Jump to content
Gruff

Alts for older dragon types.

Recommended Posts

People can make new line with only ascended dragons instead of ascend an old dragon that already have several descendants. Most players are careful about lineages so I don't really see this as a problem.

 

The biggest advantage is that you don't need to hunt and raise dragons again, you can ascend the dragons that you already have. Also there is no need to new eggs or new descriptions, all you have to do is pick that dragon that you already have and ascend it. I really think it's a better system than alts.

Share this post


Link to post
But again, it would have to be strictly commons.

I definitely agree.

 

Actually, this would be best to use on caveblockers. Anything that'd make people more willing to grab those would make everyone on DC happy. The more people grabbing and KEEPING caveblockers, the better, especially if alts still count towards the ratios. The more people breeding caveblockers for alts, the better the chances for non-caveblockers to show up.

 

 

A good portion of said caveblockers need updates, anyway, at least to me.

 

This probably would've defused the whole Frill Fiasco back in the day too, and there IS talk of rereleasing them with a recolored alt. The spriter is willing, everyone is willing, there's just no actual implementation yet.

 

I'm sure there's many spriters of caveblockers who are saddened every time they hear people complaining about THEIR babies that they poured hours and hours of effort into making, only to be unappreciated because people want to see other dragons instead.

Share this post


Link to post
The biggest advantage is that you don't need to hunt and raise dragons again, you can ascend the dragons that you already have.

Considering that the fundamental concept of Dragon Cave is to hunt and raise dragons, I fail to see how that would be an advantage for the site.

Share this post


Link to post

But the problem with caveblockers are not the sprites, some of the caveblockers are beautiful, I collect several of them and I appreciate them immensely. The problem that some people see in the caveblockers is how much common they are and the fact that there is not enough people wanting them, people want uncommons and rares. I don't see this problem changing in case of alts, because we already have several common dragons that have alts and the non-alt eggs are always clogging the AP (like the purple ridgewings). The presence of alts only will make the alts desireable, it won't make the old common desireable. But the ascension will make the common desireable because you can change the sprite to another one at any time for any common that are older than 6 months.

 

Considering that the fundamental concept of Dragon Cave is to hunt and raise dragons, I fail to see how that would be an advantage for the site.

It's an advantage for the player. The site doesn't need anything, it works beautifully as it is now.

Edited by danicast

Share this post


Link to post

But the problem with caveblockers are not the sprites, some of the caveblockers are beautiful, I collect several of them and I appreciate them immensely. The problem that some people see in the caveblockers is how much common they are and the fact that there is not enough people wanting them, people want uncommons and rares. I don't see this problem changing in case of alts, because we already have several common dragons that have alts and the non-alt eggs are always clogging the AP (like the purple ridgewings). The presence of alts only will make the alts desireable, it won't make the old common desireable. But the ascension will make the common desireable because you can change the sprite to another one at any time for any common that are older than 6 months.

 

 

It's an advantage for the player. The site doesn't need anything, it works beautifully as it is now.

That's the reason I would prefer to have the older sprites as Alts. People would catch and raise new and exciting releases and the older sprites would still be valuable because they would be Alts.

.......

The site is the reason why players can play. What would be the meaning of the site if dragons weren't hunted and raised?

.......

I guess that we can only agree on disagreeing.

Edited by NotBambi

Share this post


Link to post

That's the reason I would prefer to have the older sprites as Alts. People would catch and raise new and exciting releases and the older sprites would still be valuable because they would be Alts.

I think you mean the new sprites will be alts because the old sprites are already in thousands of scrolls so they can't be the alts. They already exist and they can't be replaced because they are present in hundreds of lineages. So the only way to release new sprites is as an alt of old dragons.

Edited by danicast

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, so how about this idea then: Have new ones released side by side with current ones (higher ratios for new ones at first, so new ones can catch up if needed) Then over time, while new ones keep priority, have the old ones breed and drop in cave at "alt black" like ratios. This way, new players that come in a year after the changes arent stuck in a position where it is impossible to get them as cbs or breds, people who are attached to the originals can still collect them, but at the same time, its far more likely you will get the newer version. That sound fair?

 

Edit to clarify the idea:

~Release new versions of things as its own breed, alongside the original (new ones at 100% drop rate at first)

~Over time, have old versions start dropping and breeding at equal chances, until both versions have evened out.

~Once numbers hit TJs magic number, have old versions drop as the alt so knew ones keep priority (however, unlike current alts, still allow cb old versions to drop, if possible in cave rarely, so that new people coming in, and those who prefer old ones can still collect them as cbs, even if it has to be at rare levels)

No, I meant exactly what I wrote. Basically, I like Thuban's idea.

Edited by NotBambi

Share this post


Link to post

I disagree with this idea, I think the new alts should drop at the same proportion of the old ones and these numbers should not change, the alt must be so common as the original dragon to avoid hunting problems, changes in marketing and comotion.

 

It's one more reason why I prefer ascension. Works better.

Edited by danicast

Share this post


Link to post

I disagree with this idea, I think the new alts should drop at the same proportion of the old ones and these numbers should not change, the alt must be so common as the original dragon to avoid hunting problems, changes in marketing and comotion.

 

It's one more reason why I prefer ascension. Works better.

Again, we agree on something: that we disagree.

English only please. Sorry!

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

Share this post


Link to post

Again, we agree on something: that we disagree.

Yeah, but to make any idea fly, the idea must have the support of a great number of players. I don't see this happening to this idea as it is being proposed at the moment.

 

This idea needs better solutions that make all players happy and better game mechanics. People are attached to their dragons and lots of people invest a lot of time making lineages, the suggestion that a sprite will become less available with time is going to upset a lot of people, specially the breeders because it's terrible when you are building a line and don't get the dragon that you need because you keeping getting an alt.

Edited by danicast

Share this post


Link to post

The point of dragcave is to collect dragons.

 

I much prefer the alt idea because sure, people will dump them in the AP if they don't alt, but they'd only know they're alts when they're hatched, and they're still getting bred and thus there's less caveblockers blocking the cave. Not much different than people dumping caveblockers in the AP after 5 hours anyway. Better, actually, because people are less likely to grab CB caveblockers from the AP either.

 

 

And I don't know about you, but I've never seen a hatchling stay in the AP for more than a few seconds no matter what it is. A free dragon that doesn't take up an egg slot? Yes please.

 

You never see a bred black or vine in the AP for very long either, and people do grab the CBs from the cave to try and breed more. Blacks and vines are common too, but they're not caveblockers because people actively grab them. I still reflex click CB blacks because I remember when they WERE considered rares. xd.png

 

I mean this is the whole purpose for the holly raffle. Grab a certain known caveblocker, raise it on your scroll, help drive down the caveblocker status. It's very true that while this is going on, I don't see many flamingos in either the cave or the AP. Ditto for purple dorsals and spitfires etc from previous years.

 

Alts work for fixing ratios of commons, that's been proven a while ago with the blacks and vines, and now undines. Alts are always going to be highly desirable, especially PBs. And doubly so for PB 2nd gens, I see a lot of requests for those in the trading forums.

 

And given the rarity of getting alts, if you breed an alt and you don't want one, the chances of breeding two in a row is pretty low, so it wouldn't interfere with lineages, unlike the ascending idea.

 

Ascending a dragon could be just as bad as if someone decided to turn one of their dragons into a zombie, or even killed it outright, and it happened to be in the lineage of one of your prized dragons. Remember the owner of several 2nd gen prizes who decided to maliciously ruin lineages by killing them?

 

I dunno, I don't really like the idea of turning dragons you have already into something else. Zombies are enough for that aspect of things. I'd rather have another reason to collect more dragons.

Share this post


Link to post

@zaverxi

Your POV make perfect sense and I must agree with them. Thank you for providing some clarity , my shocked-by-fireworks brain cells really appreciate smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
The updating that was done with Horses and several other breeds a couple of years ago was not a problem for me, since the character of the old sprite remained intact and evident in the updated sprites. As long as the nature of the dragon is not changed, updating is fine. Just don't replace the Mona Lisa with a Picasso.

 

I would hate to see any of the breeds retired.

Why is having updates like this such an issue. its not a revamp, its not a replacement, its a touch up, and update. Nothing is being moved or changed or taken away, just made to look a little nicer.

 

Also

 

I much prefer the alt idea because sure, people will dump them in the AP if they don't alt, but they'd only know they're alts when they're hatched

 

No, I'd hate this. I don't want to waste an egg space for some ugly sprite I don't want just to find out once its hatched. Thats why black and vine alts are so frustrating but at least black and vines look nice and those I don't mind keeping. If ugly old sprites are gonna take up my time in having to hatch them first then I would much rather stalk and try to have someone else waste their time hatching out an updated version of that ugly sprite for me and just trade for it.

 

I would rather see old and new sprites of that same dragon be introduced like ridegewing or dorsal alts where one type has its own egg, and the other has another.

 

Purple dorsals have a purple egg, red dorsals have a red and so it would go with old and new sprites. Old sprites have a specific egg for them and new sprites have their own egg though they both share the description. That way the most anyone has to waste is 5 hours before dumping it if they don't bite it first.

Share this post


Link to post

I think this could be fun

 

or

It could be cool if every time a dragon got a drastic change to its sprite the old sprite becomes a rare alt while the new sprite becomes the main sprite non-alts will have.

 

Like lets say a the gold was changed again and a new sprite was made all of your regualrs would become the new sprites while the old sprite becomes a new alt to attempt to breed.

Sure some will have several alts but more alts more fun I say and all the people who miss the old sprites can breed a little egg full of old DC nostalgia

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Why is having updates like this such an issue. its not a revamp, its not a replacement, its a touch up, and update. Nothing is being moved or changed or taken away, just made to look a little nicer.

Because for some people it ISN'T nicer. I recall the rather heartbreaking posts by someone I haven't seen in ages, whose favourite sprites were the sunsets - and after they were changed in a way I hadn't even noticed till they posted, they just - didn't like them any more - and then they posted their lineages - and that small colour change had indeed completely changed the look of them.

 

Eve a small change can ruin the look of a lineage.

Share this post


Link to post
Ascending a dragon could be just as bad as if someone decided to turn one of their dragons into a zombie, or even killed it outright, and it happened to be in the lineage of one of your prized dragons. Remember the owner of several 2nd gen prizes who decided to maliciously ruin lineages by killing them?

Thanks for pointing that out. However the introduction of new sprites (I mean revamps, I don't mind minor updates) is handled, I'd hate if it has the potential to ruin lineages. Which is also the reason why I want both the old and the new sprites available as both cb and bred ones.

Share this post


Link to post

Because for some people it ISN'T nicer. I recall the rather heartbreaking posts by someone I haven't seen in ages, whose favourite sprites were the sunsets - and after they were changed in a way I hadn't even noticed till they posted, they just - didn't like them any more - and then they posted their lineages - and that small colour change had indeed completely changed the look of them.

 

Eve a small change can ruin the look of a lineage.

 

 

 

I'm with fuzzy - I used to love SunRises and some of the Seasonals, among others, before they were changed, and I think the fact should be considered that such alterations are effectively taking collectables away from people who value them in order to give others something new that they might prefer, when it's perfectly possibly to let everyone keep what they've collected because they like the sprite as it is, and simply Release a new variation so that people have a choice without anyone losing what they already have, sprites and lineages both.

 

Nobody is ever going to like all sprites because we all have different tastes and it really doesn't seem right for some people's tastes to be disregarded to the point where they're deprived of part of their collection to suit the tastes of other people.

 

 

Edit: had a spare word left in a sentence which I figure I'll keep aside in case I need it later... laugh.gif

Edited by Syphoneira

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

I'm with fuzzy - I used to love SunRises and some of the Seasonals, among others, before they were changed, and I think the fact should be considered that such alterations are effectively taking collectables away from people who value them in order to give others something new that they might prefer, when it's perfectly possibly to let everyone keep what they've collected because they like the sprite as it is, and simply Release a new variation so that people have a choice without anyone losing what they already have, sprites and lineages both.

 

Nobody is ever going to like all sprites because we all have different tastes and it really doesn't seem right for some people's tastes to be disregarded to the point where they're deprived of part of their collection to suit the tastes of other people.

 

 

Edit: had a spare word left in a sentence which I figure I'll keep aside in case I need it later... laugh.gif

Syphoneira my dear,

You know that I love your ideas. You know also that DC will keep changing, possibly improving, at least in my book. Lightning and anatomy minimal fixes will be added, even more significant changes will happen. Did everybody left DC when the Gold sprites were modified? No? I didn't think so. I do not think that we can stop changes (Who did move my cheese?) the best we can do is to provide enough input so it will, hopefully, be integrated on changes.

Share this post


Link to post

Syphoneira my dear,

You know that I love your ideas. You know also that DC will keep changing, possibly improving, at least in my book. Lightning and anatomy minimal fixes will be added, even more significant changes will happen. Did everybody left DC when the Gold sprites were modified? No? I didn't think so. I do not think that we can stop changes (Who did move my cheese?) the best we can do is to provide enough input so it will, hopefully, be integrated on changes.

It's okay, I don't think we need to worry about this, TJ said himself yesterday that small adjustments already are part of the process but larger changes will happen much slower. I don't think he wants another comotion like what happened with the golds.

So yeah, keep discussing, it doesn't mean that this idea will be ever implemented considering that proposes a radical change in how the breeds works and if TJ decide to implement this, it will probably made it very slowly (wich based in the fact that there are suggestions here proposed 5 years ago that were not implemented, means that we can wait years before TJ considers to implement this one).

Edited by danicast

Share this post


Link to post

Syphoneira my dear,

You know that I love your ideas. You know also that DC will keep changing, possibly improving, at least in my book. Lightning and anatomy minimal fixes will be added, even more significant changes will happen. Did everybody left DC when the Gold sprites were modified? No? I didn't think so. I do not think that we can stop changes (Who did move my cheese?) the best we can do is to provide enough input so it will, hopefully, be integrated on changes.

 

 

 

Lol, the thing is that we all have different tastes and ideas of what constitutes improvements, so why can't people keep what they already have and collected because they liked those sprites and lineages, and have the 'improved' versions Released as a variation?

 

Why do some people have to lose out on an existing good already in their possession so that somebody else can have something new and different that they want?

 

Seems rather silly to me... we certainly won't all like all sprites - and it's never going to happen that we all will like the same things, nor should we 'have to'.

 

 

No, granted, not everyone left because the Golds were changed, or because other sprites were, but it made a huge difference to the way many people felt about DC, realizing that the fruit of all of their time and effort could be taken away so easily from what had proven to be insecure scrolls, and it certainly contributed to the numbers dropping off as other long-standing reasons, such as slow-moving biomes and long stretches without regular Releases, accumulated to the point they stopped playing regularly or at all. These things add up...

 

 

Edit: PS, dunno who moved your Cheese, but I'd be rather suspicious of the mice... unsure.giflaugh.gif

Edited by Syphoneira

Share this post


Link to post

I understand that people won't always like the updated art, but I've yet to see an old sprite I preferred to the new one. I'm glad TJ isn't adverse to making little updates every once in a while just because some people are adverse to change, and I trust him to reserve changes for actual objective improvements. All the complaints in the wake of changes just makes me feel like an outlier for enjoying change.

Share this post


Link to post
I understand that people won't always like the updated art, but I've yet to see an old sprite I preferred to the new one. I'm glad TJ isn't adverse to making little updates every once in a while just because some people are adverse to change, and I trust him to reserve changes for actual objective improvements. All the complaints in the wake of changes just makes me feel like an outlier for enjoying change.

 

 

 

Well, with the suggestion of Releasing Alts for older dragons, everyone can be happy and have what they like, without anyone losing anything that matters to them. smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post

Well, with the suggestion of Releasing Alts for older dragons, everyone can be happy and have what they like, without anyone losing anything that matters to them.  smile.gif

 

I dont think so... You may keep the old sprites and other people keep the new sprites, but what about the breeding mechanics? this will piss off many players, because of the same reason some people get mad when breeding nebulas(or catching), stripe x stripe breeding, and the relatively recent released gemstones.

 

In any case, I dont care if we can come up with an idea that lets us keep the old and the possibly updated sprites, but I surely not like this suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post

I understand that people won't always like the updated art, but I've yet to see an old sprite I preferred to the new one. I'm glad TJ isn't adverse to making little updates every once in a while just because some people are adverse to change, and I trust him to reserve changes for actual objective improvements. All the complaints in the wake of changes just makes me feel like an outlier for enjoying change.

Well, not all updates were small ones.

 

user posted image => user posted image + user posted image

 

user posted image => user posted image + user posted image

 

user posted image => user posted image

 

Did the anatomy, shading, lighting and so on get impoved? Definitely. But the new sprites just don't look the same. Old golds, for example, looked exceptionally good with whites - both males and females, often found in mixed checkers / alternating checkers. Now, these lineages just look messy. The old Val lost a lot of its fierceness and dynamic look. The sunsets, despite looking much more three-dimensionals and all, got a not-so-subtle color change that might have ruined lineages for some people. Luckily, I wasn't affected, so I don't have an issue with sunsets and actually love the new look - but other people might see things very differently.

 

 

Still, most of our updates were really good and didn't really affect the overall look. Just look at Waters, Whiptails, Horses (again, with a slight change in hue or Shadow Walkers - the last of which happened at community request very soon after the release.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, not all updates were small ones.

 

user posted image => user posted image + user posted image

 

user posted image => user posted image + user posted image

 

user posted image => user posted image

 

Did the anatomy, shading, lighting and so on get impoved? Definitely. But the new sprites just don't look the same. Old golds, for example, looked exceptionally good with whites - both males and females, often found in mixed checkers / alternating checkers. Now, these lineages just look messy. The old Val lost a lot of its fierceness and dynamic look. The sunsets, despite looking much more three-dimensionals and all, got a not-so-subtle color change that might have ruined lineages for some people. Luckily, I wasn't affected, so I don't have an issue with sunsets and actually love the new look - but other people might see things very differently.

 

 

Still, most of our updates were really good and didn't really affect the overall look. Just look at Waters, Whiptails, Horses (again, with a slight change in hue or Shadow Walkers - the last of which happened at community request very soon after the release.

The trouble, as I see it, Olympe is that taste IS subjective.

 

What one person likes on a sprite or put together in a lineage, another might not.

 

That, unfortunately is a fact.

 

I can see saying 'no updates' if the artist was dead set against it.... but I don't think you are going to make ALL of the users happy, whatever you do. I for one LIKE the new golds... though like I said, I never had the chance to do much with the old version of the gold sprite, so that probably effects my views on it compared to someone who DID breed and love the old sprite. ANYhow, I have the idea that TJ would be more careful no w ith such extensive updates to a sprite as happened with golds.

Edited by Silverswift

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.