2015-10-07 - Sprite Update (round one)

[Esko]

Oh, I can agree, the female Nilla looks much better. 100% less broken necks once again (if they were ever broken)

 

The legs don't look too long to me, but then again, I don't have too much of a sense of dragon anatomy besides recognizing some awkward things

[Tehya Faye]

Just imagine her stading... that tiny body on those overly long limbs...

It might not be that bad/creepy.

[Fuzzbucket]

It might not be that bad/creepy.

That's - awesome !

 

And she does look lovely now.

[Sir Barton]

That's - awesome !

 

And she does look lovely now.

Maned wolf. The least studied canine. They're awesome.

[cyradis4]

While I collect sprites, and I'm not interested at all on lineages, I've no problem agreeing on the positive influence of lineage breeders. I just think that, whatever benefit they bring to the community (in particular to the forum community), it is in no way comparable to the benefit brought to the whole community by the artists.

Again, in my book, the wishes of the artists, with TJ's agreement, take priority. And, as Corteo demonstrated today, artists seem to be quite more flexible than lineage breeders.

*snort*

When one has no power, there is no way to compromise.

 

The spriters can, and some do, make drastic changes without considering the impact on lineage builders. Mind, I've noticed that it seems like a lot more consideration is being taken on the impact sprite changes have on lineage builders! But having dimorphsim added after the fact is still worrisome. Note: I'm not talking about general updates, I'm talking about extreme changes in pose and color.

 

Lineage builders already face the fact that their lineages can be destroyed at any time by a tombstone appearing. In fact, tombstones have been used to *maliciously* destroy other's hard work. I know it was malicious... because the person who did it was bragging about it! There are any number of ideas out there, like a BSA for the Nilias themselves, to help ease that problem, and it has been around for years. And yet... Despite the Terms of Service.... Someone else can still destroy the lineage of one of my dragons if they own an ancestor. The only way to protect yourself is to make sure you own all the ancestors in question (which is how I protect myself from tombstones in most lineages), but for some lineages, that's not possible. Sadly, the most *valuable* lineages are the ones most likely to draw such attention.

 

So is it really asking too much, that there be an official policy in place to put some tiny constraints on how drastic an artist can change an already-released sprite's pose?

 

I'm thrilled that Corteo chose to make a change to the Nilia female's neck, and they'll look great with other pygmies, but they are still a drastic change from the old sprite (from a circle to a line).... And make Pumpkin lineages look lopsided. The male x Pumpkins don't have that affect, but then, they have a similar outline to the original sprite. Ditto on the male horses, though I really wish that he would be shifted forward a bit to get rid of the dead space in his tile.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[pederino]

The Nilia female's arms are now obviously longer than her neck... her proportions look creepy, more Cavern Lurker, or actually, Slenderman like than pygmy like. Just imagine her stading... that tiny body on those overly long limbs... On the contrary, the male is nothing like that... they don't match.

 

While I appreciate very much that the female has a neck that fits the male's, it still bothers me a lot that her limbs are WAY TOO LONG and much longer than male's. If only that could be fixed too...

Yes, I concur. Now that the neck is much shorter, the limbs look very long, specially when compared to those of the male (not that the 2 should have the same body ratio, but one would expect that, even if one is larger, because they are of the same species). But overall is much better than before, because that neck was very pointy and squared at the base before... But since I do not make lineages or care for pygmies all that much, it doesnt affect me all that much; so I am very happy with it.

Edited October 10, 2015 by pederino

[IvoryRaven15]

These updates are really snappy looking! I love it! They're really cleaned up and beautiful! Many thanks to the hard working spriters who worked on these.

[Lady_DragonRider]

Pygmies are different, but it's a good difference. I'm going to love them. Adore the Holly update. They look lovely, definitely different, but still retain the feel of the old.

 

The horse dragon is too busy. I think it looks silly, like a clown.

[Xili_Rem]

Oh the female Nilia looks lovely now! Thank-you so much to the spriter for fixing her poor neck, she looks just wonderful~ I'm in the boat of "will miss the old sprite" but now I'm excited to see the new shinies that will be shared with us c:

 

And maybe the Encyclopedia could have an "This was the old sprite" section added to it for the updated ones, so that the old sprites can still have a place where people can see them, even if not collect them?

[walkinslow]

Oh, the original Nilia sprite was removed from the encyclopedia. What a shame.

[Ribombee]

Ooh, the Nilia female is SO much better now! I don't mind the disproportionately long limbs at all, as there are a lot of animals with similar proportions. In fact, I think she is pretty darn adorable now. They look pretty cute with magelights, though magelights still have the problem of being bigger than most every other pygmy in the lineage view. (Silly things don't know they are supposed to be small, but it's okay, I love their chub).

Edited October 10, 2015 by harlequinraven

[NotBambi]

The Nilia female's arms are now obviously longer than her neck... her proportions look creepy, more Cavern Lurker, or actually, Slenderman like than pygmy like. Just imagine her stading... that tiny body on those overly long limbs... On the contrary, the male is nothing like that... they don't match.

 

While I appreciate very much that the female has a neck that fits the male's, it still bothers me a lot that her limbs are WAY TOO LONG and much longer than male's. If only that could be fixed too...

Yeah... and the Nilia's big toe should be fixed too...

 

Edited October 10, 2015 by NotBambi

[azila]

Nice! I especially look how wild and untamed the male Horse sprite looks now- it really drives home that they're not your typical 'horses', and any who make that mistake are gonna get their butts handed to them.

 

As pointed out, the proportions on the Nilia sprites look a tad bit strange now- but seeing as I'm not a huge pygmy collector to begin with, it doesn't really bother me as much.

 

Hollies look great as well! Glad the hang-butt issue is resolved in the new sprite.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah... and the Nilia's big toe should be fixed too...

Not yeah - and what's WRONG with its toes ?

[NotBambi]

Not yeah - and what's WRONG with its toes ?

[Nectaris]

Ironically, the male horse pose change helped this lineage of mine:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/6RrXt

 

True, I agree that it would be better if the box was shifted a bit, but the pose matches now where it really didn't before. I am going to have to get back into that lineage again.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Nectaris

[cyradis4]

Yeah... and the Nilia's big toe should be fixed too...

I think the Nilia female's legs and toes are just fine as they are, actually.

 

I'm (personally) quite glad the neck was changed, but that was a personal pose extreme dislike on my part and I dislike all dragons with necks like that.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Sextonator]

So is it really asking too much, that there be an official policy in place to put some tiny constraints on how drastic an artist can change an already-released sprite's pose?

I think it would be... if an artist cannot get the pose they want for their dragon, so goes with a simpler pose, and later the dragon is released but they've improved their skill and can create that pose, they should have the ability to change it to something they feel fits better and can share to the userbase, instead of having to be limited to that one pose that they might not like or doesn't really fit or show the dragon's personality.

 

Besides, if you can't get it the first try... why submit the dragon in the first place? Why bother submitting something if it's not something you're 100% on? Or what if you think you're 100% on it, but later down the line you realize you hate it, and before you can figure out what you want, it's released, and suddenly you're stuck with a pose you hate but you can't change it in a way that works because of the limitations.

[VixenDra]

It might not be that bad/creepy.

I'm afraid a maned wolf has fairly short legs compared to that Nilia female She's more like a maned wolf with legs as if there were 30cm high heels added to them. Also her paws are bigger than male's.

 

The long legs bothered me before the neck was shortened as well. they just creep me out and don't fit either the male nor the dragon herself^^;

 

Well, if I don't forget I might sketch out how silly these two would look like standing next to each other. I mean standing, when such things come out. In flight most of limb proportions would look fine enough - unless you're too much into drawing -like I am:P

Edited October 10, 2015 by VixenDra

[Figgetywinks]

If this was a true thing, I'd be more inclined to not actually do anything for DC, since there are times where I'll go with something that I don't necessarily like, but accept, because I cannot make something work. If that something was released before I could create something new that I could be extremely proud of, I'd want to be able to switch the images.

Yeah I actually agree with you on that point. As an artist I find that mentality highly disrespectful. The user's opinions trump artists now? Without the artists there wouldn't be any dragons on DC and is seems really rude to insinuate that their opinions aren't as important as the general userbase. Artists already have a hard enough time getting their voices heard lol

[daba555]

Terrified we're going to get silvers that look absolutely nothing like the originals. That would be a worst-case scenario.

yeah, me too. they're about my favorite dragon from the beginning, and I have worked hard to get a bunch of them, and I hate to think of all the lineages that could be ruined, for me.

 

I don't guess I'll be trying to breed again until I see what happens And I'm for sure not breeding any of the new dragons, either, it's been so time-consuming just getting them, and now there's just no point till after all these changes are done.

 

Is this an ongoing thing? Will I be sitting here a year from now not wanting to breed anymore? Well, no, because if it goes on that long I certainly won't be spending time at all, but it's just an awful thought. I'm too danged old to find something new to do

[DragonNighthowler]

Thanks, Corteo. The female looks amazing now.

[Jazeki]

Yeah I actually agree with you on that point. As an artist I find that mentality highly disrespectful. The user's opinions trump artists now? Without the artists there wouldn't be any dragons on DC and is seems really rude to insinuate that their opinions aren't as important as the general userbase. Artists already have a hard enough time getting their voices heard lol

Actually, speaking as an artist--and one that often does collaborations with others in a different artistic medium, everyone's opinion should be about equal and when it comes to instances where the art is being shared with a huge amount of people and being used by someone predominately other than the artist (as with DC), the users' opinion should be taken into account and considered.

 

I like the updates overall and have no lineages that are ruined, but the artists have a heck of a lot more say (or at least have the ability to facilitate visual changes) than many of the regular users on the site. Keep in mind at one point, artists had the ability to pull their artwork off the site entirely. Also, some of these updates are coming because artists wanted them (as opposed to users wanting them as with the nilia sprite).

 

True, DC should keep on trucking with its updates to keep users interested and more new users coming in, but there should be more input than just the artists' going into the sprite updates. True, artists cannot be expected to please everyone and users should not be expected to like everything about DC, but there should be some sort of happy medium going on. Some sprites, like the holly, golds, and perhaps silvers, did need serious updates. But others, like the nilia and horse updates, are more for artistic aesthetics than anything else.

 

I have no "horse dragon" in this race, but I can say that I am not too thrilled about the "tada, more surprise updates later" part of this announcement as they seem to be arbitrarily done. I am also not too thrilled over the sense of entitlement that some artists are expressing and some users are expressing on behalf of the artists. Many users should be a little more kind and constructive with their criticism/critique of the sprites, but the answer is not to belittle the regular users that are unhappy with changes with comments about putting more effort in or that there would be no DC without artists.

 

The artists are justifiably attached to their work, but they are not the only ones involved in bringing a sprite to the cave. There are often overlooked concept-ers as well. Mostly, it is important to remember that once a sprite is in-cave, many people become attached to the sprite. Not just the artist. If these were personal sprites for use by just the artists, any updates and changes would be fine and dandy. But they are no longer "just the artist's" sprites. When you have something that a lot of people are involved with, it is important to try and make sure there is some sort of outside input before completely changing something due to artistic license.

 

If not, there should be some sort of update somewhere on DC that indicates that artists will continue to maintain creative control over their work once it's in cave rather than control being argued over or insinuated.

 

(As always, 'you' is general.)

 

[Tawanda001]

Yeah I actually agree with you on that point. As an artist I find that mentality highly disrespectful. The user's opinions trump artists now? Without the artists there wouldn't be any dragons on DC and is seems really rude to insinuate that their opinions aren't as important as the general userbase. Artists already have a hard enough time getting their voices heard lol

But, but, but... you only have the option to change it because it's pixel art.

As an artist how do you deal with art you have created that can't be changed? Isn't dealing with that a part of being an artist?

Perfection does not exist and as an artist hopefully you will always continue to evolve and improve, but I don't think that means that an artist should go around updating things that are already in the public view.

Seriously, if every time I looked at Van Gogh's starry nights it was different because his vision of what it should be kept changing as his skill increased, I'd be super frustrated by that (ok, I know that can't really happen, but you get what I mean, right?)

 

We do have tons of stuff on the completed list that can be released, so I'm not really understanding the release of things that apparently are not 'complete' because the artist isn't truly happy with it.....

[cyradis4]

Jazeki, that was a beautiful post. It said it better than I could.

 

Cheers!

C4.