Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
sparkle10184

2016 Presidential Election

Recommended Posts

The VAST majority of Muslims ARE like Marri, though.

That goes both ways. The vast majority of cops are also not racist. Yet we're gonna make a big deal out of that.

 

Any one person can destroy the trust between large groups of people. Acknowledging when one small group does something bad, but turning the other cheek when another group does it is not helping anything.

 

I would insist we treat everyone equally on a case by case basis; look at the possibility of things not happening because of race, but rather because of differing beliefs and economic status.

Though ultimately this problem is our fault ever since the Persian Gulf war- we destabilized the area and now there are people with contempt for us. Our only interest in the area was oil, something that I think we should be moving away from, but oh that's right, global warming isn't real. Couldn't be.

(obviously it is real).

Share this post


Link to post

If they really were assaulted they would have sued sooner rather than now. The one woman is trying to sue over supposedly being kissed anyway..

The reason these women didn't speak sooner? They weretraumatized. They expected society to cll them liars. Prople keep quiet gor years about this because they are shocked, they are hurt, they feel invalidated.

 

Why am I talking like I know this? Let me admit, I have not been sexually assualted - but I have been been verbally assualted, shouted at along with the rest of my class as though we were dogs constantly in trouble. It scarred me, and I didn't talk about it for years because I felt like everyone agreed with the teacher, that I was the one in the wrong. I still get flashbacks when people are angry at me, when people raise their voices at me. I still don't do a thing about badmouthing, because the voice in my head agrees with them.

 

Now sexual assualt? That's far worse. Someone is taking your body and grabbing it, using it, and you are too scared to stand up to it. You have been handled like a object. And that's very, very traumatising It's the sort of thing that won't let you forget it, that hurts you for years and years. Even a kiss? Yes. They are forcibly kissing you - abd most people reserve kissing for loved ones. There's also tongue-in-mouth kissing, which is pretty sexual - and isn't that what Trump did to the woman he kissed?

 

(And now I'm expecting to be called out for taking so long to post this.)

Edited by Dusky_Flareon

Share this post


Link to post

Being shouted at has happened very often to me. I had been bullied in school as well an the principal didn't give a frick. A boy also lifted up my shirt. I'm not going to go cry about it now.

 

As far as these women go, people would have been more likely to believe them if they would have talked about it years ago. Doing it now comes across as a bid for attention.

 

I fell, if we are going to talk politics, it must be done without emotions. I don't see that happening.

Share this post


Link to post

You know what attention people accusing celebrities of rape get? BAD attention. Death threats. So let's not go there.

 

(for example "Jane Doe has received numerous threats today as have all the Trump accusers that I have represented. She has decided she is too afraid to show her face. She has been here all day, ready to do it, but unfortunately she is in terrible fear." - source)

Edited by diaveborn

Share this post


Link to post

Everyone on the internet with any sort of opposing opinion gets death threats. Unless someone actually dies or is being stalked or gets attacked, it's nothing to worry about.

Share this post


Link to post

What? Oh my GOSH. I can't EVEN.

 

*sigh*

 

In this particular case, we're not talking about an anonymous internet where death threats hold less credibility (but, I would like to point out, can still be credible, and can, even if just a threat and not acted on, still be mentally/emotionally damaging to the receiver) but an actual press conference, where someone was going to reveal her identity but didn't because she was scared people might actually harm or kill her.

 

And more generally, I'd like to emphasize that my point was that the "attention" you say these women are "bidding for" by speaking out is BAD attention - why would anybody want that? Death threats are negative by any metric, and what, exactly, is the *good* attention that these women are getting?

Edited by diaveborn

Share this post


Link to post

It is possible these woman are leveling these allegations to damage Trump's political campaign, in order to benefit their candidate of choice, Clinton. Some people, whether you believe it or not will risk their own safely and integrity to the benefit of others.

Same thing happened with some of the women raped by migrants- they refused to testify against them because they believed them more oppressed than themselves.

 

As it stands, their timing is extremely suspect and deliberate, and that cannot really be denied. All this election has been is each candidate trying to demonize each other with appeal to emotion. Trump did the same thing by inviting some of Bill Clinton's mistresses and the people Hillary helped their rapist get away with rape to events. It has become about emotion and not politics, and as I have said, the two must be separated when talking about this.

Share this post


Link to post
I am fully aware they both lie. Everybody lies.

But I think there's a difference between lying an deleting thousands of emails in an attempt to destroy evidence after being asked to turn them over.

You're right.

 

If I have to choose between someone who sent some emails in an issue that I thought was over months ago and a self-admitted pedophile rapist and facist whose made sexual comments towards his own daughter and publicly begged Russia to hack a fellow candidate, I'm going to choose the emails because there is a big difference.

 

It is possible these woman are leveling these allegations to damage Trump's political campaign, in order to benefit their candidate of choice, Clinton.

 

NO, geezus, please, can we stop disregarding victims and survivors for whatever reason is easiest to disregard them with

 

Trump has had several allegations against him in his life long before he ever ran to ruin our lives. His ex-wife gave a very graphic report of how he raped her in her autobiography that people have been ignoring for like a decade now

Share this post


Link to post

So wait, *now* they're "risking their safety"? Okay.

 

Look at the Bill Cosby thing. That was not political in the slightest from my understanding yet more and more people came out as they saw others had come forward. When society demonizes people who are accusing others of rape, feeling like you have others on your side and that just maybe you'll have a higher chance of being believed is a strong motivator.

 

I mean, whatever. While we're ignoring all this let's just ignore the accusations of sexual predatory behaviors towards Trump since before the campaign, or the fact that he's recorded on tape bragging about / confessing to predatory behaviors. *You're* a woman and you can ignore it therefore let's all ignore it. (And while we're at it, mysogny was invented by twitter! Wow!) *rolls eyes so so hard and is done with this conversation*

Edited by diaveborn

Share this post


Link to post
Links may contain profanity (some do).

Look, I am not a fan of the whole lesser evil dichotomy. I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton. She is a white feminist who supports islamophobic proposals by Dems and has a history of antiblackness. I do not agree with a lot of her platforms. I am never going to defend what she has done and said, and I really wish Sanders had managed the nom. But he didn't. However, Trump did, and I am terrified of Trump. Anyone who is not a cishet white male should be terrified of Trump, who is an actual facist.

 

Links may contain profanity (many do).

Masterlist of why Trump is a literal facist

"Make America Great Again" is just racist/xenophobic/islamophobic/homophobic/transphobic bigotry

George Takei, who personally experienced American Japanese internment camps, compares Trump's policies to his past

Trump's foreign policy basically amounts to "use nukes"

Donald Trump quotes Mussolini, praises Saddam Hussein

Trump Rallies are full of racist slurs and xenophobia

Trump has been accused in a court of law of raping at least three women, threatens to kill the vics/survivorsif they talk, Google his ex-wife's graphic account of her rape (not linked for how graphic it is). "Ivana Trump rape" should bring it right up.

Trump's blatant misogyny

Trump is a-okay with incest jokes about him and his daughter -

Trump rally notes - crowd says "gays deserved it" shortly after Orlando shooting

Trump's response to the racist/homophobic Orlando shooting is to blame Muslims, appreciates being commended on his islamophobia

Rampant antiblackness at Trump rallies, Ex 2, contains antiblack and gendered slurs, rampant islamophobia at Trump rallies, rampant xenophobia at rallies

Brown Americans not even allowed to be journalists around Trump - thrown out of interview

Trump's money not where his mouth is - gave a bumper sticker to promote himself rather than a donation to help homeless vets

Trump does not plan on honoring current trade agreements and mutual defense treaties

-->censorkip.gif-donald-trump-just-encouraged' target='_blank'>Trump encourages Russia to hack the US government

Trump has catchphrases instead of plans, throws peaceful protesters out of rallies

Trump continues to re-tweet neo-nazis

Former KKK grand wizard David Duke supports Trump and Trump's platform, says not voting trump is treason to white heritage

Trump's platform encouraging racist/xenophobic school bullying

Trump's supporters a-okay with ableism, racism, and antisemitism

Trump can't win Latinx vote so registers fake Latinx social media accounts to make it seem like he can

Trump was raised by a Klansman

Trump's son calls a torture method just frathouse shenanigans

Trump spouts misogyny and bathroom humor to "discredit" Clinton

 

This 10 year old child sums up the basic mistakes of his whole campaign

 

So yeah. I get not wanting to vote Clinton, but more than that, I desperately do not want Trump to win this presidency.

Quoting again for the masterlist of how Trump is literally a facist + the other awful list of things he's done/the type of people who support him (yay, the KKK).

Share this post


Link to post

Yep, I figured I'd be disregarded. I am not saying Trump is blameless, and he, one again, would not have been my choice- that would have been Bernie, but oh, someone cheated him out of the chance.

 

I'm not victim blaming. When there is more proof he actually sexually assaulted these women other than their word, then I'll believe them. It is the job of the accuser to prove their accusation. That still doesn't mean I want to see Clinton win. I'd rather them both go to jail then. They'd both be criminals and that should exclude them from the election, but when you have money, you can pay the right people off.

But you guys are still only appealing to emotion, and being offended on the behalf of someone else.

 

I'm going to worry about myself. I would rather someone who's not embedded in the web of of politics and who's actions are bought and sold by wallstreet and foreign lobbyists.

Honestly the job of president is a joke anyway- the media has done a great job of turning our attention away from what really matters, the House and Senate.

Share this post


Link to post

His cutting off an old lady's water supply and doing NOTHING about it in over THREE YEARS in contravention of Scottish law is totally provable, and the movie - and the earlier one that can be seen on youtube - shows his attitude towards other, "lesser" people who don't want what HE wants - cavalier, don't care and plain rude. The Scots "should be ashamed" of someone who has a scruffy farm - give me strength.

 

I'm not disregarding you - I agree that some of the claims against him MAY be dodgy band-wagon ones - but I am pretty sure some of them aren't, and he is due in court on one of them later this year, don't forget. That said, while I think he is a sleaze, I think he is a seriously dangerous sleaze, and that worries me more. As a woman, I would never want to be alone in a room with him - but I worry rather more about the poor in the US, about education, healthcare, racism, the Trump supporters who say there will be a bloodbath if he doesn't win - that says so much about the kind of the US that may come to pass. The burned Mississippi church says it all. Have you seen Mississippi Burning ? A terrifying movie; I had hoped it was all in the past now - but it seems not.

Edited by fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post

Well if he got elected and then they find him guilty of something, I would not care if he was impeached- as he would deserve should he actually have broken a law. The only reason this bothers me so much is Clinton also has with the emails and if it was anyone else being investigated by the FBI their chances would have been crushed already. I don't like the double standard.

 

I would much rather this be over with already, I don't see a bright future under either, albeit for different reasons. The House and Senate need a complete overhaul though, an I do agree those people need term limits. Those positions should not be something people get rich off of, they should be something people want to do to better our country for everyone.. not just themselves. It's truly the bigger issue at play here.

Share this post


Link to post

Yep, I figured I'd be disregarded.

 

[...]

 

But you guys are still only appealing to emotion, and being offended on the behalf of someone else.

Kinda like you're disregarding victims even though false reports make up less than 2% of all reports?

 

I literally provided more than a dozen links on how Trump is a sexist, racist, homophobic pedophile facist. That's not """emotional""" and is a 1000% legit reason to disregard someone as a viable candidate.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

Share this post


Link to post
sexist, racist, homophobic pedophile facist

I want to see somebody have a discussion without using any of these buzzwords.

I need a better reason than that.

 

And I've moved onto the real issue at hand, which is, it doesn't matter who we elect, the House and Senate, the people who actually make the laws, are corrupt. The only advantage to Trump is he isn't buddy-buddy with these people so he'll make it a little harder for them. Still wanted Bernie though.

Share this post


Link to post

I want to see somebody have a discussion without using any of these buzzwords.

I need a better reason than that.

Good for you for not having to deal with any of these very serious issues in your life, but for many of us, these "buzzwords" are our reality. =_=

 

Not wanting a president who thinks it's okay to call me nasty on public television because my opinion differs from him is a 100% legit reason to disregard him.

Not wanting a president who thinks it's okay to admit to nonconseually "grabbing censorkip.gif*" because he thinks it's funny to do and not wanting a president who might try to "grab my censorkip.gif*" because he thinks he has the right to my body is a 100% legit reason to disregard him.

Not wanting a president who doesn't see Mexicans as people and can't even respect the fact that they simply exist is a 100% legit reason to disregard him.

Not wanting a president who begs other countries to hack us because he can't find any other legitimate reason to disqualify his competition (something that is only barely not covered under the definition of treason) is a 100% legitimate reason to disregard him.

Not wanting a president who blatantly encourages his supporters to harass and violently attack anybody whose opinion differs from his is a 100% legitimate reason to disregard him.

Not wanting a president who celebrates mass tragedy because he can use it to fit his agenda rather than just being a decent person and offering his condolences is a 100% legitimate reason to disregard him.

Not wanting a president who doesn't even know how to answer a question (seriously, has he answered even one question this debate season???) and therefore can't communicate well is a 100% legitimate reason to disregard him.

 

A president runs the country. They make decisions regarding war. They make decisions regarding the Supreme Court, a court full of lifelong judges who make decisions that directly impact my life. They represent the American people. Not liking the way he treats people is a 100% legitimate reason to disregard him as a viable candidate. Not agreeing with a single one of his so-called platforms is a 100% legitimate reason to disregard him as someone I would ever vote about.

 

When there's so many reasons when I wouldn't even hold a door open for him, there's not much reason to pick apart his policies (all of which are rooted in racism, sexism, and homophobia, of which I have already been clear about not supporting), especially when he's vague on anything he's actually going to do. He doesn't have much of a political platform to even debate when his whole platform is a vague (and racist) "Make America Great Again". That statement means literally nothing.

 

What in the heck are you expecting us to even comment on him about?

 

The fact that he thinks a 1000' wall is a reasonable thing to 1) put money towards, or 2) actually build? The fact that I 100% support more open borders and immigration reform and Trump's mature response is "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it!!1!1!" The fact that Trump wants to make visas, gosh darn visas harder to acquire when the process to apply for them is already extremely costly and time consuming? The fact that Trump literally wants to biometrically tag immigrants, which is filled with such distrust and is such an amazing violation of privacy I can't even.

 

The fact that he wants to dismantle the affordable care act, which is the only reason that many Americans have been able to get healthcare or afford their medications? The fact that, instead of socializing healthcare so that no one has trouble getting it or has to avoid the hospital even when they work in retail on their feet for at least 8 hours a day and break their foot, he wants to implement free-market healthcare which would 1) not guarantee available healthcare to everybody, 2) mean people with preexisting conditions could once again be denied coverage, and 3) make charity by hospitals discouraged.

 

The fact that his tax plan would not only greatly increase our debt but could actually cost middle- and low-income families more? The fact that his tax plan could cost us 11 million jobs in the long-term?

 

The fact that I support the dismantling of our military and Trump wants to increase it? The fact that, out of all the things we pay taxes for, our defense spending is 100% the first thing I support lowering and Trump's called for increased defense spending?

 

The fact that Trump has seriously uttered the words "peace through strength" as his foreign issues policy? Threatening people with a military show doesn't bring peace. Compliance =/= peace. Intimidation is not a valid way to interact with other countries to assure they just do what we want.

The fact that part of his foreign policy is just "keep Muslims out" in order to reduce terrorism even though 94% of all terrorist attacks have been carried out by non-Muslims and less than 0.01% of Muslims could be classified as extremists?

 

The fact that he's a climate change denier (even though literally all science points towards this as our reality and we have literally begun to see the effects of climate change) and has proposed ending all clean energy funding?

 

The fact that Trump wants to cut Common Core (even though 75% of all teachers support it)?

The fact that Trump's education plan would harm public schools and yank access to school away from kids by encouraging expensive private schools rather than just supporting public schools so they can improve and get the resources they need?

 

The fact that his maternity-leave and stay-at-home-mom tax credit outright doesn't include men in it, meaning they would not get paternity care and the program would discourage stay-at-home dads as they would not receive any tax credit?

 

I honestly have 10 million reasons to never support Trump and all of them are completely, 100% legitimate.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

Share this post


Link to post

Open borders are a very bad idea. Look at Europe.

I am not saying the guy is likeable, or even thinks about the implications of what he is saying, but I really only want to focus on what issues each candidate stands for.. not the person themselves. If you want to talk character, I know people who do not respect Clinton because after her husband cheated on her, she stayed for the money and the name.

 

Also, Clinton wants war just as much as Trump. She wants to arm a group of people we have yet to arm because doing so could be dangerous. She's also proposing a no fly zone that will enrage Russia more than anything. I fail to see how that is necessary.

I would also like to point out that Reagan is still the most popular president, and he did a lot of bombing.

 

The affordable healthcare act is not affordable to many. If you are a small business that employs over a dozen people, you must provide a healthcare plan. Many small businesses cannot foot that bill. Not only that, but if you do not purchase a healthcare plan, you will actually get fined. Yes, I want to live in a country where it is not my choice whether I have insurance.

 

Common core is also a terrible thing, having several teachers in my family who have to deal with it firsthand. Basing the amount of funding a school gets on meeting the standards of state testing, which is simply not possible for every child to do. In fact, they determined what scores are considered basic, proficient, and advanced after the tests have been scored so only a certain percentage get advanced. Common Core forces teachers to teach only to the test in vain hopes of the school doing well enough to net themselves much needed money. Kinds who fail to do well are forced to take supplementary classes at the costs of elective classes they may have an interest in. For a lot of children, electives are their first real exposure to a possible future career.

 

The climate change thing is truly unfortunate, but it's one of those things that is being said to gain the favor of corporations- that is a root of most of the problems with our government, that anybody with money can pay people off to vote in their interests.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Open borders are a very good idea. The ONLY real issue with them is the countries who won't have them.

 

Within Europe - until we charming Westerners (basically the US and the UK) carefully destabilised the Middle East - it has been wonderful and speaking as a UK resident (half the time) the ONLY fly in the ointment has been the UK, which has refused to join in - part of the whole xenophobic attitude that led to the disastrous Brexit campaign. And as there is free movement between all EU countries, the UK has shot itself in the foot on that one, as there are MANY more UK nationals living in Continental Europe than Europeans from other countries in the UK - and they are actually filling huge areas of employment that UK people won't take on - like working in old people's homes. (In the one my mother is in, the owner has actually tried to get more English people in there, but the only ones she has managed to hire had had such appalling attitudes to old people that she had to let them go. The carers are mostly Romanian and Polish - and she dreads the day she won't be able to hire more of them.) There are a huge number of Brits living in other EU countries. especially pensioners, who are terrified they will be forced to return - not least as the pound collapses and they will find it too expensive

 

The issue with open borders at the moment is that decent countries are taking in a disproportionate number of refugees that we have created by our warmongering, and other countries aren't taking a fair share, so the decent countries (particularly Germany and France) are really feeling the strain. We in the West have exploited Third World countries too long, as well, and our sins are finally coming home to roost. We OWE them.

Share this post


Link to post
the ONLY fly in the ointment has been the UK, which has refused to join in - part of the whole xenophobic attitude that led to the disastrous Brexit campaign.

The biggest issue I have trying to talk about anything is people constantly calling things racist. If you cannot think of a way to talk about things without defaulting to that, there's no leg to stand on.

 

You act like it's so difficult to get a passport or work visa. All open borders do is make it hard to know exactly how many people are in a country, and compromises national security. And with Europe, the EU is effectively trying to make all of Europe one under their authority.. run by people who the citizens actually do not get to vote for.

Also, there are some people that don't want to do grunt work, I'll agree, but that's not true for everyone. The news tried to use fruitpicking as an example- heck, I would fruitpick if I lived in the right area, but sadly I do not. My father also works construction, and immigrants who do not have to pay taxes drive the prices down. I do not care if they want to come here, but they need to pay into the system or the system will run out of money.

There is also a drain of wealth in general- the trade agreements have been dipterous for us.

 

Now, with he middle east itself, I don't think we should be taking all these people in, I think we should be fixing it so they can stay there.

Share this post


Link to post
The biggest issue I have trying to talk about anything is people constantly calling things racist. If you cannot think of a way to talk about things without defaulting to that, there's no leg to stand on.

 

You act like it's so difficult to get a passport or work visa. All open borders do is make it hard to know exactly how many people are in a country, and compromises national security. And with Europe, the EU is effectively trying to make all of Europe one under their authority.. run by people who the citizens actually do not get to vote for.

Also, there are some people that don't want to do grunt work, I'll agree, but that's not true for everyone. The news tried to use fruitpicking as an example- heck, I would fruitpick if I lived in the right area, but sadly I do not. My father also works construction, and immigrants who do not have to pay taxes drive the prices down. I do not care if they want to come here, but they need to pay into the system or the system will run out of money.

There is also a drain of wealth in general- the trade agreements have been dipterous for us.

 

Now, with he middle east itself, I don't think we should be taking all these people in, I think we should be fixing it so they can stay there.

It IS difficult for refugees to get passports and visas. And why do you NEED to know how many people are in the country ? Who cares ? As long as people are working and paying their taxes, and things are running smoothly - it really doesn't matter. National security - phoorey. There was a recent study in the US that showed that all the extra airport security they have brought in has caught - exactly no-one. The people they have caught were the result of tip-offs.

 

As for the racist issue in Britain right now - it is huge and the POLICE are raising the considerable increase in racist and hate crimes since the Brexit vote as an issue of major concern.

 

An example - an Indian woman I know who has lived in the UK for 17 years, paid taxes, naturalised and lives there with her daughter has walked her dog with the locals for years, all very friendly. The day after the vote her neighbours turned to her and asked when she was "going home, we voted against you, you know." She's now afraid to go out; she gets spat on. Did you read the papers on the "Polish Vermin" incidents ?

 

Tell me it isn't OK to say "racism" and Xenophobia here:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36656348

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36964916

 

You may not like the word racism - but it exists and it sucks. I don't know how old you are, but I remember all too well the days when landlords happily advertised for "No blacks, no Irish" - and people are saying they will do so again now. Do tell me what word you would prefer me to use for this kind of censorkip.gif.

 

I agree that we should be doing more to make the Third World countries places where their nationals would want to live - but we don't; we scream about our taxes being wasted on foreigners (there's that thing we aren't supposed to mention again.... the R-word) - so we have to take the consequences.

 

For the record - EU workers in the UK DO pay taxes and NI and the rest. They bring in HUGE amounts of tax that people on welfare don't. If you know some workers in the black economy - well, I know loads of UK citizens working in the black economy too.

Share this post


Link to post

It IS difficult for refugees to get passports and visas.

Refugees I expect would go through a different system otherwise, but their entrance into a country should still be documented.

 

And why do you NEED to know how many people are in the country ? Who cares ? As long as people are working and paying their taxes, and things are running smoothly - it really doesn't matter.

That's the problem though. People aren't paying into the system. If there's some way they are managing to do that in the UK, that's unknown to me, but it's not happening here. Like I said, I don't care what race you are, but become a citizen or get a work visa- and the people paying them under the table are committing a crime and are no better.

 

National security - phoorey. There was a recent study in the US that showed that all the extra airport security they have brought in has caught - exactly no-one. The people they have caught were the result of tip-offs.

They don't come in on aircraft, you can't smuggle weapons or drugs on airlines. They come in at the borders. The borders that you can walk across easily because nobody patrols them.

 

I am not excusing people who do racist things. I'm not saying there are no racists, but the system is not racist, and not everyone who thinks open borders are a bad idea or that they should not take in refugees because of the economic strain is a racist.

We now have laws that prevent people from refusing service based on race and religion, it's not as bad as it was in the past and I feel we'd do better to move forward than keep bringing it up, like picking open a would we do not allow to heal.

 

(edit cause quote tags broke)

Edited by Dragon_Arbock

Share this post


Link to post

I won't be voting for either of the main candidates. I get the outrage leveled at Trump, he's done and said some disgusting things. Hillary's vile too though and even as someone with no bias I can see she gets easier treatment for the crap she's pulled than Trump. I can understand "lesser evil" support for either, and I think for both bases that's the basis for most support.

Share this post


Link to post
They don't come in on aircraft, you can't smuggle weapons or drugs on airlines. They come in at the borders. The borders that you can walk across easily because nobody patrols them.

A large number of illegal immigrants in the US do come on planes. This video explains why a wall won't work:

There's no swearing in the video but there might be in the comments. But it pretty much relates to what you're saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.