Holiday Rereleases

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Oh boy MM here we go again.

 

Games =/= life.

Making things available for hunting =/= giving them out on a silver platter no work needed.

 

I have CBs of every holiday save Holly (which I have a 2g and 3g of) and I support this. People should aim to make things fun and as equally obtainable as possible--even if hard work is required to get some of those things. Life should not be about leaving others in misery because "tough stuff life isn't fair" and games should be even less so.

 

I realize you stand firm on your opinion and so do I, but for others out there who are undecided, I beg you to err on the side of generosity and increased collecting opportunity.

Edited June 13, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Tehya Faye]

Making things available to everyone doesn't render it impossible to have something special. Another game I play is almost completely self-contained with very few retired items or qualities, but people still find ways to set themselves apart from the majority and feel that same sense of accomplishment. There will always be ways to do something unique or to have something special.

[shadowfighter]

Cruel?  I call that life. 

 

I breed all the dragons I have, including 2nd gen Golds and holidays, and give them away or toss them in the AP.  I don't trade or ask for anything in return.  Ever. Not even once.  Well, that's a lie...maybe once or twice, years ago...  Oh, and thanks to my lightening fast internet,  I've also caught many eggs during releases and gave them to people with slow connections who couldn't get any.  Scrooge.  That's funny. 

 

I'm not worried about 'equality' on an internet game.  It's not something I lose any sleep over.  Besides, where  does it say you're going to be guaranteed equality around here? 

 

The 'I want it so you better find a way to give it to me'  mentality is unneeded in ANY environment. 

 

I missed out on some dragons, too, because I wasn't here.  That's just how it goes.  I wouldn't change a thing, even if it meant I could have those missing CBs.

You make a good point, and I apologize for the scrooge comment. I was unaware. But the fact remains: People want to be able to have these holidays again, and adding in the CBs would be great. I don't think this is so much an 'I want it so you must give it to me' mentality, so much as an 'I would like to continue this lineage or make this lineage, but I can't because I wasn't here when this dragon was released. ' This is the thing that keeps me from continuing so many gorgeous lineages. If other newer players like me had the chance to continue or make these lineages, it would increase the amount of: Second gens, mates, and all around lineages with those dragons. On the 'Cruel? I call that life. " point. DC isn't life, and lots of people come here to escape life, including myself. We don't want real life to have an impact on the game. DC is an escape, not real life, giving every player the chance to have cool dragons and make neat lineages is a great thing.

Edited June 13, 2015 by shadowfighter

[MedievalMystic]

I realize you stand firm on your opinion and so do I, but for others out there who are undecided, I beg you to err on the side of generosity and increased collecting opportunity.

 

If it happens, ADP, it happens and that's that. I'll simply accept it. I won't like it, but I'll accept what I can't change if this idea is something TJ wants to implement and makes it happen.

 

You make a good point, and I apologize for the scrooge comment.

 

It's fine, no biggie. Thank you.

 

We don't want real life to have an impact on the game.

 

Understood. I mean, really, I was just stating my view on this. If this goes down and becomes reality, so be it. I'm not going to be pissed off at anyone because of it just because it's not my thing, or the way I'd like it to be. This game is what TJ makes it, this is his world and he is the God of it. Not a damn thing to be done about his decisions, whether I personally like them or not. lol

Edited June 13, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Ribombee]

I'm not going to state my opinion on the actual matter here, but having experienced the "I want it because I want it" attitude that comes with people getting what they want in things like games and then transferring it to real life, I honestly think that people need MORE restriction, not less. This internet culture of "Gimme gimme gimme" really does transfer into real life, and I see it constantly in my students. They expect me to give them an A just for existing, never mind that they never do the work, don't come to office hours or even ask questions until the day before an exam, pay attention, or heck, even come to class.

 

I see a lot of the same attitude in this and in other games, and while I haven't read much of the actual discussion, so I won't really contribute there. I just wanted to state my general opinion on the "I want" attitude.

 

For the record, I own no CB holidays prior to solstice. I do own a CB prize as of this past raffle, but my opinion hasn't changed since then, and I haven't traded any prizes for holidays. All holidays I own I got via regular trades or in the AP.

 

Also, for those having trouble, I wanted to give a helpful tip. Save for hollies (which I agree are very difficult to get and may be where the majority of this topic is going?), I've never had any issue with continuing lineages by trading for what I needed simply by being active in the community, checking the holiday lineage thread around each holiday, and finding people ahead of time who are willing to breed what I need. A lot of people offer free breedings from their CBs with a mate of your choice. It's simply a matter of a little work to find people with the CBs or people who want to do lineage swaps. Taking screenshots of your lineage and posting them in the holiday thread really helps, as it stands out and lets people see them easily without having to wade through posts and posts of just text.

[Jazeki]

I think I'd still like to see HMs come back before we have to resort to this, but I'd be okay if it happened.

 

I don't think a Halloween re-release needs a cap because the scroll limits in effect and limited dropping time along with the number of Halloweens available already limits them enough.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Jazeki

[SullenCat]

IMO this suggestion would also bring some benefits to the veterans that already have those CB Holidays. How many times do you read on a trade "No Holiday mates"? People with less years of DC, can't continue the lineage and, in consequence, don't want offers of that type.

[Tehya Faye]

It also allows people more control of the lineages they want to work on. You don't decide what other people name their dragons, and you don't influence whether or not a dragon in a lineage you carefully pieced together gets killed. Having your own CBs puts at least a little bit of control into your hands. You wouldn't be at risk of having your lineage set back to square 1. The risk is small, but I'm sure it happens every now and then.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[zaverxi]

I am 100% in favor of this, and not just because I missed hollies and wrapping wings (the former due to not being a member yet, the latter due to not having internet during the two weeks surrounding Christmas)

 

I think it's a pity that some dragons are released once over a span of 1 day to a week and then go extinct in the wild. It just doesn't make sense in the 'world' TJ is trying hard to build for us. Did humans really hunt down and steal every single Christmas dragon egg, and somehow manage to kill off all adult wild dragons or at least sterilize them so that no new CBs were available? Nah, that's stupid.

 

Should people who have been around the longest be the only ones allowed to have nice things, barring raffle prizes? Absolutely not. If you discourage new people from playing dragcave, eventually every single old player is going to leave, and then dragcave will be abandoned with no new people playing.

 

I think giving new people the chance to obtain old holidays is a great idea... within reason. I don't think they should be made immediately available, I like the 'delay a few years' thing.

 

Let's say... 3 years after a dragon is released, bring them out again.

 

How about a cycle, to keep things fresh?

 

This year, rerelease hollies. Or better yet, wait until the 10th year of Dragcave's birthday, and start there. That's next year, after all. Year after that, Vamps and Yulebucks. Year after that, Valentine '09s, Pumpkins, and Snow Angels, and so on and so forth. Keeping it at a cycle like that would encourage people who missed these holidays to keep playing year after year, in the hopes for getting the ones they didn't have. And if you're releasing only those during the different holidays, and have them be a rare drop among the new release, it'd be a challenge for everyone.

 

And every 10 years, repeat the cycle! So

 

10th anniversary (2016) Hollies for Christmas

11th (2017), Vamps and Yulebucks

12th (2018), Valentine '09s, Pumpkins and Snow Angels

13th (2019), Sweetlings, Black Marrows, and Ribbon Dancers

14th (2020), Rosebuds, Shadow Walkers, and Winter Magi

15th (2021), Heartseekers, Cavern Lurkers, and Wrapping Wings

16th (2022), Arsanis, Graves, and Solstices

17th (2023), Radiant Angels, Desipis, and Mistletoes

18th (2024), Heartstealers, 2015 Halloweens, and 2015 Holidays

19th (2025), 2016 Valentines, 2016 Halloweens, 2016 Holidays

20th (2026), Hollies again for Christmas.

 

This might even fix the Halloween issue. People would have to divide their wants between getting as many new releases as they can, and getting more CBs of whatever else is released. I mean there's still going to be people who get 50 of each, but from what I've seen they don't get them for free, they have to trade things for them all so they're still having to work at it.

 

But yeah, 2 CB limit for new releases and rereleases, this way that'd be 4 new dragons on peoples' scrolls per Valentines/Christmas, which isn't all that much different from now. And even brand spanking new people can get two of each for Valentines and Christmas.

 

AND, with the timing of it all, if you start it off with Hollies, all the new people that join the cave will have about 10 months or so to get their scroll counts up enough to get a lot of dragons during Halloween with bronze, silver, or maybe even gold trophies.

Edited June 13, 2015 by zaverxi

[shadowfighter]

I am 100% in favor of this, and not just because I missed hollies and wrapping wings (the former due to not being a member yet, the latter due to not having internet during the two weeks surrounding Christmas)

 

I think it's a pity that some dragons are released once over a span of 1 day to a week and then go extinct in the wild. It just doesn't make sense in the 'world' TJ is trying hard to build for us. Did humans really hunt down and steal every single Christmas dragon egg, and somehow manage to kill off all adult wild dragons or at least sterilize them so that no new CBs were available? Nah, that's stupid.

 

Should people who have been around the longest be the only ones allowed to have nice things, barring raffle prizes? Absolutely not. If you discourage new people from playing dragcave, eventually every single old player is going to leave, and then dragcave will be abandoned with no new people playing.

 

I think giving new people the chance to obtain old holidays is a great idea... within reason. I don't think they should be made immediately available, I like the 'delay a few years' thing.

 

Let's say... 3 years after a dragon is released, bring them out again.

 

How about a cycle, to keep things fresh?

 

This year, rerelease hollies. Or better yet, wait until the 10th year of Dragcave's birthday, and start there. That's next year, after all. Year after that, Vamps and Yulebucks. Year after that, Valentine '09s, Pumpkins, and Snow Angels, and so on and so forth. Keeping it at a cycle like that would encourage people who missed these holidays to keep playing year after year, in the hopes for getting the ones they didn't have. And if you're releasing only those during the different holidays, and have them be a rare drop among the new release, it'd be a challenge for everyone.

 

And every 10 years, repeat the cycle! So

 

10th anniversary (2016) Hollies for Christmas

11th (2017), Vamps and Yulebucks

12th (2018), Valentine '09s, Pumpkins and Snow Angels

13th (2019), Sweetlings, Black Marrows, and Ribbon Dancers

14th (2020), Rosebuds, Shadow Walkers, and Winter Magi

15th (2021), Heartseekers, Cavern Lurkers, and Wrapping Wings

16th (2022), Arsanis, Graves, and Solstices

17th (2023), Radiant Angels, Desipis, and Mistletoes

18th (2024), Heartstealers, 2015 Halloweens, and 2015 Holidays

19th (2025), 2016 Valentines, 2016 Halloweens, 2016 Holidays

20th (2026), Hollies again for Christmas.

 

This might even fix the Halloween issue. People would have to divide their wants between getting as many new releases as they can, and getting more CBs of whatever else is released. I mean there's still going to be people who get 50 of each, but from what I've seen they don't get them for free, they have to trade things for them all so they're still having to work at it.

 

But yeah, 2 CB limit for new releases and rereleases, this way that'd be 4 new dragons on peoples' scrolls per Valentines/Christmas, which isn't all that much different from now. And even brand spanking new people can get two of each for Valentines and Christmas.

 

AND, with the timing of it all, if you start it off with Hollies, all the new people that join the cave will have about 10 months or so to get their scroll counts up enough to get a lot of dragons during Halloween with bronze, silver, or maybe even gold trophies.

Yes. This. 100% this. It would be very helpful and just plain AWESOME. Love this idea +12000000000000

[Nectaris]

Personally, I only support this if there are no limits on Halloweens. I personally find it rather arbitrary and confusing. Like, would it be X number of them all total, or X number of each breed? It seems like it would cause more trouble than it is worth.

 

Yeah, some people might find ways to load up on the old ones(note that a LOT of these are trades anyways, which means that someone was willing to trade them to someone else), but that also means that they will not be grabbing as many new ones. Plus, if the trend of generosity continues, I suspect there will be plenty willing to catch and give them to others to those who can't catch them themselves.

 

Personally, I would even support a lifting or increasing the limit on Christmas and Valentines. The new ones are so ridiculously easy to catch that they have become boring. It isn't a big thing though, I wouldn't be upset if this didn't change.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Nectaris

[zaverxi]

And each successive year, I suppose add in the new ones as well, hm. So the 20th anniversary, Hollies plus the 2017 holidays.

 

30th anniversary, Hollies, 2017, 2027.

 

Assuming Dragcave is around for that long.

 

But I definitely agree with SullenCat up above. If more people have CB holidays, there'd be less stigma against using them as mates. The main issue people have with holiday mates is simply that they don't have the ability to continue them. If people were able to get their hands on previous holidays, it might just increase the value of such lines.

 

So yes, it'd be a benefit to the older crowd as well.

 

I'm not so spiteful that I'd rather deny new people pretties just because they weren't old enough to join dragcave when I did. Heck, I didn't join straight away either. My scroll ID is 98153, that means there were 98,152 scrolls made before mine. How many are still in use, who knows. But I can still brag and say I was one of the first 100,000 dragcave members. Does that mean anything at all? Nope. Person with scroll ID of 687637634676 could have won a gold shimmer prize this past holiday raffle, with not a single holiday aside from Mistletoe.

 

We're all people collecting pixel images of imaginary creatures and fussing over what people can and can't have with these.

[Pixxelation]

I am 100% in favor of this, and not just because I missed hollies and wrapping wings (the former due to not being a member yet, the latter due to not having internet during the two weeks surrounding Christmas)

 

I think it's a pity that some dragons are released once over a span of 1 day to a week and then go extinct in the wild. It just doesn't make sense in the 'world' TJ is trying hard to build for us. Did humans really hunt down and steal every single Christmas dragon egg, and somehow manage to kill off all adult wild dragons or at least sterilize them so that no new CBs were available? Nah, that's stupid.

 

Should people who have been around the longest be the only ones allowed to have nice things, barring raffle prizes? Absolutely not. If you discourage new people from playing dragcave, eventually every single old player is going to leave, and then dragcave will be abandoned with no new people playing.

 

I think giving new people the chance to obtain old holidays is a great idea... within reason. I don't think they should be made immediately available, I like the 'delay a few years' thing.

 

Let's say... 3 years after a dragon is released, bring them out again.

 

How about a cycle, to keep things fresh?

 

This year, rerelease hollies. Or better yet, wait until the 10th year of Dragcave's birthday, and start there. That's next year, after all. Year after that, Vamps and Yulebucks. Year after that, Valentine '09s, Pumpkins, and Snow Angels, and so on and so forth. Keeping it at a cycle like that would encourage people who missed these holidays to keep playing year after year, in the hopes for getting the ones they didn't have. And if you're releasing only those during the different holidays, and have them be a rare drop among the new release, it'd be a challenge for everyone.

 

And every 10 years, repeat the cycle! So

 

10th anniversary (2016) Hollies for Christmas

11th (2017), Vamps and Yulebucks

12th (2018), Valentine '09s, Pumpkins and Snow Angels

13th (2019), Sweetlings, Black Marrows, and Ribbon Dancers

14th (2020), Rosebuds, Shadow Walkers, and Winter Magi

15th (2021), Heartseekers, Cavern Lurkers, and Wrapping Wings

16th (2022), Arsanis, Graves, and Solstices

17th (2023), Radiant Angels, Desipis, and Mistletoes

18th (2024), Heartstealers, 2015 Halloweens, and 2015 Holidays

19th (2025), 2016 Valentines, 2016 Halloweens, 2016 Holidays

20th (2026), Hollies again for Christmas.

 

This might even fix the Halloween issue. People would have to divide their wants between getting as many new releases as they can, and getting more CBs of whatever else is released. I mean there's still going to be people who get 50 of each, but from what I've seen they don't get them for free, they have to trade things for them all so they're still having to work at it.

 

But yeah, 2 CB limit for new releases and rereleases, this way that'd be 4 new dragons on peoples' scrolls per Valentines/Christmas, which isn't all that much different from now. And even brand spanking new people can get two of each for Valentines and Christmas.

 

AND, with the timing of it all, if you start it off with Hollies, all the new people that join the cave will have about 10 months or so to get their scroll counts up enough to get a lot of dragons during Halloween with bronze, silver, or maybe even gold trophies.

I'm really against this :x Overcomplicates things far too much, and having them dropping during the actual drop will lead to misclicks + 5-hour waits, unhappy users, and just be something to avoid, IMO. Plus, it's kind of a moot point if you can only grab them once every decade. Especially far down the line, should the site still be afloat then.

 

Also, I think that any re-released CBs should not be alted for the spriters. That would be too much to ask of TJ.

Edited June 13, 2015 by PieMaster

[angelicdragonpuppy]

What if instead of a ten year cycle, it was a five year cycle (ex: next year Vampires AND Graves would drop during Halloween, year after would be Pumpkins + Desipises, etc etc), and they dropped during holiday breeding week instead of when the new breed was dropping? Still forces you to choose between CBs and continuing / creating / collecting pretty lines, so there'd still be incentive to choose wisely.

 

I'm not 100% committed either way, I see perks to the yearly cycles (will still give people a strong incentive to be there for the original release, which is good for the cave, for one) but I see perks to the original as well.

 

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Why limit them at all? With the 2 per scroll limit in place for Winter and V'day, and being limited by the number of egg slots, no one is going to want every Winter/V'day dragon. They are only going to be hunting for the ones they don't have already.

 

Waiting on a particular year would be an unnecessary frustration, especially if the type you need isn't dropping this year. Waiting from one holiday to the next is hard enough already.. having to wait multiple years just to get a particular dragon would be even more frustrating.

 

The only cb holiday I'm missing is Holly, and if for some reason I missed out the year the Hollys dropped and having to wait another 10 yrs before having the same chance again............well, I seriously doubt I'd keep playing, it would just be too darn frustrating.

[Pixxelation]

Still against that, ADP. There's no reason to complicate it, IMO. Just add each holiday to the mix three years after its release, and keep them uncommon-to-rare. I don't think limiting when they're available makes sense, especially because it'd be relatively difficult to catch 'em, anyway.

[AGYK]

I'd support rereleasing CB holidays, sure. But I'd only support that with a scroll limit - look what happens to the AP during the holidays. Lineaged eggs, even badly-lineaged eggs, don't last long before they're snapped up. CBs would fly out of the cave and leave nothing left, I suspect, and then there would be masses and masses of threads complaining.

 

I think 2 CBs for Christmas/Valentines is pretty reasonable. Maybe leave it as 2 CB eggs as somebody else suggested - that way people can grab 2 extra CBs every year, or up to 6 CBs during the given breeding week if they feel like focusing on any particular breed. For Halloween... it's always been a holiday of grab-what-you-can. So although I feel kinda icky about it, I think it's within the spirit of the holiday to say no limit.

 

Making things available to everyone doesn't render it impossible to have something special. Another game I play is almost completely self-contained with very few retired items or qualities, but people still find ways to set themselves apart from the majority and feel that same sense of accomplishment. There will always be ways to do something unique or to have something special.

This. There will always be special lineages, whether "special" means descended from spriter's alt/low-gen Thuweds or Dorkfaces or "special" means "I spent a year building an umpteenth gen checker all by myself, look how pretty it is". And dragons tend to have stories, too. For myself, there's the 3rd-gen Thuwed pink someone gave me as a thank-you gift after I snagged its sibling in the AP and returned it (it had been lost in trade, a casualty of the days before teleport) - my lowest gen and prettiest Thuwed for a very long time. There's my first ND. My first (and only) tinsel ND. And of course so many many more. So many lucky trades, so many gifts from wonderful people. It doesn't take extreme trade value or rarity for something to be special.

[Vhale]

I'm a little leery of the scroll limit due to how people had their CBs booted off their scrolls after trading came out. Seems like it's a complicated thing to code. Other than that, I think it's fine because if people prioritize CBs they give up other egg slots, which are kinda a big deal as you can't get them but once a year. Gives people a choice anyway.

 

Granted, given that sacrifice I wouldn't mind the limit being lifted either. If it was possible to make them untradeable that might keep farming at bay. Otherwise, I understand the concern there.

[Jazeki]

Having people wait 5-10 years just to get a CB sprite seems a bit...ridiculous? I've been playing an extraordinary amount of time, so if this happens, the most I'd have to wait is three years to get a CB Val' '09. But I'll be honest and say that if I were a new player, I'd quickly lose interest before committing to waiting X amount of years to get a chance at catching whatever holiday it was I was missing.

 

I much prefer the idea of holiday breeds cycling in three years after their release date that having to wait a certain amount of years for that one holiday to cycle back in if I happen to miss a release.

[Ribombee]

Should people who have been around the longest be the only ones allowed to have nice things, barring raffle prizes? Absolutely not. If you discourage new people from playing dragcave, eventually every single old player is going to leave, and then dragcave will be abandoned with no new people playing.

While you made some good points (especially about the reality of them disappearing), I do find flaw with this argument. The game already keeps getting and retaining new players. I'm one of them. I haven't been around since anywhere near the beginning, and I'm not being driven away by the lack of CB hollies on my scroll. Will we lose some new players? Yes. Will we lose them for some other reason if we change holiday releases? Yes. Will we lose some older players if we make changes? Yes. Games will lose players regardless of whether changes are made of not. DC is very unlikely to be abandoned with no new people simply because new players can't get CBs of the previous holidays, and it's unlikely every old player will leave, either. I see new forum accounts popping up all the time. Some stay and become part of the community, while I never hear from others again. That's the standard nature of any group of people, especially online. As long as the new players who stay balance out the players who leave, it's all good. TJ is the only one who could likely give real statistics, but I personally haven't seen any drop in activity over the couple of years I've been here.

 

I have no strong opinion either way on the matter itself, but I do want to voice my opinion on WHY people are debating one way or another because I feel that it's a very divisive matter which should be debated strongly so that whatever happens does happen for a solid and convincing reason.

 

Greedy me says, "I want CBs!" Logical me wonders how many older members it's going to piss off because they traded something really valuable for a 2G holly, only to have their holly now seriously devalued due to a rerelease. Lazy me says, "Ahaha! Why am I not just sleeping right now?"

 

I will say that, should this happen, I would be very disappointed if getting them was super easy. That just feeds into the whole "if I can't get what I want NOW without any effort on my part, I'll whine and scream until I do" culture that I so hate.

Edited June 13, 2015 by harlequinraven

[Lurhstaap]

I REALLY disagree with any sort of year cycle. It sounds nice and organized but in reality it's just not realistic.

[Naruhina_94]

The point is that this kind of suggestions for rerelase old holiday dragons aren't meant only for new players, but for old ones, too.

I've been playing DC from may 2010 and I don't consider myself a new player... still no matter how many efforts I put on it I won't be able to get a CB marrow (which I miss because I spent halloween in mountain, without internet).

If you don't want to do this for new players (which I do) at least do it for the old ones that understand their value and want to have a chance, too.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[Tehya Faye]

Oh, definitely. I'd want it to be a decent challenge. Give me a chance to earn CB holidays and I'll be a happy camper.

[TJ09]

I think if this were to happen, it'd be at the cost of holiday multiclutches (at least, they'd be rarer or smaller on average). Right now, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of most event breeds during their season--perhaps the opposite, even; if more were to be made available as CBs, bred egg counts would have to drop correspondingly.

[Lurhstaap]

To tell the truth, I am more than happy to accept that trade-off. I know some people would even be glad to see that because they've never liked multi-clutching on their holidays anyway.