Alts for older dragon types.

[Gruff]

I started DC a long time ago, talking about before the biomes, and in the era of old pinks range. I left, changed email addresses a few dozen times since then, moved. Got married ... I cant even remember the DC name I had back then, but I am sure after all those years the scroll is gone. Saw an egg on a board that I visit off and on and remembered the site. Decided to come back.

 

Anyways.

 

Back in those days, I loved ( and heck, I still do love ) the Stone dragon. The grey colors, the red eyes. It is still by far my favorite original dragon and I in no way want that sprite image to change. With the latest releases, the quality, the design, the pose ... are just outstanding and it is just amazing how talented some people are.

 

I was wondering about an alt form for some of the older dragon sprites, to where they can keep their original look, but also encourage folks to actively breed and collect again.

[Jazeki]

Do you have a geode dragon? They can be bred from stones.

 

Anyway, there was an actual sprite update where many of the older breeds got their sprites updated to accommodate new dimorphic poses in 2010. The gold sprites got updates some years later.

 

There are some suggestions for hybrids of older species in the dragon request section, but other than that I'm not sure how much closer you can get to retroactive alts. There was talk of updating seasonals and silvers, but I'm not sure how far those discussions got.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Jazeki

[Herk]

Ehhm - why are we talking about Silver replacements?

 

I honestly think doing such sprite - "updates" as Alts is a marvellous idea as it would take away a LOT of the drama associated with replacing stuff that is already there.

 

So big thumbs up from me for each old dragon the spriters think could use a variant more in line with newer standards.

Edited July 3, 2015 by herk

[Thuban]

I would rather see alts, than updated sprites. When old sprites get updates, things about them tend to change, and they can lose a trait that made them popular in the first place.

 

For example: Gold replacements

 

The new golds are very very pretty. They are shiny and much better looking, I'll admit. However, in their update they lost the one thing that made me want to bother with collecting them in the first place: the plated chest scutes. Those were an identifying trait for me, and not having those made the replacements seem like cousins, more than the same breed. I still collect them occasionally, however, they aren't as high of a priority, as they no longer fit the build for the lineage project I had been working on (I was breeding only things with plates together at the time).

 

 

Hybrid projects can be a great way to breathe new life into the older sprites. If you havent seen the Weather Balloons (Wind Tracers) for example, quite a few people have expressed interest in collecting both seasonals and balloons as a direct result. If they ever get finished up and actually released, Im confident both breeds would be popular again, at least for a little while.

 

Lineage projects can also do a similar thing. I only collect prize/balloon lines (it took me a little over two years to manage getting at least one second gen from every sprite). Quite a few people started picking up balloons because of how silly my lines are. Balloons arent my favorite sprite on this site, even though they are the ones I am most attached to. I did try really hard to give them unique personalities in their encyclopedia entry, to make up for the general lack of interest in collecting them.

Edited July 4, 2015 by LadyLyzar

[RecycledHeart]

I would rather see alts, than updated sprites. When old sprites get updates, things about them tend to change, and they can lose a trait that made them popular in the first place.

 

For example: Gold replacements

 

The new golds are very very pretty. They are shiny and much better looking, I'll admit. However, in their update they lost the one thing that made me want to bother with collecting them in the first place: the plated chest scutes. Those were an identifying trait for me, and not having those made the replacements seem like cousins, more than the same breed. I still collect them occasionally, however, they aren't as high of a priority, as they no longer fit the build for the lineage project I had been working on (I was breeding only things with plates together at the time).

 

 

Hybrid projects can be a great way to breathe new life into the older sprites. If you havent seen the Weather Balloons (Wind Tracers) for example, quite a few people have expressed interest in collecting both seasonals and balloons as a direct result. If they ever get finished up and actually released, Im confident both breeds would be popular again, at least for a little while.

 

Lineage projects can also do a similar thing. I only collect prize/balloon lines (it took me a little over two years to manage getting at least one second gen from every sprite). Quite a few people started picking up balloons because of how silly my lines are. Balloons arent my favorite sprite on this site, even though they are the ones I am most attached to. I did try really hard to give them unique personalities in their encyclopedia entry, to make up for the general lack of interest in collecting them.

I am aware of the hybrid balloons and I am a very big fan of them.

 

What I meant by updating is just fixing shading and anatomy issues.

 

But you're right, hybrids and lineage breeding do make older sprites more popular.

[Thuban]

What I meant by updating is just fixing shading and anatomy issues.

The problem for me at least, is that in the process of actually fixing those issues, part of the original charm is lost. Sure, they may look nicer, but their shapes, colors and positioning is often changed. There is one breed that was released with a really oddly shaped foot, that doesn't quite work on the dragon... but that weird foot is why I like it so much. I cant see that specific sprite without having a little giggle over that.

 

I know that if I were to ever actually land myself a release here, I would be rather upset if my sprites were "updated" later down the road. I know how hard I have worked over the past 6 years to try to catch up to the skills of our artists. I have a very strong attachment to my sprites, despite the fact that they arent releasable for various reasons. My color work is lacking, but this colorblind wannabe works hard to be able to stand up to the skills of the staff. I often attempt things way beyond my skillset just to see if /they/ can do it better. That and yay learning experience (anyone who was witness to the headache of me learning how to do stone textures will probably have a giggle here)

 

 

I would far rather see alt "cousins" than straight up replacements. Perhaps stones sometimes hatch normal, but sometimes, when they hatch you might get a more mana infused one that is beefier and better plated. Being able to have new updated sprites, alongside the older sprites provides many more options for lineages and such. If people want to make cousins, I wont complain. Replacements, I will every single time

[RecycledHeart]

The problem for me at least, is that in the process of actually fixing those issues, part of the original charm is lost. Sure, they may look nicer, but their shapes, colors and positioning is often changed. There is one breed that was released with a really oddly shaped foot, that doesn't quite work on the dragon... but that weird foot is why I like it so much. I cant see that specific sprite without having a little giggle over that.

 

I know that if I were to ever actually land myself a release here, I would be rather upset if my sprites were "updated" later down the road. I know how hard I have worked over the past 6 years to try to catch up to the skills of our artists. I have a very strong attachment to my sprites, despite the fact that they arent releasable for various reasons. My color work is lacking, but this colorblind wannabe works hard to be able to stand up to the skills of the staff. I often attempt things way beyond my skillset just to see if /they/ can do it better. That and yay learning experience (anyone who was witness to the headache of me learning how to do stone textures will probably have a giggle here)

 

 

I would far rather see alt "cousins" than straight up replacements. Perhaps stones sometimes hatch normal, but sometimes, when they hatch you might get a more mana infused one that is beefier and better plated. Being able to have new updated sprites, alongside the older sprites provides many more options for lineages and such. If people want to make cousins, I wont complain. Replacements, I will every single time

Mmmmm I can see the charm with having mana infused "alts". But I'm not suggesting updates unless the spriter themselves wants to do it. If the spriters say nay, then yay for mana alts~

[Gruff]

I would rather see alts, than updated sprites. When old sprites get updates, things about them tend to change, and they can lose a trait that made them popular in the first place.

 

For example: Gold replacements

 

The new golds are very very pretty. They are shiny and much better looking, I'll admit. However, in their update they lost the one thing that made me want to bother with collecting them in the first place: the plated chest scutes. Those were an identifying trait for me, and not having those made the replacements seem like cousins, more than the same breed. I still collect them occasionally, however, they aren't as high of a priority, as they no longer fit the build for the lineage project I had been working on (I was breeding only things with plates together at the time).

 

 

Hybrid projects can be a great way to breathe new life into the older sprites. If you havent seen the Weather Balloons (Wind Tracers) for example, quite a few people have expressed interest in collecting both seasonals and balloons as a direct result. If they ever get finished up and actually released, Im confident both breeds would be popular again, at least for a little while.

 

Lineage projects can also do a similar thing. I only collect prize/balloon lines (it took me a little over two years to manage getting at least one second gen from every sprite). Quite a few people started picking up balloons because of how silly my lines are. Balloons arent my favorite sprite on this site, even though they are the ones I am most attached to. I did try really hard to give them unique personalities in their encyclopedia entry, to make up for the general lack of interest in collecting them.

This. Thank you for it. The gold chestplate is a good example.

 

While I used the Stone dragon in my original example ( and yes, for the one who asked I know about breeding a geode from Stone dragons ... but that is a new dragon type and not an alt variation ).

 

I would not want the original design of the stone dragon to change, and I would hate for all the ones I have currently on my scroll to just morph into a new sprite. It has a bit of nostalgia for me, for a different time that was in my life.

[Ha-Ki]

I honestly think doing such sprite - "updates" as Alts is a marvellous idea as it would take away a LOT of the drama associated with replacing stuff that is already there.

 

So big thumbs up from me for each old dragon the spriters think could use a variant more in line with newer standards.

THIS. Everything of it. Though I'd like those alts to work like the nebular alts, with both cb and bred ones having a chance to alt.

[RecycledHeart]

I like this idea of mana alts for a rp view. So you just breed an egg from a dragon and it has the chance to alt. While the mother is carrying her egg(s), outside mana might enter her body through respiratory or digestive particles into her bloodstream and affect her eggs.

Edited July 3, 2015 by RecycledHeart

[Thuban]

I like this idea of mana alts for a rp view. So you just breed an egg from a dragon and it has the chance to alt. While the mother is carrying her egg(s), outside mana might enter her body threw respiratory or digestive particles into her bloodstream and affect her eggs.

More that dragons living in areas of high mana concentration could potentially evolve the traits associated with it. Earth mana, for example in most games I've played, tend to cause things to be stronger, and harder to hit (think stoneskin like spells, and say.. the girl in the one dr. who episode slowly turning to stone from breathing volcano dust, humans evolving harder skin and heavier builds).

 

The main thing about that idea though is to avoid full out replacements. Here, have a shiny new updated stone... but the lovely derpfaces you have will still be what they have always been, and you can still get them, if you want to. If not, someone will trade you for it.

[Vhale]

The alt idea would be a nice way of introducing updates without removing the old sprites, I agree

[Nerei]

Do people want actual alts? Or just a version of the same dragon, in the same pose and with the same colors, but with better anatomy and shading?

[AnanoKimi]

Do people want actual alts? Or just a version of the same dragon, in the same pose and with the same colors, but with better anatomy and shading?

I would like this. Same dragon, same pose, same feel just updated shading and anatomy. Like Stones staying in the same pose, smake stony look just updated :3

Edited July 3, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[RecycledHeart]

I would like this. Same dragon, same pose, same feel just updated shading and anatomy. Like Stones staying in the same pose, smake stony look just updated :3

Yeah it wouldn't make sense to have true alts or different colouration like undines.

[AnanoKimi]

Yeah kind of like how artists show how much they've improved by taking an image they drew a few years back and draw that same exact image but with better art style, better shading, better anatomy, but its still the same picture? Yeah like that.

[Thuban]

Do people want actual alts? Or just a version of the same dragon, in the same pose and with the same colors, but with better anatomy and shading?

Some people want all on site dragons (of specific breeds) updated, and used to REPLACE old ones.

 

Some, like me, or cool with sprites getting updates, as long as they don't replace the old ones.

 

Some, dont want them touched at all.

 

 

Im a fan of middle ground and compromise. I'd like to see new updated sprites released alongside the old ones. I want both old and new available side by side as cbs. Im fine with having chances of breeding old or new ones, as long as both are still available.

 

Im NOT ok with my collection being forced into new sprites just because people find them too dated for their tastes. I'm willing to compromise and let new updated sprites have the limelight for awhile, but once ratios even out, I want to have equal chances at old and new versions.

 

 

[LadyLyzar]

This topic is not about the merits of updating older artwork vs. not doing so.

 

It is about the possibility of having updated sprites as alts instead of full replacements.

 

Any posts that do not contribute to the topic will be removed shortly.

 

Done. Please discuss the merits of the original suggestion, and refrain from debating the pros and cons of total sprite replacement.

Edited July 3, 2015 by LadyLyzar

[SullenCat]

I wonder if someone considered the impact of old sprites on the cave blockers issue. If people do not like those sprites, they will not be picked up and no amount of kick-to-the-AP will take care of that. Personally, even when I find low-time eggs or hatchies of sprites that I do not like, I do not pick them up.

[Ashywolf]

If you have a specific idea for X dragon you can always make a specific post for it after this discussion has finished.

 

Not much will happen if we don't consider specific breeds to have alts.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Ashywolf

[Syphoneira]

I wonder if someone considered the impact of old sprites on the cave blockers issue. If people do not like those sprites, they will not be picked up and no amount of kick-to-the-AP will take care of that. Personally, even when I find low-time eggs or hatchies of sprites that I do not like, I do not pick them up.

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed, you're right that people don't pick up sprites they don't like, but for most of us longer-term players, we already have all that we currently need of the older blocker sprites, even if we do like the sprites, and won't waste precious egg-spaces on these when there are others we need and are looking for.

 

If blockers'd get bunged to the AP as untaken eggs every shuffle, to come up as Incuhatchable, they'd be taken up until near/to hatchy-lock, as always happens, eventually making them no longer blockers so that the biomes would move better.

 

Bred Alts do encourage people to pickup parent sprites, but then a lot of fails wind up in the AP, so it has its good side and a bad one, as a lot of the fails are really only good for Freezing.

 

 

Edit: because my smile fell fell off! (found it! )

Edited July 4, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Gruff]

I would like to see it along the lines of the:

 

alt vines

alt blacks

alt nebulas

etc ...

 

An black dragon has a chance to produce an alt black egg and the resulting alt black is still a black dragon, just with a different image. When it breeds, it might produce an alt black, it might produce the normal black.

 

Why not the same can be done with some of the older breeds, so that they might have some life put back into them, be actively bred. To use Stones as the example still ... both the male and the female have the same pose, same everything. The same could be said for whites and greens. ( Though I do see whites used somewhat frequently in checkers ). I don't think anyone actively collects and/or breeds Stones.

 

In no way do I want the Stone dragon sprite to disappear/be altered/no longer available.

[AnanoKimi]

I would like to see it along the lines of the:

 

alt vines

alt blacks

alt nebulas

etc ...

 

An black dragon has a chance to produce an alt black egg and the resulting alt black is still a black dragon, just with a different image. When it breeds, it might produce an alt black, it might produce the normal black.

 

Why not the same can be done with some of the older breeds, so that they might have some life put back into them, be actively bred. To use Stones as the example still ... both the male and the female have the same pose, same everything. The same could be said for whites and greens. ( Though I do see whites used somewhat frequently in checkers ). I don't think anyone actively collects and/or breeds Stones.

 

In no way do I want the Stone dragon sprite to disappear/be altered/no longer available.

Alt nebulas don't have to bre bred though, alt blacks, vines, undines do. If alts are really added to be released along side older sprites instead of simply updating the older sprites to keep the feel but make them looks better in terms of art quality, then I would honestly like to see it more in terms of ridge wings and dorsals. They have a separate egg for each one. I would rather be able to know I am getting a new alt than waiting for the same egg to hatch and having to trade an older alt when I wanted the newer version.

[Thuban]

If alts are really added to be released along side older sprites instead of simply updating the older sprites to keep the feel but make them looks better in terms of art quality, then I would honestly like to see it more in terms of ridge wings and dorsals. They have a separate egg for each one. I would rather be able to know I am getting a new alt than waiting for the same egg to hatch and having to trade an older alt when I wanted the newer version.

Just to make sure I understand all of that, you seem to prefer the idea of replacements, but if they show up as alts instead, you are happy as long as the eggs are different, right? Same descriptions and such are fine, you just want different eggs (which would probably be done in the newer style, which should be enough in most cases I think)

[Windnose]

Alts would make the old common species more desirable, but it would make the old common sprites less desirable, wouldn't it? I can't think of any reason why that would be a problem, but it doesn't sit well with me. I sort of think, "If the old sprites aren't desired, then why keep them?"

 

I guess I just fear that the old sprites would eventually be replaced by new sprites that are equally as desirable as the alts would be. I'm probably getting ahead of myself though.