2015-09-27 - Encyclopedia Update (and more)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Because you are losing the old one! It's a loss, not a gain, no matter how the new sprite looks like. We are losing the silver dragons! Some other dragon will be in its place and the beautiful silver dragon will be gone forever!

 

If you still don't understand, I have no idea what to say to clarify to you.

Nah, we could just be getting a very nice new version that is still our silvers--just as magnificent as they were always meant to be.

 

Like you, I enjoy the current silvers. I have even more than you, and the vast majority of them are named, described, and bred. I treasure them. HOWEVER... I also sigh a little bit every time I look at these dragons that I portray within my cave as being nearly divinely beautiful and instead see crooked necks and broken knee caps. I wish the silvers would look as majestic as they are described and as I picture them in my head.

 

However, this only applies if the new sprites are quite similar to the old ones, in terms of pose and color and such. If not, most of my lineages will be ruined, because I planned them based on the CURRENT looks, and I will be quite annoyed. Even if the new sprites outshine every other in the cave.

 

To put it simply... I understand why others are concerned, and am concerned myself, but I'm going to just hope for the best and will only join in the panicked shrieking if I feel the change really warrants one.

[LadyNightshade]

 

I didn't see the thread with the options for the update, so it's a huge uncertainty for me.

 

I'm assuming it's been closed and deleted now that the new sprites are happening.

 

 

Which, I wish they would just happen, I think the longer it drags out the more people will be upset. Just get it done and over with....

 

 

So we can focus on a new horse dragon sprite 8D

Edited September 29, 2015 by Lady_Nightfox

[Tehya Faye]

I'm pretty thrilled about the horse update too! I love horses, though I haven't gotten around to doing much with them yet.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm assuming it's been closed and deleted now that the new sprites are happening.

 

 

Which, I wish they would just happen, I think the longer it drags out the more people will be upset. Just get it done and over with....

 

 

So we can focus on a new horse dragon sprite 8D

No, it's still up there (it was closed AGES ago, when TJ said there was no need for it.)

 

I am NOT posting a link

[TCA]

Because you are losing the old one! It's a loss, not a gain, no matter how the new sprite looks like. We are losing the silver dragons! Some other dragon will be in its place and the beautiful silver dragon will be gone forever!

 

If you still don't understand, I have no idea what to say to clarify to you.

Hey, I know you're concerned, but hear me out for a second here.

 

Take a look at this picture I just doodled up for this. What is it?

Your first thought, I'm willing to bet, was "That's a male Silver dragon."

 

Not "That's Silver fanart" or "That's a dragon that looks like a Silver"- "That's a male Silver dragon."

 

It's clearly not a piece of art that ever was or ever will be used in the Cave in any capacity. But it's instantly recognizable as long as you're familiar with the art that is. Why? Because two different pictures of the same thing are the same thing. Let's take another example.

 

This is a Pikachu. This art hasn't been used in a Pokemon game in decades!

 

Would you claim this is no longer a Pikachu, and Pikachu is gone forever? I personally don't like this sprite as much as some of them that came before it. It's okay to not like a newer image of the same concept, but that doesn't mean they should still use the sprite from Yellow in the newest games.

 

It's perfectly acceptable to be apprehensive that the newer art for the Silvers won't fit how you envision them. If they don't, it's okay to be disappointed and sad.

 

But it's a little silly to claim that we're losing the Silvers forever.

[LadyNightshade]

No, it's still up there (it was closed AGES ago, when TJ said there was no need for it.)

 

I am NOT posting a link

Oh wow I didn't realize it was closed that long ago :'D

 

But seriously, if the new sprites are anything like the sprites posted in the tweaked/polished portion of that thread, then I'm sure everyone will be quite happy.

[silver_tiger]

Personally I'm excited about all of it. I love dimorphism and I wish every dragon in the cave had it, and I love Silvers. Period. I don't mind what they look like as long as they are what their name says they are--that is, Silver.

 

In any case, I'm going to wait to see what they look like before I decide what to think about them.

[Shokomon]

If you had a pet bird which had a crooked foot and you came back one day to find someone had replaced it with one with perfect feet - would you be thrilled ?

 

OK that may be a bit OTT. If you came home to find your parents had redecorated your room because of a crack in the wall that needed spackling, and had changed the colour - would you be delighted ?

 

If you have something you love, you don't want it changed. Then it ceases to be that which you loved. The whiptails barely changed. If I were sure the silvers would change that little - fine. But the golds still upset me, and if I had ever had any CB old pinks, that would have upset me too. I still WANT THEM.

I don't know about you, but if my pet bird had crooked feet, and someone paid for the surgery to fix its feet so it could hop around and perch like things like a normal bird, but no longer be in pain from standing on malformed feet, I'd be pretty happy, EXTREMELY so.

 

I mean if my pet had serious health problems and malformations and someone swooped in and fixed the animal issues, so that they could live normal lives, I'd be ecstatic. Have you seen the video of the girl seeing her dog after getting surgery for it to walk?. She may have loved that animal, flaws and all, before the surgery, but afterwards, I have no doubt she loved it all the same and was happy to see its quality of life improve.

 

Now for the room thing, it depends. I'd be annoyed at someone rearranging my room without my permission and repainting. But, I'd be thankful to my parents who spent money and time to have it all fixed and cleaned up. I probably wouldn't give a care if they asked for permission first and my input. However, this example depends on how attached you are to your space.

 

These, however, aren't equivalent to what you are trying to get people to understand about feelings people have over sprites that they did not make and that they do not own the rights to in a game they do not control. Everyone has a right to like they sprites they like, and to dislike those sprites being changed, and they have a right to complain about it. However, to say that is comparable to having your personal space invaded and changed without permission or getting free surprise corrective surgery on your pet, is a fallacy at best.

 

Now, this isn't to say you aren't right. People sometimes don't want the things/ones they love to be changed, and understandably object to such changea. However, the opposite is true as well that sometimes people will accept and want changes for their loved ones/things if they view it as a benefit to the loved one/thing. So, we should accept both opinions, and not shoot them down.

 

But, everyone here has to understand that in the end, TJ and the artists are the ones who have the say over the sprites here. If the artists decides they don't like their old art anymore, or TJ decides that a sprite update will help improve the game, they are well within their rights, as without them, we wouldn't have any of these sprites or Dragon Cave itself.

 

You can try to dissuade them, but in the end, it's their decision, whether it be the best for the Cave or the artists themselves.

 

And that's my piece on the sprite update.

[zaverxi]

Hey, I know you're concerned, but hear me out for a second here.

 

Take a look at this picture I just doodled up for this. What is it?

Your first thought, I'm willing to bet, was "That's a male Silver dragon."

 

Not "That's Silver fanart" or "That's a dragon that looks like a Silver"- "That's a male Silver dragon."

 

It's clearly not a piece of art that ever was or ever will be used in the Cave in any capacity. But it's instantly recognizable as long as you're familiar with the art that is. Why? Because two different pictures of the same thing are the same thing. Let's take another example.

 

This is a Pikachu. This art hasn't been used in a Pokemon game in decades!

 

Would you claim this is no longer a Pikachu, and Pikachu is gone forever? I personally don't like this sprite as much as some of them that came before it. It's okay to not like a newer image of the same concept, but that doesn't mean they should still use the sprite from Yellow in the newest games.

 

It's perfectly acceptable to be apprehensive that the newer art for the Silvers won't fit how you envision them. If they don't, it's okay to be disappointed and sad.

 

But it's a little silly to claim that we're losing the Silvers forever.

 

 

And then I hate TCA forever for being not only a fantastic artist but a fantastic FAST artist.

 

 

'Just doodled up' my

 

But yeah, I think this tiny fact needs to be repeated:

 

 

THIS IS A GAME. No need to riot because a sprite which is in drastic need of anatomy fixes is going to get updated. I disliked the 'old golds' because they looked like a cardboard cutout of a dragon prettified with glowy shiny glitter. I like the new golds so much better because they actually look like dragons with muscles and shading etc.

 

As for what Birdz says, I agree 100%.

 

Personally I can't wait for the FF7 remake to come out because while the story was fantastic, the summoning and materia systems were amazing, along with music, monster designs, character development, etc etc etc, the graphics SUCKED.

 

Am I going to get rid of my original FF7 game? No.

 

I still have all my pokemon games. Every single one. Even my Gold and Silver games that have long since had that internal battery die and therefore it's impossible to save a game anymore.

 

I even played within the last year my horribly glitched Red version, which was glitched because once upon a time I was dumb and actually caught MissingNo but I couldn't bear to restart it because I had gotten Mew through my GameShark.

 

Anyway, tl;dr, people are getting upset over something trivial. They're hating on the fact that silvers are getting changed without even knowing what the change is yet. Arceus forbid the change is something you instantly adore. But nope, it'll get hated on principle, just like golds, regardless of whether you actually hate the sprite or just hate what it represents, which is change.

 

 

Although in hindsight, I hope everyone hates silvers, because that means the value will go down and they'll be easier to catch.

[HeatherMarie]

...... Okay, TheCompleteAnimorph just made my opinion do a complete one-eighty with that explanation. Thank you, for that.

[Fuzzbucket]

I did not, and would not, say the artists do not have the right to change their art. Though we don't actually know who is doing the sprites - I believe the artist of the silvers is long gone, but in that thread I did argue that if the original artist wanted to change them I would, albeit reluctantly, go along with it (see under Lyth and Frills !) But why can we not keep the samples we had before they decided to do that ? It is an invasion of the lineages I created, if you are pulling that analogy...

 

And if someone operated on my pet without my permission I would actually be VERY hacked off, even if they paid for it.

[LadyNightshade]

Although in hindsight, I hope everyone hates silvers, because that means the value will go down and they'll be easier to catch.

 

Yes so much. Great plan.

 

 

Sidenote, the Nilia and horse dragons are getting updates, but it does say "Not limited to"

 

Speculation? Other dragons get dimorphism? More shading fixes?

 

 

 

 

P.S. According to the old locked revamp thread, the artist of the old sprite was OK with a revamp (and even submitted an idea sprite for the revamp)

Edited September 29, 2015 by Lady_Nightfox

[weaseldale]

 

Yes so much. Great plan.

 

 

Sidenote, the Nilia and horse dragons are getting updates, but it does say "Not limited to"

 

Speculation? Other dragons get dimorphism? More shading fixes?

 

 

 

 

P.S. According to the old locked revamp thread, the artist of the old sprite was OK with a revamp (and even submitted an idea sprite for the revamp)

Would every non-holiday/special dragon getting dimorphism be too much? Maybe not speculation so much as wishful thinking!

 

That being said, I would absolutely LOVE if Crimson Flares also got dimorphism. Whiptails are also dear to me so those would be great too.

[Tehya Faye]

I did not, and would not, say the artists do not have the right to change their art. Though we don't actually know who is doing the sprites - I believe the artist of the silvers is long gone, but in that thread I did argue that if the original artist wanted to change them I would, albeit reluctantly, go along with it (see under Lyth and Frills !) But why can we not keep the samples we had before they decided to do that ? It is an invasion of the lineages I created, if you are pulling that analogy...

 

And if someone operated on my pet without my permission I would actually be VERY hacked off, even if they paid for it.

That adds more sprites to the game that new users just can't get. Aren't a lot of people sad that they missed out on getting the Frills and Bright Pinks? They'd be unhappy about missing out on the old Silvers, and on top of that the new Silvers would likely be in such high demand that people who prefer the new art to the old just won't be able to get them. I know that I personally would just get more and more resentful of my Silvers if they were ever-present symbols of why I can't have the updated ones.

[Wahya]

I like you ! Not least on the Mona Lisa thing. And as for Michelangelo's David....

 

There is something to be said for retaining history alongside new things. Westminster Abbey is not exactly functionally ideal - but - well, wanna rebuild ?

My sentiments exactly.

[Renhart]

Awesome! This is exactly what I wanted instead of a new release. To those of you who don't think the Silver sprites are outdated, try comparing them to the Silver Shimmer-scales. Edited September 29, 2015 by Booo

[Amberfly]

I'm really excited for the sprite updates. I like the current silver sprites well enough, but I'm confident that the new ones will be beautiful. Ditto for the hollies. Dimorphism is a wonderful thing and I can't wait to see the new dimorphic horse and nilia sprites. In terms of the "not limited to" condition, I really think that a lot of the older breeds would benefit from sprite updates, even if it's just shading tweaks. Dorsals would probably top my list if I had to pick just one.

[NotBambi]

I was beyond ecstatic when I got my own Holly. But I know that with today's standards, the Holly isn't exactly up to snuff. 2007 was a pretty long time ago in internet/technology years. DC gets new players every day. Most of those new people just don't have the same attachment to those older sprites the same way that older players do. It's not a bad thing. It's just how things go. Updating a sprite, much like remaking a game, opens up the possibility for a renewed and expanded fanbase. Which I honestly think is a really great thing.

I think I can understand why older players do not like change. I think I can understand nostalgia even if that means keeping around sprites with weird anatomy. I understand a bit less the bird part, in particular because what is best for the bird should be taken in consideration ***. In the same way, TJ is taking in consideration what is best for DC.

 

 

 

 

***Cats instead of birds... in the past a few queens that were nominally owned by someone else (but were depending on me for their food and a safe area for their dozen of kittens a year) got sent to the vet and spayed. Happens...

[helix9]

I think I can understand why older players do not like change. I think I can understand nostalgia even if that means keeping around sprites with weird anatomy. I understand a bit less the bird part, in particular because what is best for the bird should be taken in consideration ***. In the same way, TJ is taking in consideration what is best for DC.

If people really wanted nostalgia...there's always the pre-fog dragons from waaay back when.

 

 

Recognize any?

[Espio_Chameleon]

Sweet!!! Looking forward to the mobile update...and of course all the amazing sprite updates too! *cheers*

 

Oh and can't wait for the Halloween event too!!! *dances*

[egwenna]

Thanks for the encyclopedia news. The word of a update to silver dragons has left me with what feels like rocks in the pit of my stomach. I wasn't happy with the majority of the proposed sprites in the thread where it was discussed. I really hope my beloved silvers aren't wrecked. Please don't turn them into gaudy westernized things.

Yeah... this... ^^

 

It'll be nice to get the encyclopedia update, and I'm curious about the Horse morph, but I remember the thread with silver proposals. I think there was one that was ok and I thought the rest went from 'meh' to awful. Since the changes are retroactive, if it's one of the ugly ones, all the lineage projects will be wrecked.

[purplehaze]

If people really wanted nostalgia...there's always the pre-fog dragons from waaay back when.

But very few of us were around then to be nostalgic about those. And besides they had to be replaced because of copyright issues, not artistic reasons, from what I understand.

Edited September 29, 2015 by purplehaze

[Melatte]

Recognize any?

I must thank you for bringing up these old sprite pictures because I think it is a clear reminder of how nothing is just going to disappear entirely and people really need to remember that.

 

 

Just because a sprite will no longer be on the main site does not mean it is simply gone. It can be pulled up and looked at any time you feel like looking at it. If you ever become attached to something, just take a quick screenshot. I have many screenshots from events that I enjoyed and various other things that have happened on the site that I don't want to forget. Be thankful that we have the technology and that we don't have to just count on our memories (which ultimately are not very good).

[626lavaheart]

lol as a spriter I see everything that's wrong with the silver sprite.

 

I can assure you guys the shading and linework are defiantly not all that great...

 

Its shading has pretty low of contrast which isn't the most flattering for shiny dergs, and there's lots of straight lines and a lot of kinks in the tails and necks.. plus on top of that there's some pretty wonky anatomy going on in a couple of places.

 

It definitely would not make it to today's DR standards.

[Finduilas]

Updated silvers, huh? Nice. Originally they were my favorite sprite when I first joined the site, but I do agree they could use a facelift now, surrounded as they are by so many other, shinier sprites. I will miss the old ones a bit though.