Regular Non-Dragon Egg Group Breed Releases

[cyradis4]

Not only do I want more - the more we have the less drama about WANT LINEAGE waaah, but prepare to hit me - I'd rather like a few holiday drakes. Why not? No one shrieks about the pumpkins - is that only cos they are so old and people used to grouch less?

I think it is because most of the Pygmies go with Pumpkins (and each other), which are pretty mono-chrome, so there are multiple options with each breed. With 2 heads and drakes... Some of the breeds have effectively no "nice" lineage options (Glaucus, I'm looking at you!), and even the best only have 2 or 3, whereas if they bred with the normal dragons, then they'd have a ton of options.

 

I also think the visual difference in size helps people think, "These are different". There is a clear difference that everyone can see right off the bat with Pygmies (they are tiny!), eggs included. For the 2-heads, there's the 2nd head but its a less noticeable difference than the Pygmies.

 

As for the Drakes! Artists can tell me till the cows come home that there's a "big difference".... But I just do not see it. If you lined up drakes vs reg dragons, no one who didn't know the differences would be able to see the difference, because all of the "features" of the Drake are present in dragons. But with 2 heads and pygmies, they'd come up with it right away (2 heads, size).

 

So yea, I think the reason people grouse at Drakes the most is that there aren't any major features that are totally unique to them. For that matter, Wyverns and Amphipteres are MUCH easier to spot than the Drakes, and they breed just fine with normal dragons!

 

Myself? I don't and never have liked the logical disconnect where Drakes were concerned and have always felt they should be part of the Dragon group, but that is a discussion for another time.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I wouldn't mind a Holiday 2-head or a Holiday Drake.. but unless it was a Halloween release, we'd only be able to collect 2 of them each. So if we did get a 2-head or Drake Holiday dragon, I would hope it would be a Halloween release so we could collect bunches of them. Personally, I'd only collect a m/f pair of any Drake.. but if it was a 2-head, I'd do everything I could think of to collect as many as possible.

[Fuzzbucket]

I wouldn't mind a Holiday 2-head or a Holiday Drake.. but unless it was a Halloween release, we'd only be able to collect 2 of them each. So if we did get a 2-head or Drake Holiday dragon, I would hope it would be a Halloween release so we could collect bunches of them. Personally, I'd only collect a m/f pair of any Drake.. but if it was a 2-head, I'd do everything I could think of to collect as many as possible.

Good point Cinn. The 2 cb limit could be a deal-breaker! What's wrong with the glaucus drakes though?

[FiveSix]

What's wrong with the glaucus drakes though?

I think the 'problem' with Glaucuses is that most of the other drakes are quite earthy-coloured with subtle or intricate patterning, whereas Glaucuses are bold, blue and white with lots of solid boundaries in their pattern. They're OK with Day Glories but they could use some simple-but-bright coloured potential mates.

[cyradis4]

Good point Cinn. The 2 cb limit could be a deal-breaker! What's wrong with the glaucus drakes though?

The problem with Glaucus isn't with the Glaucus... Its with the potential mates!

 

There isn't anything they go with, in the "Drake" Category, but had they been in the Dragon category.... They'd have a ton of nice potential mates.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

I shall take that under advisement and create something amazing with them when I am back on free-for-all internet!

[Cinnamin Draconna]

There's nothing wrong with the Glaucus Drakes... I just have a problem with Drakes in general. Mostly because they are restricted breeders and each one is so different, they really don't go well with each other to start with. If they were breedable with standard dragons, I'd probably go crazy collecting Greater Spotted drakes to breed with Plated Colossuses.

 

But I also have a problem because DC drakes don't match the description of drakes that i'm used to. I've been a gamer most of my life, and I've always thought drakes were WINGLESS dragons. What are/were commonly called Land Dragons, being flightless, usually quite large and somewhat stupid. Basically, DC canon isn't my definition of Drakes... or Wyverns for that matter, but that's another topic.

[Odeen]

This isn't really the thread to start arguing the definitions of words like "drake". Smaug is a fire drake and yet he's intelligent and flighted. In Warcraft, a drake is simply a young and immature dragon. In Ultima Online's realm of Britannia, a drake is simply a smaller, weaker dragon whereas a wyrm is an ancient and frighteningly powerful spellcasting dragon. That's the thing about fantasy creatures - the definitions are not fixed from one medium to the next.

 

In DC, drakes are defined a specific way. That's how it is.

[RecycledHeart]

I thought smaug was a wyvren........

 

Yeah you're right Mari, I'm sorry.

 

Honestly I really don't care that much about drakes and two headed but I adore pygmies and dinos.

So if we get just one release of some pygmy dinos that would be wicked~

Edited June 5, 2015 by RecycledHeart

[Marrionetta]

Though I am not a moderator, I would request that discussion is kept on-topic, please; I hope for this thread to give insight on the desires of our user base in regard to non-dragon egg groups.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Marrionetta

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Exactly my point. DC drakes don't fit MY description, therefore I don't particularly like them. That's all I'm saying.. it's my personal opinion.. and for me, having more drakes added to the Cave won't do anything for ME.

 

YOUR mileage may vary. I'm not opposing YOUR opinion, I"m just stating mine. And in MY opinion, I want more 2-headed dragons.. which IS a non-standard type.. which IS what this thread is about.

[Marrionetta]

Exactly my point. DC drakes don't fit MY description, therefore I don't particularly like them. That's all I'm saying.. it's my personal opinion.. and for me, having more drakes added to the Cave won't do anything for ME.

 

YOUR mileage may vary. I'm not opposing YOUR opinion, I"m just stating mine. And in MY opinion, I want more 2-headed dragons.. which IS a non-standard type.. which IS what this thread is about.

Please take the semantic debate elsewhere, Cin.

 

I appreciate the input on the NDEGs, though. Thank you.

[Tigerkralle]

Just in general we need more colours for our beloved Pygmies, Drakes and Two-Headeds.

 

Especially for the Two-Headed and Drakes we need more matching mates. That the beautiful Glaucus Drakes are a "problem" was mentioned but what about the original Two-Headed? For me i have the same problem to find a mate for them as for finding a mate for a Glaucus Drake besides a pureblooded lineage.

 

Just a wish for the non-standard Dragons:

A monochrom Event (be it a Valentine, Halloween or Holiday) Drake would be awesome.

A monochrom Event (be it a Valentine, Halloween or Holiday) Two-Headed would be awesome.

And of course another (be it a Valentine or Holiday) Pygmy would be awesome.

 

ETA: Typos...

Edited June 5, 2015 by Tigerkralle

[dragongrrl]

The non-standard dragons should be brought up to nine of each type, one for each year of the Cave, with at least one breed from each group added for every year in the future.

 

This means adding, before DC's next birthday:

 

Three breeds of the two-headed dragons. I am counting the Lindwurms as two breeds, since there are separate eggs for each of the breeds. A yellow-gold breed, an orange or a brown breed and a vibrant green would help fill in the colors missing in their spectrum.

 

Four breeds of the drakes, since I consider the Glories as one breed. A red breed to match with the Ochredrakes would be top of my list. I still find the Ochredrakes to be one of the finest looking dragons in the Cave, and while the Howlers and Greater Spotteds will both be good pairings, a drake with the colors of the Royal Crimson would be a beautiful match for them. An orange breed and a purple breed are both needed, then either a green, blue or gray, something that would blend the visual gap between the shiny Glaucus Drake and the rest of the earthier Drakes.

 

Two breeds of the pygmy dragons, unless you include the Halloween Pumpkins, in which case, they only need one . A good clear yellow without any orange shades and a violet or red-violet would help round out their spectrum.

 

I would not want to see any more of the non-standard dragons added as holidays in the future. Pumpkins are an anomaly. Leave the holidays to the standard-breds.

Edited June 6, 2015 by dragongrrl

[Vhale]

The NS dragons should be brought up to nine of each type, one for each year of the Cave.

That's a nice point. There are so many adorable pygmies on the list it would be hard to choose just one anyway <3

 

I think the effort trying to limit future release numbers is a step too far though. Pygmies, for example, are pretty popular. Like easterns they just suffered from neglect.

[Fiona]

I consider 20 a good minimum target for each category of NDEGs. That way you can do a nice 5 gen EG Gaia* dragon with enough left over to be able to pick and choose breeds. That's the range of breeds we had when such a lineage was first proposed. (*Gaia is one EG term sometimes used for even gen lineages where each of the dragons in the starting gen is a different breed. The Fifth Element lineage also calls them Leeloos. I haven't seen other terms used, but it's handy to have a term that fits this particular style of EG.)

 

Having a full spectrum of colors would be nice too, because some people like being able to do rainbows. Multicolor breeds could help that. Our regular dragons have such a nice range of colors to choose from.

 

I don't know that I want only NDEGs until we have enough breeds for a good base for lineages, but I'd like to see a bit of a focus on them for awhile. I don't think we need to structure it quite as rigidly as some have suggested, such as "one of each per year DC has been around" or anything like that.

 

 

 

 

... also... I think I mentioned shiny NDEGs. We needz dem.

[Ribombee]

I like sprites for their particular look and how they look in a checker. It's really difficult to make a checker of anything in the NDEG category. We got a really nice pygmy release with the magelights (thanks Mari!), which renewed my interest in pygmies. I am not positive about checkers with them and current pygmies, but I have started collecting some magelights in hopes that some more nice pygmies will come out. There are some lovely sprites in the done queue, but we get them so infrequently. I love some of the drake sprites, too, but the only checker I like so far are the ochres with the glaucus, and getting anything other than glaucus has proven impossible. So I gave up on that checker project idea.

 

There are just not enough to make really interesting checkers for everyone who loves checkers (which is a good number of the people on the forums). There are also no rarer NEDGs. Having rares of these encourages people to breed them, as would ones with second gen alt forms (like black, vine, and undine). Alt forms are a sure way to have people breeding a lot of a certain sprite in an effort to get the alt form. Even one with multiple sprites like pyrals and gemshards would allow for a same-breed "checker". I like purebreds of some breeds, but there's a definite draw to being able to make fun patterns. As far as rares, I'm not talking about something as rare as silvers and golds. Perhaps something as rare as trios. They are reasonably easy to get, with some hard work in either trading or hunting, without being too common. Rares encourage people to breed them for the challenge. Part of the reason there are so many metal checkers is because they are not super easy to get and are, therefore, worth something. Add a bit of variety to the NDEGs and throw in a semi-rare, and there might be some more interest.

 

Of course, there is always the possibility of a BSA going on a NDEG, as well, which would encourage people to collect them. In this case, of course, it would be best to go on a common. I am not suggesting we make up a BSA just for a NDEG, but in future BSA ideas, we should highly consider NDEGs. I know there are a couple ideas for misfits, though I am not sure when the last BSA release was or if we will ever get any others. So this might be a pointless idea.

Edited June 5, 2015 by harlequinraven

[dragongrrl]

Having a full spectrum of colors would be nice too, because some people like being able to do rainbows. Multicolor breeds could help that. Our regular dragons have such a nice range of colors to choose from.

 

I don't know that I want only NDEGs until we have enough breeds for a good base for lineages, but I'd like to see a bit of a focus on them for awhile. I don't think we need to structure it quite as rigidly as some have suggested, such as "one of each per year DC has been around" or anything like that.

 

 

 

 

... also... I think I mentioned shiny NDEGs. We needz dem.

Once there is more balance to the different breed groups, a better release plan could be developed, especially there have been years without releases from any of some groups. One a year of each breed type is at least a starting place, a minimum.

 

That said, I wouldn't want to see any release that is ONLY one breed type or another, since not everyone is interested in all the groups. Releases which leave people out always leave too many players frustrated and complaining, (for example, Avatars) and a grouping of different types like this last release make it easier for everyone to find something they like.

[Ribombee]

Once there is more balance to the different breed groups, a better release plan could be developed, especially there have been years without releases from any of some groups. One a year of each breed type is at least a starting place, a minimum.

 

That said, I wouldn't want to see any release that is ONLY one breed type or another, since not everyone is interested in all the groups. Releases which leave people out always leave too many players frustrated and complaining, (for example, Avatars) and a grouping of different types like this last release make it easier for everyone to find something they like.

Even having one NDEG every other month (alongside regular dragon egg releases) would really help. That's about four of each type (drake, pygmy, and two-head) a year. Even if the NDEG release had several variants, like gems did, you could release them alongside one other regular dragon breed so people who did not like NDEG still had something. I know some of the pygmies on the completed list have a ton of variations, for example.

[XiziX]

Eeh, not sure how I feel.

 

For the most part, I hate Pygmies. I don't like them, the sprites are usually too tiny, and the ones we have are..."meh" at the least.

 

I only like two of the sprites for the two headed dragons, but so far I like those more than pygmies.

 

Buh, I know it's just my opinion, but honestly I don't care if we do or don't get these breeds often. Though, I prefer anything over pygmies. Literally anything. >.< And quite a few people I speak to feel the same, so at least I don't feel too alone with my feelings of indifference on this topic. X.x

[Dewdropmon]

I'd rather like a few holiday drakes.

I second this! I really really want to see a chocolate-themed drake that would look good with Glaucus drakes.

[Syphoneira]

Once there is more balance to the different breed groups, a better release plan could be developed, especially there have been years without releases from any of some groups. One a year of each breed type is at least a starting place, a minimum.

 

That said, I wouldn't want to see any release that is ONLY one breed type or another, since not everyone is interested in all the groups. Releases which leave people out always leave too many players frustrated and complaining, (for example, Avatars) and a grouping of different types like this last release make it easier for everyone to find something they like.

 

 

 

Totally agree here!

 

This last Release was great - and I think necessary - because the categories of dragons involved have been so neglected in Releases over the years.

 

But speaking as a Pygmy lover (with 13 of the Magelights, lol,) I do realize that many others aren't fond of them/don't collect them, and have personally heard from several people who were disappointed in this last Release because they don't collect ANY of those 3 types, so having variety in future Releases would be something which matters.

 

And the same, of course, would apply to hybrids, which do produce a different lineage type requiring a 1st-gen start of different dragons - ones which not everyone will necessarily like or have on their scrolls, so may be left out entirely.

 

Maybe some kind of rotational Release thing would work, where (assuming that we are back on monthly Releases wherever feasible,) one of the atypical breeding types is included with more widely-breeding dragon-types? And hopefully there would then be something that everyone would like.

 

 

Edit: TLDR - would ideally like to catch up a bit on NDEGs via all-taste-inclusive monthly Releases having a monthly rotation of each NDEG (including hybrids) with regular dragons.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Syphoneira

[NotBambi]

But speaking as a Pygmy lover (with 13 of the Magelights, lol,) I do realize that many others aren't fond of them/don't collect them, and have personally heard from several people who were disappointed in this last Release because they don't collect ANY of those 3 types, so having variety in future Releases would be something which matters.

 

And the same, of course, would apply to hybrids, which do produce a different lineage type requiring a 1st-gen start of different dragons - ones which not everyone will necessarily like or have on their scrolls, so may be left out entirely.

I do not collect any of those types but... I realize that the release was needed. I will not pout if the next releases focus heavily on non-standard/hybrids, because I think a balance will need to be achieved. I'll just not collect them and, instead, have some fun in the AP.

[Marrionetta]

I went through and cited relevant arguments and suggestions in the second post of the thread. I also tried to indicate counter arguments when possible. If you see you have been cited and feel that my summary of the crux of your argument or post is inaccurate or could be more effectively stated, please PM me with an alternative summary.

 

Thanks.

[olympe]

The NS dragons should be brought up to nine of each type, one for each year of the Cave, with one breed from each group added for every year in the future.

Do you have to call them NS dragons? NS has some very bad connotations in my mind, as it's been used for NationalSocialism for ages.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think calling them non-standard dragons is bad in any way, but "NS" is already taken. NSDAP, NS regime...