Jump to content
Obscure_Trash

ANSWERED:Paid Perks

Recommended Posts

No one is forced to do anything. Plenty of people on here have a wishlist and they're not begging for those wishes to be filled. I've gifted things to users and had things given to me from users who are not even on the site forum. If you "need" to rely on others, then it's not a gift-- it's a donation. If you don't want people gifting, don't accept whatever they offer.

They are if they want the dragon. Having a wishlist open for a complete stranger to spend money on you is unlikely to work at all, and even if you do get something you've become an actual charity case, where someone with has given something of monetary value to those without. That's not a happy position to put someone into, even in the absolute remotest chance anyone here is going to spend money on those they don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Not to sound cynical or anything, but I don't think there would be as many people willing to spend real money on strangers no matter how good a friend they are on DC. Giving away free money? Yeah right.

 

More than likely, they'd buy something awesome and then demand 6 CB golds for it. That's the way our market goes.

Donating to charity? Free money being given away. Donating to the site? Free money being given away.

Share this post


Link to post

But that's the whole point, I'm tired to be a person who depends on charity to have good things. I want an opportunity to have good things on my own. Paid perks are a nice opportunity. I can't buy a high end computer but I can spend a couple of dollars buying something nice to myself.

 

My present game style is to be in some threads to get gifts and beg to my closer friends to hunt nice things to me. rolleyes.gif

Edited by danicast

Share this post


Link to post
I know they are more expensive. I think it an entirely fair concept to make people pay for access to a faster connection. I don't disagree with it IN ANY WAY.

 

I just don't want it to happen on DC, because actually, yes, I WOULD prefer a slower speed for EVERYBODY over a faster speed for those who can afford to pay.

 

As for gifting things - it's nice, I like doing it, I like receiving them as much. But when you set up a system where some people have to RELY on gifts to get the nice things, then you have a problem, and if there are too many paid perks, that's what will end up happening to at least some players.

I want to cry. I've been dealing with so much lag in the last week that it takes 5 minutes for my scroll to load. Even I did set it at max 50 dragons per page (on my laptop, not on the phone) and I've no whatsoever add-ons on Chrome. I'm not the only one, reading the Lag thread. Who benefits from slower for everybody? Site owners do not "invest" their earnings only on the paying players, they substantially improve the experience for everybody, even if at a greater degree for paying customers. Next time I want to Influence or Incubate, I will think of you sad.gif

Guess what, it is already that way: many, let's say the majority of people have to RELY on gifts to get the nice things in DC, even now.

Share this post


Link to post

I see it from the other side.

I (and many others) haven't the money to spend on such things, so why don't we keep so that the majority of all players have equal access (as much as possible) to the same 'good' things. Why should the good things be available only  to people with enough income to pay for them?

Why shouldn't TJ be compensated for his time? He says that he has a paying job that is true, but is DC paying for itself or is TJ operating at a financial loss so that we can enjoy the game?

 

So many pet sites eventually close down.

 

Giving away free money? Yeah right.

That point goes both ways, you know because people are unlikely to donate for a free game even if said game costs money to maintain.

Edited by DarkEternity

Share this post


Link to post

I'd prefer some sort of free method of getting prize dragons with hard work and persistence over a monetary method. If we try it the other way around then we'd either get complaints from free players that it's too difficult or paying customers feeling as though they've been cheated.

 

There are a variety of things we could offer that give benefits without giving advantage over other players, stuff that wouldn't come with drama. Resetting a BSA cooldown, changing genders for two-gender dragons, changing scrollnames...stuff like that. No dragons for sale please.

Edited by Tehya Faye

Share this post


Link to post
I'm sorry to disagree but your statement is not accurate. DC is NOT "a site where everyone has the opportunity to do for oneself" even ignoring better equipment. CB Prize owners can have whatever they wish just because they were lucky. So things like the option of getting CB Golds are heavily on their favor.

DC is already broken in that regard. Should we break it even MORE?

 

Do you think the trade market is bad now, with how it's choked to death with requests for low gen shimmers and various metals? This would be that problem times then, because now that dragon is worth actual money. And so are its children, and on and on, and the only people with access to it are those who paid for it or those who begged for it and then decided to give their eggs to someone else who begged. There's no multiclutch to insure dispersal like with holidays. And besides that, dragons are the main point of this site. Forcing us to pay for dragons would be the most disgusting possible thing to put behind a paywall.

 

Prizes = ~150 or less of each type each year with no ways to get extras.

 

Commons in another biome are several dozen orders of magnitude below that. Plus, people already readily gift 3g Prizes, help others catch CB Halloweens, give away free CB Metals / Trios / Coppers. So while, yes, you'd have silly blokes trying to ransom off a common-by-the-dozen egg and asking for "CB Golds or 2g Prizes only plz lololol" the chances of them getting such a trade would be almost zero. People would be throwing the eggs at their friends, if nothing else, and I'm sure many more would be gifted out on the whole. Plus, again: 10$ for a YEAR. The cost of eating out at a cheap fast food joint ONCE for a whole year of goodies.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'd rather there be NO paid in-game perks, but since more and more people in this thread are asking "yes please let us buy CB Prizes / Metals / faster access" ... I'd take a very cheap, very long term single payment for a biome that's got way more commons than anything over turning rares into $$$ signs.

 

And, of course, I'd take things that DON'T affect in game play, but could help site revenue, over that.

Share this post


Link to post

I am entirely receptive to the idea of implementing paid perks. I don't even care what they are.

 

In game currency sounds fun. Scroll name changes sound fun. An extra egg slot sounds fun. Special skins sound fun. I don't care that I have no money and probably won't be a particularly reliable purchaser of perks, expanded content sounds cool and not personally having access to it all the time doesn't mean I don't want other people to have nice things.

 

Let's try new things. Let's be pro-fun.

Share this post


Link to post
I'd prefer some sort of free method of getting prize dragons with hard work and persistence over a monetary method. If we try it the other way around then we'd either get complaints from free players that it's too difficult or paying customers feeling as though they've been cheated.

 

There are a variety of things we could offer that give benefits without giving advantage over other players, stuff that wouldn't come with drama. Resetting a BSA cooldown, changing genders for two-gender dragons, changing scrollnames...stuff like that. No dragons for sale please.

But no free method will give TJ monetary compensation. How do you suggest that the site gets monetary compensation? The best method is to offer to the players something that they can pay for, something that adds value to the game.

Share this post


Link to post

Why shouldn't TJ be compensated for his time? He says that he has a paying job that is true, but is DC paying for itself or is TJ operating at a financial loss so that we can enjoy the game?

 

So many pet sites eventually close down.

Well, he's already said upthread it's not really about compensation. If it were simply that then we could stick with a discussion on deriving income from non play options.

 

But I think he's more interested in opinions on whether players would feel it's worthwhile to 'buy' their way into exclusive (or not so exclusive) perks to improve their gameplay.

 

ETA, dang I'm so slow.....

 

 

Actually raising more money is in no way part of the motivation; I have a full-time job that isn't DC, so finding ways to make DC more profitable isn't in any way necessary
Edited by Tawanda001

Share this post


Link to post
I am entirely receptive to the idea of implementing paid perks. I don't even care what they are.

 

In game currency sounds fun. Scroll name changes sound fun. An extra egg slot sounds fun. Special skins sound fun. I don't care that I have no money and probably won't be a particularly reliable purchaser of perks, expanded content sounds cool and not personally having access to it all the time doesn't mean I don't want other people to have nice things.

 

Let's try new things. Let's be pro-fun.

Making DC even more of a "richer people get more" site than it already is is NOT fun. People already benefit from having more money by having faster computers and faster internet, which is about 90% of what getting rare things on DC relies on. Making that divide broader is going to be anything but pleasant for those who are already playing the game on low end computers with shoddy connections due to financial issues.

 

Now skins, name changes, stuff like THAT where it's a nice little perk but it's not actively affecting how many dragons you can get (or which), that's totally fine. But once it affects the other things it's opening up a very bad door.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, DC's way more competitive a site to go forth willy nilly into the realm of premium perks. The site I mentioned that did it well? Completely singleplayer. Yes, there are ways to kinda cheat your way out of things that would otherwise take longer, but it can't give you an advantage over free players because you aren't competing against anyone. It just benefits you without affecting anyone else. Dragon Cave is multiplayer, so it's a harder balance to strike.

Edited by Tehya Faye

Share this post


Link to post

Obviously this is just my view from the outside looking in, but I do wonder if the reason some long suggested, very useful features (heal BSA, multiple BSA use at once, better ways to organize scrolls, better description process, unfreezing, refusal reset, etc) haven't been added yet is because there hasn't simply been time or incentive to add them. In which case, making the site more profitable would be a good thing, even if I hope it was done in a way that was still very balanced. sad.gif

That's more or less what I was thinking: there is no reason for the owner to spend time and effort coding our suggestions to get a thank you, probably not even that from many.

 

What if... what if for just 10$ members got year round access to a new biome? Eggs could be traded, so they would still circulate as CBs outside those members thanks to trading and likely lots of gifting from the generous user base. 10$ a year is less than a single fast food lunch for most of us, so it's hardly insurmountable (especially for a year of access), but 10$ x the rumored ten thousand ish players the game has would still be a nice net increase for the game. Of course, it would probably shut out kids from there, unless parents were willing to pay. Maybe the eggs from there could still be found in a few normal biomes, just at two or three times the usual rarity?

Quite a good idea, even if I can think of many more things I would like.

Share this post


Link to post
Making DC even more of a "richer people get more" site than it already is is NOT fun. People already benefit from having more money by having faster computers and faster internet, which is about 90% of what getting rare things on DC relies on. Making that divide broader is going to be anything but pleasant for those who are already playing the game on low end computers with shoddy connections due to financial issues.

 

Now skins, name changes, stuff like THAT where it's a nice little perk but it's not actively affecting how many dragons you can get (or which), that's totally fine. But once it affects the other things it's opening up a very bad door.

It's pretty easy to get paid monthly pets on games like Chicken Smoothie. I don't think I've ever purchased chicken dollars, but the currency is so ubiquitous and ends up as a part of so many little trades that I always have some on hand. I've never felt disadvantaged on that game for not being a paying player.

 

So basically, you're making a lot of assumptions about what the DC economy could look like if paid perks weren't handled well. Worst case scenarios are always alarming. What awesome things could come of it? How about you propose a course of action that would make paid perks an awesome feature for everybody?

Share this post


Link to post

DC is already broken in that regard. Should we break it even MORE?

 

 

 

Prizes = ~150 or less of each type each year with no ways to get extras.

 

Commons in another biome are several dozen orders of magnitude below that. Plus, people already readily gift 3g Prizes, help others catch CB Halloweens, give away free CB Metals / Trios / Coppers. So while, yes, you'd have silly blokes trying to ransom off a common-by-the-dozen egg and asking for "CB Golds or 2g Prizes only plz lololol" the chances of them getting such a trade would be almost zero. People would be throwing the eggs at their friends, if nothing else, and I'm sure many more would be gifted out on the whole. Plus, again: 10$ for a YEAR. The cost of eating out at a cheap fast food joint ONCE for a whole year of goodies.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'd rather there be NO paid in-game perks, but since more and more people in this thread are asking "yes please let us buy CB Prizes / Metals / faster access" ... I'd take a very cheap, very long term single payment for a biome that's got way more commons than anything over turning rares into $$$ signs.

 

And, of course, I'd take things that DON'T affect in game play, but could help site revenue, over that.

Prizes don't cost money. These 'commons' would. Only those who pay have them. That already catapults them above any dragon that can be accessed for free. Gifting a 3rd gen? 2nd gens don't cost money. They don't cost anything but dragons, which are all free. None of those gifts you mentioned cost anyone any money, unlike this. You also forget that people hate being forced into the inferior position of being a charity case. Hardly anyone would gift them at all, and nobody likes having to beg. Any amount of money catapults their value sky-high, $10 or not. And of course the haves would give things to their friends. Are you their friend? No? Sucks to be you. It's all about connections, like in the business world. In a hobby game. Sounds like fun.

 

I am entirely receptive to the idea of implementing paid perks. I don't even care what they are.

 

In game currency sounds fun. Scroll name changes sound fun. An extra egg slot sounds fun. Special skins sound fun. I don't care that I have no money and probably won't be a particularly reliable purchaser of perks, expanded content sounds cool and not personally having access to it all the time doesn't mean I don't want other people to have nice things.

 

Let's try new things. Let's be pro-fun.

In what universe is it fun for some of us to get spit on and forced into a disadvantage because people throw money at the site?

Share this post


Link to post
It's pretty easy to get paid monthly pets on games like Chicken Smoothie. I don't think I've ever purchased chicken dollars, but the currency is so ubiquitous and ends up as a part of so many little trades that I always have some on hand. I've never felt disadvantaged on that game for not being a paying player.

 

So basically, you're making a lot of assumptions about what the DC economy could look like if paid perks weren't handled well. Worst case scenarios are always alarming. What awesome things could come of it? How about you propose a course of action that would make paid perks an awesome feature for everybody?

Mmm, you make a fair point. I had a brief foray into flight rising and it put me off paid perks so badly that the first mention of them coming here makes me sweat.

 

Again, I don't think little side perks are an issue. Slight perks (like BSA use that we can get on our own, maybe a gender swap for unbred adults since that affects no one but the user) are alright, but big perks like buying dragons would have to be very carefully regulated to keep ratios in check and keep people with more money from instantly skyrocketing past what slower players have been working for years to do with no success. Maybe a limit on how many such dragons could be bought? I also think the ratio between time put in versus money is important. Being able to use money to instantly do something that usually takes a year of time put in doesn't sound good at all. Using it for something that takes six months is iffy. A month? That's more reasonable IMO.

 

(Eternal disclaimer that I stilllllll prefer non-dragon-collecting-related perks though. Custom skins would be really cool and doesn't hurt anyone. It'd also be really cool if people could pay for maybe behind the scenes looks at what goes into designing some of the past events or even getting to beta test new features)

Share this post


Link to post
It's pretty easy to get paid monthly pets on games like Chicken Smoothie. I don't think I've ever purchased chicken dollars, but the currency is so ubiquitous and ends up as a part of so many little trades that I always have some on hand. I've never felt disadvantaged on that game for not being a paying player.

 

So basically, you're making a lot of assumptions about what the DC economy could look like if paid perks weren't handled well. Worst case scenarios are always alarming. What awesome things could come of it? How about you propose a course of action that would make paid perks an awesome feature for everybody?

Chicken Smoothie? You know the currency is a product of trades being integrated into the site. Unlike on DC. That situation isn't comparable to this one without the site being overhauled. That's something far beyond simply paid perks.

 

And absolutely nothing 'awesome' will come of forcing people to pay money.

Share this post


Link to post
Just a reminder that this is just a discussion and there's no need for posts to be made nor taken personally. Let's keep things constructive, please. If need be, take a breather from the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
In what universe is it fun for some of us to get spit on and forced into a disadvantage because people throw money at the site?

It sounds like you're certain this is an inevitable outcome.

 

I'd rather have faith in my fellow players to be, you know, decent people. Paid perks could encourage an economy of gifting as much as anything else. Magistream has hangout threads that routinely gift doni pets to non purchaser players.

Share this post


Link to post
Mmm, you make a fair point. I had a brief foray into flight rising and it put me off paid perks so badly that the first mention of them coming here makes me sweat.

My bad experience was Gaia Online. It started out with a good balance, but once the site was handed over to more money-oriented individuals things just went severely downhill. They seemingly purposefully screwed over their own economy to make it more difficult for non-paying users to keep up. I'm not sure if the situation has gotten better since I've been gone, but it was pretty abysmal last time I was there.

 

Dragon Cave probably won't end up like that, though. TJ isn't going to hand the site over to people who aggressively monetize everything they touch, nor does he seem to care about milking any serious profit out of DC.

Share this post


Link to post
It sounds like you're certain this is an inevitable outcome.

 

I'd rather have faith in my fellow players to be, you know, decent people. Paid perks could encourage an economy of gifting as much as anything else. Magistream has hangout threads that routinely gift doni pets to non purchaser players.

This isn't my first rodeo. I've been on plenty of sites besides this, of this kind and of others, that were all ruined by this. I've had actual real life friends who threw me under the bus for the sake of money. I have no faith at all that this will be the time it works differently.

 

Even beyond that, being forced to beg for gifts isn't something nice to do to your players, even if the unlikely scenario of people giving away things that cost money occurs. Not everyone likes being in that position.

Share this post


Link to post
It sounds like you're certain this is an inevitable outcome.

 

I'd rather have faith in my fellow players to be, you know, decent people. Paid perks could encourage an economy of gifting as much as anything else. Magistream has hangout threads that routinely gift doni pets to non purchaser players.

I agree with Marri. Done right, paid perks would NOT overly-disadvantage non-paying players.

 

But to do that, so that they aren't disadvantaged, the paid currency has to be *common* and what you are using it to buy has to be cheap.... So that the currency spreads far. Also it would be best if its also earn-able in some way through game play, but care has to be taken because of multies.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Share this post


Link to post

This is a can of very bad worms, dumped on the floor, with people are slipping and falling in the mess, and it all stinks to high heaven.

 

Clean up the mess, air out the room. None of this is going to happen tomorrow, and it may never happen. There's no point in getting so wound up about it.

 

I don't want to see charges for playing the game in any way, shape or form.

 

Merch is merch, and is not dealt with in the game. Leave it that way.

 

The downloadable event games would be merch, just like the existing Cafe Press merch. Artists get paid for their contributions, but it is still merch and does not affect game play.

 

If someone wants to remove ads or change their forum or player name, they pay a fee. That's merch, and does not affect game play.

 

Most important though, I don't want to see the site become divided over money. I hate what money does to people, through both lack and glut, and its divisiveness can ruin the site. The game and the way we can play here with our friends and our families, this is far more important than money. <3

 

Share this post


Link to post

Well, he's already said upthread it's not really about compensation. If it were simply that then we could stick with a discussion on deriving income from non play options.

Well that's the socially polite thing to say. One doesn't often say - well the electricity bills are expensive, too many people are adblocking to make that worthwhile, there are monthly bills to be paid for the servers, I'm offering technical support for a free game which takes time out of my life and my career, I get up at ungodly hours to bugfix and address people's concerns, I am x amount in debt for paying for my education.

 

Look, the very fact that this is being suggested at all makes me think that DC's running costs aren't being covered.

 

Otherwise there's zero point in introducing paid content at all.

 

Things that I've seen close recently because of funding issues include Geomon and Valenth. I've heard that Tale of the Dragons is going down as well. VDex is dying because the admin can no longer afford to put in time into the site due to their declining health and insufficient funds are coming into the site to pay for the site's bills.

 

I'd like to think that DC is immune from financing problems but realistically speaking how long is that going to last?

Share this post


Link to post
It sounds like you're certain this is an inevitable outcome.

 

I'd rather have faith in my fellow players to be, you know, decent people. Paid perks could encourage an economy of gifting as much as anything else. Magistream has hangout threads that routinely gift doni pets to non purchaser players.

and DC has a chat where nice things get tossed out too, but if you don't happen to be a part of that group for whatever reason you don't directly benefit from all the nice things going on there. Gifting is great, but it can't help all the players that are lacking nice things. I can't see that people gifting things they got through pay for play perks will have much of a trickle down effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.