ANSWERED:Paid Perks

[danicast]

Here's another consideration:

 

We already have people 'cheating' by using scripts and the like to get the nicer dragons. Who's to say they won't try to go further with the introduction of paid perks to get said perks for free without paying a dime?

 

Or, god forbid, they find a way to get to the money. Too much risk involved there. There would of course need to be added security, which is a whole other can of worms right there.

 

The whole thing is a bad idea.

This is not a problem, the site already have a method to sell tshirts. It's simple to implement a method to sell whatever TJ wants with secure methods.

 

I can't buy merchandise because it's impossible to deliver to my country, the taxes are too high.

 

I would buy a CB silver shimmer and a CB tinsel. I want to buy things that improve my game experience.

 

 

[DarkEternity]

If you could get online items for free paypal would have already gone bankrupt. Also right now people don't pay for advantages directly but they do payfor a lower ping time by paying for an internet connection and pay for a better laptop. Theses advantages are much more expensive than most ingame purchases.

Edited July 31, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Tawanda001]

If you could get online items for free paypal would have already gone bankrupt. Also right now people don't pay for advantages directly but they do payfor a lower ping time by paying for an internet connection and pay for a better laptop. Theses advantages are much more expensive than most ingame purchases.

Yes and those are probably the same people who could afford the extra perks while those of us who can't afford the latest and greatest hardware (and sometimes not even decent connections because of location) already feel like we are at enough of a disadvantage.

Is it okay to improve the experience for some if it puts others at an even greater disadvantage?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

TJ, in broad terms, how well does the site do financially from ads/store merchandise right now? Would the site have to make considerably more money for you to devote more time to it and or hire extra staff? Would spriters get some of the cut if a certain level income was reached?

 

Obviously this is just my view from the outside looking in, but I do wonder if the reason some long suggested, very useful features (heal BSA, multiple BSA use at once, better ways to organize scrolls, better description process, unfreezing, refusal reset, etc) haven't been added yet is because there hasn't simply been time or incentive to add them. In which case, making the site more profitable would be a good thing, even if I hope it was done in a way that was still very balanced.

 

What if... what if for just 10$ members got year round access to a new biome? Eggs could be traded, so they would still circulate as CBs outside those members thanks to trading and likely lots of gifting from the generous user base. 10$ a year is less than a single fast food lunch for most of us, so it's hardly insurmountable (especially for a year of access), but 10$ x the rumored ten thousand ish players the game has would still be a nice net increase for the game. Of course, it would probably shut out kids from there, unless parents were willing to pay. Maybe the eggs from there could still be found in a few normal biomes, just at two or three times the usual rarity?

Edited July 31, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[danicast]

Yes and those are probably the same people who could afford the extra perks while those of us who can't afford the latest and greatest hardware (and sometimes not even decent connections because of location) already feel like we are at enough of a disadvantage.

Is it okay to improve the experience for some if it puts others at an even greater disadvantage?

This game already put some players in great disvantage: I have an old computer and a low speed connection. I only have 2 CB golds because I got them as gifts. I have only 2 CB silvers that I caught myself. I only have xenos because I caught them in the release and I made some trades with some friends who didn't want them (lucky me) in another forum. It's my whole DC story, always depending on someone to catch or breed something for me, always depending on friends or generous people. This is not how I would like to play this game. If I could buy some perks with my own money I would feel less handicaped because at least I can work to make my own money and spend on something that makes me happy. I come from a 3rd world country, the dollar costs here 4 times that my country money, trust me, even some dollars are hard for me to spend. BUT if I could spend on something that really makes me happy, I would. If you can't definitely not buy some perk then don't buy. Everybody have their own priorities, it's your own decision. But it's unfair to use the argument "I'm poor so nobody can have good things".

[NotBambi]

If you could get online items for free paypal would have already gone bankrupt. Also right now people don't pay for advantages directly but they do payfor a lower ping time by paying for an internet connection and pay for a better laptop. Theses advantages are much more expensive than most ingame purchases.

I'm a member of a website where people go to download stuff for a well known game. There I pay a monthly subscription to get rid of ads and , the best part, higher download speed. That doesn't not apply here but, if was possible to pay for a route that gets me lower ping, I would

It is true that last I checked I could get to dragcave.net with 20+ hops and almost one hundred ms but only 3 hops and 3 ms with a Verizon jetpack

 

Edited to remove typos but I'm sure I left others behind for your reading pleasure.

Edited July 31, 2015 by NotBambi

[zaverxi]

I fail to see your point. Would work exactly like it does now with ads removal. Nothing new on that front.

No one really had anything to gain with 'stealing' ad removal, especially with adblockers available. But once you can get CB golds by buying them? Think of that.

[Prince_Xanthius]

Paying for lower ping would cause SO many issues, you have no idea. People complain enough about their connection (a thing which often not much can be done about) as is. I am not the most tech savvy person ever, but I assume the way 'pay for higher download' works is to artificially strangle the speeds of free users in some way? I just...tbh that to me is even MORE of a bad idea than having pay-only dragons!

 

I don't disagree with having paid-perks of some form, I just don't think they should heavily impact on the main game play (i.e catching, growing, breeding dragons).

 

I think some 'convenience' perks - like multiple fogging, multiple BSA at a time, A WAY TO TAG/TAB MY DRAGONS/SCROLL would be OK. That last one should just happen *prettyprettyplease* but I would pay for that for sure, and it doesn't really affect the game for those who can't.

 

I do think something like paid access to an onsite trade market (kinda like EATW's) would be acceptable as well, but that would be more contentious.

 

ADP raises a good point about art - if the site earns more money, it will become less acceptable to not pay the artists. I am sure there will still be artists willing to do it, but it would seem a lot more like taking advantage than it does now. It bears consideration, but I guess not really from the players end

[DarkEternity]

No one really had anything to gain with 'stealing' ad removal, especially with adblockers available. But once you can get CB golds by buying them? Think of that.

Like I said if an exploit existed for Paypal people would be stealing laptops for free and money not buying CB golds on a dragon website.

[Tawanda001]

But it's unfair to use the argument "I'm poor so nobody can have good things".

I see it from the other side.

I (and many others) haven't the money to spend on such things, so why don't we keep so that the majority of all players have equal access (as much as possible) to the same 'good' things. Why should the good things be available only to people with enough income to pay for them?

[Jazeki]

I see it from the other side.

I (and many others) haven't the money to spend on such things, so why don't we keep so that the majority of all players have equal access (as much as possible) to the same 'good' things. Why should the good things be available only to people with enough income to pay for them?

Who is to say that a person can't buy something and gift/trade it to another player?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I see it from the other side.

I (and many others) haven't the money to spend on such things, so why don't we keep so that the majority of all players have equal access (as much as possible) to the same 'good' things. Why should the good things be available only to people with enough income to pay for them?

^

 

I am quite well off and I would still be sad to see people with lower incomes feeling run off. DC ALREADY favors people with more money because, well, those people tend to have faster computers and more free time and thus catch more rares. Adding in even more on top of that would be making things worse, not better.

 

Not everything in the world needs to be unequal.

[Tawanda001]

Who is to say that a person can't buy something and gift/trade it to another player?

But that brings it back round full circle to the very thing Danicast doesn't care for, having to have things gifted because of being unable to do for oneself. So how does pay for play eliminate that need?

[NotBambi]

Paying for lower ping would cause SO many issues, you have no idea. People complain enough about their connection (a thing which often not much can be done about) as is. I am not the most tech savvy person ever, but I assume the way 'pay for higher download' works is to artificially strangle the speeds of free users in some way? I just...tbh that to me is even MORE of a bad idea than having pay-only dragons!

Actually, no, does not strangle anybody. The paying customers in that site are in different servers. Think about having two different ldesktops in your house and two different cable modems. You personally paid for your connection, i.e. downloading at 25 Mbps speed. The other, in your home office, is paid by your employer i.e. 150 Mbps. Now imagine the same concept for the servers used by that site. Et voila!

[Jazeki]

But that brings it back round full circle to the very thing Danicast doesn't care for, having to have things gifted because of being unable to do for oneself. So how does pay for play eliminate that need?

It doesn't. But, just because someone doesn't want to accept gifts doesn't mean that other people don't want them or that people who can spend money on whatever perks there are in order to gift them to others that can't shouldn't be able to.

 

That sentence is a mess. I hope the gist is clear.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Jazeki

[Prince_Xanthius]

Actually, no, does not strangle anybody. The paying customers in that site are in different servers. Think about having two different ldesktops in your house and two different cable modems. You personally paid for your connection, i.e. downloading at 25 Mbps speed. The other, in your home office, is paid by your employer i.e. 150 Mbps. Now imagine the same concept for the servers used by that site. Et voila!

 

That IS a form of artificially strangling free users - you make them use the slow server, and prioritise the fast connection for paying users. Which is entirely fair, don't get me wrong, but I would not want to see it on DC.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[NotBambi]

That IS a form of artificially strangling free users - you make them use the slow server, and prioritise the fast connection for paying users. Which is entirely fair, don't get me wrong, but I would not want to see it on DC.

Excuse me... faster connections are more expensive.. why should the site owner pay more for the connection if nobody is paying him back for that? So basically the connection would be slower for everybody. Would that be better?

[Tawanda001]

It doesn't. But, just because someone doesn't want to accept gifts doesn't mean that other people don't want them or that people who can spend money on whatever perks there are in order to gift them to others that can't shouldn't be able to.

 

That sentence is a mess. I hope the gist is clear.

Considering my own posts are sometime clear as mud, i get it.

 

While most people like getting gifts i think there is still a strong sense of accomplishment in being able to 'do for oneself' that a lot of people prefer if possible.

I simply prefer that DC remains a site where everyone has the opportunity to do for oneself, even if the playing field is slightly skewed in favor of those with faster, better equipment or whatever. Having game play options that are only available to (or heavily in favor of) paying players really takes away from that.

[Prince_Xanthius]

Excuse me... faster connections are more expensive.. why should the site owner pay more for the connection if nobody is paying him back for that? So basically the connection would be slower for everybody. Would that be better?

I know they are more expensive. I think it an entirely fair concept to make people pay for access to a faster connection. I don't disagree with it IN ANY WAY.

 

I just don't want it to happen on DC, because actually, yes, I WOULD prefer a slower speed for EVERYBODY over a faster speed for those who can afford to pay.

 

As for gifting things - it's nice, I like doing it, I like receiving them as much. But when you set up a system where some people have to RELY on gifts to get the nice things, then you have a problem, and if there are too many paid perks, that's what will end up happening to at least some players.

[NotBambi]

I simply prefer that DC remains a site where everyone has the opportunity to do for oneself, even if the playing field is slightly skewed in favor of those with faster, better equipment or whatever. Having game play options that are only available to (or heavily in favor of) paying players really takes away from that.

I'm sorry to disagree but your statement is not accurate. DC is NOT "a site where everyone has the opportunity to do for oneself" even ignoring better equipment. CB Prize owners can have whatever they wish just because they were lucky. So things like the option of getting CB Golds are heavily on their favor.

[BlindWolf]

TJ, in broad terms, how well does the site do financially from ads/store merchandise right now? Would the site have to make considerably more money for you to devote more time to it and or hire extra staff? Would spriters get some of the cut if a certain level income was reached?

 

Obviously this is just my view from the outside looking in, but I do wonder if the reason some long suggested, very useful features (heal BSA, multiple BSA use at once, better ways to organize scrolls, better description process, unfreezing, refusal reset, etc) haven't been added yet is because there hasn't simply been time or incentive to add them. In which case, making the site more profitable would be a good thing, even if I hope it was done in a way that was still very balanced.

 

What if... what if for just 10$ members got year round access to a new biome? Eggs could be traded, so they would still circulate as CBs outside those members thanks to trading and likely lots of gifting from the generous user base. 10$ a year is less than a single fast food lunch for most of us, so it's hardly insurmountable (especially for a year of access), but 10$ x the rumored ten thousand ish players the game has would still be a nice net increase for the game. Of course, it would probably shut out kids from there, unless parents were willing to pay. Maybe the eggs from there could still be found in a few normal biomes, just at two or three times the usual rarity?

Do you think the trade market is bad now, with how it's choked to death with requests for low gen shimmers and various metals? This would be that problem times then, because now that dragon is worth actual money. And so are its children, and on and on, and the only people with access to it are those who paid for it or those who begged for it and then decided to give their eggs to someone else who begged. There's no multiclutch to insure dispersal like with holidays. And besides that, dragons are the main point of this site. Forcing us to pay for dragons would be the most disgusting possible thing to put behind a paywall.

 

Who is to say that a person can't buy something and gift/trade it to another player?

They can, but demand would outstrip supply. You'd be back into that situation I mentioned to you much earlier, where users are forced to beg and scrape on the forum to get access to something. You're reducing part of the userbase into an inferior position and forcing them to debase themselves to get access to some aspect of the game.

[Tawanda001]

In every discussion about DC, prizes will always be a one off. Is it really necessary to state that in every post or thread?

[Jazeki]

No one is forced to do anything. Plenty of people on here have a wishlist and they're not begging for those wishes to be filled. I've gifted things to users and had things given to me from users who are not even on the site forum. If you "need" to rely on others, then it's not a gift-- it's a donation. If you don't want people gifting, don't accept whatever they offer.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Jazeki

[zaverxi]

Who is to say that a person can't buy something and gift/trade it to another player?

Not to sound cynical or anything, but I don't think there would be as many people willing to spend real money on strangers no matter how good a friend they are on DC. Giving away free money? Yeah right.

 

More than likely, they'd buy something awesome and then demand 6 CB golds for it. That's the way our market goes.

[danicast]

As for gifting things - it's nice, I like doing it, I like receiving them as much. But when you set up a system where some people have to RELY on gifts to get the nice things, then you have a problem, and if there are too many paid perks, that's what will end up happening to at least some players.

This.

 

I'm sorry to disagree but your statement is not accurate. DC is NOT "a site where everyone has the opportunity to do for oneself" even ignoring better equipment. CB Prize owners can have whatever they wish just because they were lucky. So things like the option of getting CB Golds are heavily on their favor.

And this.