Further Restrict Breeding

[Syphoneira]

Also, to address the OP directly--you seem like a fairly new user, so (and please forgive me if the assumptions are wrong!), I'm guessing you haven't had much experience with lineage projects yet. Unlike on Flight Rising, where (at least from my short lived experiences) it seemed most people cared about looks instead of parentage, on DC all the dragons look alike and so lineages are much more important. People thus usually aim to build big, impressive lines, like http://dragcave.net/lineage/95zaE, which can take months of work even if everything goes perfectly right--which it often doesn't! DC also has less "diversions" than FR does; beyond collecting, which many older players have often almost completed their main goals with, the main thing left to do is breeding. When you consider both these things, a longer cooldown before we can breed dragons the first time is pretty frustrating.

 

Secondly--while it's easy to see where concerns about too many people breeding too many eggs could arise--it's actually not a big problem here. Sometimes it's actually a good thing! The more people breeding, the more eggs go to the AP. When there's more eggs than everyone can snatch at once, we get a wall of low time eggs (which are, of course, much preferred over high time ones!), which is very nice. The wall often stays at a nice balance without getting even close to being so low as to endanger the eggs. If less people were breeding, though, then this wouldn't be possible.

 

In light of this, I hope some of your fears and concerns are slightly assuaged. ^^

 

 

 

 

 

ADP did such a lovely job of explaining, I'm going to carry this up.

 

 

Hi, Szayelapporo,

 

I was wondering if you'd mind explaining why you think this suggestion would improve the site, and what you'd expect the effects to be?

 

Generally it helps if people understand what the purpose behind a suggestion is so that a more specific and informed discussion can be had.

[AnanoKimi]

Can.... Can I adress this part of it seeing as everyone already adressed the poorly planned 30 day restriction thing.

 

A quick recap on the 30 Day restriction thing.

 

First off we already have a time restriction. 3-4 days for an egg to hatch +4 more days for the hatchling to become an adult. Thats already 7-8 days of waiting from the moment you get an egg to when it becomes an adult. Once there as someone else mentioned, ensuring you have the right mate. All dragons can breed with one another across the board except for DC Drakes, Two headed Dragons, and pygmies. Alright.

 

Once you have the right mate you have 1 in 4 possibilities. 1) Egg is produced which you keep or dump. If you're full it auto dumps, oh well. 2)No egg. They breed but no egg happens. Oh well try again in 7 days from now. 3) No interest. They wanted to but at the same time it was a long day with hunting and she has a headache so it didnt quite happen. Lets give it another go in 7 days. 4) The dreaded refusal. They saw each other, one of them went "Aw hell nah!" and well they ain't ever gonna do the nasty and give you babies ever. Too bad.

 

Depending on breed rarity and ratios the outcome every single week can been any of those four but more often than not is 2-4. So we are already talking about we have plenty of restrictions when it comes to breeding. adding a 30 day restriction is not only not gonna slow anything down but its prolly just gonna make some already easily ticked off users even more ticked off. So unless you want those landmines exploding everywhere on the forums like when prizes happen, best we avoid more restrictions all together.

 

Now in terms of mass breeding. Depending on the breed, its a bloody heaven sent when some users mass breed. If they mass breed some of the common or even blockers, once they reach the 5day mark they get picked up like pan caliente (hot bread or cakes). This means that the more of these babies are produced and then raised in their low time state the more they even out the ratios making breeding and hunting for other things so much easier.

 

Now on yo my next point:

Another breeding restriction should be on inbreeding-- make it so you can't do it. I know this would also damage lineages, but...

 

And besides. Lineages grow too quickly, and the code combinations are going to run out quickly. Therefore, the breeding times should be longer. This also could potentially save room on the site.

 

Please please please stop trying to impose on certain playstyles unless you have done them your self. I'm not trying to be mean but it feels like you have not taken the time to plan out a lineage, get all the necessary dragons for it if possible, spent time recording each dragons name and code, breeding them, nixing those who refused and getting a new mate for them, making sure their babies breed, rebreeding any refusals, and so on until you reach your desired generation. Sure a 2nd-4th generation dragon may come kind of easy, but I dare you to plan out a 12th gen even gen checkered. Now that itsone hell of a feat and I give props to users who get that far and still try to push it one gen further.

 

Many lineages come across many different obstacles. Even stairsteps and spirals. Hoping the hatchling genders right, hoping the right breed is produced once the mate is decided, refusals of a difficutl to obtain mate, etc. Its plain crazy just how difficult these lineages can get. Some take months, some take years. The more people a lineage has to work on it the faster it can grow but even that doesnt guarantee that a lineage will happen in a matter of days or a couple weeks. Some group lineages have taken months and years to get to where they are now so I don't see how lineages grow too fast.

 

Finally inbreeding. Some of the most gorgeous, well planned, largest, and plain jaw dropping lineages have been inbred. Not just because it is easier to do but because it allows users to play around and create amazing things without the extra added worry of finding a new mate for every step of the way. No each mate is already there from the same original pair.

 

One of the lineages I plan to make is an inbred lineage involving my prize dragon and every available mate dragon I could possibly pair him with. On top of that its gonna be a checked of both fails and prize babies meaning at the base lineage its gonna show two of the same breeding like Prize x black but the first offspring is gonna be a shiny, its mate is gonna be a fail. I want to make it the bigges, most gorgeous, most planned out inbred lineage of all time. and I will be adding in any new breed the moment it comes out. meaning there will always be a bigger better lineage of my planned one out there every time. Is this gonna take forever? Oh hell yes, its prolly gonna take me YEARS to get it done. Is it gonna be worth it? You better believe it will.

 

If you were to have your way and create restrictions on inbreeding I would be unable to create such a gorgeous lineage and many others would be unable to create the absolutely jaw dropping beauties that exist today. You have to be involved in a play style to understand how it works. You cannot make a suggestion that imposes on something just because you have personal dislike and a very narrowed vision of what it all really entails. Give this game a few years, learn what breeding and lineages entail, work on one your self, and then try to see if these suggestions are truly worth it.

Edited May 25, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Oddsoxdi]

What if you just really really hate mass breedings? There are currently five (5) Mass Breedings in the Site Discussion, with more to come, I'm sure. So your way of playing is really screwing with mine.

[AnanoKimi]

There's really nothing I can do there. I don't mass breed so its not so much my play style. Mine is personal lineages and collection. Thats it. I would say talk it over with those groups, come to an agreement. Talking is the best way to fix issues. Forcing people to do something they don't want isnt.

[Tehya Faye]

Mass breeding is one of those things that can only be dealt with among the users. There shouldn't be an official site deterrent from something that isn't actively harmful to the game as a whole.

[Lurhstaap]

How exactly does mass breeding hurt your play style? Unless you're really over-reliant on the AP, I can't imagine how that would even work.

 

I would suggest the OP learn the difference between being hated and being disagreed with. You should spend more time playing the game before trying to change it. It's clear that you're basing your expectations for DC on other games you've played, which is not a good idea.

[danicast]

I simply don't understand this suggestion. Why do you want these changes? Why restrict breedings, what is the point in doing that? Why try to stop some mass breedings? The walls last just for a couple of days, can't you wait a couple of days before hunt the ap if you don't want any of the dragons that are there? Can't you hunt in the cave while the AP is taken by a wall? I always ask this because there were some people trying to restrict the holiday wall and I see no point, people can do other things in the game while waiting for a wall to end.

The way that other people breed their dragons doesn't affect anybody's game. Even when there is some users breeding hundreds of dragons to ap, like mints, as example, these dragons are so common that they still drop in the cave. So why prevent mass breeding?

Why make lineages grow slower?

 

Seriously, why this suggestion? What is the point?

[AnanoKimi]

I simply don't understand this suggestion. Why do you want these changes? Why restrict breedings, what is the point in doing that? Why try to stop some mass breedings? The walls last just for a couple of days, can't you wait a couple of days before hunt the ap if you don't want any of the dragons that are there? Can't you hunt in the cave while the AP is taken by a wall? I always ask this because there were some people trying to restrict the holiday wall and I see no point, people can do other things in the game while waiting for a wall to end.

The way that other people breed their dragons doesn't affect anybody's game. Even when there is some users breeding hundreds of dragons to ap, like mints, as example, these dragons are so common that they still drop in the cave. So why prevent mass breeding?

Why make lineages grow slower?

 

Seriously, why this suggestion? What is the point?

The holiday wall is different. The holiday wall is all dragons of 7 days or slightly under. The AP wall of mass breedings doesnt happen till days later and when they come up they are anywhere between 5 days and 4 days time which is incuhatchable time. That makes them move faster than holiday dragons at 7 days which takes 3 days to hatch with incubate. Mass breeding walls mostly hatch within minutes or at most an hour or two meaning once hatched users can go for more. Plus some will be frozen, gifted in the departures thread, or dumped back as hatchlings in the AP. That doesnt happen with holidays. Holidays stay there for days after the breeding period and basically kill or almost kill any low time desirable eggs under their giant wall.

 

A holiday AP wall to a Mass breeding AP wall is not the same in the least.

[Ribombee]

Firstly, no one is hating you. If people were hating you, they would likely be calling you scathing names. I don't think anyone has done that, and if they have, they should be reported to a moderator. We are disagreeing with your idea, which is perfectly within our right to do and has nothing to do with hating you. Based on your forum join date and your oldest dragon, you have been playing for about three months. You haven't had time to run out of sprites to collect. If collecting all the sprites is your only goal, I can understand how it might seem that it will be boring after you complete it and want to slow things down. However, I would venture to say that the majority of players who have been on the game a year or more have different goals, because we have already collected all the sprites.

 

Many of the people who are disagreeing have been playing for years. We know how the game works, we know that your idea would make the game painfully boring without a HUGE overhaul of the entire game system, etc. It is not a game meant to be like Flight Rising. Thirty days works fine on a game such as that, but on this game, it would simply destroy it. The sprites of a certain breed and sex all look identical to one another. Once you have the sprite, you have it, and the only way to get rid of it is to release or kill the dragon. If you are a dedicated player, it only takes a few months to get one of every sprite (other than holidays, which you have to wait on the actual holiday to get). At that point, there would be nothing left to do on the game if breeding for lineages were not a big thing.

 

Given your playing time, you probably have not experienced too much of the horrid feeling you get when a really hard-to-come-by pair refuses one another. Nor have you had "no interest" or "no egg" month after month after month, or the wrong breed of egg be laid continuously as you try to get a silver from a black tea or something like that. There are plenty of speed bumps in the game already. In fact, there are so many that a huge number of players want to remove or have a BSA to get around refusals.

 

Secondly, mass breeding is a good thing in this game! Low egg times in the AP keep things moving so you are not bored staring at the same eggs over and over and over. Eggs under 5 days can be incubated and instantly hatched. The more eggs that are produced, the lower the egg times will be.

 

Thirdly, 30 days to adulthood would positively destroy any of the rarer breed lineages. Sure, you could still get plenty of cave blocker commons like purple dorsals. However, rarer breeds already tend to not produce an egg. I have been breeding seven pairs of blusang x silver for four weeks now, without a single egg of EITHER breed produced. That's already a month of no eggs just for one generation. Given that cave bred silvers are not easy to come by (they are a very rare), I cannot just keep getting more cave bred silvers and more cave bred blusangs (which are a rare) to keep throwing at each other. Assume I get an egg next week when I breed. Assume I even get two eggs, a potentially mated pair. That is 5 weeks to get one pair of dragons.

 

Now, let's say the pair refuse (which happens quite a bit). I am back to square one and might spend another 5 weeks trying to get a pair. Assuming they now DON'T refuse, great. I finally have the 2nd generation pair after two and a half months. Now I got another 5 weeks trying to get a second pair and trying to get an egg from the first pair. So far, 15 weeks, assuming I get no more refusals. Now I go another 5 weeks trying to get a 3rd gen egg of the right colour from the second 2nd gen pair. 20 weeks. It has now taken me four months just to get to a 3rd generation pair. Again, this is assuming that I only have ONE refusal out of all of them and it only takes me 5 weeks each time (which is probably under guessing). Oh, but wait. I forgot to add in the time to grow up. At minimum, we have 5 days per generation. So that's another 10 days per generation (30 days counting from the cave bred parents to third generation). 5 months to get to third generation. Now let's do your 30 days instead. That's 7 months just to get to third generation, which is considered a "short lineage" in Dragon Cave. To get to 4th generation would probably take a year. 5th generation? I doubt anyone would ever even bother, and just forget anything beyond that. In games like Flight Rising, you can get to 4th generation in a half a year or less. With my calculations, we are already double that time.

 

That scenario was with a RELATIVELY easy rare checker lineage. Blusang and silvers actually breed pretty well, compared to other combinations. My silver x black tea lineage took me a year just to get a silver second generation mate for the black tea I already had. It might easily take me another year to get a silver baby out of them and find or breed another silver second gen to go with my other black tea 2nd gen to extend the lineage one more generation. I definitely do NOT need to be adding 30 days on top of every generation time for that lineage! Dear god, just no! And don't even get me started on trying to breed golds... Silvers are a walk in the park compared to trying to get gold offspring for checker lineages!

 

My point is that, yes, it is easy to breed the very common breeds. It is meant to be. They are supposed to have a ton of them in game, which is why they are very common. Anything past that, though, and the times can really start stacking up. If you happen to be REALLY lucky and breed when the ratios are in your favour (may the odds be ever in your favour!), you might get what you want right away. If you are unlucky, and the ratios are off, your chances of getting the right egg are almost zero.

 

There is more than enough difficult and frustrating aspects to this game, as it is. People complain constantly about them. A few of them (such as permanent refusals) I agree with. Adding 20 days to the normal time to be able to breed is only going to upset players a lot more and drive many of them off.

 

Plus, it would likely promote mass breeding of the relatively unwanted very commons even more. With nothing to do but wait, breeders are more likely to breed EVERYTHING in their cave. I most commonly do mass breedings when I am egg-locked or waiting on my brats who won't produce the right egg to come off cooldown. I'm bored, and there is nothing else to do but mass breed everything. It would make it next to impossible to ever trade for ANY rarer breed (because when people finally got them, they would not want to trade them at all), and you would have to pay an arm and a leg for lineaged rare breeds. People already complain about the price of prize offspring and CB golds. If it takes the extra time to get that gold lineage project going, you're going to need more CB golds, and the chance of being able to trade for them is going to be even lower. It will help no one, and it will either not help the glut of mass breeding or make it worse.

 

Inbreeding lineages is fun. Sure, in real life inbreeding and line-breeding are bad, but these are pixels and there are people who enjoy making hideously messy lines or incredibly neat ones that are nothing but descendants of a single parent line.

This is not even a factual statement, honestly. Inbreeding in species which do not have a mechanism to deal with it and which have a lot of deleterious recessive alleles is a bad thing. In humans, this is the case, and inbreeding is bad. In many species, especially many plants, inbreeding is actually extremely common and causes no issue. Any offspring that have the deleterious recessive very quickly are removed from the population, leaving nothing but extremely fit offspring. Humans see inbreeding as bad because it is bad for us. However, some species ONLY self-fertilize or reproduce via cloning. It's literally the most inbred you can possibly get, and they do just fine for millions of years. There is no reason for which dragons could not have a similar mechanism for dealing with inbreeding and be perfectly healthy with it.

Edited May 25, 2015 by harlequinraven

[Obscure_Trash]

Everyone has pretty much already said I wanted to, so I'll say I agree that a restriction isn't needed.

 

To breed, dragons need to be adults.

Not all breedings successfully produce an egg (no interest, refusal).

We can only breed each dragon once every week.

 

That's a fine amount of restriction, IMO. As well, the AP no longer blocks the cave (we can hunt in the cave when the AP is full), so mass breeding really doesn't hurt anyone.

 

If someone does not like inbred lineages or indeed any specific type of lineage (or lack thereof), they do not have to pick up those eggs. Heck, if you pick up those eggs, you can bite them with a vampire, kill them, or earthquake them if they really don't even want them to exist.

 

If people don't like mass breedings (and a lot of mass breedings are choosing a variety of dragons to breed, so it's not even just one breed in the AP), they can hunt or do their own breeding that day instead of hanging out in the AP.

 

But there is nothing wrong with inbreeding or mass breeding in terms of the game, so I do not think disallowing these things is a good idea. I also don't think more restrictions make sense. There is a difference between some users being temporarily annoyed because other players don't play the same as they do and between other users games being completely disallowed just because some others don't like playing that way. =X

 

EDIT: And thanks, Niyaka for complimenting some of my lineages!

Edited May 25, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Natayah]

Actually there is already a breeding (not including Non-Breeding Dragons) limit that is MUCH stronger than what you suggest. Once a year. Maybe twice. That's it.

Holiday x Holiday Breeding is Tough Business.

[Odeen]

 

 

This is not even a factual statement, honestly. Inbreeding in species which do not have a mechanism to deal with it and which have a lot of deleterious recessive alleles is a bad thing. In humans, this is the case, and inbreeding is bad. In many species, especially many plants, inbreeding is actually extremely common and causes no issue. Any offspring that have the deleterious recessive very quickly are removed from the population, leaving nothing but extremely fit offspring. Humans see inbreeding as bad because it is bad for us. However, some species ONLY self-fertilize or reproduce via cloning. It's literally the most inbred you can possibly get, and they do just fine for millions of years. There is no reason for which dragons could not have a similar mechanism for dealing with inbreeding and be perfectly healthy with it.

Whoa there cowpoke. Our dragons aren't breeding like wild animals (or plants, my goodness). They're breeding like domestic dogs, cats, horses, etc. Inbreeding in these restricted gene pools where most of the members of the population do get to reproduce no matter what IS a potentially bad thing if done too extensively. Even seemingly healthy individuals can have inherited catastrophic faults that human intervention allows to persist.

 

Look at racing thoroughbreds. In the past fifty years or so their legs have become frighteningly delicate thanks to breeding multiple times to champion racers that were prone to minor injuries. Sure, a slight propensity toward hairline fractures and bruised tendons was only a minor hiccup in the careers of these exceptional athletes, but their poor confirmation was inherited by their offspring, many of which broke down catastrophically on the race track and lost their lives as a result.

 

So yes, my statement was correct even if I didn't feel it necessary to write a full doctoral dissertation describing the exact circumstances to which I was referring. Either way, these are still pixels that have no genetic inheritance, so inbreeding means diddly.

[HeatherMarie]

I would really like to understand why to OP wants these changes so bad. Do they think it will make the game better somehow? How? Why?

 

I may be wrong, but it sounds like the OP doesn't like certain aspects of the game (inbreeding, mass breeding) and so wants to get rid of or cut down on those things.

 

But *many* other users *do* like those things. Inbreeding, for example, might sound icky or something 'cause to humans it's a bad thing. Not to dragons. Dragons don't give a darn about inbreeding, that I know of. And inbreeding doesn't *mean* anything on DragonCave, nothing bad happens because of inbreeding. Mass breedings can be a good thing too. Sometimes users mass breed really wanted breeds, and a lot of users like picking up those eggs. If you see the AP with a lot of the same type of egg, just ignore it. You might not want them, but chances are other users will.

 

And besides, breeding already is restricted. You have to wait for your egg to hatch, then mature, then adult. You can only breed once every 7 days, even if the breeding doesn't produce an egg.

[Guillotine]

I agree with the majority; the results of mass breedings don't last long or block the biomes these days, so worse comes to worst you can just hang out in the biomes until it passes. As for inbreeding... this is a pixel game. If these were real creatures or inbreeding had in-game detriments I wouldn't inbreed, but there's no side effects besides being able to look at a dragon's lineage and go "whoa, that dragons shows up 65 times" and maybe freeze it if you don't want it to breed. There's no reason to add more restrictions to breeding than already exist.

[Ribombee]

Whoa there cowpoke. Our dragons aren't breeding like wild animals (or plants, my goodness). They're breeding like domestic dogs, cats, horses, etc. Inbreeding in these restricted gene pools where most of the members of the  population do get to reproduce no matter what IS a potentially bad thing if done too extensively. Even seemingly healthy individuals can have inherited catastrophic faults that human intervention allows to persist.

 

Look at racing thoroughbreds. In the past fifty years or so their legs have become frighteningly delicate thanks to breeding multiple times to champion racers that were prone to minor injuries. Sure, a slight propensity toward hairline fractures and bruised tendons was only a minor hiccup in the careers of these exceptional athletes, but their poor confirmation was inherited by their offspring, many of which  broke down catastrophically on the race track and lost their lives as a result.

 

So yes, my statement was correct even if I didn't feel it necessary to write a full doctoral dissertation describing the exact circumstances to which I was referring. Either way, these are still pixels that have no genetic inheritance, so inbreeding  means diddly.

 

Whoa there, cowpoke right back at you. I was supporting your opinion that inbreeding was not a bad thing in the game. I was saying there is no reason they might not be alright with inbreeding. There could be a reason, of course, but there are already biological organisms which show that inbreeding is not always a bad thing. My point was that there is no reason for us to restrict inbreeding in the game, to include a biological basis. The reason that domestic animals don't do well with extensive inbreeding is twofold:

 

1. We are working with species which are not already adapted to being inbred.

2. Humans hardly have the ability to know how to properly repeat the natural processes which allow species to thrive while inbreeding.

 

Inbreeding is NOT always bad. In some cases, yes, it is, but not in all cases of either plant or animal species, is it bad. In some cases, it is actually very helpful to the species. My point was to agree with you that inbreeding is not a problem in DC, and it should not be restricted just because many species (most importantly, humans, since we come from a human-centric viewpoint) do poorly in conditions of inbreeding. We cannot assume that dragons are like us. They could be like any other animal form known to science, or even ones not known to science (they ARE dragons, after all). As long as it makes some sort of sense in the overall scheme of things, it works.

 

Should dragons have already had inbreeding as a natural process before humans started coming in and choosing their mates, there is no reason they could not have continued doing so even under human direction. In fact, since there are not deleterious alleles, DC mimics this scenario perfectly.

Edited May 26, 2015 by harlequinraven

[Ruby Eyes]

I guess nobody pays attention to 'don't hate me for this' anymore.

Sorry, I can already feel the bile rising

 

Another breeding restriction should be on inbreeding-- make it so you can't do it. I know this would also damage lineages, but...

If you don't want to inbreed, don't do it. You can always double-check your dragons, there are even tools like AoND's inbred checker to help you with this.

If you don't want inbred dragons from the AP, just drop them.

 

However, I would still like to inbreed my dragons as much as I feel like.

 

And besides. Lineages grow too quickly, and the code combinations are going to run out quickly. Therefore, the breeding times should be longer.

Let's see. We have 5 digits. Each of them can be uppercase, lowercase or a number. That's 26+26+10=62 options for each digit, so we have 62*62*62*62*62=916,132,832 possible codes. That's nearly a billion, plus the already existing 4-digit codes. If we ever get that many dragons, TJ will probably just add another digit, for another 56,800,235,584 possible codes.

 

I don't think we'll run out of anything anytime soon.

 

This also could potentially save room on the site.

What exactly do you want room for, and where? If it's your scroll, you know, you can release or abandon dragons you don't want anytime. Nobody forces you to keep things you don't want.

[Esko]

I guess nobody pays attention to 'don't hate me for this' anymore. Another breeding restriction should be on inbreeding-- make it so you can't do it. I know this would also damage lineages, but...

 

 

And besides. Lineages grow too quickly, and the code combinations are going to run out quickly. Therefore, the breeding times should be longer. This also could potentially save room on the site.

 

Well that happened

 

Anyways, we aren't HATING you. We are giving our honest opinion, would you want us to lie? Anyways, I probably will say something somebody else did, but I will say it anyways

 

Lineages growing too fast? Hell, I would want them to grow FASTER! They are already frustrating enough. If breeding was restricted like this, I would take up my dad's wishes and LEAVE this game for good. I am not the expirienced person like a lot of people here, with collecting to still do, but I would leave. I am over at FR, and I HATEHATEHATE the breeding cooldowns there. Ain't nobody got time for 35 days before breeding! I have a Gold and Sweetling, Sweet Star and Suger Feathers. If I had to wait 30 DAYS to breed them, go through all the gut wrenching stress and not focus on school, then when the time comes, breed them and they refuse? I would literally cry. You have NO IDEA how much relief I fealt when they bred- no offspring, but they agreed. If I had to wait so long just to see a refusal, then I would quit. Probably still haunt the forums (got wrapped in 20+ rps or so?) but not the game. Nope. This idea is what makes FR frustrating, and DC helps me go a little easy.

 

I am more a hoarder, but breeding is where much of my scroll comes from. I freaking DEPEND on breeding for much of my dragon population. You know those GoNs people have? They have to breed them to get the Avatars. If we had to wait so long, people would not bother breeding them- or any hybrids, for that matter. DC's population might drop-not saying it will- with the expirienced players gone, the collecters left, and new players needing help with getting rares, BSAs, ect. with nobody to help. God knows how that would affect cave ratios. Not saying it would happen, but telling with the number of people who only breed, it would affect a lot.

 

Also, everybody knows some players hate massbreeding. They know who they are. But some people love it. Some players, like Stromboli, organize threads in the forums for holiday massbreedings! You know what they say about people disliking massbreeding? "You do not have to participate" which is what all of us here are saying. You do not even have to visit the AP. It is your choice to click that link. I do not often participate is massbreedings, but sometimes, I like to watch walls of the same breed pass by. Just a personal preference.

 

A scroll is like a CB Prize. You can do WHATEVER you wish with it (though don't break the rules). It is your choice what dragons you breed, what you name your dragons, and whatever else you do with them. I have this lovely Shimmerscale. Inbred, but so what? It's cool to look at. It was my choice, and my choice alone. I even knew it would be inbred. And? It does not do me any harm, and no angry players are knocking at my door. And if TJ blocked inbreeding now, what would happen to the already inbred dragons? Would they be killed, just eaten up, sterile? Some people would not give a damn if their pixels dissapeared, besides the effort made to collect them, but some people care for those (like me). They would cry if their hard work was washed away. Some people LOVE inbred dragons, so taking them away?

 

There are other things I probably had in mind, but they are gone now. You get the point? TJ has not yet found a reason to further restrict these things, and likely, he won't. The breeding system is alright as is. Read over these paragraphs and reconsider your claim.

 

Sorry if it is hard to understand, early mornings do things to your brain

Edited May 26, 2015 by Esko_the_Wolf

[Pixxelation]

I don't think this would really have any positive effect on the game. Unlike websites like Flight Rising and Lioden, the limit on adoptables is on growing items rather than overall space. Since there is no currency, are no food requirements, and no death, there aren't any negatives to mass breeding. What few drawbacks there would be are negated by ratios; we aren't guaranteed offspring every week, unlike in those sites. Also, lineages infinitely change the value of each egg and hatchling so that different individuals of the same breed have entirely different and subjective value.

 

In short, market flooding is not and never really will be an issue on DC, which is a large part of why its economy thrives compared to other adoptables websites. Limiting breeding would only skew ratios and damage it, rather than encourage it to flourish.

[DragonNighthowler]

Look at racing thoroughbreds. In the past fifty years or so their legs have become frighteningly delicate thanks to breeding multiple times to champion racers that were prone to minor injuries. Sure, a slight propensity toward hairline fractures and bruised tendons was only a minor hiccup in the careers of these exceptional athletes, but their poor confirmation was inherited by their offspring, many of which broke down catastrophically on the race track and lost their lives as a result.

 

Actually, as in certain dog breeds like bulldogs, this has less to do with inbreeding and more to do with humans selecting a certain set of traits for completely selfish reasons that have nothing to do with health. One of the healthiest dog breeds is the galgo. This dog has been selected for the last 4000 years to be the fittest hare hunters. Those who were unfit or prone to injuries were removed from the gene pool, thus leaving only the healthiest. Today this is a breed that has no known genetic disease.

 

As for linebreeding, I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.

 

Anyways, as I've stated in many cases (and agreeing with you on that point, Odeen), this is a bunch of pixels, a game. We shouldn't bring real life mechanisms into a game. Inbreeding in DC does give some very awesome results, some of which I'd love to own myself.

 

Others have already stated marvelously the many points why this suggestion would add more frustration to the game, therefore I'm not going to add anything else. As someone who works on lineages, I too know how difficult it can be to work on a lineage. Saying that they grow too fast is having little knowledge on lineage building. It took me well over 2 years to reach 6th gen, and I'll stop there for the time being. I've got other projects in mind, one with striped which means I have to breed until I get the right color. Adding more frustrating restrictions would make me give up completely on the game.

[purplehaze]

I am not going to try to argue against your ideas. I agree with the others who have told you why we don't like them.

 

What I would like to see is your reasoning for wanting these things, other than "another game does this" or "I want this". Tell us why. Why should Dragon Cave do what your other game does? How would that improve the game? Why do you want to slow down lineages -- what have you seen that makes you think this is needed?

 

No one hates you here. No one has called you names or flamed you. We just think your ideas do nothing to improve the game and would harm game play for those of us who do a lot of breeding because we enjoy planning out and building beautiful lineages. I don't see how it harms you if others can build lineages faster -- and believe me when I say that most lineages do not build quickly. How exactly does it harm you if others inbreed or mass breed?

 

The fact is that in three pages of posts by players who are much more experienced than you no one has agreed with your suggestion. That should tell you that perhaps you have not thought out your ideas well, but if you have good logical arguments why they are needed, then please share them with us.

[cyradis4]

Don't hate me for this. Maybe we could add a restriction on breeding? Other sites require the dragon(or animal) to be a certain age before they can breed. Most of these are about thirty days. Perhaps we can get this implemented into the game eventually, to cut down the mass breeding and make lineages grow at a slower rate?

Absolutely no support.

 

1. Mass breedings help the breeds mass bred, ratio wise, a ton. Mints used to be major blockers, now they are not thanks to a certain mass breeder.

 

2. We have enough restrictions

 

3. Lineages already take long enough, and the common x common lines are already frustrating enough, we don't need to add to that. It already takes years to build most blocker x blocker lines, because of constantly getting the wrong breed.

 

4. The generational length is pretty good here. Not so long you loose interest, but not so short that you don't have to plan.

 

5. What do you have against mass breeding? Yes, the eggs can be ugly, but once eggs are ER even the ugliest eggs get taken. And it really does help the ratios.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[lorimmel]

100% NO from me.

A good suggestion is the one that improves something without ruining something else.

[Eos]

Sorry, can't support.

 

1. I don't inbreed my dragons intentionally, but I have picked up quite a few inbred lineages from the AP that turned out really pretty. If you don't like them and you catch them, just toss'em back?

 

2. I wish my lineages grew quickly! I never get the egg I'm actually looking for! I don't see a problem with lineages growing too quickly, personally.

 

3. Honestly, I'm biased about mass breedings because they allow me to find breeding combinations that I either don't have or would never have thought of. I can understand if you don't like mass breeding though because some people don't. If I see a wall in the AP that I'm not interested in, I look for CB eggs or name my dragons since so many of them are unnamed still. Even if you find the occasional mass breedings annoying, I don't personally think it's reason enough to add even more restrictions to breeding on DC. We have a lot of restrictions already.

 

[Predat0rs]

What on earth ...

 

NO.

NO.

NO.

NO.

NO.

Did I say NO already???

 

Lineages and breeding are a huge part of the game. No, not everyone takes the time to create lineages, or they don't care about them, but A LOT do care. Even the ones who do not care about lineages still BREED. Restricting breeding sounds super terrible to me. If breeding was restrictive, there would be a lot less to do in the game.

 

I wish breeding was MORE frequent. I can never get the egg I want, or they refuse/don't produce. It's frustrating. To make me have to wait 30 days before I could breed the next part of a lineage is torture.

 

I do not support this AT ALL.

[Red2111]

the only way i'd support a longer CD is if rejections were 100% turned off, there was a 100% guaranteed egg production and i could choose which egg the pair would produce (or if the pair was guaranteed to multi-clutch) as compensation for the long wait.

 

its already been aggravating enough trying to get a GW from these two ... and given its a copper x gw pairing you'd think thats all i would be getting if i had to wait a month in between just to get another "no interest", "tried but failed" or "green copper" i'd probably stop playing the game out of frustration.

 

because thats not the only project i'm doing nor am frustraited with currently lol

 

 

i also dont see how it would stop mass breeding, nor do i see why mass breeding would be a problem unless you only hunt in the AP. to be able ot build a wall that back logs the AP enough to be noticed means someone already has hundreds of those types of dragons. so its counter productive imo and will hurt the game more than help it.

 

 

as for inbreeding ... thats a personal preference. if you hate them so much, stock up and vamps and just start biting any you pick up. otherwise this is a practice that really doens't hurt anyone and results in some great lineages when done responsibly. i'd be sad if i couldn't continue to eventually build my Antonym project

 

edit - and as for the "run out of 5 letter codes" we've been on 4 letter codes since 2011 when we run out, TJ will just add another digit space to the code line. i'm actually looking forward to the 6 letter codes, cause theres a lot of words i'd love to collect *nods*

Edited May 26, 2015 by Red2111