Holiday Rereleases

[Fuzzbucket]

I agree with Sock and Olympe (and Sir Barton, with whom i ALWAYS agree - how lovely to see you again !) The store is the fairest and simplest option. I'm also fine with a limit of 2 CB ADULTS remaining - this would deal with the problem of people who froze. Unless it's too much MATH

[Sundew]

I still feel my suggestion of rereleasing holidays that are a decade apart from the current year's release simultaneously is currently the simplest suggested solution so far. (eg. xmas 2017 and 2007 drop together.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It will allow the oldest holidays to reenter circulation without totally messing with the site and its current mechanisms.

Not in favor of this for a few reasons:

> it would take a very, very long time for new people to collect all the dragons -- sort of a "why bother" amount of time, IMO

> new users would have absolutely no choice in what dragons they could get

> the number of rereleased eggs available at one time would increase over the years, eventually making it impossible to collect 2 of each year even with all eggslots (so you'd need to wait another 10 years to get a second chance, and eventually even that wouldn't be enough)

> while 2017 would be an advantageous year to start this, chances are it won't be something we see this year, meaning we'd need to wait another 10 years to get the breed most affected by the inactive users problem.

 

Shop seems like the best option. I think a CB rerelease should take up about 6 months of saving up. Yeah, you could only get 2 holidays a year, but you would have the choice of which ones.

[irrelevantindigo]

Not in favor of this for a few reasons:

> it would take a very, very long time for new people to collect all the dragons -- sort of a "why bother" amount of time, IMO

> new users would have absolutely no choice in what dragons they could get

> the number of rereleased eggs available at one time would increase over the years, eventually making it impossible to collect 2 of each year even with all eggslots (so you'd need to wait another 10 years to get a second chance, and eventually even that wouldn't be enough)

> while 2017 would be an advantageous year to start this, chances are it won't be something we see this year, meaning we'd need to wait another 10 years to get the breed most affected by the inactive users problem.

 

Shop seems like the best option. I think a CB rerelease should take up about 6 months of saving up. Yeah, you could only get 2 holidays a year, but you would have the choice of which ones.

I agree with all of these, especially about after... another 10 years it would require more eggs to drop. But honestly if this site it still kicking after 20 years I'm sure this can be revisited.

 

I'm just of the opinion that it's still not about aquiring the CB holidays you want or being a completionist, it's about the oldest ones being in circulation again.

If people think "why bother" that just feels ungrateful to me. Old Holiday CBs don't ever have to be in circulation again.

 

Of course the old eggs don't have to be in drops, we could have some nonsense like the mint cave (without the 1/3 chance) or some other event. I just don't think there needs to be a rush to get CB holidays in circulation, it just needs to happen eventually.

 

While the shop is a nice idea, it seems to miss the point that we only need the oldest CB holidays back in circulation. Shops in games are cool, but I don't think this is the place for it. If we get a shop CB holidays could be added in, but this shouldn't be the shop's purpose.

Edited June 17, 2017 by irrelevantindigo

[Fuzzbucket]

While the shop is a nice idea, it seems to miss the point that we only need the oldest CB holidays back in circulation. Shops in games are cool, but I don't think this is the place for it. If we get a shop CB holidays could be added in, but this shouldn't be the shop's purpose.

All holidays will in the end be "the oldest ones that need to get back in circulation". That's why the shop works best.

[irrelevantindigo]

All holidays will in the end be "the oldest ones that need to get back in circulation". That's why the shop works best.

That's true.

But what if some people just want to hoard a bunch of one breed, or a number of people don't necessarily like hollies/other breeds? It wouldn't help them get back into circulation. It would just make certain breeds' numbers disproportional to others.

If we go with a shop for CB holidays, I feel like it has a lot of potential to not serve its purpose. (Unless the idea is refined and more specific on how exactly it will solve the issue without making new ones.)

Edited June 17, 2017 by irrelevantindigo

[Fuzzbucket]

That's true.

But what if some people just want to hoard a bunch of one breed, or a number of people don't necessarily like hollies/other breeds? It wouldn't help them get back into circulation. It would just make certain breeds' numbers disproportional to others.

If we go with a shop for CB holidays, I feel like it has a lot of potential to not serve its purpose. (Unless the idea is refined and more specific on how exactly it will solve the issue without making new ones.)

If we go for a shop, we can choose exactly what we want.

 

If they drop in the cave, the ones people actually DON'T want will clutter it up for people who want something else. There are already plenty of complaints about not being able to get anything BUT holidays over the season.

 

And if people don't like xyz breed, they won't pick them up in cave either.

Edited June 17, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[Azure]

To touch upon recent discussion: as much as I agree to - and even prefer - options that allow more choice, if this is the only way to get things like this implemented, then I'm in favor of it.

 

In other words, I'm in favor of old holidays being re-released in CB form in one manner or another, with scroll limits remaining in place as they are now. While I'd certainly like a way to pick and choose and not impair other users in my bid to get back up to speed, I'm ALSO in favor of this as a viable, if less ideal, alternative.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Azure

[SheridanCharon]

I'm sorry, I just...The very idea of having to wait 10 years for an egg to drop is just...it honestly leaves me baffled. Olympe, fuzzbucket and ab613 have already stated most of what I would say, but I'm just going to add this.

 

It's pretty much based on the assumption, and I don't like saying this, that DragCave will even BE HERE in a decade. The problem with dealing with ANYTHING to do with long periods of time is lifespan. For one, we don't know if DC will still exist NEXT YEAR, let alone 10 YEARS from now. Servers could be erased, TJ could up and close it down, any number of things could happen to stop DC from running.

For another, it's based on the assumption that the players who are here NOW will be here 10 years down the line. How do you KNOW you will? Simple, you don't KNOW, you ASSUME that nothing will happen in the next decade that will stop you from coming on this site. And you know what they say about assume.

 

Yes, I would LOVE to see the old holidays back in circulation, but NOT in this way. Unless another idea can be stated, the shop is looking like the best option. That said, we don't know when or even IF the shop will be implemented. It could be next month, it could be next year, it could be never. So yes, I think working on alternatives is a very good idea, like perhaps having two year pairings where CB eggs drop (like say, 2016/17 halloween in 2017, then 2017/18 in 2018, etc) (Just throwing that out there off top of my head, not a serious suggestion). But having to wait a full decade for one....

Edited June 17, 2017 by CharonDusk

[olympe]

Shop seems like the best option. I think a CB rerelease should take up about 6 months of saving up. Yeah, you could only get 2 holidays a year, but you would have the choice of which ones.

I think that consensus in the store thread (Trader's Canyon) was a bit different, though. Around 1 year of saving up for 2 holidays for each holiday (V-Day, Halloween and Winter). Maybe it was even a little bit less for Halloweens so people could stock up on them a little.

[irrelevantindigo]

I'm sorry, I just...The very idea of having to wait 10 years for an egg to drop is just...it honestly leaves me baffled. Olympe, fuzzbucket and ab613 have already stated most of what I would say, but I'm just going to add this.

 

It's pretty much based on the assumption, and I don't like saying this, that DragCave will even BE HERE in a decade. The problem with dealing with ANYTHING to do with long periods of time is lifespan. For one, we don't know if DC will still exist NEXT YEAR, let alone 10 YEARS from now. Servers could be erased, TJ could up and close it down, any number of things could happen to stop DC from running.

For another, it's based on the assumption that the players who are here NOW will be here 10 years down the line. How do you KNOW you will? Simple, you don't KNOW, you ASSUME that nothing will happen in the next decade that will stop you from coming on this site. And you know what they say about assume.

 

Yes, I would LOVE to see the old holidays back in circulation, but NOT in this way. Unless another idea can be stated, the shop is looking like the best option. That said, we don't know when or even IF the shop will be implemented. It could be next month, it could be next year, it could be never. So yes, I think working on alternatives is a very good idea, like perhaps having two year pairings where CB eggs drop (like say, 2016/17 halloween in 2017, then 2017/18 in 2018, etc) (Just throwing that out there off top of my head, not a serious suggestion). But having to wait a full decade for one....

Thing is, there already has been another solution suggested before that is similar to mine but works a lot better. I wanted to come up with something slightly different instead of repeating the idea.

So, if we need some sort of solution, why not simply release them as uncommon drops in all biomes during the holiday breeding week three-or-so years after their original release? No complicated point-earning system. No need to invoke rapid change to DC's economy by assigning official values to things. It's a quick, easy solution that fits within the canon of when holidays breed.

The issue with just saying "we want CB holidays included a store" is there is no thought behind the mechanics, effect on the trading market, effect on gameplay or anything else involved. And I currently don't think the trader's canyon is useable as it stands.

 

(I have no idea where you got the idea that anyone would be waiting a decade for an egg to drop. If you missed the recent holiday releases that sucks but isn't the issue as there are plenty of people who are willing to breed you 2nd gens if you ask nicely.

I just want to tackle the issue of old low gen holiday dragons becoming extinct. Was my idea a bit outlandish? Sure. But it was simple. Simple ideas can be touched up and fleshed out. Whereas complex ideas take a lot of reworking to fit in nicely.)

Edited June 17, 2017 by irrelevantindigo

[olympe]

Well, as I stated before, there are numerous issues with the proposed "perfect solution" of making old holidays be uncommon cave drops.

 

Uncommons during the holiday breeding week means this: Lots of people will still work on their lineages - and not take any eggs from the cave. Others will stalk the cave in hope of finding some of those uncommon eggs. However, with the way the cave works, it will most likely be constantly blocked by non-holidays, and even on the 5-minute-shuffles, chances are that there won't be a holiday there, much less the one you're actually looking fore / you're actually able to grab.

 

Overall, this would be a change that's well-meant, but far from good. Because it will cause way more frustration and thus, drama, than anything else. And it will be worst for Halloweens, which everyone can grab until they're egg-locked.

 

I was there when holiday dragons were still hard to get. I spent hours upon hours trying to get a sweetling until I asked someone to help me out - way back when hunting for someone else upon request wasn't seen as damning as it is now. (After all, it was before teleport - and there was literally no other way to safely get one egg from one player to another.) The same was true for marrows, too. Trust me, it wasn't fun to spend hours upon hours on a holiday trying to catch something. Making old holidays into an uncommon cave drop will be just the same.

[irrelevantindigo]

Well, as I stated before, there are numerous issues with the proposed "perfect solution" of making old holidays be uncommon cave drops.

 

Uncommons during the holiday breeding week means this: Lots of people will still work on their lineages - and not take any eggs from the cave. Others will stalk the cave in hope of finding some of those uncommon eggs. However, with the way the cave works, it will most likely be constantly blocked by non-holidays, and even on the 5-minute-shuffles, chances are that there won't be a holiday there, much less the one you're actually looking fore / you're actually able to grab.

 

Overall, this would be a change that's well-meant, but far from good. Because it will cause way more frustration and thus, drama, than anything else. And it will be worst for Halloweens, which everyone can grab until they're egg-locked.

 

I was there when holiday dragons were still hard to get. I spent hours upon hours trying to get a sweetling until I asked someone to help me out - way back when hunting for someone else upon request wasn't seen as damning as it is now. (After all, it was before teleport - and there was literally no other way to safely get one egg from one player to another.) The same was true for marrows, too. Trust me, it wasn't fun to spend hours upon hours on a holiday trying to catch something. Making old holidays into an uncommon cave drop will be just the same.

Ah, I understand.

Tbh I was hoping when Pie said uncommon, they meant like... low tier xenowyrm or nexus or some other "true uncommon" in terms of dropping. Though I dunno if that would solve the problem you brought up or not as it's been a couple years since I hunted holidays.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thing is, there already has been another solution suggested before that is similar to mine but works a lot better. I wanted to come up with something slightly different instead of repeating the idea.

 

The issue with just saying "we want CB holidays included a store" is there is no thought behind the mechanics, effect on the trading market, effect on gameplay or anything else involved. And I currently don't think the trader's canyon is useable as it stands.

 

(I have no idea where you got the idea that anyone would be waiting a decade for an egg to drop. If you missed the recent holiday releases that sucks but isn't the issue as there are plenty of people who are willing to breed you 2nd gens if you ask nicely.

I just want to tackle the issue of old low gen holiday dragons becoming extinct. Was my idea a bit outlandish? Sure. But it was simple. Simple ideas can be touched up and fleshed out. Whereas complex ideas take a lot of reworking to fit in nicely.)

For one thing, I absolutely DO NOT CARE about implications on the trading market.

 

But having them in cave would have the same kind of effect, so... And having CB ones in a store would get 2 gens back in circulation exactly as effectively has having them shwo up in cave, with the added benefit that those who AREN'T hunting holidays can catch other things.

 

Well, as I stated before, there are numerous issues with the proposed "perfect solution" of making old holidays be uncommon cave drops.

 

Uncommons during the holiday breeding week means this: Lots of people will still work on their lineages - and not take any eggs from the cave. Others will stalk the cave in hope of finding some of those uncommon eggs. However, with the way the cave works, it will most likely be constantly blocked by non-holidays, and even on the 5-minute-shuffles, chances are that there won't be a holiday there, much less the one you're actually looking fore / you're actually able to grab.

 

Overall, this would be a change that's well-meant, but far from good. Because it will cause way more frustration and thus, drama, than anything else. And it will be worst for Halloweens, which everyone can grab until they're egg-locked.

 

I was there when holiday dragons were still hard to get. I spent hours upon hours trying to get a sweetling until I asked someone to help me out - way back when hunting for someone else upon request wasn't seen as damning as it is now. (After all, it was before teleport - and there was literally no other way to safely get one egg from one player to another.) The same was true for marrows, too. Trust me, it wasn't fun to spend hours upon hours on a holiday trying to catch something. Making old holidays into an uncommon cave drop will be just the same.

Oh god, I forgot about that marrows thing. YES indeed. And I only got one CB sweetling for the same kind of reason that you had trouble. They were almost uncatchable.

Edited June 17, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[olympe]

Ah, I understand.

Tbh I was hoping when Pie said uncommon, they meant like... low tier xenowyrm or nexus or some other "true uncommon" in terms of dropping. Though I dunno if that would solve the problem you brought up or not as it's been a couple years since I hunted holidays.

That still won't help much. How many "low tier xenowyrms" do you see these days? Now consider that pretty much everyone and their great aunt will be trying for those, and those alone, and there's only a very limited amount to get them. Not to mention that they probably won't drop that well, considering that the ratios will be adjusting thanks to the bred ones.

 

It'll be hell on Earth in the cave.

Edited June 17, 2017 by olympe

[VixenDra]

The store is the fairest and simplest option. I'm also fine with a limit of 2 CB ADULTS remaining - this would deal with the problem of people who froze.

Would work for me... And for everyone who ever froze a CB holiday or who always wished to have a set of frozens AND adults (2 each, or 1s1 and 1 or 2 S2s) as CBs.

 

Still wouldn't solve the problem e.g. the Aegis made to so many who complained when they were released - that they can't even have 2 CBs per sprite becasue of the 2 variants of the breed and such a riddiculously low limit. Best would be if no more odd holidays like this were made again but nobody would grant us that... unless TJ decided to communicate with us and told us otherwise...

 

Also many wished for the limits to be raised so people could at least be able to make a checker base (because you can't trust other players that they won't kill the dragon in the base of the lineage you were working for for years just to bring it to a low gen... not to mention that you can't trust they will never change the variant of the Aegis that is in the base of that lineage).

Not that I'd need this, but after all, DC is kinda all about catching, breeding and lineages... That's why anyone even wants some kind of CB holidays rereleases in the first place - lineage building... And to tell sb 'you rely on trades then' you're imposing some playstyle on them which they maybe didn't want to have anything to do with, also the game itself doesn't provide a trading environment and still many players don't want to engage in additional sites to maintains some trading and you also can't blame them, they wanted to play a game, not to use the forum.

 

 

I'm still concerned about different playstyles, goals and needs... if holidays could be available via a shop, why should any of them be ever limited then? After all, anyone I heard who wants these riddiculusly low limits so badly is afraid of the competition on those busiest days (let's be honest here), and with the shop availability it would be just you and your playing the game at your own pase etc., no matter the other players and their better connections or skills, it would be equal chances for everyone. The CB limit on shop-originated CB holidays would simply serve no real purpose...

 

 

 

as for concerns about the value, I don't thing these should be considered in this case, not that anything would change with more CB holidays except for Hollies which now are nearly controling the market for the very reason the release suggestions are popping up - lack of CBs in the breeding pool...

[irrelevantindigo]

That still won't help much. How many "low tier xenowyrms" do you see these days? Now consider that pretty much everyone and their great aunt will be trying for those, and those alone, and there's only a very limited amount to get them. Not to mention that they probably won't drop that well, considering that the ratios will be adjusting thanks to the bred ones.

 

It'll be hell on Earth in the cave.

I see. -nods-

 

If that's the case I personally would like to see the shop idea fleshed out, simplified as much as possible, and made into a completely feasible option. :0

I don't think it'll happen as an abstract concept or as it currently stands as traders canyon.

[olympe]

Well, in that case, I think you should raise your points against what has been hashed out in the Trader's Canyon thread in there, discussing it here would be derailing the thread.

 

Also: I already suggested on the last page that, maybe, we could get a holiday raffle (similar to the current monthly raffles) to get lots of old holidays into circulation.

 

Or, as Sock suggested, let's have an event with storyline that allows us to take a single old CB holiday egg "home".

 

Personally, I prefer Sock's suggstion, but the raffle suggestion would also work with the features we already have on the site. *shrugs*