love/giving/etc. Or, alternatively, the extended breeding season could apply to all holidays, but with Christmas and Valentines all the eggs from the second batch would have to go the AP, to make it purely an act of generosity to breed a second time. People who don't like that could simply not do a second breeding or could try to trade for the eggs once other people catch them. They'd still benefit by being able to grab from other people's second breedings, too, so it's not like they'd be totally left out.

Edited by Lurhstaap

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To be honest, I don't see the harm in extending the breeding season. Even just allowing one more breeding per season per dragon would give SO many more opportunities and expand the breeding pool for people as there'd be more opportunity to do different pairings. For example I only have so many dragons and this year I couldn't decide between breeding PB Pumpkins or G2 Pumpkin x G2 Magelight. I ended up doing PB, but seeing the drops in the AP, I regret that since so many other people did as well. If I could do another breeding this season I could just do the Magelights too and then there'd be something for everyone. It seems to me that the existing limits on how many eggs/growing things you can have at a time would keep people from abusing this, and that the ultimate result would be that the holiday eggs get spread further to more players, including people who normally would have more trouble getting them.

 

I also wouldn't object, though, if this change were limited to Halloween, for the same reason that Halloween CBs can be hoarded but Christmas and Valentines CBs are limited to two per scroll. Halloween being about grabbing all you can get vs. the other two being about love/giving/etc. Or, alternatively, the extended breeding season could apply to all holidays, but with Christmas and Valentines all the eggs from the second batch would have to go the AP, to make it purely an act of generosity to breed a second time. People who don't like that could simply not do a second breeding or could try to trade for the eggs once other people catch them. They'd still benefit by being able to grab from other people's second breedings, too, so it's not like they'd be totally left out.

That's a good way to do it. I second this! :3 <3

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To be honest, I don't see the harm in extending the breeding season. Even just allowing one more breeding per season per dragon would give SO many more opportunities and expand the breeding pool for people as there'd be more opportunity to do different pairings. For example I only have so many dragons and this year I couldn't decide between breeding PB Pumpkins or G2 Pumpkin x G2 Magelight. I ended up doing PB, but seeing the drops in the AP, I regret that since so many other people did as well. If I could do another breeding this season I could just do the Magelights too and then there'd be something for everyone. It seems to me that the existing limits on how many eggs/growing things you can have at a time would keep people from abusing this, and that the ultimate result would be that the holiday eggs get spread further to more players, including people who normally would have more trouble getting them.

 

I also wouldn't object, though, if this change were limited to Halloween, for the same reason that Halloween CBs can be hoarded but Christmas and Valentines CBs are limited to two per scroll. Halloween being about grabbing all you can get vs. the other two being about love/giving/etc. Or, alternatively, the extended breeding season could apply to all holidays, but with Christmas and Valentines all the eggs from the second batch would have to go the AP, to make it purely an act of generosity to breed a second time. People who don't like that could simply not do a second breeding or could try to trade for the eggs once other people catch them. They'd still benefit by being able to grab from other people's second breedings, too, so it's not like they'd be totally left out.

If the point of this thread is to alleviate AP stress, doesn't a 2nd breeding put us back at square one?

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