Captcha for the Cave

[CNR4806]

Captcha on an action that a user is expected to perform many times in rapid succession is complete overkill. You'd kill off the site's normal population much quicker than you put off scripters.

 

Stop subscribing to this Scripter Scare and these over-the-top "solutions" already.

Edited August 5, 2015 by CNR4806

[JavaTigress]

Captcha on an action that a user is expected to perform many times in rapid succession is complete overkill. You'd kill off the site's normal population much quicker than you put off scripters.

 

Stop subscribing to this Scripter Scare and these over-the-top "solutions" already.

This.

 

It seems to me that even IF it was a demonstrable problem ( WHICH I am not sure that we have proven that there is) with scripting, there would HAVE to be less drastic, and off putting, ways of solving it.

[NotBambi]

That said, I don't think this is a solution that's particularly effective, for a problem that is being overblown compared to how bad things actually are.

^This^.

 

No support for the suggestion.

[Kovia]

No. Just... no. For several reasons.

 

A: I highly doubt that bots are that much of a problem. Even if someone is botting, once they get caught any CB rares they got can be deleted, presumably spawning replacements in the cave due to ratios.

 

B: Show me one person who actually likes captchas. Can't be done.

 

C: Massive inconvenience for little reason.

 

D: Pretty sure some people (likely mobile users) would have issues getting the captchas to load. Or they would at the least be very laggy, potentially making them miss their window of opportunity to catch the egg.

 

E: This would probably only work if the egg became reserved while the person was prompted for the captcha, and like TJ and a few others pointed out, the person using the bot would just keep an eye on it and type the code when they snagged something, defeating the point.

 

F: Would eat up some of TJ's time to implement that could be spent on other suggestions instead.

 

G: Are bots even that hard to detect?! Seriously. Someone tell me. I've been under the impression that if you know what to look for they're fairly easy to find.

[Sylph264]

G: Are bots even that hard to detect?! Seriously. Someone tell me. I've been under the impression that if you know what to look for they're fairly easy to find.

Well... what do you look for? Constant refreshing? Regular players do that while hunting. Multiple pages open? Regular players do that, again for hunting. Hiding an egg immediately upon catching? Regular players do that to protect their eggs. Not displaying your username on the dragon info page? Regular players also do this to protect their eggs. More than one rare caught a day? Maybe your average player with decent connection couldn't pull it off, but a good hunter with good connection could.

Dozens of rares in a day? Probably a scripter, but a really stupid one if they're blaring it on the forums where people will take notice (or displaying their username on the dragon info page). I'm sure TJ could track exactly how many of each egg every player had caught within any given time frame, but he does have a job and a real life... Who else could track that?

If a scripter is at least somewhat intelligent, tell me, what makes them so easy to find?

 

Edit: Also, addressing the main topic: please no. While Google does have a nifty, easier to use captcha (you just check the box, no typing required), using it around ten times on the same site in a single day results in added security measures within the captcha. At that point, you check the box, wait for pictures to load, then select all the _____ (ex: all the sandwiches). Sorry, but no support.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Sylph264

[nlechoppa]

It's already hard enough to catch on mobile, a captcha would totally kill catching there.

[AGYK]

I'm pretty sure even the new Recaptcha requires Javascript to work. As a non-JS player, please no.

 

And just think of the chaos during holidays or releases... all that spamclicking interlaced with captchas sounds awful. There are other ways to look for a bot (granted, nothing foolproof, nothing with 100% accuracy rate, but a captcha isn't going to be perfect either).

[JavaTigress]

G: Are bots even that hard to detect?! Seriously. Someone tell me. I've been under the impression that if you know what to look for they're fairly easy to find.

This... is actually an excellent question.

 

IF they aren't that hard to catch, well, then something like this definitely isn't needed. Just a bit more careful watching on staff's part, I'd guess. I mean... if you listen to some people go on aout it, you'd think that practically EVERYONE was secretly a scripter.... or potentially could be one. I highly doubt that it is the case that it is THAT widespread or the epidemic that some claim. That said, for those that are breaking the rules in this way if they can be easily caught and punished for it, it'd be interesting to know HOW to recognize it for users too... might get more cheaters reported that way. IF it isn't quite THAT easy, well... there must still be signs, mustn't there, that would raise red flags?

Edited August 6, 2015 by Silverswift

[Fuzzbucket]

This... is actually an excellent question.

 

IF they aren't that hard to catch, well, then something like this definitely isn't needed. Just a bit more careful watching on staff's part, I'd guess. I mean... if you listen to some people go on aout it, you'd think that practically EVERYONE was secretly a scripter.... or potentially could be one. I highly doubt that it is the case that it is THAT widespread or the epidemic that some claim. That said, for those that are breaking the rules in this way if they can be easily caught and punished for it, it'd be interesting to know HOW to recognize it for users too... might get more cheaters reported that way. IF it isn't quite THAT easy, well... there must still be signs, mustn't there, that would raise red flags?

I agree that it isn't the huge problem some see it as. But if you want to find these people - one DEAD giveaway is a scroll with - say 7 gold eggs, all caught within minutes of each other IN DIFFERENT BIOMES. That cannot be done by an individual. That sort of thing - if you see it, report it !

Edited August 6, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[Freima]

I'm fairly new to DC but I've had plenty of experience of Captcha.

For anyone with problems with their sight, Captcha is a nightmare. I've seen some that would baffle people with 20:20 vision, let alone a person who can't easily tell a 1 from an l or a 7.

Is that a random smudge on an O or is it a Q? Or might it be a 0?

 

Please, no Captcha. I know DC has many players, but I'm not convinced it's as cut-throat as all that. Also, I'm trying to get my daughter interested in playing. She can't read Captcha easily and always has to ask for help. In DC, by the time that's happened, the egg will have gone anyway.

 

 

 

 

[Oddsoxdi]

I agree that it isn't the huge problem some see it as. But if you want to find these people - one DEAD giveaway is a scroll with - say 7 gold eggs, all caught within minutes of each other IN DIFFERENT BIOMES. That cannot be done by an individual. That sort of thing - if you see it, report it !

But WHEN have there been SEVEN Gold eggs (or 7 Rares of ANY kind) within minutes of each other on DC - even in different Biomes? Even when the alleged 'flood' of metals happened a few years ago there couldn't have been SEVEN metals within moments of each other could there?

[cyradis4]

But WHEN have there been SEVEN Gold eggs (or 7 Rares of ANY kind) within minutes of each other on DC - even in different Biomes? Even when the alleged 'flood' of metals happened a few years ago there couldn't have been SEVEN metals within moments of each other could there?

About a month ago, actually.

 

Someone found 7 gold eggs on a scroll.... All caught in different biomes within a short time of each other.

 

So.... it happens!

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Ayelldee]

Whoa. Stunned and amazed about that!

[cyradis4]

Whoa. Stunned and amazed about that!

It was reported and I've heard that they are no longer around, so.... Cheating *does* happen. And really, the small-time cheating isn't the problem, its the major cheating like that person and the huge multi-scrollers that cause the problem.

 

And *those* people are the ones who most often get caught.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[NotBambi]

The other still has 7 gold eggs, all caught the same day, most with 4 days 6-8 hours, the others with 4 days 13.

I agree that it isn't the huge problem some see it as. But if you want to find these people - one DEAD giveaway is a scroll with - say 7 gold eggs, all caught within minutes of each other IN DIFFERENT BIOMES.

I'm a bit confused. So, on May, you saw a scroll with 7 gold eggs caught the same day or was it within minutes of each other?

[Obscure_Trash]

This isn't actually meant to be a conversation in any time you suspected scripting. Back on topic, please.

[NotBambi]

That said, I don't think this is a solution that's particularly effective, for a problem that is being overblown compared to how bad things actually are.

This ^^

Though, to reiterate, I think the prevalence of "bots" is being pretty exaggerated.

And this ^^.

[readyforadventure]

I spend most of my time on this site cave catching. It's my favorite aspect of the game. It's fast-paced and exciting. It's all about timing and patience, and one click.

 

If captchas were implemented... I'd probably not be a successful catcher anymore. I've always been bad at reading the ridiculous fonts captchas use, having to click the "Refresh" multiple times. I'd probably stop trying and eventually stop playing.

 

Furthermore, I don't think botting is a problem. I've never experienced unfairness when I cave catch, or stumbled upon a scroll with 5+ CB eggs caught minutes apart. Even then, I don't care. More eggs will spawn.

[blockEdragon]

if you dudes don't like the letters they can just use picture captcha

those are much easier

see?

 

[Obscure_Trash]

if you dudes don't like the letters they can just use picture captcha

those are much easier

The current version of captcha is actually way easier than that. It's a simple checkbox to check you aren't a robot.

 

https://lh5.ggpht.com/fCcxMjTcSQHBzGNIo-vmz...ETQpTpPEYZ=w616

 

(However, this would still be frustrating while hunting.)

Edited August 16, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Fuzzbucket]

The current version of captcha is actually way easier than that. It's a simple checkbox to check you aren't a robot.

 

https://lh5.ggpht.com/fCcxMjTcSQHBzGNIo-vmz...ETQpTpPEYZ=w616

 

(However, this would still be frustrating while hunting.)

More than frustrating - on slow connections that box isn't exactly instantaneous, and if two people are after the same egg, who gets it - the first to click the EGG or the fist do do the captcha ? This would add a bit of unfairness, I fear.

 

Imagine - two people click a gold egg - clearly one clicks fractionally before the other. Is the egg then in hiatus for them while they wait for their captcha, or can the other player who clicked win out if their captcha loads first ? (and @blocke - STEP ONE OF THREE ? That takes ages, then !)

 

This is an AMAZINGLY bad idea.

Edited August 16, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[silver_tiger]

Woah, I don't even like captcha when I'm roleplaying. I would hate to have it implemented when I try for eggs; I think I'd give up playing altogether. I'm such a slow clicker, even grabbing a Seasonal is something to be celebrated. I don't want to think what my clicking speed would slow to if this was a thing.

[blockEdragon]

but the scripts will still get it

just walk away and come back and fill out the captcha yourself

then they can just repeat it

[DarkEternity]

Just out of experience: I've been using 4chan's mecha board lately because a lot of 2ch gundam translations only get posted there and nowhere else and every posting requires a captcha solution. So you could say that I have an up close and personal problem with recaptcha.

 

Recaptcha V2 problems

 

Recaptcha V2 is usually fine until what I like to call the 'streetsign name nightmare': that is if you understand that salad is literally any food with a bit of green on it (yes I had a soup WHICH WAS APAPRENTLY a salad), that sandwiches include hamburgers, cakes and sundaes that are actually icecreams, pancakes that are actually hamburgers and all the possible ways that recaptcha hates you (Also if you actually do what Google says and select them all you'll always be wrong, you should always take a guess and select the first two that catch your eye)

 

 

These ones never work if you select all the streetsigns and will tell you that your answers are wrong. And just as a bonus, streetname signs often include speedsigns, pointy arrow signs and oftentimes there are NO STREETSIGNS on the actual signs provided and sometimes there are five or six streetsigns and you will end up solving about 10 streetsigns wrong (because it literally won't give you anything else) upon which you will be greeted with the endless streetsign parade of doom (and it doesn't accept your answer as correct at all. )

 

Moving onto nightmare number 2 which is the 'not enough answers correct' nightmare, where Google forces you to solve multiple ones in a row to unlock the captcha. Even if you are correct, you must solve more in order to get past the captcha.

 

Nightmare number 3: 'Cannot connect to the google server'. Appears to particularly plague mobile devices who solve the captcha and then find out that Google hates them. You have to reload the entire page to get past this and often times it takes about 2 reloadings to get it to work.

 

Nightmare number 4: Endless spinny wheel of doom. Oh yes, it happens all the time. You solve the captcha and then it's stuck loading for the rest of eternity. Requires page refreshes - usually 2, tends to affect mobile devices.

 

Nightmare number 5: 'Incorrect captcha' which is where the site doesn't recognise that you've solved the captcha even if Google says you solved it correctly. You have to solve more.

 

Nightmare number 6: Mobile devices like iPhones hate Recaptcha 2. It will often freeze up when you're trying to select images which means you have to exit out of the app multiple times to get it to work. By the way it works fine on a dedicated client but as Dragcave is a mobile site and not an app you'd probably need to test it to make sure that it doesn't freeze all the time - it's super annoying and happens all the time on my high end phone.

 

 

Legacy Recaptcha: Or How I Tried to Escape V2 and Ended Up With A Miserable Time

 

Apparently on mobile devices they exchanged extremely long illegible strings of text to unsolvable but extremely legible pieces of text. It was a pretty horrendous experience and I went straight back to using V2 even though it made my phone practically unusable.

 

 

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Bottom line - please use solvemedia for captchas and NOT Google

 

EDIT: A year ago or something I said that Recaptcha V2 was the best thing since sliced bread. That was back then when it was literally just a five character captcha in legible text. The image based recaptcha is terrible although Google seems to have toned the awful streetsign names down a bit after all the complaints they received in the support forum.

Edited October 18, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Obscure_Trash]

Just out of experience: I've been using 4chan's mecha board lately because a lot of 2ch gundam translations only get posted there and nowhere else and every posting requires a captcha solution. So you could say that I have an up close and personal problem with recaptcha.

 

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Bottom line - please use solvemedia for captchas and NOT Google

The "I'm not a robot" simple point and click is the current captcha: https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api2/demo

 

But your post is a little unclear. This is the suggestion:

 

The suggestion: When you go to steal an egg from a biome, there ought to be a captcha.

 

Your post seems to be talking about already implemented captcha use, such as when you register. Did I misunderstand and you're supporting this suggestion, just using solvemedia instead of captcha? ^^;;