Breeding with wild dragons

[Jazeki]

 

Also... what use can be done of wild dragons? I found only that we can observe them. Is that seriously everything, that can be done with them? Their number grows in time, so I believe that the possibility that one wild dragon will have a lot children with tamed ones will keep decarasing or remain still. Don't really believe that it would rise too much.

Yes. They are really there for just observing. Sometimes they breed eggs, but not often. They are mostly a help for people looking to fill out the encyclopedia.

 

 

I like VixenDra's idea of a breeding stable so that people can agree to send dragons to be bred instead of releasing them with the intention to never breed again only to find that someone else has bred them.

 

 

[TheToxicCycle]

I am against having wild dragons becoming breedable. The answers of why that is has already been answered by others who have commented on this thread.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/nRb8g Lol what about this wild one's linage? Looove to have had it!

Edited August 25, 2015 by TheToxicCycle

[Verridith]

I am actually completely for this.

 

I do like the idea of not being able to know what dragon breeds your dragon - wild dragons are wild, and it makes sense from a lore perspective.

 

And to those who don't want their 'monogamous' dragon pairings ruined, they don't have to breed to wild dragons. But it would be an option for the rest of us who do want it.

[dragongrrl]

As I stated in the thread, the last time this idea came around, no.

 

The very few dragons that I released some years ago were released with the express purpose of insuring that they were never bred.

[stagazer_7]

NO, i released my dragons in the wilderness for really good reasons or in one case a hatchling as an accident but now this hatchling has eternal youth and is free and will get all the love it needs from wild dragons.

 

As Silverswift mentioned some users would HATE to see more offsprings or an offspring at all on a dragon that once belonged to them. Count me to these users.

 

I rather kill my dragons then releasing them if they are breedable with dragons on a scroll. 

 

And so many Wild Dragons have sooooooooo messy lineages that is horrible.

I agree with you on this - while I feel that once a dragon has been abandoned it has exactly zero to do with its previous owner from that point on, I also think that since wild dragons have always been unbreedable many people chose to release them believing other players would not be able to tamper with them and so it would not be fair to suddenly flip the table on them and make them breedable. I feel that if Wilderness breeding became possible it should not affect any of the dragons that were already released, only the dragons abandoned from that point on (with an option for a players to still be able to decide whether the dragon they release would be available for breeding or not).

 

This would create a kind of sub-biome in the current Wilderness where there'd be wild dragons that'd be available for breeding (VixenDra described this better with their breeding stable idea). I really don't see how this would cause any harm the current Wilderness or the dragons dwelling within it.

 

And while I'd like to be able to choose my own mate (it'd make lineage work far easier), I'm starting to see how random breeding could be unique to this sub-biome. I'd send my dragon to the Wild and it'd produce a random egg with a mate of his/her choosing, could be a pretty 2nd gen or a messy 12th gen, one would never know (& of course, this should all be completely voluntary, with no chance of a players dragons just randomly producing offspring with Wild ones).

Edited August 25, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Morell]

It is on the table for the sixth time? Well, guess that if it won't get somehow added, it will appear here again.

 

To me it seems that here are two groups of people:

those, who still see fred dragons like their possesion, which, I believe it is not and those, who are for the idea.

Clear bloodline is hard to make, nothing against it. I'm myself not for random breeding happening without will of user, but to make it as a action, like standart breeding. I also have one such line.

But seriously, I understand that it is for you opinion to stop breeding your dragons, but you can do so with your scrooled dragons too. Heh, Did you know that all your photos on FB are possesion of that company and it can do whatever they want with it? You released the dragons into the wildness, they are yours no more. You can do nothing with them You have no right at them.

 

I still believe that they should be of more use, than just "exponates for observing"

[Tehya Faye]

I see absolutely no point in this whatsoever. The wild dragons breeding (on their own, not with our dragons) was back when the cave was young and the AP was empty, now there are more than enough dragons to go around. Why do the wild dragons need some sort of purpose beyond observing? The graveyard doesn't serve any purpose, and yet it is there for flavor. The wilderness is the same.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Kovia]

I don't see the use of this either, for several reasons.

 

1: Wild dragons are wild for a reason, whether that's unwantedness or messy lineage.

2: The idea of selecting randomly would almost never result in well-lineaged eggs.

3: The only point I could see would be to let people use the CB rares/holidays in there, but this is cancelled out by the randomness.

4: If it wasn't random, people would go after the same set of dragons.

5: People can easily get CBs of most breeds and breed themselves. The only exception are rares and holidays, which are supposed to stay rare.

6: I've never seen an idea that involves wild dragons that didn't get shot down.

7: Based on statements about dragons tossing out eggs that smell like humans, I highly doubt a wild dragon would show any interest in a domestic one.

8: Domestic dragons probably behave differently than wild ones, so it's doubtful that they would be able to succeed at competing over mates on a regular basis. Maybe the ones that select based on looks, but not the more violent displays.

9: Many breeds are territorial and would likely chase the domestic "intruder" away.

[CNR4806]

Once again, I'd only agree to this if all wild dragons that were released prior to the implementation of this are eternally-barred from being a part of the system, or if all wild dragons are killed off, starting the wilderness anew.

 

The entire point of the release feature up to this point is to remove a dragon from your scroll without using the kill action. In essence, people are using it because they want a particular dragon but couldn't get themselves to kill it. The users who release their dragons expect them to be forever removed from the playable dragon pool, unable to be stolen or interacted with in any meaningful way by other users.

 

The implementation of any such interaction would drastically change the meaning of the wilderness and by extension the release feature, and I feel such protection/loose-end cutting to the existing wild dragons is essential. (Any user who release their dragons after implementation of user-wild breeding have no right to complain. They would know the possibility of those dragons being bred to user-owned ones and should have used Kill instead if they don't want it.)

Edited August 25, 2015 by CNR4806

[Syphoneira]

Lol, this is kind of what we do on Earth; crowd wildlife into ever-smaller areas and then instead of at least letting them be themselves in that area, have to find some way of using them for our benefit, because the rest of the world isn't enough for us.

 

Why do to DC what we've done to our planet - why not just let the Wilderness dragons (which many of us like imagine as happily living in untrammeled freedom, as we may have done when Releasing our inbreds and other breeding boo-boos, and as people with burnt scrolls may have imagined for comfort once their dragons were Released rather than killed,) simply be free, and content ourselves with the more domesticated dragons already generally happy to go along with whatever we ask of them?

 

We'd probably do better in the real world as well by changing the mind-set that everything needs to be obviously and directly useful to humanity (apart from life itself forming our life support system, something apparently overlooked by far too many people,) and realizing that we - all natural life forms - share the world and that nobody, no species, and no ecology/wilderness area needs to justify their existence to us by being directly of immediate use to us personally.

[olympe]

In that scenario, yeah, we shouldn't be able to choose. If dragons wanna mate they are gonna mate. Especially wilds. That is the *only* way I can see this logically working, is if it's some random wild dragon wandering about and we don't choose which dragon. .... Which is probably exactly what people in favor of Wilderness Breeding *don't* want.

Random "wild" mates are the only way I can see this happening. However, I think a truly random breeding that you didn't even initiate would be most logical. (Maybe, to prevent mishaps resulting in auto-abandoned eggs for you, this should only happen on the full hour, though?)

 

Like this: You go to sleep and have one open egg slot. When you come back on the next day, you get this message: "[insert dragon name here] spontaneously bred with a wild dragon, producing this egg."

 

 

Regarding the "Oh no, I released my dragons for a reason!" group, I'd like to point out two facts:

1) If it's off your scroll, it's no longer yours. You have no power to decide what happens to that dragon.

2) Wilderness breeding is already a thing, since sometimes wild dragons breed with other wild dragons to fill the AP. (Probably not any more, since the AP is always full - but it used to happen. Nothing new here.)

 

 

Regardless of that, I'm not a big fan of this suggestion. The only way it would be of benefit is if you could choose the mate (like CB rares, low-gen hollies/frills/bright pinks) - but then, we'd have a rush to get all the good ones, leaving most non-stalker players eating the dust. With randomness, there's the big problem that most of your random eggs will have one parent with a horribly messy and/or inbred lineage, which is not something many people would want. (In essence, you'd probably abandon the egg anyway, increasing the amount of junk in the AP - which is not a good thing anyway.) So, in order to prevent people from spam-breeding their whole scroll to wild dragons in the hope of hitting gold, the resulting eggs would need to be made un-abandonable. (Because, well, you chose to take the risk, so it's only fair that you need to take care of the consequences.)

 

 

So, overall, there is very little benefit, but a lot of stuff to take care of to make this suggestion workable. In essence, I don't think it's worth it, so I'm neutral (with a tendency towards "against").

 

Edited due to my own idiocy. Don't ask.

Edited August 25, 2015 by olympe

[stagazer_7]

I've been thinking about this some more and this is how I imagine potential Wilderness breeding...

 

1. Players themselves would gradually create a pool of available breedable wild dragons by deciding which of their to be abandoned dragons would be able to breed with domestic ones after their release - a simple Yes/No to this question just before the dragon leaves the scroll and becomes wild.

 

2. There have been several breeding mechanics suggested, from completely random to being able to pick a specific mate. Since I like having my cake and eating it too, I kind of like the idea of having something in the middle - a dragon seeking a wild mate could possibly attract an x number of wild dragons and a player would be able to choose which one among them their dragon would be bred with.

 

I imagine there being an option along the lines of 'Seek a wild mate' under the dragon's actions and after that you'd get a message similar to 'Your dragon ventured into the Wilderness... but did not find any mates/catching the eye of some wild dragons.'. After picking a mate, the breeding would be the same as it normally is, with a varying success of a pair actually producing any offspring.

 

3. The number of attracted wild dragons would not be a fixed, sometimes there'd be no attracted mates, other times several - attracting mates should probably be a bit of a challenge, I won't go into numbers and percentages here, but not attracting any mates would most likely be common, one mate uncommon/rare, several of them rare/very rare

 

What I'm against:

- Current Wild dragons suddenly becoming breedable - I personally don't care if the few dragons I released would be used for breeding purposes, but many players would hate it if their abandoned dragons were used this way and so I'd rather not see an idea that would leave a part of a player base angry and disappointed realized - it just not a very nice thing to do and I find DC and its community very friendly and overall awesome, this (and my lineages) is what's keeping me around for so many years <3-

- Killing existing wild dragon in order to create a new wilderness - I'd be really sad to see this happen, plus it'd probably wreck more then a few lineages

- Uninitiated domestic/wild dragon breeding - I imagine many players have plans with at least few of their dragons and it would be a real pain to have to wait for an extra week because that one dragon you've been waiting for to breed the entire week went and produced an egg from a random wild dragon (or no egg, but still wasted a breeding turn)

 

What I'm not too keen on, but not strictly against:

- Un-abandonable eggs from domestic/wild dragon pairings - this doesn't happen with any other bred eggs, so I don't really see why it should be applied here either (especially if wild breeding success rate would be uncommon or low)

 

I imagine this would not be of any use to a many players - I completely agree with the previous poster, the benefits here indeed are pretty low (and with it the chances of an idea such as this ever becoming realized), especially if current wild dragons were out of the picture (so no chance of prowling on those rare/retired prancing about in the wild ), but if it wouldn't be too challenging to program, it could be a neat little addition to have - people make lineages of all sort of things (just look at those pretty tombstone/Prize based lines), so this would be just an additional option for any who'd be interested to have.

 

 

[NotBambi]

If we were able to flag a dragon that we are releasing to the wild as "breedable" or "neutered" and if all the dragons released before the implementation of this were automatically considered "neutered", I would not complain. BUT I would like also a flag to allow or not a wild dragon to stop by and breed one in my scroll.

Still, there are probably twenty or such suggestions that I would like to see implemented before thsi one. So, still meh...

Edited August 25, 2015 by NotBambi

[Tigerkralle]

All of us know that killing a specific dragon can be tricky? There are dragons who are very skillful dodgers when we stab ours dragons. Realeasing is one of the very few actions with a 100% success rate! Some dragons are in the Wilderness because they are too stubborn to die.

 

I am really against a ramdom breeding out of our control. We have to have the control which dragon breeds with the mate that we choose.

For this suggestions there should be a at the very bottom the Mysterious Stranger as a mate for the dragon (be it dragon, pygmy, two-headed or drake) that we want to let have a offspring.

[Obscure_Trash]

Popping back in to say it's interesting to not be able to pick the dragon from the wilderness and would make me more comfortable with this (I agree - dragons not on your scroll are not yours anymore). However, imagine all the commons/inbreds/messies in the wilderness. I can't imagine the random dragon you pick to breed ending up with a wilderness lineage that matches its own, which would make this not too desireable for that many people. Which defeats the purpose of the suggestion and leads me back to: no.

 

If you want to interact with wilderness dragons, there is this suggestion. Or even naming wilderness dragons in Site Discussion. =p

[DragonLady86]

I'm against breeding wild dragons. If it was random I would have less problem with it, but I still think it is a silly idea. Most wild dragons have inbred or messy lineages (which doesn't bother me) that many users find distasteful. You can say they aren't on anyone's scroll and so their former owners can't control them/if they can breed. But the opposite is also true: as they are not on YOUR scroll, why should they breed for you/you be able to control their breeding?

 

 

Also, wild dragons DO breed. Or at least they used to. It used to be possible to find eggs from them on occasion in the AP. Now that the AP is always full I don't know if that still happens or not.

[VixenDra]

Random "wild" mates are the only way I can see this happening. However, I think a truly random breeding that you didn't even initiate would be most logical. (Maybe, to prevent mishaps resulting in auto-abandoned eggs for you, this should only happen on the full hour, though?)

 

Like this: You go to sleep and have one open egg slot. When you come back on the next day, you get this message: "[insert dragon name here] spontaneously bred with a wild dragon, producing this egg."

NO!!!!

 

This is exactly what is an exaple of a destructive, cetrain-existing-gameplay-styles-ruining suggestion:/

 

If we can have the right to choose to breed our dragons like low animals and kind of at random, fine but we can also breed them as sentient creatures and be careful which we breed to which, and it should stay that way - players having a choice.

 

And you're talking about destroying the gameplays featuring monogamy, breeding restricted to chosen mates and similar in favour of some random, wild-breeding that would not even have a fair chance for giving a nice lineage(both mates randomly chosen makes it even less possible than just the wild dragon being random) - what could be the possible benefit of that 'spontaneus breeding'? A 0,0000001% chance of a nice lineaged egg? All I can see is only the disastrous con of excluding certain gameplays... Incliding mine.

 

 

I might only see that randomness that way:

you get notified that some stranger male/female came near your cave and it's very interested in one of your females/males. You have an option to let it in to breed or to force it to leave. If you don't take an action, the wild dragon gets bored and just leaves.

So noone is forced to have their gameplays destroyed.

But I'd still wouldn't like even this to happen to my cave.

Edited August 27, 2015 by VixenDra

[Tigerkralle]

What? You know that there are breeding projects where every member has to make sure that the lineage is pure? I am participating in "The Breast Cancer Hope Lineage" for example and a true Hope dragon will have ONE mate for his/her entire life and it is a very pure clean lineage. THIS would destroy our project! My grandmother had breast cancer she was a survivor and died a few years ago but man i named a dragon after my grandmother and i really do not want to discover that she breed with any other dragon that i named after my grandfather...

 

To put it simple DO NOT PUT US IN A SITUATION WHERE WE DO NOT HAVE CONTROL OVER THIS SITUATION.

It is like in real life everyone is frightening and went mad really mad and really unpredictable when you put a humand being into a situation where this human being has no control over this situation.

 

Man i really need to improve my English i am not a native speaker in English.

[CNR4806]

[Previous reply removed due to missing a critical point on the quoted post. This is why posting without double-checking after 6am without sleeping is a bad idea.]

 

NO!!!!

 

This is exactly what is an exaple of a destructive, cetrain-existing-gameplay-styles-ruining suggestion:/

 

If we can have the right to choose to breed our dragons like low animals and kind of at random, fine but we can also breed them as sentient creatures and be careful which we breed to which, and it should stay that way - players having a choice.

 

And you're talking about destroying the gameplays featuring monogamy, breeding restricted to chosen mates and similar in favour of some random, wild-breeding that would not even have a fair chance for giving a nice lineage(both mates randomly chosen makes it even less possible than just the wild dragon being random) - what could be the possible benefit of that 'spontaneus breeding'? A 0,0000001% chance of a nice lineaged egg? All I can see is only the disastrous con of excluding certain gameplays... Incliding mine.

 

 

I might only see that randomness that way:

you get notified that some stranger male/female came near your cave and it's very interested in one of your females/males. You have an option to let it in to breed or to force it to leave. If you don't take an action, the wild dragon gets bored and just leaves.

So noone is forced to have their gameplays destroyed.

But I'd still wouldn't like even this to happen to my cave.

 

Well, I agree with this one, even though personally I don't agree with your idea of sentient creature interaction.

 

Player should retain control over the execution of any given action, be it grabbing an egg, abandoning something, releasing something, killing something or breeding a pair of dragons. Randomness should only come into play for the outcome (e.g. an egg killed by EQ or bite, breeding results, GoN summon) as it is currently, and potentially the availability of an action as you suggested.

Edited August 27, 2015 by CNR4806

[olympe]

Well, I was just pointing out in which way the option of wilderness breeding would make sense lore-wise (or even logic-wise). I also mentioned that I'm not a fan of wilderness breeding, so don't pelt me with moldy cheese or start an outcry over being able to control what's yours - and even over what isn't, namely the wild dragon you want to be able to breed with.

[Twyro]

I disagree with this basically since it makes very little to no sense. Once a dragon is released and turns wild, it won't listen to any people trying to control its behavior or habits. Following that logic you couldn't possibly make it breed with one of your dragons. To make it obey you you'd have to tame a wild dragon first, but since that doesn't exist, this is really unsustainable as an idea in my opinion.

[purplehaze]

I'm not sure that wild dragons would need anyone to make them breed. Given the opportunity to meet up with a compatible mate, they might be quite eager to breed on their own. So if one of our tame dragons should wander into the wilderness . . .

 

I'm not really for this suggestion, either, though. I am totally against being able to select a mate for your dragon from the wilderness and random breeding would be much more likely to result in something really messy than in a desirable lineage.

[stagazer_7]

Player should retain control over the execution of any given action, be it grabbing an egg, abandoning something, releasing something, killing something or breeding a pair of dragons. Randomness should only come into play for the outcome (e.g. an egg killed by EQ or bite, breeding results, GoN summon) as it is currently, and potentially the availability of an action as you suggested.

Agreed.

 

I'm not sure that wild dragons would need anyone to make them breed. Given the opportunity to meet up with a compatible mate, they might be quite eager to breed on their own. So if one of our tame dragons should wander into the wilderness . . .

These are my thoughts too.

 

As for the common belief (including my own) that pretty much all wild dragons have horrible, messy lineages... I got curious so I went and randomly selected 3 different dragons after refreshing the Wilderness for 3 times and this is what I got:

 

Take No.1

 

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3

 

Take No. 2

 

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3

 

Take No. 3

 

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3

 

Now, maybe I got lucky once, but in all three tries?

 

Took one more shot, because I felt too lucky and this is what I got:

 

Take No.4

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3 (now this is just getting silly)

 

I probably got insanely lucky, but this showed me that people release all kinds of dragons into the Wild, not just messy ones, for reasons that are their own. So, should Wilderness breeding become possible and the players be given a chance to decide which of their released dragons would be available for breeding (I still feel that any already released dragons up to that point should be automatically considered as non-breedable and that players should have a right to decide whether their dragon will or won't be able to breed with domestic dragons after their release), a breedable part of the Wilderness could become a pretty neat place and the chance that your dragon would attract a mate with a decent lineage would perhaps not be all that bad.

 

I think I already said that, but I don't believe this type of breeding would be attractive to many people and should the choice of mate a player's dragon attracts be randomized, it also would not present a shortcut to obtaining rare dragons. It would just be another breeding option a player has, but is not obligated to use and it would not mess with the Wilderness as it already is.

Edited August 30, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Syphoneira]

I believe that the adult dragons from burnt scrolls go the Wilderness rather than being killed, so that might account for some of the CBs/nice lineages.

 

(Still totally believe that the Wild dragons should not be forced into use by humans, just be viewed in the Wild rather than having to be a useful asset - that's one of the unique charms which makes DC special, in my opinion.)

[VixenDra]

As for the common belief (including my own) that pretty much all wild dragons have horrible, messy lineages... I got curious so I went and randomly selected 3 different dragons after refreshing the Wilderness for 3 times and this is what I got:

 

Take No.1

 

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3

 

Take No. 2

 

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3

 

Take No. 3

 

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3

 

Now, maybe I got lucky once, but in all three tries?

 

Took one more shot, because I felt too lucky and this is what I got:

 

Take No.4

dragon 1

dragon 2

dragon 3 (now this is just getting silly)

 

I probably got insanely lucky,

Yes, your luck is beyond normal, I think.

 

What I got was messies only, even though I got 2 golds whitch which are not worth breeding with...:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/iQPDs (messy Angel)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/jp1b (messy Gold)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/qdQq (messy Gold)

 

Anyway, I believe that the only reason we have so many released dragons is that people, knowing released dragons are out of reach to anyone, preffered to release than kill. I bet that if now wilderness breeding was introduced, the percentage of kills over releases would raise dramatically. Which would, as a result, affect much more of the living dragons' lineages, which would be devastating. We don't like randomly 'deceased' in the lineages, do we? Espcially if the non-deceased version was pretty and we used the dragon for some great project... Which now got ruined just because sb wanted to get rid of a dragon but didn't want to let it be bred by others, so one killed the dragon istead of just releasing it.

 

Another good reason for NO.

 

From what I can see, potential pros are nothing to potential cons. Such feature could bring too much bad over good.

 

I insist on chanigng the suggestion into adding a new kid of 'biome'(/page/area) called 'breeding stables' I mentioned before, which would create a third 'get rid of a dragon from your scroll' option which wouldn't affect the wilderness and wouldn't rise the kills ratio.

This way noone would be harmed and some people would be happy for breeding opportunity with some dragon outside of their scroll.

Edited September 1, 2015 by VixenDra