2016 Presidential Election

[Hermeline]

I don't live in the US, but I've been following the election and watching the presidential debates. I really wish I had the right to vote in the US, as I'm afraid the outcome will be bad for every other country in this world as well, if Trump is elected ^^"

I'm not sure what to think about Hillary Clinton, but most alledged 'facts' which Trump speaks about seem as if he'd just made them up 10 second before he opens his mouth. He just scares people with made-up facts, then he adds 'believe me' and expects people to vote for him, because he says he'll save everyone.

 

If I was (US)American, I would probably have voted for Bernie Sanders. ^^" I know, he's considered a socialist, but actually some of his ideas are reality here in Germany and they work pretty well- like very good and affordable social insurances and no tuition fees.

For example, almost everyone here has a health insurance that covers close to everything (except maybe plastic surgery without medical need, or new glasses), even the poorest people. If you're out of work or too sick to work, you get enough money to buy food and to pay for a small apartment as long as you need it- provided you prove that you keep trying to get a job. Students don't pay tuition fees. Poor university students get a state credit that pays for their living, provided that they work hard and finish within a certain amount of time. The maximum amount of debt you can make that way is 10 000€ ( = about 11 000 $). After that, you'll still get money to help you study, but you don't have to pay it back.

Now, Germany is a democracy and it's not as rich as people everywhere else in this world seem to think ^^" There are a few rich people, but also about 40% who live just above the poverty line. Germany, unfortunately, is not the paradise it's said to be.

However, social security and free universities are possible here, and it's not considered socialist at all.

Far not everyone here is interested the US election, but those of my friends who are, were a bit surprised that Bernie Sanders is said to be a socialist, because all of his ideas sound so completely normal to someone who has grown up in Germany...

 

Anyway, I'm curious to see the outcome of the Presidential Election in the US!

[Obscure_Trash]

What exactly do you mean?

Elections run on money, which is why PACS and superPACs have so much power and why (corporate) lobbyists are so common. None of which actually help the average American citizen, as those with more money earn more of the government's ear. It's why it's been such a big deal that Obama and then Sanders got so much of their money from grassroots efforts. In a capitalistic system, especially one that has gotten to the point (as ours has) where corporations are considered people within the framework of having legal rights, the government is always going to do more to protect corporations than people because that's how they get money.

Edited October 23, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[TCA]

In a capitalistic system, especially one that has gotten to the point (as ours has) where corporations are considered people within the framework of having legal rights, the government is always going to do more to protect corporations than people because that's how they get money.

You wouldn't have to get rid of capitalism if there was campaign finance reform such that corporate interests were restricted or dissuaded from individual campaign expenditures. Someone in my Philosophy of Law class came up with the idea that corporate or large individual expenditures could be subject to a large tax and that tax could be turned into vouchers given to the public to give to whatever candidate they believe in for financing. If that could be put into place, then sure, Corporation Whatever could spend a million dollars to buy ads for their candidate... and it'd be taxed another million, which people could give to the candidate that supports their interests, like Bernie or whoever.

 

It's not a black or white problem with two solutions, capitalism or lack of it, it's a massively complicated system with variations at every step, yo.

Edited October 23, 2016 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[Obscure_Trash]

You wouldn't have to get rid of capitalism if there was campaign finance reform such that corporate interests were restricted or dissuaded from individual campaign expenditures. Someone in my Philosophy of Law class came up with the idea that corporate or large individual expenditures could be subject to a large tax and that tax could be turned into vouchers given to the public to give to whatever candidate they believe in for financing. If that could be put into place, then sure, Corporation Whatever could spend a million dollars to buy ads for their candidate... and it'd be taxed another million, which people could give to the candidate that supports their interests, like Bernie or whoever.

 

It's not a black or white problem with two solutions, capitalism or lack of it, it's a massively complicated system with variations at every step, yo.

In capitalism, people, particularly the wealthy, will strive to get more wealthy - which is how we ended up giving corporations rights in the first place. No, no system is inherently good or evil, but at some point, the benefits of capitalism outweigh themselves and the system becomes stagnant and we end up with things like uncontrolled superPACs. Like, yeah, with a few laws and regulations, this system of corporations controlling the government could be dismanted, but how? Those benefiting from corporations-have-rights-law and superPACs and corporate lobbyists are the ones that have the money and therefore control the future of their rights. With the current system, there's no real way to really put in place such reform that you're talking about because those that are benefiting from the system don't want to regulate it in a way that would hurt themselves and they're the ones paying for candidates and elections, so they're the ones whose voices are not only heard but being listened to.

 

 

[georgexu94]

Yeah, but I can wish. >.> I mean, this election is so bad it's borderline unbelievable and there are no viable third options.

Sadly, even having a lot of options will not do much. Take the Philippine elections. We had six candidates. One, dead. Another, in her sick state (just passed away), the rest... not so much. And now, we had an elected president who lashes out on foreign countries. *sigh* ( Poor, Mr. Obama) But you get the point. You just have to select the lesser evil. You pick which is better. There will always be something bad in a candidate.

 

Well, since I'm not an American, I cannot comment on who I like or leaning to- no, that is my restriction.

Edited October 24, 2016 by georgexu94

[purplehaze]

I hope everyone registered to vote on Nov. 8 will take the time to go to their poll and vote. We keep hearing young voters are so turned off by both candidates,so they won't vote.

That is such a waste of your rights, I urge everyone that can vote to please do so.

Agreed!

 

Even if you are turned off by the presidential candidates, it is just as essential to vote for local and state offices, as well as Senate and Representatives. They affect our lives in so many ways as much as the president does.

 

Not going to comment on the presidential candidates as I have nothing good to say. I will vote for Hillary to avoid The Donald, but it will leave a very bad taste in my mouth.

Edited October 24, 2016 by purplehaze

[Kestra15]

...Trump speaks about seem as if he'd just made them up 10 second before he opens his mouth.

I like that you credit him with even that much forethought

[TheScorpionKing]

FYI

 

There are 5 candidates

running for President of the USA.

 

Gary Johnson on the Libertarian Party

 

Jill Stein on the Green Party

 

Hillary Clinton on the Democratic Party

 

Gloria Estela L Riva on the Peace and Freedom Party

 

Donald Trump on the Republican/American Independent Party

[olympe]

There may be 5 candidates, but how many of them have a shot at winning?

 

Being not American, either, I'm rather afraid of what will happen to the rest of the world if Trump becomes the next US president. Really, it's the stuff of nightmares.

 

Regarding corporations becoming too powerful: That's why I, and many other European citizens (who're not politicians, that is) are totally against CETA and TTIP.

[Vhale]

FYI 

 

There are 5 candidates

running for President of the USA.

 

Gary Johnson on the Libertarian Party

 

Jill Stein on the Green Party

 

Hillary Clinton on the Democratic Party

 

Gloria Estela L Riva on the Peace and Freedom Party

 

Donald Trump on the Republican/American Independent Party

6 actually. You forgot Evan McMullin who feasibly could have a shot at the white house if Trump and Hillary tie. And might be the first third party candidate to take a state in recent times.

 

FiveThirtyEight did a write up on him. He's kind of a reformed? conservative candidate who feels the main party has gone over the edge. He was a missionary and a CIA agent. I'm sure he has some good stories, if they weren't classified.

 

Here's the write-up.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-ev...the-presidency/

Edited October 25, 2016 by Vhale

[TheScorpionKing]

6 actually. You forgot Evan McMullin who feasibly could have a shot at the white house if Trump and Hillary tie. And might be the first third party candidate to take a state in recent times.

 

Thanks.

I didn't forget,

I had no idea.

I voted already and he wasn't on my ballot.

Interesting candidate.

 

[Vhale]

It's a shame more don't know, he's gotten some press but I think he's only on the ballot in 12 states. In a way, he's like Bernie. He started to push the main party back on track. He just got started a little late. But if he can take Utah that will be awesome and probably help give people more incentive to look at 3rd party candidates. As is, too many people don't vote.

[georgexu94]

I am very confused now. During the Philippine elections, there were five candidates that were always on television, radio, and media. I was shocked when there was a sixth candidate when I got hold of the ballot. But well, understandably he was left out as he died on February 2016. (The ballot was made around December 2015).

 

But what is this about five or six (whatever) candidates and all we hear is Trump vs. Hillary? Where is the choice to vote for the other three or four?

[Obscure_Trash]

I am very confused now. During the Philippine elections, there were five candidates that were always on television, radio, and media. I was shocked when there was a sixth candidate when I got hold of the ballot. But well, understandably he was left out as he died on February 2016. (The ballot was made around December 2015).

 

But what is this about five or six (whatever) candidates and all we hear is Trump vs. Hillary? Where is the choice to vote for the other three or four?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-...-very-unlikely/

 

We act as a two party system, where the two parties have the majority of people and money. Without money (and people with money backing you), you can't get debate time/media. If you can't get debate time/media, you can't get people. If you can't get people, you can't get money. If you can't get money, you can't get debate time/media. It's a vicious cycle.

[Switch]

I am very confused now. During the Philippine elections, there were five candidates that were always on television, radio, and media. I was shocked when there was a sixth candidate when I got hold of the ballot. But well, understandably he was left out as he died on February 2016. (The ballot was made around December 2015).

 

But what is this about five or six (whatever) candidates and all we hear is Trump vs. Hillary? Where is the choice to vote for the other three or four?

the others aren't talked about because they're not the democratic or republican candidate (aka the only two candidates who actually have a chance at election)

most people know they have no chance, not to mention stein and johnson are both relatively unpopular, so nobody really bothers with them. unless someone feels like doing a protest vote (bad idea alert)

Edited October 26, 2016 by Switch

[georgexu94]

That's a very interesting article, Sock! Only it gave me a headache in the middle with the Political Science.

[SullenCat]

6 actually. You forgot Evan McMullin who feasibly could have a shot at the white house if Trump and Hillary tie. And might be the first third party candidate to take a state in recent times.

 

FiveThirtyEight did a write up on him. He's kind of a reformed? conservative candidate who feels the main party has gone over the edge. He was a missionary and a CIA agent. I'm sure he has some good stories, if they weren't classified.

 

Here's the write-up.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-ev...the-presidency/

I'm not in Utah and that's the only place where Evan McMullin has a chance. He is an unknown quantity and didn't go under any kind of scrutiny. Could be nothing, anything or, probably, just another racist misogynistic conservative.

[hazeh]

Let's keep this on topic about the US Presidential Election. Further discussion about political terminology can be continued in the general Politics thread.

 

I used to not like Hillary very much, but after these debates and learning more about the situations, I actually like her as a candidate. I am happy now with my decision to vote for her. I hope that when/if she gets elected, we can vote in a democratic congress to get stuff done finally and some worthy judges on the SC.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[SullenCat]

I used to not like Hillary very much, but after these debates and learning more about the situations, I actually like her as a candidate. I am happy now with my decision to vote for her. I hope that when/if she gets elected, we can vote in a democratic congress to get stuff done finally and some worthy judges on the SC.

Hillary was not my favorite option. At all. Bernie was not either. I would have chosen Michelle Obama or Elizabeth Warren even if those strong women can be scary. Alas, that was not an option, I'm hoping for 2020. Hillary, if she gets elected, will be 73, maybe she will choose legacy instead of power. We will see.

On the Republican side... echoing Colin Powell, Trump is a National Disgrace. Ted Cruz wasn't much better and Kasich never got a chance.

On the Libertarian side, will be hard to forget Gary Johnson's "What's Aleppo?". And Jill Stein's investments speak louder than her words.

Hillary is far from perfect. She is a politician. She is experienced and qualified. I expect she will continue Obama's legacy. And all that's not too bad from my point of view.

[Dark-Shadow]

Hillary was not my favorite option. At all. Bernie was not either. I would have chosen Michelle Obama or Elizabeth Warren even if those strong women can be scary. Alas, that was not an option, I'm hoping for 2020. Hillary, if she gets elected, will be 73, maybe she will choose legacy instead of power. We will see.

On the Republican side... echoing Colin Powell, Trump is a National Disgrace. Ted Cruz wasn't much better and Kasich never got a chance.

On the Libertarian side, will be hard to forget Gary Johnson's "What's Aleppo?". And Jill Stein's investments speak louder than her words.

Hillary is far from perfect. She is a politician. She is experienced and qualified. I expect she will continue Obama's legacy. And all that's not too bad from my point of view.

I agree with this whole heartedly

[Lurhstaap]

I'll probably get a kick out of wearing my I'd Rather Be Voting For Bernie shirt on the 8th. But it's only half-humorous.

 

Ugh. I'm about to turn 32 and I've voted in every election I've been eligible to vote in, all presidential ones and almost all the others, even local-only ones, since I was old enough. This is the first year where I'm really not that happy about my vote. I even sincerely liked Kerry, not just voting anti-Bush. But this year I'm voting more anti-Trump than pro-Clinton. Not that I believe most of the BS going around about her, but still, she's a lot harder to openly and wholeheartedly support. It's a bummer.

 

Also bummed about CA legalization. Either pass a horrible bill or continue the unacceptable status quo.

 

Not a fun election this year.

[Obscure_Trash]

For some reason I had it in my mind that the election was the 16th, not the 8th, so I'm really pushing it to get my request for an absentee ballot in on time (I'm moving in a few months, so didn't see the point in registering with this address). Fingers crossed my request will be received on time!

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

In complete honesty at this point I see it as a little terrifying to vote anyone other than Clinton as it would seem Trump has a scarily close chance of winning. While I understand many would rather be voting a third party than Clinton, that decision is more likely to secure a win for Trump than do anything of hope, as it's obvious now that a third party would not stand a chance. I myself would rather see Bernie Sanders debating Trump than Clinton, but alas that is not the case, and Sanders himself has said that if any voters are considering not voting Democrats because he is not the leader, or protest-voting third party, he urges them to still vote for Clinton. Even the President, First Lady, and Vice-President have urged we vote for Clinton. Because quite frankly let's face it, as much as many people dislike her, she'll make a far better President than Trump.; at least she's a politician, not an inexperienced businessman fuelled on money and racism.

[Infinis]

The pro-sexual-assult rhetoric that's come from Trump is viscerally disgusting and gives me reason to legitimately fear a Trump presidency, especially since I'm female.

 

I don't want Trump or someone else with such an anti-women stance - or even what appears to be one - in office.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Infinis

[StormBirdRising]

I have a few things to say.

 

She's accomplished this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp (That's 46 people.)

 

She lies.

 

And we have to stop her. #HillaryForPrison2016

It is so sad but so true.

 

She left an American ambassador unprotected in Libya when other nations were pulling their ambassadors and personnel out because the situation was so volatile and dangerous. Well organized terror cells, that the CIA warned her about at least three months prior to Ambassador Chris Stevens being murdered and dragged through the streets, knew that the Ambassador was not protected and knew the location of the covert CIA base in close proximity to him by the emails they read that were not encrypted and were not even sent on a secure server because she used her own personal cell phone in violation of federal law to send and receive classified information.

 

Then she lied about it, then she lied about it again, and then she lied about it under oath several times. And then when she got caught said "What difference does it make?"

 

I don't want another inept, incompetent, smile in your face while she stabs you in the back, President. That's why I voted for Donald Trump.

 

I couldn't vote fast enough for Donald Trump. He has unveiled his child care plan which allows parents, any parents, to take their child care expenses right off the top from their income tax, he employs thousands of women at equal pay with their male counterparts, his health insurance plan for his employees is unrivaled, and I know where he stands on every issue.

 

Mr. Trump will stop gutting Social Security and Medicare like the current administration has been doing, he will stop escalating the wars on terror that are doing nothing but getting more young men and women killed and he will stop the influx of anti-Americans into this country.

 

Some people just can't handle the truth and when they hear it they just dismiss it.