2015-09-27 - Encyclopedia Update (and more)

[Lexadin]

So has anyone else notice the sheer number of Flamingo Wyverns needed to fill the Encyclopedia? It needs at least 250 adults observed. Haven't looked for so many adults since the chickens.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This is how I feel about the Silver update. Why destroy the history of DC dragon sprites?

 

I love that old-school pixel art. I like the new style, too, but the old style has a clean, simple and charming look that is all its own. And the Silvers are a perfect embodiment of that style. I feel like the people who want to get rid of the old sprites don't appreciate the history. It reminds me of how people hate on the styles of the last decade or two... until it's time for it to be retro and cool again. But if we don't preserve the Silvers it will be too late for them.

While there are plenty of old sprites that I feel don't need to be updated, I think silvers are a special case. They are, hands down, one of the rarest dragons people can catch in the cave, second only to golds and sometimes freak cases like pink pyralspites. So it seems quite odd that these dragons, which require so much work to collect and are described as being so stunningly beautiful, are really quite derpy to look at. I've been around the cave for years, so it's not as shocking to me, but imagine how new players must feel. They collect all the common dragons, see how beautiful they are, then are so excited when they catch one of the rarest of the rares. Surely it's got to be amazing looking, right?? Except, no, the art is clearly outdated and by many standards isn't that pretty at all. I doubt players would appreciate the history of the sprite in that case enough to overcome feeling disappointed.

 

I DO really want the silvers to retain their current poses and much of their color (because, as others have said and I've said and it's pretty much beating a dead horse now but I'll say it again anyway--if the look of my many current silver lineages changes noticeably, I'm going to be MAD, even if the new sprites look gorgeous. I made lineages based on how they look pretty NOW and want them to stay that way). But if the update just refines and glorifies them instead of totally changing how the sprites look then I'll be quite pleased.

[dustpuppy]

I would be worried about the sprite update, if it wasn't for the Whiptail update. They look so much better now, without changing pose or colour. And haven't the Silvers been updated before as well? I'm not quite sure if I remember correctly.

 

I can't wait to see the Horse Dragon update, a male Horse is my first adult dragon.

[Lurhstaap]

To be perfectly honest, speaking as someone who once ran a sort of similar site, the idea that the "history of the site/sprites" is actually important enough to sacrifice having decent-looking up-to-date sprites to is ludicrous. The site's playerbase isn't entirely made up of people for whom the current silver is nostalgic. People join every single day and to many of them the silver just looks wonky and ugly. Those players matter just as much as people who've been around forever and they too deserve to have their opinions and needs considered. And for those players the "history of the site" is meaningless. All they know is they're stuck with a subpar sprite for one of the rarest and most prized dragons in the whole game, when there are caveblocker commons that look better. That is honestly not a good thing for the game as a whole. The health of the whole game needs to be considered, not just nostalgia. I'm sorry if that's upsetting to some people, but that's reality.

 

And quite frankly, on another note altogether, speaking as someone who's been playing since '09? I have ALWAYS hated the silvers. I have ALWAYS thought they were embarrassingly bad to be so rare and prized. The actual design of the dragons is fine, but the execution is godawful. (And mind you, I say that as an artist myself. I have produced plenty of godawful work myself. I'm not trying to dump on the artist. It happens. ) They don't even look silver, they look gray, and the anatomy problems are really, really painful. It only gets worse looking at them again and again over time, especially now that I own a decent number of them. The new gold is SO much better than the original gold that I can't begin to imagine why people would be so anxious over a new silver, personally. I grant there is definitely the chance that the new will be worse than the old, but I don't think that's very likely given the massive amount of spriting skill we have around the site these days.

 

FWIW, yes, the original pre-Fog dragons were all stolen from various sources and had to be replaced due to copyright. TJ I guess didn't realize at the time that pictures on the Internet are not necessarily free for all to use any way they want (which again is not a slam at TJ - that's an extremely common misconception, even among people you'd think would know better.)

Edited September 29, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[Moranna]

TCA, I bow to your "quick sketch" skills! And you expressed my viewpoint beautifully.

 

I like dimorphism, I'd like to see more.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

People join every single day and to many of them the silver just looks wonky and ugly. Those players matter just as much as people who've been around forever and they too deserve to have their opinions and needs considered. And for those players the "history of the site" is meaningless. All they know is they're stuck with a subpar sprite for one of the rarest and most prized dragons in the whole game, when there are caveblocker commons that look better.

 

[...]

 

The new gold is SO much better than the original gold that I can't begin to imagine why people would be so anxious over a new silver, personally. I grant there is definitely the chance that the new will be worse than the old, but I don't think that's very likely given the massive amount of spriting skill we have around the site these days.

I agree with you on the above point. However, the reason people are worried about a change as drastic as the old gold / new gold is because a lot of people have things hung up on how the silvers look /right now./ I think the silver sprites themselves look pretty bad, but I have spent a ton of time and work making lineages like http://dragcave.net/lineage/tMCPy and http://dragcave.net/lineage/0Ym7V which look great right now because of the /current/ colors and poses. That's why I really hope the new update keeps the current pose and feel while just bringing the art itself into a glorious new beauty standard. I actually really didn't like the old golds (they were so flat and... cave painting looking), so the new gold update was 100% awesome for me, because I got a great new sprite to make lineages on instead of feeling I'd lost anything. But I DO have a lot of love associated with the current silvers, despite their derpiness, so I hope for a more mild change than a total overhaul.

[Lurhstaap]

I agree with you on the above point. However, the reason people are worried about a change as drastic as the old gold / new gold is because a lot of people have things hung up on how the silvers look /right now./ I think the silver sprites themselves look pretty bad, but I have spent a ton of time and work making lineages like http://dragcave.net/lineage/tMCPy and http://dragcave.net/lineage/0Ym7V which look great right now because of the /current/ colors and poses. That's why I really hope the new update keeps the current pose and feel while just bringing the art itself into a glorious new beauty standard. I actually really didn't like the old golds (they were so flat and... cave painting looking), so the new gold update was 100% awesome for me, because I got a great new sprite to make lineages on instead of feeling I'd lost anything. But I DO have a lot of love associated with the current silvers, despite their derpiness, so I hope for a more mild change than a total overhaul.

That sort of thing, what the update will actually look like, is a different issue IMO as to whether to have an update at all or not. In that respect I do agree that it would be best for the existing pose and design to be preserved as much as possible. But I do want to note that the actual design of the new golds is basically identical to that of the old golds. They have the same ridgy tails and pointy shoulders and other details of design. What's really different is the pose and the style of the sprite. The poses of the old golds were part of the problem though - they looked rather awkward and painful - whereas the pose of the current silver isn't problematical in itself. So I don't think the pose of the new silver is bound to change or even necessarily likely to. In truth there are only so many ways to pose an Eastern in a 100x100 pixel box. So I wouldn't worry too much about that part.

 

Also, given that the artist(s) doing the work are part of the DC community, I'm sure they're aware of this controversy and are taking these issues into account. I'm quite sure they'll do their best to give the sprite the quality it deserves while maintaining as many of the original's non-problematical features as possible.

[Melatte]

I agree with you on the above point. However, the reason people are worried about a change as drastic as the old gold / new gold is because a lot of people have things hung up on how the silvers look /right now./ I think the silver sprites themselves look pretty bad, but I have spent a ton of time and work making lineages like http://dragcave.net/lineage/tMCPy and http://dragcave.net/lineage/0Ym7V which look great right now because of the /current/ colors and poses. That's why I really hope the new update keeps the current pose and feel while just bringing the art itself into a glorious new beauty standard. I actually really didn't like the old golds (they were so flat and... cave painting looking), so the new gold update was 100% awesome for me, because I got a great new sprite to make lineages on instead of feeling I'd lost anything. But I DO have a lot of love associated with the current silvers, despite their derpiness, so I hope for a more mild change than a total overhaul.

Those lineages are lovely. (: I think that it's nice that so many people feel an attachment to the lineages they've created and the characters they've made with the current sprites, but I think that even if the silver sprites are given a complete overhaul it doesn't mean you have to lose the lineages you've created. Most anything can be reserved in picture form, so just take a quick screenshot. That way, even if the new sprites don't look as nice in the lineage, you can still remember what you created and that it was lovely. Most things in life aren't permanent, so if you're worried they might change just take a picture and then nothing can replace what they were in that moment.

[marshmonster]

The only constant in the universe is change, and I for one am glad to see that stays the same.

 

Totally excited about the upgrades, updates, and uppercuts. Dragcave is so much more exciting than it was the last time I played. There's always something new to discover!

[PixelShark]

I will be excited to see the sprite updates. Greatly appreciated, TJ!

[Clya]

When are these updates going to happen? I'm dying of the wait!

 

 

I can't wait to see the Nilias and Horses. And I wonder what else is in store

Edited September 29, 2015 by Clya

[FireMercury]

excited to see the new sprite updates!

[Dragon_Arbock]

I don't have a mobile phone, so I wouldn't know, but is there any reason the old Gold sprite is displayed in one of the preview images for the changes to the mobile version?

 

I ask because while people are over here freaking out about the Silvers being replaced and as to whether or not it's a good idea.. maybe we're going to have the choice to display which versions of the sprites we like better?

[Mokastar712]

When are you adding the Lunar Herald encyclopedia page?

[Tehya Faye]

I don't have a mobile phone, so I wouldn't know, but is there any reason the old Gold sprite is displayed in one of the preview images for the changes to the mobile version?

 

I ask because while people are over here freaking out about the Silvers being replaced and as to whether or not it's a good idea.. maybe we're going to have the choice to display which versions of the sprites we like better?

I don't think it's indicative of anything, but I could be wrong. The dragon itself is actually an Ultraviolet.

[AGYK]

Case by case as in each individual lineage, then yes. If it were by scroll then no. One of the things that bugged me about the change to the golds was the huge (to me) difference in color, going from a more brassy or bronze color to something much more yellow. I don't feel like they were interchangeable at all for most lineages. Which is one of the reasons I worry for the silvers. If the soft gray glow is changed to a hard metallic shine it will definitely affect the feel of some lineages.

Not by scroll, exactly. More of a user-by-user global sprite replace - so you'd have the option to make all gold adults (yours, other peoples', the wilderness golds, etc.) show the old sprites, etc. It's something I might be able to hack together, but I'm not going through the effort of making such a thing, testing it, and getting it approved to post unless people actually want it. Right now it doesn't seem anyone cares enough either way.

[Odeen]

I don't have a mobile phone, so I wouldn't know, but is there any reason the old Gold sprite is displayed in one of the preview images for the changes to the mobile version?

 

I ask because while people are over here freaking out about the Silvers being replaced and as to whether or not it's a good idea.. maybe we're going to have the choice to display which versions of the sprites we like better?

First, answer: T.J. can make his dragons look like anything he likes. That doesn't mean that old golds are ever making a return of any kind.

 

Second, Birdzgoboom is at work and unable to comment but she is currently flailing excitedly at me about your Roy avatar and wanted me to post saying as much.

[Xorath]

The only constant in the universe is change, and I for one am glad to see that stays the same.

 

Totally excited about the upgrades, updates, and uppercuts. Dragcave is so much more exciting than it was the last time I played. There's always something new to discover!

Agree.

 

I will be pleased to see every new things on the site.

[Dragon_Arbock]

First, answer: T.J. can make his dragons look like anything he likes. That doesn't mean that old golds are ever making a return of any kind.

 

Second, Birdzgoboom is at work and unable to comment but she is currently flailing excitedly at me about your Roy avatar and wanted me to post saying as much.

Yeah, I know he can, but it just seemed odd to use another old rare sprite in the preview.. but I might be reading into it too far.

 

Also, is she really? Thanks~

[Taintedtamer]

Can't wait to see the updated sprites!

[Zoa]

yay! thank you!

[Nerei]

The site's been lagging a bit more for me than usual. Maybe an update is coming soon?

[ShorahNagi]

The site's been lagging a bit more for me than usual. Maybe an update is coming soon?

I've not had any lag today far as I can tell - but that is a possibility (though doesn't TJ usually warn of updates - especially if they could lead to site downtime?)

 

Anyhow - I'm hoping the Horse Update happens sooner rather than later *love those dragons* - and while I'm glad some breeds got encyclopedia updates...I'd rather see ALL breeds added to it first before updates/changes are made to those already in it (as there are some breeds that aren't even in it as just a display of sprites [Greater Spotted Drakes, Magelight Pygmy, Hooktalon, and Striped River Dragons. I think there might be one or two others *excluding the new Lunar Heralds*, but these come to mind instantly])

[LadyNightshade]

For the people concerned about the (silver) sprite updates...

 

I was going to refrain from posting it, but perhaps this thread should ease some worries?

 

I don't know that any of the sprites on that thread will actually be the updated sprite, but there is always a possibility

 

(Read: Possible spoilers, link whited out for those who don't want to risk being possibly spoiled.)

 

 

Silver revamp thread

 

 

 

 

P.S. if anyone needs to click on some Tangars for the encyclopedia info, I have a bajillion of them

Edited September 29, 2015 by Lady_Nightfox

[MetalheadStevie]

Oh man, I'm really excited about this! I can't wait to see the new Silvers and male Horses.

 

(Also, I've been on DC since like February I think of this year but am not active in the community. What's "the Fog" and "Mod Mayhem"? Was looking at stuff about old sprites on the DC wiki.)

 

Also, does retroactive mean currently existing Silvers will also be affected? Or will it just be newer ones?

Edited September 30, 2015 by MetalheadStevie