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cyradis4

Reduce Time to Abandon CB eggs

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This used to be part of the Shift Blockers to the AP thread as an alternative idea, but given how long the other idea has run (and how popular it is) and how much attention that idea gets as opposed to this alternative, I think this works best in its own thread. Also, the other idea hasn't happened, and.... The problem of imbalance is getting worse, not better.

 

 

NOTE: Time frame is arbitrary, and would probably need to be adjusted more than once.

Reduce the 5 hour wait to dump an egg to the AP to, say, 1 hour

This uses users to move eggs sitting for a while in the Biomes to the AP, where they loose time and become desirable.

Right now, many people grab eggs from the biomes, wait 5 hours, then abandon them, to move the Biomes. Others who would do so too, don't want to be locked for 5 hours. By shortening the time to abandon, you let the userbase move the unwanted, high time blockers from the Biomes to the AP. There, the eggs loose time. Once incu-hatchable, any egg no matter how generally undesirable, gets picked up. Once picked up and raised, it enters the ratios.... Which helps its breed be less of a blocker. Over time, this would undoubtedly help.

 

 

Pros:

- There is more incentive to grab blockers and dump them to the AP, where the eggs can loose time and end up wanted.

- The blocker is now in the AP, so it looses time. When it hits the AP, it'll have likely lost days already and will be picked up and hatched pretty quick.

- no fancy formula needed. The game mechanics already in place take care of the problem

- Users already do this, they just have to sacrifice one of their eggs slots for 5 hours to do so.

- The timer is long enough that one user can't just grab ever egg in a biome, emptying the whole thing. At most, a single user could grab 7 eggs each hour.

- Probably won't require any sort of fancy programming. In fact, might not require any programming at all, just changing what a constant is.

 

Cons:

- Multiple users could get together to empty a biome in order to get the rares in it. However, that still means the blockers are going to be picked up and raised 4 days later, when it's a lot "cheaper" to do so. This means good things for the ratios.

- Runs the risk of the cave running out of eggs, as all the blockers are tossed to the AP. However, if the eggs were already blocking the biomes, what difference is there really between an empty biome and a biome full of blockers you don't want? Also, the biomes with lots of desireables are already run out of eggs occasionally.

 

Notes on both of the above:

- this would add a lot more eggs to the AP, but it would also produce more movement in the Biomes at the same time, as users would be a lot more inclined to grab 7 then toss those 7.

 

- Many users would bite less, in the hopes of a repulse on a miss-click. So, fewer Vamps, probably.

 

- The addition of a 2nd AP, basically identical to the one we already have just a 2nd place for eggs to go (ie, they are drawing from the same source of abandoned eggs, and it's random chance which one a particular egg goes into) has been discussed. In general, people are against a 2nd AP.

 

 

 

Cheers!

C4.

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While the cave timer is annoying, im not a fan of getting rid of it purely to make biomes move faster.

 

I would be /fine/ with teleport being able to move a timer-locked egg (for those times when people in chat are saying they need x breed and never see them) as long as the remainder of the timer stayed.

 

Shortening the timer only makes the AP that much more frustrating to hunt for those eggs you just /can't/ find in the cave sometimes. Yes, lower time blockers are more enjoyable to grab from the AP when possible, but not everyone hunts AP, and not everyone wants low time eggs.

 

 

There is nothing like spending 8 hours trying to find a balloon in the ap, when the cave is refusing to drop them. I have pairings I have been trying to breed balloons from since Jan. Balloons are commonly linked into being a blocker breed, despite the fact they havent locked a biome since I started hoarding them a few years ago, and even up to 6 months before. If balloons were so common that they couldnt be bred, or caught reliably, how would this suggestion help?

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While the cave timer is annoying, im not a fan of getting rid of it purely to make biomes move faster.

 

I would be /fine/ with teleport being able to move a timer-locked egg (for those times when people in chat are saying they need x breed and never see them) as long as the remainder of the timer stayed.

 

Shortening the timer only makes the AP that much more frustrating to hunt for those eggs you just /can't/ find in the cave sometimes. Yes, lower time blockers are more enjoyable to grab from the AP when possible, but not everyone hunts AP, and not everyone wants low time eggs.

 

 

There is nothing like spending 8 hours trying to find a balloon in the ap, when the cave is refusing to drop them. I have pairings I have been trying to breed balloons from since Jan. Balloons are commonly linked into being a blocker breed, despite the fact they havent locked a biome since I started hoarding them a few years ago, and even up to 6 months before. If balloons were so common that they couldnt be bred, or caught reliably, how would this suggestion help?

I'm with Thuban. Being able to teleport eggs on CD is MUCH more useful.

 

Also on the difficulty of finding CB balloons.

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What this would do:

 

User C4 goes to the Biomes, knowing that she'll have something else to do for hte next hour and won't be able to hunt. So, C4 goes and grabs 7 of the eggs that have been sitting in the Biomes for the last 4 minutes.

 

1 hour later, C4 returns, and dumps those eggs to the AP, where they loose time. A couple days later, they show up as those CB incu-hatchables people love so much, and are promptly adopted, raised, and enter the ratios.

 

This happens often, with many other users. Over time, those breeds that block the Biomes get more and more of their numbers into circulation, shifting their ratios to be more in line with the not-so-extremely-common dragons.

 

This allows more of those not-so-extremely-common dragons to show up. Including those Balloons someone loves so much.

 

 

 

What happens now:

User C4 strolls into the Biomes, sees the same dragons she has 16+ CBs of already, knows that while she has no time now she will in an hour, and instead of locking herself for 5 hours with dragons that are useless to her, leaves her scroll empty.

 

So those 7 blockers get deleted at the end of the hour, because no one wants them when they are 7d eggs. Who would? Most users have plenty of that uber common already.

 

Then, those 7 blockers reapear with different codes the next hour, because their breed's ratios are STILL out of whack, and the Cave needs to make up for them. That means that that CB Balloon behind them won't show up.... and it too gets deleted at the end of the hour.

 

 

 

Personally? I would not accept a Carmine, or most dragon breeds at this point, at 7d. But I will happily adopt any CB dragon, and any lineaged dragon (if I have freezes), if its incu-hatchable. Most of the people I know are pretty much the same way.

 

Right now, every single CB you take from the AP has had someone waste 5 hours of their scroll time on it to put it there.

 

Tell me.... How many CBs have you taken from the Biomes today, spent 5 hours locked with, then dumped to the AP for other user's enjoyment? Hm? For most I'll wager, the answer to that is "none". But if the cost of moving that egg from the Biomes to the AP is reduced, it'll happen more frequently than it does now. Which will move the Biomes and over time, help the blockers.

 

By the way.... Who in their right mind would accept a CB uber-common at 7d? For most, they'd prefer to go hunt the low time eggs in the AP... Which came from kind users / miss-clicks in the first place.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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Full support. I don't like hunting in the Cave much anymore, and a lot of that frustration comes from uber-common miss-clicks.

Edited by Wahya

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I would be much happier having the ability to teleport new eggs and take out the "too young" issue entirely. That way there is a fansite full of misclicked eggs which people can visit and accept the transfers for. If you don't want the egg, then surely someone else will!

 

EDIT: I meant a fansite dedicated to the cause. Not fill up the fansites which already exist.

Edited by PixelShark

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I would be much happier having the ability to teleport new eggs and take out the "too young" issue entirely. That way there is a fansite full of misclicked eggs which people can visit and accept the transfers for. If you don't want the egg, then surely someone else will!

 

EDIT: I meant a fansite dedicated to the cause. Not fill up the fansites which already exist.

From my own experience.... Very few people choose to take a 7d egg when they can grab an identical one at 5d from the AP, right then and there.

 

And until someone grabs that egg, its still there, sitting on your scroll, for 5 hours. Locking you from doing what you want to do. And someone probably won't grab that egg. Why would they? There's identical ones in the AP that they can hatch far sooner.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Count me as one of the few who would use the heck out of such a fansite. I don't generally grab commons from the AP because it's better for everyone if I hunt them in the biomes, but sometimes the common doesn't feel like showing up quickly and I'd rather just get it over with so I can get back to what I was doing without 5 minute interruptions.

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From my own experience.... Very few people choose to take a 7d egg when they can grab an identical one at 5d from the AP, right then and there.

 

And until someone grabs that egg, its still there, sitting on your scroll, for 5 hours. Locking you from doing what you want to do. And someone probably won't grab that egg. Why would they? There's identical ones in the AP that they can hatch far sooner.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Most AP eggs are bred. Where it would be nice to get rid of eggs to the AP to move the biomes, having users do the work seems kinda dirty.

 

I dont want to waste my time move eggs from the cave to the biomes just to get what I want from the biomes, and those who do it not caring whether something nice pops up bless them but few are doing that. The only ones that do that are newbies but thats because they don't know about rarity, hunting, ratios, etc.

 

No I much prefer the ability to teleport eggs on abandon coold down (within its 5 hours) because I more often than not hunt the caves actually. I hate bred eggs that I personally did not breed because I do not need them. I am probably not the only one who hunts the caves over the AP and only uses the AP for the occasional goodie.

 

Even if I accidentally lock my self I can always bite it a few hours in and such and that gives me a lovely little CB vamp to raise and I don't mind. As of late with Xeno wyrm hunting I have been getting wonderful goodies from the cave and would much rather see the site doing that kind of movement for me rather than making me do its dirty work for it and wasting the time I am using to abandon a bloody egg to hunt the caves.

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There are other threads for teleporting while on Abandon Cooldown. They keep getting moved to the BSA subforum, and this idea is not and WILL not be about teleport cooldown vs abandon cooldown, because there is already a thread about it.

 

*points everyone to the BSA sub-forum

 

Don't blame me that the Mods banished that idea to the discard pile, and please don't discuss that already suggested idea here. That's not what this topic is about.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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From my own experience.... Very few people choose to take a 7d egg when they can grab an identical one at 5d from the AP, right then and there.

 

And until someone grabs that egg, its still there, sitting on your scroll, for 5 hours. Locking you from doing what you want to do. And someone probably won't grab that egg. Why would they? There's identical ones in the AP that they can hatch far sooner.

 

Cheers!

C4.

There are some eggs which may not be in the AP for a while, though. For example, I can see there being conflict with Sunrise/Sunset Dragons as well as Sunstone/Moonstone Dragons. Granted, these are only two breeds out of majority. Also, cave eggs are guaranteed to be CB. This is good for certain lineages. And your best bet, in my opinion, to find Unbreedables is going to be via the caves (aside from the DC trade threads).

 

I also believe that the inability to trade a brand new egg from the caves can be somewhat crippling. Unless this exists in order to prevent a loophole?

 

However, I do agree with you. If I'm wanting a Common egg, I typically sift through the AP and come up with something decent. And I can also see the conflict which still arises from what you're saying. Although, I suppose it depends on the rarity of the egg you offer up as well--On the fansite Eggs Around the World, eggs in the trade section that are marked as "free" tend to go fairly quickly. I feel as though you could have your egg gone within five hours.

 

I'm not too sure. I can still see your point entirely, and I agree with a lot of it. I'm in a lot of conflict here.

 

 

EDIT: WOW. A ton of posts went through while I was writing all of that. I just got to the forums yesterday--what is this about not starting certain threads? I'd be happy to delete my post if there is an issue.

Edited by PixelShark

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I like it in theory, but in reality, I'd rather it be reduced to something more like 3 hours.

 

Otherwise, you'd have too many fast (non-cheating) catchers who trade a lot going almost constantly, especially if trading for future eggs.

 

In all of the time I've spent hunting during this Release, I've yet to see a single 'trade fodder' Pyral anywhere and I've spent more time in Alpine than, and I''d say at least as much time in the Coast as, the others.

 

With the fast trade fodder catchers going that much more and longer, being able to pass over eggs for multiple trades after only an hour, I'm afraid that it'd be mano a mana for the fastest only right now, and continue from there, lol.

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EDIT: WOW. A ton of posts went through while I was writing all of that. I just got to the forums yesterday--what is this about not starting certain threads? I'd be happy to delete my post if there is an issue.

You've done nothing wrong, its just that the whole teleport while on cooldown thing comes up a lot, and each time it does the mods move it to the BSA sub-forum... where it collects dust and gets no discussion, because few people frequent the BSA sub-forum. Certain users bring it up everything there is a thread even remotely theoretically *squints really hard* related thread.

 

This topic isn't about that, and has nothing to do with that.

 

EDIT:

3 hours could certainly work, after all.... The time of one hour was very arbitrary!

 

EDIT EDIT:

Here's the link to the BSA thread for Teleport modifications:

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=124811&st=0

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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You've done nothing wrong, its just that the whole teleport while on cooldown thing comes up a lot, and each time it does the mods move it to the BSA sub-forum... where it collects dust and gets no discussion, because few people frequent the BSA sub-forum. Certain users bring it up everything there is a thread even remotely theoretically *squints really hard* related thread.

 

This topic isn't about that, and has nothing to do with that.

 

EDIT:

3 hours could certainly work, after all.... The time of one hour was very arbitrary!

 

Cheers!

C4.

Ah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up for me--I'd hate to start something I didn't know I was even starting.

 

Back to discussing time reduction!

 

I agree with the three-hour wait. Although, I can also see a 2h30min timer, as in halving the typical time. However, that feels like a very...specified time. So three hours may be wiser!

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I'm quite baffled. People that (I thought) supported kicking unwanted eggs from the biomes to the AP seem to oppose this suggestion. Isn't the end result more or less the same? I can understand AnanoKimi 's POV about the users doing the work but I can't understand the cons of the outcome presented by others. Please could someone explain the differences on outcome for both?

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I'm quite baffled. People that (I thought) supported kicking unwanted eggs from the biomes to the AP seem to oppose this suggestion. Isn't the end result more or less the same? I can understand AnanoKimi 's POV about the users doing the work but I can't understand the cons of the outcome presented by others. Please could someone explain the differences on outcome for both?

The outcome is the exact same, and the reason for suggesting it is the exact same. In fact, I originally had this as an alternative in that exact same thread. But... Its been years, and the Shift to AP hasn't happened, so... Decided to pull this out of the other thread, in the hopes that something would get implemented.

 

Honestly? I think certain users are trying to take over this topic to discuss the teleport wait.... Which those same users have been trying really hard to get out of the BSA sub-forum.

 

Otherwise.... I'm as baffled as you.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Does TJ agreed with the reduction of cooldown period to 1 hour?

 

Honestly, I prefer this idea: Move eggs that sit in a Biome for 5 minutes to the AP simply because it's all automatic. I don't think the users would like to have to hunt and clear the cave and wait an hour to dump a clave blocker just to be helpful to others, everybody wants to hunt for themselves.

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Does TJ agreed with the reduction of cooldown period to 1 hour?

 

Honestly, I prefer this idea: Move eggs that sit in a Biome for 5 minutes to the AP simply because it's all automatic. I don't think the users would like to have to hunt and clear the cave and wait an hour to dump a clave blocker just to be helpful to others, everybody wants to hunt for themselves.

Who knows what TJ agrees with? The 1 hour was completely arbitrary. 3 hours would be better than what we have now. I think 3 hrs would be too long, but... time would tell.

 

And yea, I prefer the other too (I suggested both), but at this point... I'd take anything I could get to help with the situation. Considering how long ago I made that suggestion... It was actually before we had the egg shuffle on the 5 min. Certain blockers are starting to get well out of hand. When it takes years to breed very common x very common but just 6 months to breed uncommon x uncommon... Something is wrong. I figure, the more ideas that are out there... THe more chance that TJ will see one he likes enough to give a try to.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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The outcome is the exact same, and the reason for suggesting it is the exact same. In fact, I originally had this as an alternative in that exact same thread. But... Its been years, and the Shift to AP hasn't happened, so... Decided to pull this out of the other thread, in the hopes that something would get implemented.

 

Honestly? I think certain users are trying to take over this topic to discuss the teleport wait.... Which those same users have been trying really hard to get out of the BSA sub-forum.

 

Otherwise.... I'm as baffled as you.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Your approach seems quite reasonable and I believe that more options are presented to the admin, higher the chances he will like one of them.

Not sure why the teleport without using BSA should not be suggested instead of suffocating other suggestions.

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The outcome is the exact same, and the reason for suggesting it is the exact same. In fact, I originally had this as an alternative in that exact same thread. But... Its been years, and the Shift to AP hasn't happened, so... Decided to pull this out of the other thread, in the hopes that something would get implemented.

 

Honestly? I think certain users are trying to take over this topic to discuss the teleport wait.... Which those same users have been trying really hard to get out of the BSA sub-forum.

 

Otherwise.... I'm as baffled as you.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I think because of what I stated and what danicast mentioned, not everyone is gonna move the biomes without wanting some sort of gain. Cave hunters arent gonna waste their time with dumping blockers if it cuts into their chances of getting something good. Thats why.

 

I know I sure as hell wont cut into my hunting time just to move blockers. The blockers can sit there for all I care, because I know the moment I go to move it out of the way I may loose whatever I was possibly aiming to get behind it.

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I think because of what I stated and what danicast mentioned, not everyone is gonna move the biomes without wanting some sort of gain. Cave hunters arent gonna waste their time with dumping blockers if it cuts into their chances of getting something good. Thats why.

 

I know I sure as hell wont cut into my hunting time just to move blockers. The blockers can sit there for all I care, because I know the moment I go to move it out of the way I may loose whatever I was possibly aiming to get behind it.

People already do move the blockers, for a variety of reasons. This is just enabling those same people to move more.

 

*shrug*

 

Most of the CBs in the AP come from people doing just that: grabbing 7 in a row. Some do it because they have space, others do it in the hopes of grabbing rares as they show up in the just vacated spots. Either way.... Reducing the wait time will have the same result, even if its not people getting together to do it intentionally.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I think because of what I stated and what danicast mentioned, not everyone is gonna move the biomes without wanting some sort of gain. Cave hunters arent gonna waste their time with dumping blockers if it cuts into their chances of getting something good. Thats why.

 

I know I sure as hell wont cut into my hunting time just to move blockers. The blockers can sit there for all I care, because I know the moment I go to move it out of the way I may loose whatever I was possibly aiming to get behind it.

I think that the point of view, that you and Danicast share, is clear and honest. I was and am puzzled by other posts.

Anyway would be easier to persuade me to do the manual kicking once a week or so if the waiting time was only 1 hour vs 5.

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I think that the point of view, that you and Danicast share, is clear and honest. I was and am puzzled by other posts.

Anyway would be easier to persuade me to do the manual kicking once a week or so if the waiting time was only 1 hour vs 5.

I think its that very same reasoning that we prefer the auto kick to the AP ever 5 minutes as opposed to this because it makes it so that users don't have to divide themselves into the workers who move all the blockers out of the way and the hunters who sit there and wait for the workser to move the eggs out of the way to get what they were hoping to find by moving that blocker out of the way.

 

They waste their time and we gain from it and that seems unfair to some degree which is why I'm saying that users doing the systems job seems a tad dirty. I mean if someone wants to go ahead and move the blockers while I sit and watch the caves then sure go for it. Again, I know I and many others wont participate in that. It may just be lazyness or arrogance on my part but I would much rather have the system do the dirty work for me rather than have the system make me or anyone else do the work it should already be doing.

 

Anyone else who isnt using this argument has a personal reason. I dont know but this argument is my reason for saying no to this.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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If I waste slots with CB eggs to dump later, it's usually before I go to work or sleep. So I'm not using time that I would've spent hunting anyway.

 

No other opinion, I'm constantly scroll-locked with eggs these days of the bred and cb variety so I can't complain about how the cave is working.

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I like the idea of the 5 hour hold be reduced to 3 ( 1 hr is just too short, in my opinion and could easily get abused ).

 

I also wouldn't mind a cooldown similar to the kill command under actions. You get a small number of releases ( say two ), so that if you miss-click you can abandon, but if you do it too often, it locks it back as it is now.

 

 

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