2016 Presidential Election

[Daxillionyx]

No one's opinion is getting silenced.

 

 

Bird, I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately I cannot take part in that kind of mentality. I'm too terrified of Trump's affect on the nation, seeing as he's never been a politicIan prior to this moment and has no idea what the job entails. Is Hillary a terrible person? Maybe, I don't know. I don't think she's the mastermind behind all of the issues she's been accused of, though. But at least she knows what the job is like, and I have more faith that she'll appoint and uphold our Justices better than Trump. At this point I'm just voting blue because it's the safest for me and mine.

This exactly.

 

And yes, I say that, especially in this election, if you vote for a third-party candidate, you throw your vote away just as much as someone who doesn't vote at all. This country needs to make sure Trump does not win, and I had to get over myself and what special grievances I had against Hillary and decide that I wanted to help do what's best for this country, because that's my duty as a citizen.

 

I won't vote for a candidate that obviously has no chance against the big candidates, and I refuse to just let Trump win without doing my part to make sure that doesn't happen. In any other election, I might exercise the choice to seek out third parties (for the fun of it, because they just don't win anymore). But this election is too important for me to throw my vote to someone who has no chance. I just hope the majority of people who are undecided and/or independent take up their duty and help America avoid making of of the biggest mistakes ever. Trump WILL win if people throw their votes away.

[birdzgoboom]

NotBambi:

 

The quote of mine from The Rolling Stone in 2011 once again he said he was for the abortion rights of women, so he's held that belief for much longer than just the year of 2016. He even says it in the very first sentence of the quote, that he supports the right to choose up until the viability of the fetus, which falls in line with the ruling of Casey vs Planned Parenthood. If the law of the land fits his personal views on the matter (which he upheld as governor of New Mexico, mind), what reason would there be for him to dislike it?

 

He also is against excessive limitations on abortion rights (even if they are imposed by individual states)-- for example, Texas House Bill 2, which he thought was an "affront to women's rights," due to how restrictive it was.

 

On The Issues has a good TL;DR of all his opinions, as well as I Side With. (For ISW, clicking on the little "S" next to each opinion gives you the source.)

Edited July 27, 2016 by birdzgoboom

[hazeh]

Also, I don't understand all of this hate on politicians who change their opinion/belief later down the line. Isn't that what we want them to do?? Do people really want those types to stay rooted in those discriminatory viewpoints? If, for some reason, such politician did a one-eighty after election and implemented things against their "enlightened" views, they'd be written off as a liar and never re-elected again.

 

This is discussion for the US Presidential Election. Any other discussion is considered off-topic. If you have any issues or concerns about how this is handled, you are free to PM me or another moderator.

 

 

Now that this has been reviewed, I am re-opening this topic. Consider this a thread warning: This thread is for US Presidential Election discussion only. I will warn anyone who derails the discussion otherwise or continues previous conversations that have been warned for.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[TheScorpionKing]

I cannot vote for someone I do not like. Why don't you like him.? I like Clinton more than I like Trump, he's said nothing about anything right now, about how he'll change what's happing now.

I should have said that I don't like

the way that Donald Trump says things:

too loud, too brash, too out there.

 

I don't vote for the person I like the most

I vote for the person who will do the best job,

or who is at least capable of doing the job.

 

I'm not voting for Donald Trump

as much as I am voting against Hillary Clinton.

 

I'm less bothered by what Donald Trump says

than I am about what Hillary Clinton does,

and the mess she made while Secretary of State.

[SlyFox]

Although I'm half a heartbeat away from not voting ever again (believing that our votes really don't count at all), I'll be voting for Trump this election. I'm registered as a Republican, but I've long lost any respect for that party. I'm just too busy to go down and get that changed. I'd probably be more properly described as an independent conservative.

[Kith]

I'm registered as a Republican, but I've long lost any respect for that party. I'm just too busy to go down and get that changed.

Actually, you can vote for whoever you like regardless of which party you're officially registered with. Since you consider yourself an independent conservative, it sounds like you might want to go the Gary Johnson route, since he was a Republican governor for awhile before running as Libertarian.

[Obscure_Trash]

As I've said before, I usually prefer voting 3rd party. However, I know that doing so is more of a statement than a vote. And I've found a good post that explains a bit of why.

 

Let me explain why they say a vote for a 3rd candidate or not voting for Hillary is voting for Trump:

The United States does not have a direct democratic voting system. We have an indirect system called the electoral college.The electoral college is  a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens.

To win the Presidency you do not need a popular majority; you need the majority of votes of the electoral college.

The way the college works is that the two parties select the delegates that will serve as electors, and the electors pledge to vote for the candidates, depending on their party affiliation, of either the democratic or republican party. So, when people go vote, they are actually going to vote for electors that have pledged to vote for a specific party/candidate.

Each state is allocated a different number of electoral seats, and so not every state is truly worth the same given that every candidate is racing to secure 270 seats (minimum required to win the election).

What’s important to note is that the electoral college is a winner take all vote in 48 of the 50 states, meaning that the candidate with the higher number of votes in a given state will get ALL of the seats. This is one of the reasons why third party candidates are a wasted vote.

Based on our country’s history, most States around the country have already been defined as either red or blue, because the majority of the people that go and vote in said states tend to stick to either one or the other no matter who is on the ballot. It becomes a bit of loyalism to a party or, more accurately, just a strong distaste towards the ideals of the other party. However, there are a few swing states that really define the elections, for each election cycle they tend to change depending on who is on the ballot.

Now, third party candidates, which is often used as a protest vote, have never worked because a) they are not written into every state ballot, meaning that there are states that don’t offer these candidates given that they did not qualify have rarely gotten enough votes to even be up for electoral seats c) ALWAYS end up hurting one of the two candidates, for, in close runs, they can make one of the other two candidates lose a SWING STATE.

This is what happened with Ralph Nader in 2000. The votes that he received hurt Gore in certain states, particularly florida, which led to Bush winning as he had the majority of electoral seats even though he did not have the majority in popular vote.

Now, in the latest poll, it shows that the race between Hillary and trump is very close, and, when third party candidates are involved, it actually HURTS Hillary’s chances.

Now, if it hurts her enough, Trump can obtain the much needed swing states. If he gets over 270 seats (and thus more than hillary) he WILL win the goddamn election.

This is not a year to vote for a third party candidate. This is not a man you want in the oval office of the most powerful country in the world.

There is nothing NOTHING you can pull out that will make Trump the lesser of two evils.

We live in a country that has a two party system, so yes, a vote for a 3rd party candidate or a non-vote IS actually a vote for trump.

 

Links may contain profanity (some do).

Look, I am not a fan of the whole lesser evil dichotomy. I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton. She is a white feminist who has victim blamed a 12 year old rape/pedophile victim, supports islamophobic proposals by Dems, and has a history of antiblackness. I do not agree with a lot of her platforms. I am never going to defend what she has done and said, and I really wish Sanders had managed the nom. But he didn't. However, Trump did, and I am terrified of Trump. Anyone who is not a cishet white male should be terrified of Trump, who is an actual facist.

 

Links may contain profanity (many do).

Masterlist of why Trump is a literal facist

"Make America Great Again" is just racist/xenophobic/islamophobic/homophobic/transphobic bigotry

George Takei, who personally experienced American Japanese internment camps, compares Trump's policies to his past

Trump's foreign policy basically amounts to "use nukes"

Donald Trump quotes Mussolini, praises Saddam Hussein

Trump Rallies are full of racist slurs and xenophobia

Trump has been accused in a court of law of raping at least three women, threatens to kill the vics/survivorsif they talk, Google his ex-wife's graphic account of her rape (not linked for how graphic it is). "Ivana Trump rape" should bring it right up.

Trump's blatant misogyny

Trump is a-okay with incest jokes about him and his daughter -

Trump rally notes - crowd says "gays deserved it" shortly after Orlando shooting

Trump's response to the racist/homophobic Orlando shooting is to blame Muslims, appreciates being commended on his islamophobia

Rampant antiblackness at Trump rallies, Ex 2, contains antiblack and gendered slurs, rampant islamophobia at Trump rallies, rampant xenophobia at rallies

Brown Americans not even allowed to be journalists around Trump - thrown out of interview

Trump's money not where his mouth is - gave a bumper sticker to promote himself rather than a donation to help homeless vets

Trump does not plan on honoring current trade agreements and mutual defense treaties

-->-donald-trump-just-encouraged' target='_blank'>Trump encourages Russia to hack the US government

Trump has catchphrases instead of plans, throws peaceful protesters out of rallies

Trump continues to re-tweet neo-nazis

Former KKK grand wizard David Duke supports Trump and Trump's platform, says not voting trump is treason to white heritage

Trump's platform encouraging racist/xenophobic school bullying

Trump's supporters a-okay with ableism, racism, and antisemitism

Trump can't win Latinx vote so registers fake Latinx social media accounts to make it seem like he can

Trump was raised by a Klansman

Trump's son calls a torture method just frathouse shenanigans

Trump spouts misogyny and bathroom humor to "discredit" Clinton

 

This 10 year old child sums up the basic mistakes of his whole campaign

 

So yeah. I get not wanting to vote Clinton, but more than that, I desperately do not want Trump to win this presidency.

 

 

I totally and completely 100% understand if you do not like, do not want to, will not, and/or are not going to vote Hillary Clinton, particularly if you are black. But I do personally think things will be 10x worse under Trump than Clinton.

 

I hate our system. I am not a fan of the two-party capitalistic faux-voting system. But we don't change this by voting within the system. We change this by dismantling the system and re-building a new system.

Edited August 16, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[casprrr]

I will vote against Donald Trump, although Hillary Clinton isn't much better imho.

[MoonTiger]

Both are utterly insane. I'm worried for the future regardless of who gets elected. Bernie is crazy too. I mean free college? Do people honestly believe that's possible? If something is "free" then it's being paid for with taxes and our tax system is already pretty scary.

Edited August 17, 2016 by LoveOfTheMoonChild

[Obscure_Trash]

Both are utterly i****e. I'm worried for the future regardless of who gets elected. Bernie is c***y too. I mean free college? Do people honestly believe that's possible? If something is "free" then it's being paid for with taxes and our tax system is already pretty scary.

Profanity in links

 

We're aware, and it's still cheaper to offer things universally

Healtcare example and it was in some thread here in GD where we compared universal healthcare costs to privatized healthcare costs and universal healthcare was overall much cheaper in the long run

 

Paying with things through taxes is not a bad thing.

Edited August 17, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[SlyFox]

Actually, you can vote for whoever you like regardless of which party you're officially registered with. Since you consider yourself an independent conservative, it sounds like you might want to go the Gary Johnson route, since he was a Republican governor for awhile before running as Libertarian.

Have they changed it for primaries? When I first registered, they told me that I would only be able to vote within my own party in primaries. That's why I would want to change it.

[Kith]

Have they changed it for primaries? When I first registered, they told me that I would only be able to vote within my own party in primaries. That's why I would want to change it.

The primaries are still the same, but you were talking about the final election, so I was speaking to that in particular. So you can push whatever button you want in November, and hopefully you'll be able to find the time to change your affiliation before the next presidential primary occurs.

[georgexu94]

This has been going on for an annum. And the US president still hasn't been elected? The Philippines' done with theirs. I should browse other nation's consti to familiarise myself with these events.

[sara4cows]

Just throwing out my reasoning behind voting Hillary.

 

1) Supreme Court nomination: It is highly important to have reasonable justices on the bench and it is hard to hope for reasonable nominations from someone who's stance has been the hate du jour. The justices will sit much longer than a president will and the results of these nominations/confirmations are long lasting.

 

2) Class warfare is rampant in our country, we have no hope of improving that situation without equal rights and better education opportunities. I don't see this happening during a Trump presidency. I challenge anybody who thinks that class warfare isn't a problem to read "White Trash - The 400-year Untold History of Class in America" by Nancy Isenberg.

 

3) While people don't feel she is trustworthy we also need to consider the time and money spent to give us the feeling of distrust. I don't feel that any politician is trustworthy, but the idea of running her through the muck to destroy her credibility in the event that she made a run is just going to far and smells foul.

 

4) The last Clinton presidency speaks for itself. (If his moral character comes into question, which I don't feel it should, just take look at the moral character of the current R- candidate.) The budget was left in surplus and the unemployment low. I don't believe, with Hillary's political knowledge and personal strengths, that Bill worked on much without her input.

 

5) It is our job as Americans to consider the good of the people in worse situations that we are. It is up to every one of us to use our vote for the good of all the people, not just what we need.

 

Just throwing this out here as an add: Do not forget the senate, house, state and local elections. These people are equally as important to the successful running of the government and to also to making the changes we really hope to see.

Edited August 20, 2016 by sara4cows

[Obscure_Trash]

This has been going on for an annum. And the US president still hasn't been elected? The Philippines' done with theirs. I should browse other nation's consti to familiarise myself with these events.

The final election isn't until November 8. We have a ton of campaigning, in part due to primaries/general set up of our election, and in part due to the capitalistic advertisement-driven nature of our campaigns. =o

[georgexu94]

And this is always November 8? There's no provision in your Consti. The term of office for the US pres and VP is four years. At least that is in the consti.

 

I know 2nd Monday of May is always voting for our president (Phil.) and the elected president is seated in power at noon on 30th June. This is all in the 1987 Philippine Consti.

 

Edit to ask: Does presidents and vice presidents that a citizen vote have to be of the same party or not necessarily?

Edited August 21, 2016 by georgexu94

[Obscure_Trash]

And this is always November 8? There's no provision in your Consti. The term of office for the US pres and VP is four years. At least that is in the consti.

 

I know 2nd Monday of May is always voting for our president (Phil.) and the elected president is seated in power at noon on 30th June. This is all in the 1987 Philippine Consti.

 

Edit to ask: Does presidents and vice presidents that a citizen vote have to be of the same party or not necessarily?

The presidential election is always the Tuesday after the first Monday of November, so it is not always the 8th. It just falls on the 8th this year. ^^

Inauguration happens January 20th and their term officially starts at noon that day, when VP is sworn in. (The president is sworn in next.)

 

No, the President and VP do not legally have to be the same party. However, the only time different-party-President-and-VP is likely to happen is in the case of a tie for President in the general election or if a new VP needs appointed mid-term (such as due to a death). In the case of a tie, the House of Representatives would elect the President and Senate the VP. If a new VP needs appointed, they would have to be approved by Congress. If the Reps and Senate are each controlled by a different party or Congress is controlled by the party the President doesn't belong to (and these differences often happen), then the VP elected could be a different party than the President. However, in a typical election the President is most likely to choose a VP who is most likely their same party, unless the President sees a good strategic reason to choose a VP of another party (although they're more likely to choose someone who is more middle-of-the-road than an extreme left- or right-leaning person if that's the case).

 

While in theory, it is possible, it's not something likely to happen. The only president who ever selected a VP of a different party was Abraham Lincoln, whose VP was Andrew Johnson. And he was assassinated. =X And the only other time in history a party-split in our highest office has happened was when Thomas Jefferson (Democratic-Republican) became VP for John Adams (Federalist) as this was before working out many of our current election rules. So in that election, electors cast two votes at the same time. Adams had the most votes and became President and Jefferson had the second most votes and became VP.

 

And that was really more than you asked, but there you go. =p

[georgexu94]

That really is very interesting and enlightening. Thank you, Sock!

[Wildmoon]

Does anyone else think it's entirely hypocritical that he wants to keep Foreigners out completely. (seemingly regardless of any US Citizenship they have -.-)?

I mean... his current wife is Slovenian, and Ivana Trump (whom he freaking RAPED) was Czech...

 

and both former models.. too.. seems like his quote about "as long as you've got a beautiful piece of ***" applies to his views on foreigners.. ugh.

 

I'd say I'm glad I'm not American, but in truth, I'm just as scared as what I am sincerely hoping the majority of american's are of Trump being in power...

[Kestra15]

Trump is a magnificent study of hypocrisy, megalomania, more-money-than-sense, and narcissim. His entire strategy seems to be based on mud-slinging, shock-value, and playing on fears; almost all of the policies he talks at length about are almost utterly nonviable, and the ones that there has been some actual thought behind are generally the ones thought up by those in his team who have more than to brain cells to blow together - hence why he never talks about them during his inpromptu rants. He knows very little about running a business much less a country as evidenced by his multiple failures in his business life, rampant nepotism across business and campaign, and an almost-supernatural ability to say exactly the worst thing at the worst time.

 

What worries me most of all though is that he seems motivated predominantly by anger. As someone who struggled with anger issues that lost me my partner, jobs and nearly my career before I finally spent several years getting help to bring it under control, I would not like someone like Trump in charge of anything more than a plastic safety spoon with a temperament like his.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Kestra15

[Switch]

so. how about that debate huh?? trump only coherently answered like, maybe one question in the entire hour and thirty minutes he had on stage. if im being generous.

my parents have been supporters of him from the beginning but they were livid after watching that hahaha

Edited September 27, 2016 by Switch

[CrypticAsterisk]

so. how about that debate huh?? trump only coherently answered like, maybe one question in the entire hour and thirty minutes he had on stage. if im being generous.

my parents have been supporters of him from the beginning but they were livid after watching that hahaha

I liked the part where he called tax evasion smart

 

tbh I'm not sided with either of the main candidates?? Trump is inept and Clinton is corrupt. We're either one flavor of screwed or another flavor of screwed depending on who gets elected. I'll probably put my vote towards a third party candidate, maybe Jill Stein. I might be wasting my vote, but at least I can say I chose who I thought would be a good fit.

 

I'm not one to start firefights over political siding, though. I'm willing to hear all sides out, even if I might not agree with them on all fronts.

[Vhale]

I've seen some good points raised about how surreal it is that Hillary gets called corrupt, in the face of everything that Donald as pulled.

He's still sending out donation requests to foreign nationals (which is illegal)

His campaign managers have direct ties to Russia (also under investigation)

It's been found repeatedly that he lies about giving to charity, to the extent that he's been using his charity (that he doesn't donate to) to illegally pay off lawsuits against him for... stiffing charities.

3000+ CURRENT lawsuits, related to him stiffing people for bills and discrimination

He literally CAN"T tell the truth. He sniffle through the entire debate. He claims he didn't. It's on video... Live...

His bribes to officials in Florida, NY etc to stop investigations into his fake university scam

It just goes on and on. Even the scandal from the debate about calling the Miss Universe Miss Piggy/Housekeeping, she mentions alongside it that he never paid her her contractual amount. Again and again, he doesn't hold up his side of the bargain.

It's like people are saying, Hillary isn't perfect so I'll go with the guy that has an active and prolific history of screwing over anyone that's convenient. Never mind the whole Republican rollback of civil rights (early voting/gerrymandering), totally screwing the pooch on the economy (Kansas/Trickle Down), shuttering healthcare (privatize medicare), close the consumer protection bureau (who caught Wells Fargo) and plan to sell out National parks (heya pielines). Oh, and Donald's plan to confiscate guns from "those people"

[Leidarendi]

Limberbutt McCubbins.

 

www.limberbutt.com

 

1. Isn't a megalomaniac narcissistic windbag

2. Doesn't have a secret server in his basement

3. Isn't a pothead who doesn't know what Aleppo is

4. Doesn't have an arrest warrant out for vandalizing bulldozers

[blah]

That debate. I have no words. How did Trump even get there?

 

Really curious to see what the USA will do. Bush seemed competent next to Trump and he was the guy we misunderestimated.