Changing egg coloring/design aka White/Silver

[Fuzzbucket]

I really don't see how any of these are being confused.........

 

Some people are colorblind. Some people do not have great color vision (ability to tell apart different shades). Some people have brighter or darker or tinted monitors that may mess with the appearance of colors on their screen. Whatever it is, this topic is not to debate whether or not YOU can tell the eggs apart. Tbqh, that doesn't really matter. If someone says they have a problem, we have no reason to not believe them or to look down on them for their trouble. This topic is to give your input on whether or not you would be okay with updating/changing some eggs appearances.

I'm not looking down on anyone - just saying that given the variety of monitors in this world, I think any changes made will mean that someone ELSE can't tell the difference.

[diaveborn]

Be careful with the canopy egg, though. I distinctly remember being rebuked quite forcibly by the artist for adding a leaf to it - so you'd better warn people to not "mess" with that particular egg with its original shading.

I thought I read somewhere that eggs had different permissions from regular sprites, in that we were allowed to do what we wanted to them?

 

given the variety of monitors in this world, I think any changes made will mean that someone ELSE can't tell the difference.

Not if it's a matter of adding glows, or a leaf or something else unique, rather than changing colors.

Edited May 20, 2015 by diaveborn

[olympe]

I thought I read somewhere that eggs had different permissions from regular sprites, in that we were allowed to do what we wanted to them?

That's what I thought, too - but I know better now. This rule is only in effect if the original egg template has been used. Or the stone one, which I think counts as one of the originals (I think - at least that one's creator never seemed to take offense). :/

 

And, while we're at it - I also remember the maker of the GoN egg taking exception at their egg being used as a template, too.

[Shienvien]

I think I most support adding slight glow - a pixel row or two around the edge. I'd also like more contrast (not because I can't tell silver eggs from other eggs, I just find it would make them more like the actual metal).

 

 

I'm not looking down on anyone - just saying that given the variety of monitors in this world, I think any changes made will mean that someone ELSE can't tell the difference.

Also this. Monitors are vastly different, eyes are vastly different, and you can't account for all monitors and eyes.

[AnanoKimi]

If we are going to change silvers because some people can't see the difference, I don't see why don't change canopys/greens and cassares/gilded bloodscale. Why some people problems should be privileged while some other people problem should be ignored? I definitely can't see differences in canopy/green and cassare/bloodscale, my problem shouldn't be addressed?

Its not that it should be ignored, is that unless we start decorating every single egg with some accesory compatible to its breed, then we going to be fixing an egg for someone and causing a problem to someone else. Its not that your problem is less seeing as its similar to the original idea, its that sometimes there is no cure all to this problem.

 

Some people are colorblind. Some people do not have great color vision (ability to tell apart different shades). Some people have brighter or darker or tinted monitors that may mess with the appearance of colors on their screen. *snip*

 

This is one of the major issues as to why some eggs look alike and like shienvien said:

 

Monitors are vastly different, eyes are vastly different, and you can't account for all monitors and eyes.

 

You really cant. Your issue may be some eye problem, it could be your monitor, it could be both. And changing something may fix your problem but it may mess it up for everyone else.

 

Personally if its non invasive I'm okay with (by invasive I mean direct change to the egg such as color, shading, or outlines) but we have to start considering how far we can go with this. How many people have issues with x egg in comparison with y egg and as such how many eggs are we gonna have to start putting little accessories on to ensure they stand apart from other eggs. We also have to consider new concepts and eggs, should an issue arise does that mean that from now on to be safe every single concept should have a version of their egg with and without an accessory just incase their egg becomes one of these problematic eggs for being too close in resemblance to another by members of the community with monitor problems, eye problems, or both?

[olympe]

I don't think we need to consider every single egg from the request threads - that would be overkill, and besides, most of them won't be released anyway.

 

However, we can start with changing eggs that cause issues. Adding a couple of small pebbles to the pebble/light green egg sure doesn't count as invasive, does it?

 

But I have to admit that the egg group silver/white/grey/nocturne is the most problematic right now, with the silver being somewhere in the middle between all others. Changing that one egg would probably solve all issues with that group. Adding the glow is one thing, but maybe too subtle, depending on the background color you have. Upping the contrast while keeping the regular egg template makes it more distinctive, too. And without causing confusion with silver tinsel eggs, since that has very obvious dithering that makes it stand out.

[dragongrrl]

I don't think we need to consider every single egg from the request threads - that would be overkill, and besides, most of them won't be released anyway.

 

However, we can start with changing eggs that cause issues. Adding a couple of small pebbles to the pebble/light green egg sure doesn't count as invasive, does it?

 

But I have to admit that the egg group silver/white/grey/nocturne is the most problematic right now, with the silver being somewhere in the middle between all others. Changing that one egg would probably solve all issues with that group. Adding the glow is one thing, but maybe too subtle, depending on the background color you have. Upping the contrast while keeping the regular egg template makes it more distinctive, too. And without causing confusion with silver tinsel eggs, since that has very obvious dithering that makes it stand out.

The Silver egg was lightened several years ago to avoid confusion with Grays and Nocturnes - to darken it again would recreate all that confusion. The other egg to consider is the Shimmer - get too bright with the Silver, and someone will have problems with the Shimmers. A soft glow around the egg, without changing its color/shade/tint/contrast is probably the best option.

 

Personally, I have no problem distinguishing any of the eggs discussed. They are all quite different to my eyes.

[olympe]

Silver Shimmer eggs are quite easy to distinguish from any other silvery egg. For one, they have those tiny speckles, which are especially visible in the highlighted area. Second, they have a very distinct highlight near the right-hand side bottom that clearly distinguishes it from any non-shimmer egg, as it gives the impression of an egg within the egg. Even to people with bad screens and bad color vision, I would think.

 

 

That being said, I must say that I can tell these eggs apart if they're side by side. But when I see only one, I often wonder if it's a white or a silver. Of course, it's usually a white - or long gone before I click.

[Syphoneira]

If I can toss in a few observations, I'd like to again point out that any colour change of existing eggs will initially confuse everyone, especially those off-forum and who have not been following this discussion, and will, considering past experience and the difference between vision and monitors, simply shift confusion elsewhere to other people, as has been pointed out above.

 

 

Another thing is, where any doubt regarding a possible metallic on the AP is involved, we'll click instantly, and all but one clicker will miss it, lol.

 

If it's something we don't want, whether a wrong egg or an unsuitable lineage, we drop it, and we routinely do so anyway when picking through the AP.

 

Since we don't often HAVE decent Silvers landing on the AP, an added glow which would actually make it stand out enough to be picked up even faster would at least not make it more resemble some other egg.

 

And why, otherwise, have the egg colouration changed as well?

 

 

We have a great number of eggs which may be perceived by at least some as being of similar coloration to other eggs, even where the vast majority may have no trouble with them.

 

If we shift the site over to changing all of these to different colours, doing so again and over again as different people point out that they NOW have trouble distinguishing these AFTER the changes, *once they learn to recognise them again* - as has occurred and is occurring with the Silvers - TJ will never get anything else done on the site and everybody will suddenly have a shifting problem recognising various long-existing AP eggs, rather than perhaps those of a group of eggs within which they already know they have some issue.

 

That means that mass quantities of people will be frantically clicking on AP eggs of older types which suddenly look different and like !!!???new eggs???!!! on a chronic basis as they variously change and there will be unhappiness with that.

 

 

The Silvers are a special case, being a desirable sprite which is harder to come by, so adding an external sign in keeping with their description makes sense in helping those having troubles identifying/seeing colours.

 

 

Where the spriters/TJ have no objection, adding something external to the egg sprite in keeping with their description in facilitating the identification of various self-coloured eggs with which people may have issues would also make sense, although this is not typically perceived as being so much of an issue where the eggs are NOT highly desirable and can be picked through at leisure on the AP, since we would anyway do that, looking for specific lineages.

 

But we already know that changing the colours of existing eggs is not likely to help overall, just cause problems for other people, in turn.

[lightningsky]

*shrugs* I don't see why we have to change the Silver's eggs. This has been brought up before (awhile ago?) - and with it, a suggestion to help all types of colorblindness, and so far I haven't seen any change for it.

 

I'm just gonna say I'm neutral on this - since I don't feel right to deny those who have colorblindness or just cannot tell the difference so easily like I can. But part of me likes the simplicity of the Silver eggs, not being defined by their glow, but just the shiny silver color of them.

 

Since this only applies to AP Silvers, and being that it's so rare to really even see one in there...It's not that much of a big deal, unless you ofc were hunting for your very first Silver ever.

[AnanoKimi]

Syphoneira, your point is exactly that of it comes down to the individual. The individual case of each person will attribute to whether certain eggs will be a bit more distinguishable than others. We cannot predict every single individual case of monitor color, eye issue, etc and as such we cannot start taking into consideration every single individual person's issue. What may be an issue to one person, could be fine for everyone else.

 

And seeing as it is an AP issue like many have said, when in doubt click. In the end you can toss it back.

Edited May 21, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Syphoneira]

*shrugs* I don't see why we have to change the Silver's eggs. This has been brought up before (awhile ago?) - and with it, a suggestion to help all types of colorblindness, and so far I haven't seen any change for it.

 

I'm just gonna say I'm neutral on this - since I don't feel right to deny those who have colorblindness or just cannot tell the difference so easily like I can. But part of me likes the simplicity of the Silver eggs, not being defined by their glow, but just the shiny silver color of them.

 

Since this only applies to AP Silvers, and being that it's so rare to really even see one in there...It's not that much of a big deal, unless you ofc were hunting for your very first Silver ever.

 

 

 

I'd overall agree with you, and would personally prefer that the Silvers not be changed again, but in this case I can see an addition, such as a glow, being worth supporting, although it's actually not likely to help anyone not among the fastest catch more, and would obviously make it less likely as the fastest would see and scoop them up more quickly than ever.

 

But at least people wouldn't be picking up and dropping any Whites by mistake.

[KuroYukia]

I am personally for the OP of this thread, if they're okay with it, updating the first post/title to be more inclusive of all suggested changes and sprites being submitted here or simply being PM'd to TJ. Otherwise maybe someone else could gather up all updated info and the OP could, in the first post, link to the post that will get updated.

 

As for permissions, I think all you need is TJ's go ahead that it's fine.

 

~

 

I agree that there's not much fuss, but adding a simple glow/leaf/whatever else could make eggs more fun/doesn't hurt in any case. I don't want to say all eggs need some extra decoration because I do like having some plain colored eggs, but yeah.

If I can get a little help, I'd be more then happy to change the title and everything. Personally I'm thrilled so many people are speaking up with their issues, though this would be turned down, or flamed.

 

 

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm not looking down on anyone - just saying that given the variety of monitors in this world, I think any changes made will mean that someone ELSE can't tell the difference.

I'm gonna pick on you here, fuzz, but only because you know I love you and my post has been quoted quite a few times now. So let's try another explanation:

 

I am unsure why people keep quoting my post to go "but then someone else won't be able to see the difference!" when my post had nothing to do with that. It was a semi-modly reminder for everyone to be careful of your tone on this thread because tone doesn't carry over internet very well. At no point did I say you had to support a color change or even any change - in fact, I very specifically stated the point of the thread as to your opinion on whether or not you would support various changes.

 

Yes, when we're discussion just color changes, pointing out that differences in monitors means that not everyone will always be able to distinguish differences in shades, but, uh, that's not what my post was about. I quoted very specific posts for a reason. ^^;;

Edited May 24, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm gonna pick on you here, fuzz, but only because you know I love you and my post has been quoted quite a few times now. So let's try another explanation:

 

I am unsure why people keep quoting my post to go "but then someone else won't be able to see the difference!" when my post had nothing to do with that. It was a semi-modly reminder for everyone to be careful of your tone on this thread because tone doesn't carry over internet very well. At no point did I say you had to support a color change or even any change - in fact, I very specifically stated the point of the thread as to your opinion on whether or not you would support various changes.

 

Yes, when we're discussion just color changes, pointing out that differences in monitors means that not everyone will always be able to distinguish differences in shades, but, uh, that's not what my post was about. I quoted very specific posts for a reason. ^^;;

Be my guest, sweety.

 

But I didn't see anyone looking down on anyone - then again, I haven't your modly experience !

 

I realise it can be very hard to tell eggs apart (I am in NO way colourblind, and have no vision problems of any kind - but I do have an issue with sunstones, shallows and magis in the AP !) - but short of - as someone said - sticking leaves on them etc - I think any change will make little difference - if it helps one person, it will disadvantage another.

[AnanoKimi]

I know I'm guilty of using your post Sock but in a way to look down or make anyone's issue less than anyone else's but more as an example of all the variants that come in to play when you start to list all the eggs that users cant see. Like one thing is silvers and whites because silvers are an easy fix but once we start going into "Weeeelllll in that case I can tell x y and z egg apart, also A and B egg look alike, and lets not talk about E and F egg that are virtually twins" Then we kind of start having to say "Okay so have you checked your monitor? Do you know your monitor color settings? have you toyed with them? Do you have any eye conditions? Are you sure? Do you need glasses for anything? Maybe thats the cause. Etc, Etc."

Edited May 24, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Syphoneira]

Yeah, so (as was discussed in another thread at some point or another,) a few pebbles around the base of the Greens/Pebbles/Earths and a little Fog around the Fogs/Greys/Storms, (lol, we've used too many common names over the years among ourselves, can never remember which the official ones are for some of these,) like a beautiful glow added to the Silvers, might really help people with difficulty from whatever cause in telling them apart, although initially there'd be a lot of people snapping them up thinking - 'hey, NEW EGG!' only to discover they weren't, lol.

 

But once that got sorted out, we'd actually have a solution which wouldn't just be switching around the people who couldn't tell one egg from another.

 

 

 

Edit: it seems to me that the revised OP covers the general situation.

 

Although I would not have considered the fact that people unaware of this discussion would be initially thinking that there was a new egg because of an added identifier as any actual reason to keep them as is, (just something that would happen, but be sorted out as soon as they looked at the Encyclopedia link,) this also has been sensibly addressed in the OP:

 

'...Not if the eggs on scrolls are changed and a message on both caves and forums is release. Or even a message on the top of scrolls like with holiday events for a few days. If people are returning from a hiatus they will most likely check the wiki/forums or other thing to see what they missed ...'

Edited May 25, 2015 by Syphoneira

[KuroYukia]

Just bumping to keep it interesting.

 

Anyone having more thoughts besides what I added recently?