2016 Presidential Election

[ladyvidel]

I agree that we need to get rid of the two party system, I do however think it will be more effective if we start at the local and state levels first, and we're already making decent progress. On that note, I voted for Clinton because to be honest, Trump scares the living out of me and would strip rights from the LGBTQ+ community as well as women.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[SullenCat]

Good point. But two days can still make all the difference to people who may have kept up with but weren't fully swayed by the previous nine days' worth of information.

I would call it misinformation. And that's my whole point: for 9 days Comey was responsible for misinformation, the one he created and the one he allowed Trump and his followers to create. That makes him a self-interested, dangerous individual, someone that should be kicked out of the FBI or any other role with a modicum of responsibility.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SullenCat

[neversaynevermore]

@ladyvidel - In complete agreement with you that local and state politics need more attention.

 

@SullenCat - If a properly conducted investigation of his actions finds him guilty, then yes, he should lose his position and prestige. I just think it's too early to confirm the effectiveness of what seems to be amounting to a little ego trip of his lol.

[diaveborn]

Trump scares the living out of me and would strip rights from the LGBTQ+ community as well as women.

I'm also really concerned about his lack of any sort of policy for (and his mocking of) disabled people.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Obscure_Trash]

But honestly if everyone is only voting one or the other as the lesser evil, why not vote independent or write in Bernie?

 

1. Because a third party candidate is not going to win. Bernie didn't submit for his name to be on the ballot for this reason (not even all the states allow a write-in spot on their ballot!) - if you want third party, vote them into local offices.

2. Voting third party hurts Hillary's chances more than Trump's.

3. I absolutely do not want Trump, so even though I'm registered third party and prefer third party candidates, I know that a third party vote in the presidential election is a protest vote, and I'm not willing to throw my vote away this election when there's a chance Trump could be elected.

[Fuzzbucket]

Just a little bit ago, "Breaking News" was had from the FBI that the recent crapstorm over emails had no grounding--and that nothing new was found. They and Justice are standing by their findings and decision of July. Isn't that nice. In the meantime while this idiotic game was being played people voted. Because of it a significant number of voters changed their minds about who they were choosing. Damage has been done to the election...

[SullenCat]

@ladyvidel - In complete agreement with you that local and state politics need more attention.

 

@SullenCat - If a properly conducted investigation of his actions finds him guilty, then yes, he should lose his position and prestige. I just think it's too early to confirm the effectiveness of what seems to be amounting to a little ego trip of his lol.

Little ego trip is acceptable from a child. Not from a director of the FBI. I doubt there will be any investigation if Hillary is elected because she will stay away from anything that could be constructed as a political revenge.

BUT Comey's chain of command stated loud and clear that he did not had approval to go his own way. Now that there's proof that he was completely wrong, someone will be looking very close at him.

Try to bring this situation down to normal working place rules. Mr X decides to ignore his boss's opinion and goes public with his "concerns", his concerns turn out to be bull, what will his boss do??? There is no need for an investigation, he investigated already and his investigation said he was wrong.

 

ETA: what fuzzbucket said. She summarized what went on.

ETA 2: And who will be trusting the FBI after this debacle??? That agency just went down the toilet and will stay there until there's a big cleaning effort, starting from kicking out Comey and other Trumpland individuals.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SullenCat

[neversaynevermore]

Little ego trip is acceptable from a child. Not from a director of the FBI. I doubt there will be any investigation if Hillary is elected because she will stay away from anything that could be constructed as a political revenge.

BUT Comey's chain of command stated loud and clear that he did not had approval to go his own way. Now that there's proof that he was completely wrong, someone will be looking very close at him.

Try to bring this situation down to normal working place rules. Mr X decides to ignore his boss's opinion and goes public with his "concerns", his concerns turn out to be bull, what will his boss do??? There is no need for an investigation, he investigated already and his investigation said he was wrong.

 

ETA: what fuzzbucket said. She summarized what went on.

I don't think we're exactly in opposition here, I was mainly thinking (or posting, rather) out loud in regards to what I see as the shortcomings in Comey's...plan, I guess is a suitable word for it. Perhaps it's pointless to try to pick the brains of people who don't play by the same rules they impose upon the rest of us.

[DuskOfTheStars]

I'm also really concerned about his lack of any sort of policy for (and his mocking of) disabled people.

And this is a big reason why I could never vote for Trump, as well as the fact that women and LGBTQ+ have no real place in Trump's America. Never. I'm disabled myself...

[SullenCat]

I don't think we're exactly in opposition here, I was mainly thinking (or posting, rather) out loud in regards to what I see as the shortcomings in Comey's...plan, I guess is a suitable word for it. Perhaps it's pointless to try to pick the brains of people who don't play by the same rules they impose upon the rest of us.

I must agree. All things considered, Comey sounds like an opportunist placing himself to get his actual boss's job by endearing himself to Trump and, at the same time, trying to not look too dishonest, in case Clinton wins.

Whatever his plan is, he disrupted the elections and, if Clinton loses by a narrow margin, every country in the world will associate his name with cheating and betraying democratic principles. As I said earlier, he will be in every history book as the man that tried (or succeeded) to mess up this election... as if it was not yet messy enough.

And I'm not even a Democrat...

 

ETA:

By the way...

On 10/28, Clinton had 81% chances of winning. Thanks to Comey, she now has 65%. Her lead was 5.7 points, now it is 2.9. So, yes, that disgraceful lifelong Republican Comey heavily influenced the elections.

Not just Clinton. The chances of the Democrats winning the Senate were 70%, now 50%.

 

Comey, we will not forget. I hope Trump paid you a lot for the loss of your reputation.

Edited November 7, 2016 by SullenCat

[neversaynevermore]

I must agree. All things considered, Comey sounds like an opportunist placing himself to get his actual boss's job by endearing himself to Trump and, at the same time, trying to not look too dishonest, in case Clinton wins.

Whatever his plan is, he disrupted the elections and, if Clinton loses by a narrow margin, every country in the world will associate his name with cheating and betraying democratic principles. As I said earlier, he will be in every history book as the man that tried (or succeeded) to mess up this election... as if it was not yet messy enough.

And I'm not even a Democrat...

Leaving out the possibility of outside pressure to give up, maybe in dropping the investigation now and not waiting till after the election's over and done with and the dust has settled he's trying to rally the Trump base by fueling their belief that Clinton really can get away with anything. Still strange to ponder. Haha, I'm at a loss as to how to classify myself politically. This election hasn't helped with that, its weirdness has truly transcended party lines.

[SullenCat]

Leaving out the possibility of outside pressure to give up, maybe in dropping the investigation now and not waiting till after the election's over and done with and the dust has settled he's trying to rally the Trump base by fueling their belief that Clinton really can get away with anything. Still strange to ponder. Haha, I'm at a loss as to how to classify myself politically. This election hasn't helped with that, its weirdness has truly transcended party lines.

I never registered and never will register as a Republican or Democrat. But I can read the news and be disgusted by the games that lifelong Republicans play when they were supposed to be above the mess.

[neversaynevermore]

I never registered and never will register as a Republican or Democrat. But I can read the news and be disgusted by the games that lifelong Republicans play when they were supposed to be above the mess.

Yeah, it's disappointing. I think the impact of this election on the reputation of both major parties will be felt for quite a while. Maybe some much-needed restructuring will result. Then, maybe not, but I like to be optimistic, often to my own detriment lol.

 

I'm going to bow out of this thread for now but I thank you all for the civil discourse! Honestly a rarity when politics are concerned and I'm glad I decided to check back here in search of it haha.

Edited November 7, 2016 by neversaynevermore

[SullenCat]

If I may... here is the post-elections scenario that concerns me... Let's assume that Comey will still be the FBI director. Unless his boss gets rid of him, I guess that, if Hillary wins, he will stay where he is, she will want to avoid suspicions of revenge. If Trump wins, who knows. But assuming that Comey is the director and something extremely serious... Who will trust his input? The Americans that blame him for elections disruption? The rest of the world... that by then will be laughing at us?

Whatever he says will be measured, disputed and probably ridiculed, his motives will be guessed and double-guessed. The outcome could be, for lack of trust on someone that showed that can't be trusted, extremely dangerous.

[Fuzzbucket]

I doubt if anyone will trust the FBI any more. I'm not sure that's such a bad thing - they interfere in so many inappropriate ways.

[Marrionetta]

If I may... here is the post-elections scenario that concerns me... Let's assume that Comey will still be the FBI director. Unless his boss gets rid of him, I guess that, if Hillary wins, he will stay where he is, she will want to avoid suspicions of revenge. If Trump wins, who knows. But assuming that Comey is the director and something extremely serious... Who will trust his input? The Americans that blame him for elections disruption? The rest of the world... that by then will be laughing at us?

Whatever he says will be measured, disputed and probably ridiculed, his motives will be guessed and double-guessed. The outcome could be, for lack of trust on someone that showed that can't be trusted, extremely dangerous.

The alternative is the obama admin firing him so the blood isn't on clinton's hands when she reaches office.

[Bigbite]

The alternative is the obama admin firing him so the blood isn't on clinton's hands when she reaches office.

He should resign.

[Fuzzbucket]

He should resign.

Resigning is too good for him. He needs to be FIRED.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/fbi-director-james...-service-517815

[Bigbite]

Resigning is too good for him. He needs to be FIRED.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/fbi-director-james...-service-517815

You're right.

[Odeen]

I suspect Comey will neither resign nor be fired. FBI directors serve for 10 years, and he's been there for 3. He's got a pretty defensible position in saying he was only being thorough and did what he could to expedite the resolution of the issue after it came to light. One could argue that if Trump were to win, maybe he would consider resigning, but I believe he is a political conservative and I find that thought pretty unlikely. If Clinton wins, she will likely start by focusing on more far-reaching issues than a misbehaving FBI director.

 

As far as I'm concerned, while I think his behavior was deplorable, I'm not sure his fate is consequential.

[SullenCat]

I suspect Comey will neither resign nor be fired. FBI directors serve for 10 years, and he's been there for 3. He's got a pretty defensible position in saying he was only being thorough and did what he could to expedite the resolution of the issue after it came to light. One could argue that if Trump were to win, maybe he would consider resigning, but I believe he is a political conservative and I find that thought pretty unlikely. If Clinton wins, she will likely start by focusing on more far-reaching issues than a misbehaving FBI director.

 

As far as I'm concerned, while I think his behavior was deplorable, I'm not sure his fate is consequential.

I think you're right. While those 10 years can be cut short, depending on the DOJ, I think that nobody, in the Obama administration, wants to touch that hot potato.

The issue will be that nobody, in the future, in the USA or abroad, will be taking seriously whatever the FBI says. Comey didn't taint himself, only. He tainted the FBI. The media will ensure, whenever the FBI tries to state anything, right or wrong, that this debacle will be brought up, over and over again. We will be dealing with 7 years of mocking and ignoring the FBI.

Great job, Mr. Comey. Not.

Edited November 8, 2016 by SullenCat

[StormBirdRising]

Throughout history there have been times when Good and Evil have met head on and fought to the death. Evil gains ground through lies, hatred, propaganda, abuse of power, rumor and innuendo. Evil preys on the foolish and the misguided, those who believe in pie in the sky and entitlement, those who would rather have their government tell them what to believe than formulate their own opinions. Evil encourages a rush to judgement and demands the vilification of all who stand up to it.

 

Donald Trump is my candidate and I hope my one vote for him will allow him to triumph over the Evil that has had a stranglehold on my country for the past eight years and threatens to keep that stranglehold for another eight years.

 

A Trump win will be another triumph of Good over Evil.

[flockof-doves]

rest in peace america

[ladyvidel]

rest in peace america

I can't disagree with this, not even a little bit. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place for this election. The question, is who is the rock and who is the hard place?

[StormBirdRising]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/hill...d8?ocid=U348DHP

 

Only Donald Trump, the American Independent, running on the Republican ticket, can stop this nightmare.

Edited November 8, 2016 by StormBirdRising