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2016 Presidential Election

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The fact that he wants to dismantle the affordable care act, which is the only reason that many Americans have been able to get healthcare or afford their medications? The fact that, instead of socializing healthcare so that no one has trouble getting it or has to avoid the hospital even when they work in retail on their feet for at least 8 hours a day and break their foot, he wants to implement free-market healthcare which would 1) not guarantee available healthcare to everybody, 2) mean people with preexisting conditions could once again be denied coverage, and 3) make charity by hospitals discouraged.

I just want to say, the affordable care act made my family's health insurance costs go up so much we couldn't afford to keep our plan, AND now we get fined for being unable to have it. And we're not poor enough to get it subsidized, even though my dad can't get a job. The ACA is literally taking healthcare away from people like my family to give it to other people. How is that good?

 

I don't think socializing healthcare is a good idea, at least not the way the ACA does it. I also don't think no-holds-barred free-market healthcare is a good idea, but at least it doesn't have pretenses of being all high and mighty while just screwing over a different set of people. Whoever wins, I hope someone gets rid of it.

Edited by TheCompleteAnimorph

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Open borders are a very bad idea. Look at Europe.

What about Europe?

 

I am not saying the guy is likeable, or even thinks about the implications of what he is saying, but I really only want to focus on what issues each candidate stands for.. not the person themselves. If you want to talk character, I know people who do not respect Clinton because after her husband cheated on her, she stayed for the money and the name.

 

. . . I literally do not know how to say this any more clearly. Racist, sexist, homophobic pedophiles do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. I can 100% guarantee you that I will not agree with the policies of anybody whose main personality traits are all forms of bigotry. Their policies will uphold their racist, sexist, homophobic beliefs.

 

Trump is less than likeable. He is a despicable human being. Why in the world would I ever want anyone like him 1) running my country, 2) representing the whole of America, or 3) making decisions that directly impact my life???

 

Again, goodie for you for not being impacted by these serious, life-altering """buzzwords""" but for many of us these are the realities of our life.

 

A racist is going to have racist policies. A sexist is going to have sexist policies. A homophobe is going to have homophobic policies. A rapist is going to be no friend to victim-friendly policies.

 

Just because your life is not personally impacted by bigotries doesn't make them valid reasons to literally loathe somebody.

 

Somebody who does not see me as a person 100% does NOT belong in a position of authority over me, much less the whole country.

 

P.S. Love how Clinton's personality flaw is that her husband is a cheater. That totally compares.

 

Also, Clinton wants war just as much as Trump. She wants to arm a group of people we have yet to arm because doing so could be dangerous. She's also proposing a no fly zone that will enrage Russia more than anything. I fail to see how that is necessary.

 

I actually quoted a post of mine just a few posts ago where I touched on this earlier. I've said so many times in this thread that I don't agree with a lot of Clinton's policies. However, I 100% disagree with all of Trump's policies and a third party is not going to win.

 

I would also like to point out that Reagan is still the most popular president, and he did a lot of bombing.

 

Reagan was probably the worst president we had. He's p much single-handedly responsible for the loan crisis and the collapse of the near entire middle class.

 

The affordable healthcare act is not affordable to many. If you are a small business that employs over a dozen people, you must provide a healthcare plan. Many small businesses cannot foot that bill. Not only that, but if you do not purchase a healthcare plan, you will actually get fined. Yes, I want to live in a country where it is not my choice whether I have insurance.

 

As I believe I implied, I support a 100% universal healthcare, but overall ACA is better than the previous system we have.

 

All businesses should 100% have to offer healthcare; the fact that small businesses can't foot this should be addressed.

Also should point out that small businesses struggled before the ACA and the ACA offers tax cuts for small businesses to help them afford this.

 

Common core is also a terrible thing, having several teachers in my family who have to deal with it firsthand. Basing the amount of funding a school gets on meeting the standards of state testing, which is simply not possible for every child to do. In fact, they determined what scores are considered basic, proficient, and advanced after the tests have been scored so only a certain percentage get advanced. Common Core forces teachers to teach only to the test in vain hopes of the school doing well enough to net themselves much needed money. Kinds who fail to do well are forced to take supplementary classes at the costs of elective classes they may have an interest in. For a lot of children, electives are their first real exposure to a possible future career.

 

Uh, okay, good for you. My mom is also a teacher and I'm friends with many of my HS teachers. But what my statement was is that "the majority of teachers do support common core":

https://edexcellence.net/articles/what-teac...w-fordham-study

http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled/2015/0...about_them.html

 

National polls put teacher support of common core at 75%. While I have some issues with common core (such as the ridiculous amount of standardized testing), it seems a smart idea to listen to what teachers are saying and 75% of them approving is something that should be listened to.

 

Funding being cut is actually the fault of No Child Left Behind, a Bush initiative, and something I do not support. Something that could be cut without cutting Common Core...

It's also v similar to Trump's plan to close schools...

 

But honestly, the whole point of my post is that all of my """emotional""" reasons are actually valid reasons and just because you disagree with them doesn't make them not valid. =_=

 

I get the outrage leveled at Trump, he's done and said some disgusting things. Hillary's vile too though and even as someone with no bias I can see she gets easier treatment for the crap she's pulled than Trump. I can understand "lesser evil" support for either, and I think for both bases that's the basis for most support.

 

what???

 

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I know this isn't the perfect way to judge (but there is no really great way to show this...), but there's double the coverage on anything Hillary Clinton email related than there is about Trump, who is literally going on trial for rape. For rape. Something that should 100% disqualify a candidate IMO.

 

Hillary gets called names by Trump in every single debate. She withstands sexist attacks from the media. Who in the world do you see being easier on her???

 

I just want to say, the affordable care act made my family's health insurance costs go up so much we couldn't afford to keep our plan, AND now we get fined for being unable to have it. And we're not poor enough to get it subsidized, even though my dad can't get a job. The ACA is literally taking healthcare away from people like my family to give it to other people. How is that good?

 

I don't think socializing healthcare is a good idea, at least not the way the ACA does it. I also don't think no-holds-barred free-market healthcare is a good idea, but at least it doesn't have pretenses of being all high and mighty while just screwing over a different set of people. Whoever wins, I hope someone gets rid of it.

 

10 million more people have healthcare thanks to the ACA -> Now doubled

The ACA has reduced out-of-pocket healthcare costs

Higher quality healthcare with the ACA

Depending on the age bracket, 20 - 50% of people have a preexisting condition and could have been denied insurance before ACA and these denials were on the rise

 

Going by individual accounts of people who I've seen specifically mention that they've benefited from the ACA are people who have preexisting conditions and can now afford their medication. As someone under 26, I'll say that I've highly benefited as well since I have asthma and go to the dermatologist for acne, so have regular appointments I have to make and medication to buy.

 

This is what socialized healthcare refers to.

 

I don't think people should be fined for not being able to have insurance. I do recognize ACA isn't perfect, which is why I strongly support a universal system, which would also be overall cheaper for all of us.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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I know this isn't the perfect way to judge (but there is no really great way to show this...), but there's double the coverage on anything Hillary Clinton email related than there is about Trump

There have been thousands of emails leaked for a period of well over a year and counting whereas the rape allegations against Trump have only recently gained traction in public knowledge after victims started speaking out, and they've been covered extensively by mainstream media outlets whereas the emails have been largely ignored by such, hence people taking to the internet to learn more about them. Good ol' Streisand effect lol.

 

 

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Refugees I expect would go through a  different system otherwise, but their entrance into a country should still be documented.

 

 

That's the problem though. People aren't paying into the system. If there's some way they are managing to do that in the UK, that's unknown to me, but it's not happening here. Like I said, I don't care what race you are, but become a citizen or get a work visa- and the people paying them under the table are committing a crime and are no better.

 

 

They don't come in on aircraft, you can't smuggle weapons or drugs on airlines. They come in at the borders. The borders that you can walk across easily because nobody patrols them.

 

I am not excusing people who do racist things. I'm not saying there are no racists, but the system is not racist, and not everyone who thinks open borders are a bad idea or that they should not take in refugees because of the economic strain is a racist.

We now have laws that prevent people from refusing service based on race and religion, it's not as bad as it was in the past and I feel we'd do better to move forward than keep bringing it up, like picking open a would we do not allow to heal.

 

(edit cause quote tags broke)

You certainly CAN smuggle weapons and drugs on airlines. A friend of mine actually and accidentally took a massive toothed knife in his hand-baggage. He honestly forgot he hadn't put it in the hold. To his amazement, when he unpacked at the other end, there it was. It hadn't even got caught on the xrays. (and I don't actually know if those very sharp ceramic knives show up, BTW.) As for drugs - if you don't know how eas ythat is... and no, I never have, but...

 

If you want to catch people doing that, though, You need to work as they do in Israel. They don't have this OTT security they have in the US and the UK - they do spot checks based on information at times, but you KNOW if you are in a spot check, they are SO thorough that you will not get away with whatever.

 

Open borders means it doesn't actually MATTER how many people are in the country - you can sign up to pay your taxes without fear. FEAR, deliberately engineered by governments - PARTICULARLY the UK and US - is being used when there is no need for it. If you haven't read Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine - do. It lays it all bare. We ar led into fear so that they can lush through unpopular measures that will secure profit for the rich. Ra\ism - encouraging fear of The Other - is one way they do it. In discussions about all this years ago, they were using something else - there is a record of Margaret Thatcher - a big part of this, along with Reagan - at a heads of state meeting saying said "We need to unite them all against a common enemy. Climate change will do." Unfortunately it didn't; there are too many people making money out of denial. Now they are using THE WAR ON TERROR in the same way, and to that they have added fear of Muslims in particular.

 

But international nonsense on terror is not the main issue here; this is about your election. And - well, wait top see how the poor will be ground further into the ground if Trump wins; how education will be slashed further, the income gap will widen, hate crimes of all kind will become steadily more normalised and acceptable. Vote for all that if you like. I wouldn't.

 

And the rich people who want to be able to carry on control so much of the media that anything HE does wrong - and there's a shedload - is gently buried; Hillary - who hasn't committed a criminal offence, just been - as the FBI investigation said in the first place - careless - gets her emails gone over and over and over. I'm not wild about her - I don't give a bleep about her emails, but her foreign policy appals me. Even so, I'd rather see her win. For YOUR sakes; she would probably be rather worse for the rest of the world, but the US going jungle scares me..

Edited by fuzzbucket

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For me, it's just the two people that are running against each other in this election.

One I have read and heard was a liar and dishonest person.

The other I have seen is a bully, a liar, a fraud, nasty , mean cruel and hateful person.

I won't vote for the latter. His name is Donald Trump.

I'm through, please vote, can't wait till Nov. 9.

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Or you won't be able to complain about whatever goes wrong afterwards - it will be partly down to you.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I have enough faith in the American people to believe that our country won't fall into a doomsday scenario under either Trump or Hillary. The same scenario that's touted as an imminent reality every election cycle... and has yet to come to pass.

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The on;y thing I really have to say Sock, is that just because the ACA works out for you, does not mean it works out for others, as you seems to have no sympathy for TCA. Not to mention it is absurd to fine people for not having healthcare.

 

And well Fuzzbucket, people who come here illegally don't sign up to pay taxes.. so they're not paying into our system- the only tax they would be paying is sales tax, and all states set that individually, some don't even have it.

If they're not paying tax dollars and they send their children to school, the people who actually pay taxes are also paying for their child's education.

 

And well with my 'look at Europe' comment- Germany has taken in way more refugees than they could actually sustain, so now they're trying to force other countries to take some. From my understanding the migrants are supposed to settle in the first country they enter, but they'd rather move to a more wealthy one, putting a strain on those particular countries. The other thing about the EU is that if the economy of one country is struggling, the other members have to pay the price, since they use the same currency.

 

Sock, literally the only thing I agree with you on is that Reagan was a horrible president. ..but people did love him because he was an actor. Goes to show what the public really cares about.

 

But honestly if everyone is only voting one or the other as the lesser evil, why not vote independent or write in Bernie?

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And well with my 'look at Europe' comment- Germany has taken in way more refugees than they could actually sustain, so now they're trying to force other countries to take some. From my understanding the migrants are supposed to settle in the first country they enter, but they'd rather move to a more wealthy one, putting a strain on those particular countries. The other thing about the EU is that if the economy of one country is struggling, the other members have to pay the price, since they use the same currency.

Actually there was a thing passed in the EU parliament saying how many refugees each country should take. Germany did it properly and so did several others. The UK and a few others didn't - and Germany, being a thoroughly decent country, took way more so as not to send them back to a living hell. If they were picking the more wealthy countries - they wouldn't be wanting to leave Germany, which I believe is the wealthiest country in the EU - but they are still trying to get to the UK. It's sad - while the UK damn well OUGHT to take a load more, the lives of immigrants there is so vile that if I were among them, the UK is one of the LAST countries I would choose.

 

France has taken a huge number of the ones that should have come to the UK - because they too are decent. But this has NOTHING to do with your election.

 

However the currency thing does. The US, too, is a financial federation - and you prop up states that go bust using tghe same US dollar. Were it not for the IMF and the world bank imposting ludicrous financial penalties, none of THAT would be an issue anyway.

 

But honestly if everyone is only voting one or the other as the lesser evil, why not vote independent or write in Bernie?

Because you are abrogating your responsibility to make sure you get a sane president ?

 

Incidentally - if the US didn't make such a FUSS, and "illegal immigrants" were able to show up and offer to pay taxes without being deported, they might very well pay in.

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Well, in order to get a job they need a social security number, so they must apply to be a citizen first. When people pay them under the table instead they pay no income tax.

 

And well another thing, they get free healthcare, but the healthcare system is so screwed up to begin with- Pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to charge what they do for vital medicine like the epipen, and that's where I think there should be government regulation, not a regulation forcing everyone to have insurance.

 

But the other thing with immigrants, there are just too many people. I would rather make their home countries more appealing so they stay there, America is not in good shape. Our roads, bridges, infrastructure are all falling apart. And in my state government corruption meant the gas tax money that was meant to go to fixing our roads went somewhere else instead..

I truly think we need to fix our country before we open it up to others. If we can't provide properly for everyone that is here already, why would we take more?

But I guess in general there are too many people on the planet. I would never had children and subject them to this world.

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Hillary - who hasn't committed a criminal offence, just been - as the FBI investigation said in the first place - careless - gets her emails gone over and over and over. I'm not wild about her - I don't give a bleep about her emails

Have you looked at the content of some of the emails that have actually come out?

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Well, in order to get a job they need a social security number, so they must apply to be a citizen first. When people pay them under the table instead they pay no income tax.

That's partly because of tax avoidance among the super-rich - as Warren Buffet has pointed out.

 

@ TCA - yes thanks. And I still don't care. I have NO doubt there is JUST as much in emails of hundreds of other politicians who haven't been ruthlessly hacked and are praying fervently that they won't be.

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I have NO doubt there is JUST as much in emails of hundreds of other politicians who haven't been ruthlessly hacked and are praying fervently that they won't be.

That's the thing that saddens me- these people don't care about us, they only care about lining their pockets. The whole system is depressing.

 

And possibly. I would increase taxes on the rich, but then people say they'll take their business to China. There is no winning.

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That's the thing that saddens me- these people don't care about us, they only care about lining their pockets. The whole system is depressing.

 

And possibly. I would increase taxes on the rich, but then people say they'll take their business to China. There is no winning.

That's what's so wrong with globalisation and capitalism in general.

 

But DO VOTE. Or accept that whatever happens you will have no right to complain about it.

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But the other thing with immigrants, there are just too many people. I would rather make their home countries more appealing so they stay there, America is not in good shape. Our roads, bridges, infrastructure are all falling apart. And in my state government corruption meant the gas tax money that was meant to go to fixing our roads went somewhere else instead..

I truly think we need to fix our country before we open it up to others. If we can't provide properly for everyone that is here already, why would we take more?

But I guess in general there are too many people on the planet. I would never had children and subject them to this world.

I can attest to my area having the same problems it sounds like yours does. Since anecdotes don't seem to be anathema to this thread lol I will say I live in one of the poorest parts of the US and while I think this comparison is hyperbolic, people visiting from other areas like to exclaim with almost condescending pity that we live like people in third world countries do. I personally know people without reliable electricity and running water. I also have local acquaintances working more than one minimum wage job who qualify for and begrudgingly accept food stamps and still barely make it. It might shock people in other parts of the world and even other parts of the US but not all Americans enjoy the highest standard of living. I know my case is extreme which illustrates the absurdity of it all.

 

I'm still all for refugees being brought over and immigration in general (after a strict vetting process of course), I have the utmost compassion for people who might seek a better life here and can acknowledge the West's role in the presently unacceptable state of their place(s) of origin, but does it not seem a little disingenuous to bring them over before we have things more under control here when a) they could fall by the wayside like other disadvantaged people here, and b ) even if they are able to stay afloat, disadvantaged native citizens who feel forgotten might lash out? These aren't necessarily opinions I hold myself but I see the validity of them.

Edited by neversaynevermore

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Interesting enough, James Comey, the FBI director and lifelong Republican, today comes out and says that there were no emails in Weiner's laptop to change the conclusions that the FBI reached in July.

In the meantime, he did everything he could to disrupt the election, sending early voters to the booths believing that those new emails were significant, allowing Trump and his followers to say whatever lies they wanted.

If Hillary Clinton loses for a narrow margin, Americans will know who caused that. And the world will know that Comey is worse than Hoover.

 

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But the other thing with immigrants, there are just too many people. I would rather make their home countries more appealing so they stay there,

That's quite funny. Unless you're 100% Native American, that would have been a good reason to have kept your family out of this country. That's what was said about Irish, Italians, Chinese etc. etc.

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Strange that election day voters aren't factors in his perceived sabotage if his aim was to hurt Clinton.

Really? There was intended sabotage. He started his operations 11 days before election day. Just to say "never mind" 2 days before election day. So he had the time to influence and disrupt the elections for 9 days, while 40 million people voted.

He knew that would come out that there was nothing new, so now he is trying to cover his you-know-what.

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Really? There was intended sabotage. He started his operations 11 days before election day. Just to say "never mind" 2 days before election day. So he had the time to influence and disrupt the elections for 9 days, while 40 million people voted.

He knew that would come out that there was nothing new, so now he is trying to cover his you-know-what.

I'm not disputing there's been a potential abuse of power for political reasons, just his "strategy" seems odd to me. There are still many, many people yet to vote so to give Hillary clearance now probably frees up at least some on-the-fence votes for her, and I'm sure her base is livid at Comey's hounding of her just for this to happen and that may lend firepower to their getting out there and voting as well as doing last minute campaigning. I'll concede he might be placing more value on self-interest than politics at this point and this could be a last ditch measure to save face, however.

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That's quite funny. Unless you're 100% Native American, that would have been a good reason to have kept your family out of this country. That's what was said about Irish, Italians, Chinese etc. etc.

Well, yes laugh.gif

 

@ neversaynevermore - more than a third of voters have already voted, so....

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@ neversaynevermore - more than a third of voters have already voted, so....

Still, there are more people who haven't voted than who have, and early voting polls indicate a Clinton lead regardless though I'm not taking them too seriously lol.

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Still, there are more people who haven't voted than who have, and early voting polls indicate a Clinton lead regardless though I'm not taking them too seriously lol.

Ah - polls. You are aware of the "shy Trump fans" who don't like to admit they are voting for him because people will rail at them ?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/opinions/wil...voters-kennedy/

 

And yes - others say these theories don't hold up - but don't trust polls. Remember Brexit sad.gif

 

And I have to say that when I get polled during elections I always refuse to answer - or say something outrageous - as I REALLY object to the way polls are used to manipulate.

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Still, there are more people who haven't voted than who have, and early voting polls indicate a Clinton lead regardless though I'm not taking them too seriously lol.

In case you did not notice, 9 days to misrepresent the situation, influencing voters vs 2 days to correct the perception ... A big difference.

Not only. I think Clinton will win the popular vote but I'm quite sure that Comey's actions disrupted the situation in the electoral colleges.

For what concerns Comey... he will have a place in the history books and will not be a flattering one.

Trump said several times that he "bought" people, now I wonder.

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Ah - polls. You are aware of the "shy Trump fans" who don't like to admit they are voting for him because people will rail at them ?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/opinions/wil...voters-kennedy/

 

And yes - others say these theories don't hold up - but don't trust polls. Remember Brexit sad.gif

 

And I have to say that when I get polled during elections I always refuse to answer - or say something outrageous - as I REALLY object to the way polls are used to manipulate.

I concur with your skepticism about polls. And I've heard that theory about the "silent, scared majority". I know Trump supporters who believe they're part of it. I guess we really won't know until things substantiate with the final results.

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