Reduce Time to Abandon CB eggs

[Jazeki]

I'd be okay with this. In most instances, the CB eggs I'm waiting to abandon are misclicks rather than things I intentionally picked up, but I'd much rather wait 1 hour/3 hours/what have you than wait for 5 hours or risk killing an egg with a vamp bite.

 

Also, to those who say the AP is mostly for bred eggs, I do a lot of hunting for CB dragons in the AP, especially when their time is low.

[linda3.0]

omg yes please that 5hr cooldown is completely stupid especially in the case of misclicks where you didnt even mean to grab it or lagged etc. you shouldnt be stuck with the thing for 5 hrs after

[Thuban]

It honestly just seems like another way to cherry pick the cave. Blockers are blockers because the code says "make more". Just shoving them to the ap and hoping people will go ahead and hatch them doesn't solve anything. It mainly succeeds in making the AP even more difficult to hunt (yay for even larger walls of things people don't really want to collect...)

 

Being able to get rid of things faster, I can understand, but having it be purely for "cave moving" purposes doesn't work for me. How does this actually solve the blocker issue?

[pinkgothic]

The five hour cooldown might as well be a 24-hour cooldown for me (which I think we can all agree would be fairly excessive if it applied to everyone; in me it comes from usually having a five-hour window to do Dragon Cave during the week unless I sneak on at work, which I really shouldn't be doing), so I support this.

Edited July 8, 2015 by pinkgothic

[cyradis4]

It honestly just seems like another way to cherry pick the cave. Blockers are blockers because the code says "make more". Just shoving them to the ap and hoping people will go ahead and hatch them doesn't solve anything. It mainly succeeds in making the AP even more difficult to hunt (yay for even larger walls of things people don't really want to collect...)

 

Being able to get rid of things faster, I can understand, but having it be purely for "cave moving" purposes doesn't work for me. How does this actually solve the blocker issue?

Speak for yourself, Thu. I'm regularly grabbing eggs, CB blockers usually, from the AP, hatching them.... And letting them grow up. I often am shocked to realize how many CBs I have of some breeds that I don't like. I collect 16 of each, but through haphazard raising, there are those I have 25+ of. All from the AP. All eggs that someone took from the Biomes, wasted 5 hours on.... And then abandoned.

 

It solves the blocker issue this way:

Person picks up eggs for their own reasons, but they don't actually want that egg, so.... Cooldown ends

Eggs go the the AP

Eggs get picked up by people who love low-time eggs (many of us)

Eggs get frozen or grow up - thereby entering the ratios

Over time, the ratios for those breeds improve, meaning the Cave makes less of them and more of other species

 

With this solve the blocker issue "forever"? No. But it will cause the ratios to shift far more frequently, so instead of the same blockers for years at a time, you'd end up with different breeds acting as "blockers" at various times through the year.

 

This is NOT an instant fix. Its not even a "this month" fix. This is, 6 months down the road you'll probably see a difference.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[CNR4806]

It honestly just seems like another way to cherry pick the cave. Blockers are blockers because the code says "make more". Just shoving them to the ap and hoping people will go ahead and hatch them doesn't solve anything. It mainly succeeds in making the AP even more difficult to hunt (yay for even larger walls of things people don't really want to collect...)

 

Being able to get rid of things faster, I can understand, but having it be purely for "cave moving" purposes doesn't work for me. How does this actually solve the blocker issue?

It's not hoping people to pick them up in the AP.

 

I throw things into the AP fully aware that they will be picked up. If they aren't desirable, they'll lose time until they are.

 

As far as the ratios are concerned, and seeing as the AP punting suggestion is getting no response from TJ whatsoever, this is the closest alternative for solving the current insanity of the system, and one that should take the lowest amount of dev time.

[Thuban]

1 hour is too short of a time, I would prefer the higher number of three. Its long enough to keep dedicated groups devoted to cycling the cave down a bit (leaving a chance for slower hunters who want full locks on their own terms to find things).

 

Info about my playstyle for reference to my questions, feel free to skip: Me, when I am actively playing, I hunt three things i want, and 4 to kick later. Usually those 4 eggs are things other people in the chat have asked for, that I see frequently and have no interest in. Because my schedule is hectic, there are times I will forget i even own a scroll at times (which lends itself to the reason I prefer higher timed eggs). I dont AP hunt because the types of lines I usually need are rarely there, and because I cant spend time waiting around the AP for a few days waiting on eggs I know are there that I cant see. During holidays, I would far prefer being able to see whats behind the wall, than collect more sprites I cant/wont use for lineages. When I cave hunt, if I refresh 15+ times without it moving, I sacrifice 2 slots to move it in hopes of finding what I need. If i need something bad enough, I will come here to the forum for trades, but its no secret I do NOT enjoy trading here on account of several people taking advantage of mistakes and stealing eggs from me (not realizing one way trades were set up fast enough).

 

 

 

With those small things in mind, heres my list of pros and cons, when it comes to my own playstyle:

 

Pros:

~Cave moves faster, as there is no real penalty for misclicks (support)

~Rares get more commons, as more and more blockers are moved (Cant fault this)

~Older breeds that are no longer blockers will eventually have a chance at being blockers again which means I'll finally have a chance at some of them. (yay)

~Potentially more cb holidays in AP as people start cycling for codes (ehhhh...)

~More user friendly to those who can only play in short bursts

 

Cons:

~Bigger walls of things people didn't want in the first place, preventing the ability to get at things that are higher time behind the wall. Yes, they are lower time and often incuhatchable, but its still "take these or wait until something better comes that you want... the wall will end eventually" (yuck)

~If this goes into effect around holiday releases, even bigger walls of things blocking the non holidays stuck behind the wall (as people would be more easily able to cycle for word codes and such in cave) (ew)

~ It still rather "cherry picker"-ish to me, because its an attempt to force the cave to drop more uncommons and rare, but removing the unwanted things from the equation faster. Small dedicated groups of hunters would be able to maximize their group hunting quickly in order to catch more rares than normal.

 

So overall, I can see why this would be handy to a large group of people, and accept that my own quirks are a minority. I wont support 1 hour cooldowns, 3 hours is hesitant, but ok. To get support on a 1 hour cooldown from me, I would need to see a BSA happen, that would remove the timer, in order to limit how many times it could be done.

 

[Syphoneira]

I'm quite baffled. People that (I thought) supported  kicking unwanted eggs from the biomes to the AP seem to oppose this suggestion. Isn't the end result more or less the same? I can understand AnanoKimi 's POV about the users doing the work but I can't understand the cons of the outcome presented by others. Please could someone explain the differences on outcome for both?

 

 

 

Assuming that I understand your question; just to mention, in the case of the Suggestion for the auto-kick of untaken biome eggs to the AP, the removed eggs are booted in a player-responsive basis, moving some of the excessive blockers somewhere they'll surface at a lower time to be taken and raised to count in the ratios, rather than endlessly regenerated.

 

However, if the time we must hold Cave-caught eggs is reduced too greatly, while more people might pick up more blockers to carry to the AP, this also enables the fastest catchers who may catch for trades involving often future eggs (such as 2nd gen Prizes) to continue catching more of the hard-to-come-by eggs than ever, further reducing the chances anyone else may have of catching anything currently in demand.

 

The Cave auto-dump method Suggested elsewhere exclusively boots unwanted eggs directly to the AP, helping with the ratios, while the Suggestion of the shortened cool-down for Cave eggs not only enables a somewhat higher level of human AP transport of unwanted Cave eggs to the AP, but the fastest catchers to hunt more frequently, because of being locked for shorter periods, which does not help the ratios as far as the bulk of the membership is concerned.

 

This essentially could wind up as adding in more boring, unrewarding labour for most in their spare time, from which only a few might really benefit, and which would likely result in a continuation of boring Cave hunting in general and a continued inability for most to collect sprites needed for scroll completion and lineages.

 

And I personally believe that the Cave function suggestion would probably achieve far more, regarding the correction of ratios and of biome movement increases. than anything dependent on people still sacrificing precious egg spaces, their spare time and effort to hold and transfer unwanted eggs in a game they actually play for amusement.

[SullenCat]

@Syphoneira:

I agree with you completely. Who would have thought ? The automatic kicking is a better solution. But... since that wasn't implemented, and was out there for a while, I tend to look for the next best. And I think C4 came up with the next best.

[kitsune93]

I think there should be a time limit of one hour.

 

[Vhale]

Thuban I agree with your post. It seems to me this is just about helping people farm rares. I'd rather see suggestions that help people, hmm, appreciate and use their commons. IE being able to save groups of dragons for lineage projects. Maybe being able to have trades linked on ones scroll. I think part of the reason rares have taken over is not just rarity, but it's easier to focus on a small number of dragons than the full gamut of what dragon cave has to offer. Some fixes to help that issue might help balance things out.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thuban I agree with your post. It seems to me this is just about helping people farm rares. I'd rather see suggestions that help people, hmm, appreciate and use their commons. IE being able to save groups of dragons for lineage projects. Maybe being able to have trades linked on ones scroll. I think part of the reason rares have taken over is not just rarity, but it's easier to focus on a small number of dragons than the full gamut of what dragon cave has to offer. Some fixes to help that issue might help balance things out.

I agree with Thuban and with you. The five hours is fine with me. I would like to be able to teleport eggs on CD though - when I catch that nebbie for someone, I'd like to be able to GIVE it to them - but it should stay on cooldown for the full 5 hours just the same, whoever has it.

[Kukuru]

I have mixed feelings.

 

I'd love to see this implemented, more movement in biomes = more chances to get the egg you are looking for.

 

However it will make the biomes to empty pretty fast and the good thing will become a bad one.

 

 

As for the teleport suggestion i support it 100%

[Sundew]

I agree with Thuban.

 

1 hour sounds unreasonable to me. 3 hours is acceptable.

 

A BSA is one possibility to limit how often you can reduce the time. Being able to teleport during cooldown would also be great.

[olympe]

I think its that very same reasoning that we prefer the auto kick to the AP ever 5 minutes as opposed to this because it makes it so that users don't have to divide themselves into the workers who move all the blockers out of the way and the hunters who sit there and wait for the workser to move the eggs out of the way to get what they were hoping to find by moving that blocker out of the way.

 

They waste their time and we gain from it and that seems unfair to some degree which is why I'm saying that users doing the systems job seems a tad dirty. I mean if someone wants to go ahead and move the blockers while I sit and watch the caves then sure go for it. Again, I know I and many others wont participate in that. It may just be lazyness or arrogance on my part but I would much rather have the system do the dirty work for me rather than have the system make me or anyone else do the work it should already be doing.

 

Anyone else who isnt using this argument has a personal reason. I dont know but this argument is my reason for saying no to this.

Personally, I think that both the auto-kick-to-AP suggestion and this one would work fine together, actually.

 

It's true that, if you sift through eggs from the biomes to abandon them an hour later, you're doing the "dirty" work the site could to itself. But there just might be a reward for doing so - if a rare breed (or a not-so-rare breed you're actually looking for) pop up behind the egg you took, and you actually manage to catch it. However, with only 1 hour, this doesn't cost the average player a whole day to clear their scroll. After all, there aren't that many people who can return 5 hours later to rinse and repeat, and for various reasons.

[cyradis4]

Guys:

 

PLEASE don't discuss the teleport in this thread: Its not what this thread is about and it is quite off-topic! The teleport thread has been linked to. If you don't like it in the BSA sub-forum, then talk to the mods about it. But hijacking this one to discuss something that has its own topic is rude. And besides... Teleporting while on cooldown will do NOTHING to solve the problem that this topic is trying to solve. I, and many others, who will pick up any egg from the AP will not ever pick up that same egg at 7d.... cooldown or no cooldown.

 

As for the Biomes emptying... I doubt it'll be that big of a problem. If you started with 3 hours, you could see how the biomes reacted, and adjust.

 

As for "filling up with more rares".... Most rare hunters DO NOT pick up commons, for any reason. They camp in the biomes on the 5 minute refreshes. Someone else grabbing an egg will move the biomes more, so maybe they could get more rares.... But then, it might also uncover, say..... A balloon! Or.... A Blusang! Or.... any of several dozen breeds that right now, rarely turn up in the Biomes but aren't in demand enough to cause people to go "where are these guys?" So yes, while this would help rare hunters.... It would help *everyone else* looking for anything that is not dirt common, too.

 

 

And Thu, your "con" about the bigger walls is quite false. I know it is, because I'm one of the people who does and will be picking up those eggs from the AP. So I know, from my own experience, that the instant those eggs hit 5d, they start shooting up in desirability. In fact, if I wasn't hatchie locked right now, I'd be picking up some of those current AP CBs.... Just like I currently have 6 hatchies on my scroll who came from the AP. Hatchies which would be open spaces on my scroll had they not been incu-hatchable. Just like the 7 ish other CBs that grew up in the last 24 hours or so, which I got from the AP. And which I wouldn't have otherwise had any desire to have.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Syphoneira]

@Syphoneira:

I agree with you completely. Who would have thought ? The automatic kicking is a better solution. But... since that wasn't implemented, and was out there for a while,  I tend to look for the next best.  And I think C4 came up with the next best.

 

 

 

Lol, no two people are ever going to agree on everything! But here and there, there's usually a lot of common ground.

 

(C4 comes up with a LOT of well-thought-out ideas and great posts - I always read C4's stuff with great interest even if, as previously stated, no two people will ever agree on everything, lol.)

 

But there've been a lot of Suggestions a lot of people have been begging for for years, and it can't be easy for TJ to try to read through all of them and make decisions as to what's worth the effort and time he has to spare from all the regular stuff he has to do as well.

 

 

 

Personally, I'd go with a 3-hour CD, something I've supported before, but I do feel that, unfortunately, one hour would create too much increase in other issues...

 

Having both this and the biome-to-AP auto-dump of untaken eggs implemented would be great, and if we continue having such lovely and regular Releases, we could more quickly wind up going back to a Cave which moves and shows *actual variety*, among dragons other than those of which many of us already have sufficient or more of whatever our personal 'enough' entails. A lot of us would take more of various of those blockers at low times, where our precioussssss egg spaces won't be tied up, and a lot more of us would - assuming we have space, as we often don't, when hunting, not to mention ideally having room for any misclicks - carry more CB biome Common eggs to the AP if they didn't take up egg space for such a long time, involving/exceeding the daily playing time of a number of players.

 

So, yeah, I do support this, ideally in addition to the biome auto-AP-dumping of untaken eggs, just at a compromise level so as to reduce other effects.

 

 

Edit: the Typo Queen has again defended her title!

Edited July 9, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Thuban]

And Thu, your "con" about the bigger walls is quite false. I know it is, because I'm one of the people who does and will be picking up those eggs from the AP. So I know, from my own experience, that the instant those eggs hit 5d, they start shooting up in desirability. In fact, if I wasn't hatchie locked right now, I'd be picking up some of those current AP CBs.... Just like I currently have 6 hatchies on my scroll who came from the AP. Hatchies which would be open spaces on my scroll had they not been incu-hatchable. Just like the 7 ish other CBs that grew up in the last 24 hours or so, which I got from the AP. And which I wouldn't have otherwise had any desire to have.

 

Cheers!

C4.

With those small things in mind, heres my list of pros and cons, when it comes to my own playstyle:

 

 

You can not tell me I'm wrong, when i specifically stated that my list was based on MY play style. Those are issues I see with this, that affect how I specifically prefer to play. You play differently, and from the sounds of things, have the ability to spend multiple hours a day doing your thing.

 

You are welcome, however to point out issues you see with my list, in a way that doesn't involve telling me I'm wrong though.

[cyradis4]

You can not tell me I'm wrong, when i specifically stated that my list was based on MY play style. Those are issues I see with this, that affect how I specifically prefer to play. You play differently, and from the sounds of things, have the ability to spend multiple hours a day doing your thing.

 

You are welcome, however to point out issues you see with my list, in a way that doesn't involve telling me I'm wrong though.

Begging your pardon, but you used the term "That no one wants". I was pointing out that those low-time eggs ARE wanted: by me and those that play like me. You might not want them (and apparently don't), but you used far more general terms than "I".

 

Cons:

~Bigger walls of things people didn't want in the first place, preventing the ability to get at things that are higher time behind the wall. Yes, they are lower time and often incuhatchable, but its still "take these or wait until something better comes that you want... the wall will end eventually" (yuck)

This is your exact statement. No, people didn't want them when they were 7d, but from your statement you are saying that since no one wanted them at 7d, "no one" wants them NOW, at 5d or less, and that is patently false (and I wasn't the only one who read it as that). No, you don't want them.... But that's not what you said. No, I didn't want those same eggs in the Biomes.... But in the AP, I would happily "want" them. And for me and many others, something at higher time isn't "better". In fact, I'll take a CB anything at 5d or less over a 5th gen Prize egg at 5d 12h or higher.

 

As for my time playing DC.... I don't spend hours a day playing (except when there's a debate on in the forums). What I usually do is spend a minute or two every half hour or so checking things out, like the AP or (rarely) the Biomes. I don't hunt the Biomes, because they are torture. Even on the 5 minute shuffles, the same eggs replace those just gone... Just different codes. The AP changes enough that going back every half hour, its typically a quite different looking AP. And since I collect almost anything....

 

And as for breeding....! I think you pretty much only breed Balloons? Thing is.... I breed anything. Literally any breed that I find a good match for, even if I otherwise hate that breed, I'll work with. And I do it all the time. So to you..... The ratio problem doesn't seem that huge a deal. Yes, you'd like to breed more Balloons, or find more.... But until you've tried to breed Blocker x anything else.... You won't know true frustration. I think it was, 60 Black Teas someone had.... From Pebbles! I had 30+ Olives..... Before I got an Albino. There are many, many other horror stories out there, to the point where many people are not building lineages they want to because they haven't got a shot of building them in anything less than years. Which is making the blocker situation worse, really.

 

In the end, almost all of my suggestions are geared toward the same thing: getting more of the ultra-commons into circulation.... so they stop breeding so well, and stop dropping so much in the Biomes. So its easier to use them. Not everyone is willing to collect 16 CBs of every breed, and spend 2.5 years building the same lineage. They shouldn't have their play stopped because they spend an entire year breeding the same egg (not even a no interest in the lot!) for over a year.... of two breeds that are both super common. Yes..... 60+ offspring from super commons from ultra rares is not unexpected. But from breeds that are blockers themselves?

 

I just wish TJ would do.... *something* about the situation. Something to balance out breeding, and add variety to the Biomes again. I was stunned to realize that each Boime has something like 40+ species in it (according to the Wiki).

 

Cheers!

C4.

[JavaTigress]

I just wish TJ would do.... *something* about the situation. Something to balance out breeding, and add variety to the Biomes again. I was stunned to realize that each Boime has something like 40+ species in it (according to the Wiki).

This.

 

It occurs to ME that part of the trouble with breeding is that there are SOME breeds no one wants to work with precisely because if you breed them... you only ever get that breed. Whatever you try to breed them with. Which is frustrating in the extreme to the breeders. I realize this is because those breeds are under populated according to the ratios, but I feel that it is sort of a vicious cycle. No one wants to breed them, so the ratios get more skewed... and the more they show up in the biomes... and the fewer people are willing to take them. The get viewed as pests... or worse, because if no one can use those breeds the less likely they are to be picked up when they do appear.

 

The result?

 

No one wants to breed those dragons and when they appear in the Cave's biomes, as invariably they DO because ratios...people are looking for something else.

 

I have nothing against picking up uber commons in need of a home... it just rankles to spend an egg slot on them for any length of time.

Low-time or even ER eggs would be far, FAR more likely to be grabbed by me.

I am sure that I am not the only person this is true for.

 

That is why I would totally support SOME form of the 'kick it t the AP IF no one takes it" thing.

Also the idea in question ( ALTHOUGH I do realize there are probably reasons for the cool down thing.) I would ALSO think that the suggestion for another trophy level... complete with egg slot to go with it, may help too. Perhaps a combo of these?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Silverswift

[purplehaze]

Obviously, something does need to be done. But I think one hour is too short for the cooldown and would lend itself too well to organized campaigns to clear the biomes to get at the rares. I think that would actually make it harder for people who are hunting for some of the commons that don't show up quite as often as others -- the less common commons.

 

Three hours seems like a compromise I could live with. I do feel the frustration of having to wait 5 hours to abandon something you picked up that you really don't want.

[Kegluneq]

I like the 1-hour window to abandon CB's, but maybe just for 1 or 2 eggs every 2 days or every week. For those times we misclick especially.

[CNR4806]

Obviously, something does need to be done. But I think one hour is too short for the cooldown and would lend itself too well to organized campaigns to clear the biomes to get at the rares. I think that would actually make it harder for people who are hunting for some of the commons that don't show up quite as often as others -- the less common commons.

 

Three hours seems like a compromise I could live with. I do feel the frustration of having to wait 5 hours to abandon something you picked up that you really don't want.

All the blockers that would be actively picked up and dumped in short order will be picked up again when it's time instead of self-destructing, leading to the ratios evening themselves out and allowing a more normal rare/uncommon/supposedly-common generation, instead of the current walls after walls of the same few blockers.

 

Yes, it basically amounts to the less-than-ideal situation of having the users do the site's dirty work, and personally I prefer a hybrid system of "auto-dump excess eggs to AP at the hour" + "3 hour dropping cooldown", but if the auto-dump isn't happening I'd rather take the shorter 1 hour cooldown.

Edited July 10, 2015 by CNR4806

[Thuban]

I breed and collect things other than balloons. I also collect stones, nocturnes, blue waters, water horses.. most coastal and forest breeds really. Im just known for my balloons. My hoard was a personal endeavor to try to stop them from being blockers the way they used to be (I actively tried to make them false rares). I did the same thing with fogs, and nocturnes and a few other breeds to try to slow them down from blocking.

 

 

Now, your point about the things in AP gaining value due to lower time, I do agree that they will encourage people to pick them up. However, I do not agree that filling the AP up with cbs that werent wanted at 7 days is the fix. I see the appeal of being able to cycle the cave faster. I would have LOVED that when I was still devoting a few hours (13 hours some days) a day to active hunting. Using the shorter timer with the specific intent of just moving the unwanted things to the AP to slowly "die off" until they are desirable rubs me wrong. It just seems far too exploitable, too easily.

 

 

You've got support for 3 hours. Not 1 hour.

 

 

[Syphoneira]

Speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with more low-time CB Commons in the AP, as I've seen how they're snapped up when Incuhatchable - and when people have room, which is where the extra Time-based slots would be especially handy.

 

The problem I have with a one-hour CD is that fast people catching for trade then would have a very fast potential turn-over for multiple hard-to-come-by dragons and effectively might need stop only to sleep, lol.

 

Also, I would assume that many cheaters are likely using multiple scrolls with little on them, so could be no-trophy or Bronze, limiting the catch on each to 4 or 5 dragons. If they're checked only once or twice a day, with the current 5-hour cool-down, it's bad enough, but with an hour... eeeeeps!

 

This is a case where I DO think the potentials for cheating DO need to be taken into account.