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TJ09

2015-10-07 - Sprite Update (round one)

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I'm ready for Round 2.

 

Bring it.

Me too! Very curious about the surprise updates. biggrin.gif

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And again speaking as an artist myself, just because I make something for someone out of kindness, doesn't mean it's ok for me to go and retroactively change that gift on them with no consideration of their feelings--even if I feel the new ones is a hundred thousand times better.

I don't think this analogy works. It's less we're changing something that we gave you, it's more like a new piece is being given.

 

It's just unfortunate that the old sprites are removed and replaced, but that's how TJ wants it, not the artists.

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I'm ready for Round 2.

 

Bring it.

This is me.

 

Bring it on

 

I'm waiting for the inevitable hellstorm of comments that will pop up when the Silvers come out. I'm making sure I have some popcorn handy xd.png

 

Here. Got some *hands popcorn to spectators*

 

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Report to a mod as necessary, but it's not okay to post this type of comment.

 

Things that need to be changed should be changed, imo. The one I think should definitely be changed is the stone dragons. Of all the old sprites, they're the flattest, with very little shading. I've always had difficulty seeing the dragon in it, actually. More than anything, I would like to see a new pose for it.... and also increase its size. It's supposed to be the most massive of all the dragons, I think it should be redesigned to reflect that.

 

Actually, I think it could even be an exception for the sprite limits. Make the sprite able to be made in 130 x 130 pixels, instead of the maximum of 120 x 120. We know no dragon is able to be as big as it is, this was already determined. So having it be visually larger would be great, as well as provide more space for the spriter(s) to give it an awesome pose as well as detailed shading + texturing. This is even more needed now given how the plated colossus has been released and LOOKS much bigger even though stones are supposed to be the biggest. Actually, a lot of dragons now look physically larger than the stones. I just checked, and the sprite for the stone dragon as it is right now isn't even 100 pixels in either direction; it's 99 x 89.

 

The hatchlings are all right, except like before, they need more shading. Maybe even make them bigger too, but keep the same pose. Even the egg could use a touchup, though that's not as important as the adult redesign.

 

 

Back to the pose, it says in the flavor text that it rarely moves, and the pose it's in is... kinda too dynamic for that. It would be pretty dang hard to stay in that position for very long, balanced as it is on two legs with its tail curving around and forelegs and head extended.

 

Therefore, I think it would be an excellent candidate for a revamp.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Very well said Jazeki.

 

I know I'm very guilty of having gone back and torn up previous works. (I was my mother's bane) And I know starting out, the easiest thing to do is side profiles. So once we all move on to action shots with good foreshortening, it's easy to look at those early side profiles with a bit of bias. As we know when we did them, half the reason was our lack of skill at anatomy. But, sometimes being so focused on that, we lose site of the fact that the art was charming in it's own right. Elementary and basic pose or not.

 

As a community, I think it's potentially a bad idea if we end up "scrubbing" out all the side profiles for "better" poses. Side profiles are good for beginners and give new artists a path to entry. It's good to have those beginner dragons in there because as a natural starting point when people are inspired to try to create too. Losing them all would lose a bit of that "Built from the Ground Up" feeling.

 

That said, I do agree the Nilia's neck looks much better.

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I'm so happy that you like the neck better - I even like the neck better.  I think it's so cool how when we work together we can come up with something that everyone (well almost) is happy(er) with.  I wouldn't have been able to think of the changes myself. 

 

In regards to the longer legs - they will be staying because the females are supposed to be bigger/longer.

 

Thank you guys again for your help and crit! smile.gif

Thank you for taking all the crits into consideration (I imagine this couldn't have been easy) - the new new female looks much better now. smile.gif

 

--------------------------

 

Now, what I really wish is to is to be able to unlock all the old sprites in the Encyclopedia - that would be really cool and would make the loss of an old beloved sprite a bit easier to take, because it'd still be just a click away + it would also show the evolution of the sprite that's currently in Cave (because it seems like we'll be getting more updates like this in the future and it's a real shame old art is being lost).

Edited by stagazer_7

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Jumping in a bit late... but THANK YOU for fixing the female nilia's neck! My main point of consternation with that sprite is now gone. biggrin.gif Also, THANK YOU for taking care of that awkward pixel hump at the base of the male nilia's neck! The sprites are much, much better now. smile.gif

 

Also, THANK YOU for toning down the shininess of the adults! Now they don't look like completely different dragon species when placed next to their adorable hatchlings.

 

NOW I can love the nilia update. Thanks again!!!

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Actually, speaking as an artist--and one that often does collaborations with others in a different artistic medium, everyone's opinion should be about equal and when it comes to instances where the art is being shared with a huge amount of people and being used by someone predominately other than the artist (as with DC), the users' opinion should be taken into account and considered.

 

I like the updates overall and have no lineages that are ruined, but the artists have a heck of a lot more say (or at least have the ability to facilitate visual changes) than many of the regular users on the site. Keep in mind at one point, artists had the ability to pull their artwork off the site entirely. Also, some of these updates are coming because artists wanted them (as opposed to users wanting them as with the nilia sprite).

 

True, DC should keep on trucking with its updates to keep users interested and more new users coming in, but there should be more input than just the artists' going into the sprite updates. True, artists cannot be expected to please everyone and users should not be expected to like everything about DC, but there should be some sort of happy medium going on. Some sprites, like the holly, golds, and perhaps silvers, did need serious updates. But others, like the nilia and horse updates, are more for artistic aesthetics than anything else.

 

I have no "horse dragon" in this race, but I can say that I am not too thrilled about the "tada, more surprise updates later" part of this announcement as they seem to be arbitrarily done. I am also not too thrilled over the sense of entitlement that some artists are expressing and some users are expressing on behalf of the artists.  Many users should be a little more kind and constructive with their criticism/critique of the sprites, but the answer is not to belittle the regular users that are unhappy with changes with comments about putting more effort in or that there would be no DC without artists.

 

The artists are justifiably attached to their work, but they are not the only ones involved in bringing a sprite to the cave. There are often overlooked concept-ers  as well.  Mostly, it is important to remember that once a sprite is in-cave, many people become attached to the sprite. Not just the artist. If these were personal sprites for use by just the artists, any updates and changes would be fine and dandy. But they are no longer "just the artist's" sprites. When you have something that a lot of people are involved with, it is important to try and make sure there is some sort of outside input before completely changing something due to artistic license.

 

If not,  there should be some sort of update somewhere on DC that indicates that artists will continue to maintain creative control over their work once it's in cave rather than control being argued over or insinuated.

 

(As always, 'you' is general.)

^ This, so much.

 

Sorry, but through all the reading I asked myself: "If you aren't able to achieve the dragon's look, then WHY do you flag it as finished or even want to release it??"

Seriously guys, if you cannot achieve the look of a dragon yourself, then try to get some help from another artist or try as long as you need to achieve it, BEFORE throwing it into the Cave.

If your skill level is not high enough to reach what you have envisioned for that kind of breed, if you don't want a co-worker, then just keep trying and practising until you have reached it and are satisfied and not running after it a year or so later and changing its whole design or adding a dimorphism to it.

And before anyone says: "But I worked on it for years and I want it DONE".... well, I work - together with others, now with just only one person - on a concept of mine since 2010, because the sprites had to go through DOZENS of changes.

So, no .. don't try to bring that argument up with me.

We could have called the concept done, but I didn't want a set of half-finished things to be called done, that obviously needed fixes here and there and I am thankful that Shajana is thinking the same <3.

 

 

As the Quote and many others said:

Once a sprite has been released, it is NOT JUST the spriter(s) baby anymore, it becomes the baby of a whole lot more people .. just like the saying on here goes "Once it is on my scroll, it is my dragon, not yours".

And tbh?

Spriters should be proud of the fact, that people become so attached to it, that they get upset about changes.

It's by far the biggest compliment one can get, in my eyes, because it means that the hours of work someone put into them weren't for nothing and the pixels that exist in their current arrangement are loved.

 

The whole mood swings, that are leading to changes, i.e. "I want to poke at this again, even though it is anatomically correct, just because I feel like it" should be regulated - heavily - just like the whole "You are bad to me, I am pulling my sprites!".

If a sprite shows no anatomic nor shading issues, it should be left alone.

I loved the Old Golds, but I understood that they had to undergo a change, due to the fact that nearly everything about them was wrong.

Same way I understood the changes made to the Holly (it actually looks less derpy and more clean now).

In regards to the Silvers... I don't see a need for changes, but if they HAVE TO happen then maybe a metallic shading (MAYBE!) and some minor atonomy tweaks, just like Birdz has done it with the Holly.

 

Lyzar is a good example of slight changes in her sprites, that won't bring a big difference (not including the male Horse, because I don't get why this had to happen years later...), if at all.

I actually barely noticed her minor shading tweaks to the Sunrise/set and the, now, female horse, only when people pointed it out that it had happened.

And if I recall right, those slight shading changes didn't really influence any lineages, but correct me if I am wrong on that one, please.

 

 

So, don't get me wrong.

I AM for NEEDED changes and updates, but not for mood based ones or just because the artist came up with a different idea for the breed years later.

Either settle for an idea or don't - but then don't release it for people to grow attached to it.

Yes, it will put you in a "chained up" position, but that's how it goes in life.

You don't have the chance to redo everything you have done in the past and sometimes you have to accept what you did and move on to make it better with something else.

There are so many pictures and figurines out there which have a big value and they cannot be changed either, without destroying it for people who saw the old one.

I.e. one cannot just paint over the Mona Lisa, because they feel like it tongue.gif.

 

This text of mine may seem to be harsh, but I have to say that I don't care about that factor, as it is clear that the users will still be belittled when it comes to the artists wishes.

All of what his does is, it gives off an aura of "I want the change, you have to deal with it, so shush" and thusly such reactions as C4's, all the others and mine are happening.

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To be honest, I like seeing all these new updates and tired of seeing everyone complaining, or ranting, or putting like half a page comments about it.

 

I'm just going to roll with it, and if I don't like it I don't have to continue to collect those dragons anymore.

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Closing. Most should have seen the announcement of round 1 of the sprite updates by now.

 

 

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