Gender Identity Safe Space Thread

[Switch]

Goddamn, the events from the otherkin thread still have me on edge, even hours after the fact. I want to point something out that could technically be considered discriminatory, but I feel like people will turn around and claim it isn't (despite not being trans themselves and having no right to define what is or is not transphobic behavior...), claim that I'm being oversensitive or something, and ignore everything I have to say. :/ It's really stressful, because on one hand I have knowledge I'd like to share, but on the other hand I just know I'm going to get zero support. It's horrible. I don't want to start another argument, but I also want to educate, only I'm not sure I have the emotional stability to handle being bombarded with questions and ignorance.

 

I hate PTSD, I hate anxiety, and I hate depression. They're all things that are steadily ruining my ability to handle effective communication. :'<

uugh im sorry :c i have bad anxiety as well. i hate arguments especially around subjects like this. i read what happened after the fact and just reading it made me extremely uncomfortable & sad. i totally cant blame you for not wanting to risk that spat again...

[rabbithaver]

I'm still really upset that they didn't stop after being asked multiple times, even when I begged them to. Like, stop demanding information from me when I'm in such a bad place I can barely type. And then they went and got the thread locked, keeping those of us who would rather peaceful discussion from having a thread for that. It was obvious I was having a panic attack but they accused me of being offended and shouting them down when in reality I'd answered every question I had seen at least once. I got frustrated and anxious because they ignored my answers and kept asking the same questions, and they just. Didn't. Stop.

 

I'm still so frustrated. It felt like I was being beaten out of a thread I was supposed to belong in because I valued the mental health oftrans otherkin. :/ People who had never posted on that thread before came in just to tell me I was wrong, and on one occasion told us to find a different thread so we "could use al the bad grammar we wanted". And then it got taken away because they cared more about grammar than the people they were talking to.

Edited March 21, 2015 by oddinomaly

[Obscure_Trash]

Nobody may rant about or attack any forum users in this thread, even if you do not name them specifically.

While I understand completely the anxiety threads such as the otherkin and gender threads have (and still) cause (hey, why do you think I've wanted to start such a thread in the first place?), I do not want anything to start in this thread either. Respecting other users is in the board rules and that means not talking about them like this. I love you all, but if you need to discuss specific board incidents, I suggest taking it to PM. <3

[Switch]

ye. im actually pretty excited to take selfies for trans awareness day hue hue hue. i just hope nobody gets on my case for wearing makeup and a skirt but honestly im beyond caring about that at this point. >3>

Edited March 21, 2015 by Switch

[rabbithaver]

Sorry. I'm just so freaked out by that. It was one of the worst panic attacks I've had in a long time and I'm still reeling from it. I don't even know how to feel anymore other than hurt, and paranoid that no one will ever take me seriously again. Hurt, paranoid, and just...I don't know. It isn't anger because it isn't personal, just extreme exasperation, disappointment and fear. I don't want Dragcave to be another stressor for me. I don't want to be driven from this community like I was with Chicken Smoothie.

Edited March 21, 2015 by oddinomaly

[Shienvien]

I just hope nobody gets on my case for wearing makeup and a skirt

A man may wear whatever a man pleases, no? :-P

 

@oddinomaly: Tea? I have tea. And coffee. Whichever you'd prefer.

[Obscure_Trash]

Sorry. I'm just so freaked out by that. It was one of the worst panic attacks I've had in a long time and I'm still reeling from it. I don't even know how to feel anymore other than hurt, and paranoid that no one will ever take me seriously again. Hurt, paranoid, and just...I don't know. It isn't anger because it isn't personal, just extreme exasperation, disappointment and fear. I don't want Dragcave to be another stressor for me. I don't want to be driven from this community like I was with Chicken Smoothie.

Ahaha - wanna know a secret? I was actually banned from the "GSA" thread on chickensmoothie because "allies" there attacked nonbinary people (blah blah basically we only existed if we kissed the feet of allies and were binary blah blah) and I didn't like it. I was told I was being aggressive and attacking them. The "allies" still frequent the thread. I'm pretty sure it's actually an ally who was one of the thread mods and banned me. So I do completely understand.

 

I really do actually, genuinely enjoy education, teaching, and learning. But there's only so much you can take for your own mental health. I often start out looking for people asking questions (on tumblr), thinking I'll be able to handle it at the moment, and end up only finding people who are passive aggressive and asking questions that are meant to bait, and end up just blocking people instead. Sometimes I feel like I'm failing at something but those people have shown they aren't interested in actually learning and I'm worth more than that. We're worth more than that. You have to take care of yourself. <3

 

ye. im actually pretty excited to take selfies for trans awareness day hue hue hue. i just hope nobody gets on my case for wearing makeup and a skirt but honestly im beyond caring about that at this point. >3>

 

Hey, you do you. Destroy those gender expectations! >3

[rabbithaver]

My reason for being driven off CS was people made it clear I wasn't welcome. I saw posts on tumblr making fun of me, of my posts. I was like 14 at the time, going through things in real life that made me want to...well, things that made me want to die, honestly. So seeing people who thought I was trying to be a special snowflake on some ranting threads, writing comments like "their art isn't as good as they think it is" and "wow this one radiates special snowflake" and "ughhh I hate this person", it made me realize I was a horrible person both in real life and online. I remember every single comment vividly, and when I get down on myself, they're all I can think about. CS was supposed to be my sanctuary but it got taken away from me, and I don't want that to happen here.

 

Other things happened with CS as well, but that's the big thing that knocked me out of it. I stopped posting, and over time just stopped logging in. On occasion I stumble across the people who said those things almost four years ago, now on tumblr, and it aggravates my PTSD so bad I have nightmares for months. I don't know. I feel a lot like I did then. An overwhelming feeling of "I don't matter to these people" and...betrayal almost. I can't put it into words.

 

Chicken Smoothie was just one small thing but it's one of the reasons why I fall apart so easily online. I just want to make people understand how I feel, so that maybe they would listen, and maybe then consider my views valid.

 

//end emotional vomit

[Omen]

Thank you very much for the welcome, Oddi! Side-stepping the events of the otherkin thread, I want you to know that I accept your identity. You are important, whether you are polykin, nonbinary or someone I only just met today. Just reading how you were treated elsewhere because you were different churns my stomach. Your PTSD sounds severe and I am sorry you are going through it with so little support. I would suggest methods of coping with it, but my methods did very little to resolve my own issues years down the track. I hope you are able to get the support you need, you deserve to feel comfortable. You matter.

 

Is Trans Awareness Day more widespread than just Tumblr? I browse it sometimes (between Tumblr and YouTube I've spent many nights worrying about my identity and both have helped somewhat) but have never created a blog. I'll be cheering for everyone who participates on the 31st! Also Switch, rock that skirt man!

 

Those resources are awesome, thanks for the links. Hm, the binding one has me worried. The binder I bought is one of the 'dangerous ones', if content of the post is of any accuracy. I saw people recommending it elsewhere but I guess I should've done a little bit more review hunting. Ugh. I wanted to buy an Underworks one but the cost was prohibitive. Is it okay if I only use it to see if it makes me feel more comfortable with myself? I told myself before buying it that I'll be moving onto an Underworks one if the 'cheap' one helped me feel a little less like a sore thumb. I guess it beats wearing two sports crops? :x

 

 

I have some questions:

 

Why is trans with an asterisk considered triggering? There's a warning on the OP about it?

 

Advice on coming out? I don't have friends outside of this forum so can't really test the waters with someone I know and trust in person. I love and trust my mother as well as the rest of my family that live here (stepdad and sibling), but as this is my only safe place within thousands of kilometres I'm cautious about coming out... I almost had a breakdown just telling my mother that I think I need to see a doctor about my mental health. She doesn't know about transgender people, or enough about them for me to feel comfortable with outright mentioning it. She's made these comments from time to time like I'm the son she never had or that she didn't need to have a boy because I'm a boy enough for her (she has four DFAB children, to my knowledge my siblings are all cis). In short I think if I say I don't identify as male or female she's going to freak? IDK. I mean she's awesome and is the only parent that has stuck with me through the hardest parts of my life. I feel like I'm hiding an important part of me from her because whenever she mentions anything feminine I just switch off or change the subject. I've dropped sublte hints but I think they were too under the radar for her to notice beyond the "Are you alright?" question that doesn't help me at all. I'm thinking maybe my sibling? Cept she's going through boyfriend troubles and well, my other siblings stopped talking to me, not that they're in the same house. Blah, maybe I should just sit on this until I see a gender therapist. We're getting private health cover soon so I'm going to be waiting around two months as it is. :x

 

 

Finally one for the thread: How did you realise you were nonbinary, transgender or cisgender?

 

 

I stumbled upon the Gender and Gender Identity thread (am I sounding like a broken record yet?), saw a few unfamiliar terms and looked them up. Nonbinary sounded similar to how I felt at the time, but I also looked into Genderqueer. I wasn't comfortable with the -queer suffix at the time, but now I'm okay with it, I just don't feel it's the right label for me. I am wanting to see a gender therapist to talk things out and see what my options are. I get it that jumping the gun this early isn't a good idea, so I'm not planning to do anything irreversable for at least a year, on the basis that I am comfortable with my identity. I guess being overweight doesn't help me much, my body is just bleh right now lol. Like, I'm sort of okay with how it functions, just not with how it looks. It's hard to pick what's discomfort with my weight, what's discomfort with my disability and what's discomfort with my gender identity or expression. So many things overlap. DX

 

 

About the Gender and Gender Identity thread being a debate platform. Thanks for that. I realise now I was offside with a few people because they shared differing opinions to mine and I guess I didn't really feel valid? I was but a babe in the world of transgender identities so wasn't sure of myself and left the conversation. I'm still not sure of myself, but nonbinary is something I feel comfortable with identifying as until I find a more specific term. I'll shush about it now, I can approach that thread with a different mindset. By offside I mean I felt uncomfortable, I realise I was taking offence where I shouldn't have and the people likely didn't mean to offend. Sorry for this, just clarifying that there's no hard feelings on my end. :3

[Switch]

Is Trans Awareness Day more widespread than just Tumblr? I browse it sometimes (between Tumblr and YouTube I've spent many nights worrying about my identity and both have helped somewhat) but have never created a blog. I'll be cheering for everyone who participates on the 31st! Also Switch, rock that skirt man!

i think so! there's a wikipedia article on it that says it was started in 09.

and thank you! i have to get it fitted tho because my hips are too wide for it :V

 

tbh ive never minded my wide hips. i think they look good with my figure? ive had some ppl tell me i have to hate them or im not really trans and it's like pls... stahp. the only real physical issue i have is with my breasts. and on a good note my mom says she'll let me get them removed hopefully some time this year and im really excited! \ouo/

[Omen]

i think so! there's a wikipedia article on it that says it was started in 09.

Awesome, maybe I can drop some hints to my mother then. I'm not big on social media like facebook but if I can find any good articles of sorts I might do a bit of posting there too.

 

and thank you! i have to get it fitted tho because my hips are too wide for it :V

You're welcome! Getting clothes fitted sounds like fun! Nothing better than the feeling of a shirt that fits just right or a pair of jeans that doesn't feel like it's trying to cut your circulation off at the waist. Hope your skirt feels as great to wear as it is likely to look!

 

tbh ive never minded my wide hips. i think they look good with my figure? ive had some ppl tell me i have to hate them or im not really trans and it's like pls... stahp. the only real physical issue i have is with my breasts. and on a good note my mom says she'll let me get them removed hopefully some time this year and im really excited! \ouo/

About the you have to have x to be x. Pssh. Okay, I'm new to the whole gender identity community but if you want to be referred to by certain pronouns and feel more comfortable dressing or acting a certain way, that's enough for me - will carry this thought on below. You love your hips and think they look good with your figure? That's awesome. That, there is self confidence. I wish you all the best with your transition and I am excited for you that your mother is such an awesome Mom where she's understanding and accepting of her son enough to let him make adjustments to feel comfortable in his own skin. Go you! Go your Mom! Holy Batman run on sentence, sorry. DX

 

Okay train of though from above continued below. I felt like I should separate it as it's not a gender identity experience, but it is an experience with discrimination.

 

I spent years being called not disabled enough by people who couldn't see past their own noses because I was lucky enough to have mostly recovered from a super duper stressful almost dead experience to walk again without aids. I've dragged my rear through eight years of subsequent Clinical Depression, PTSD and self loathing to have people who don't even know me question my character. Their opinions are worth nothing, I know that, but it doesn't stop it from hurting. Someone doesn't treat you with respect? Not worth your time, it'll probably hurt, but you don't need to be constantly subjected to people like that. Misunderstandings are okay. Blatant disregard isn't. My father dropped me like a hot potato when I got sick, so I spent years feeling abandoned by him. When I moved on from that, I realised I didn't need his love or approval to live a happy life. I haven't spoken to him since, and I'm happier and healthier for it (not as good as I can be, but getting there). I'm only sorry it took me this long, considering what type of person he was when I lived under his roof. He's a changed man now, but I don't consider him my Dad and still don't talk to him. Course I'm not quite as good as ignoring stuff like that as I might sound, people looking at me is enough to give me the heebie-jeebies.

 

Alright so I used my experience with disability there and in no way am I insinuating that non-cis gender identity is a disability. I'm lucky to have been mostly accepted for having a "masculine" expression throughout my life, so beyond the awkward bathroom you don't belong here's my social discomfort is fairly limited to getting labeled with feminine pronouns (online it's okay; in person, I'm taking issue with people who don't know me taking one look at me, seeing boobs and ma'aming or miss'ing me despite everything else I've done to look not-female). I guess people saw my way of expression as a quirk of character or something. What I'm trying to say is that if they are excluding you because you don't meet their ideals of what it means to be trans, then they aren't very nice people.

 

How do support thing work? I kinda feel like I'm going blind here so if I step on anyone's toes please let me know. I'm not good with sensing other's emotions through speech and action let alone text. Anyway, I feel so much better talking about this stuff. Like the inner me that is feeling all stressed just has this nice, serene calm look to them that doesn't feel like they need to hide under a rock or turtle up into this hilariously conspicuous ball making blubbling sounds that aren't anywhere near as cute on an adult as they are on a baby.

[Switch]

omg thanks a bunch!（˶′◡‵˶）yeah for a couple of years after coming out bcus of ppl like that i didnt present myself exactly how i wanted to but now i dont care and i feel a lot better for it.

[sparkle10184]

I never felt the CS GSA thread was a very safe or welcoming place. It seemed to be very centered on the allies. If an ally did something wrong (rude remark, offensive comment, etc.) and someone else told them off for it, people would say things like "We need all the allies we can get, so don't drive them away." It felt like we had to always make sure the allies were comfortable and happy.

[rabbithaver]

Yeah, that's unfortunately a common thng in the community. Allies have even claimed the 'A' in LGTBQIA, which is honestly disgusting. They tend to care more about the fact that they get attention when they claim to support the community than whether they are actually doing any good. And the entitled, privileged attitude a lot of them have literally disgusts me.

 

"Homophobia is over, the gays can marry now!" is an actual thing that was said to me by an "ally". Like, thanks ignoring the fact that trans people pretty much live in constant fear, LGBTQ people are still mocked and treated like second-class citizens, and many of us end up murdered. :/ People are gross.

 

And the rampant transphobia, cissexism and transmisogyny in the L and G parts of the community is something else that needa to be tackled, but good luck getting their entitled butts to listen...

[rabbithaver]

Of course it's a safe space? I'm confused. You're absolutely welcome here, literally no one has said you aren't? ???

[S0ren]

Soooo late to this, but hey I'm Soren and I'm male-leaning nonbinary, pronouns are in the siggy :3

[gyiyg]

Whooooa man I am not touching this one I can't deal with this again today

 

Ssso pronouns! Anybody want me to keep a list of everybody's on my first post here or somethin for reference would that be useful?? I'd be 100% up for it

[keijaidyyn]

I'm really happy to see a thread like this pop up. "Safe place" threads are always good, regardless of who they're designed to help. I've also noticed that those who post in such threads are frequently a lot less biased toward even those who aren't the same as themselves, and that's something I can really appreciate. We're all different in one way or another in the end, so I don't really see why some differences are singled out and picked at so incessantly.

 

Personally I am biologically female, nonbinary (mostly gender neutral with some degree of fluidity) and have considered partially transitioning in the past to rid myself of certain traits but decided against it due to several factors including cost and risk of infection with my weak immune system. In hindsight, a lot of what drove the desire to get rid of my breasts is the pressure put on females to act a certain way in the "Bible Belt" of the southern United States. I was just so tired of being questioned when I would spend all my time hanging out with mostly guys and feeling like I was either a sex object or sub-human whenever I was outside my little group of friends. Being physically female is tricky when I don't like shaving and wanted to wear shorts or go swimming in summer. Hairlessness makes me feel strange and a little bit vulnerable. I'm not a child; at the time I was a teenager and I'm now a grown person. I shouldn't need to make myself look like I'm prepubescent to be considered normal. There's no hygiene problem as long as you're washing well and on a regular basis, so I don't see the issue. Some areas do get an occasional trim, though. (Don't get me wrong - If you enjoy shaving, go for it! I just don't like it myself and feel like it should be a personal choice, not a societal necessity.)

 

It's not so bad now that I'm no longer in school, though, as I simply don't socialize much in meatspace to avoid conflict. It's really lonely, but I'm just not willing to end up getting hurt over and over again. The only relationship I was ever in ended in the "let's just be friends" move from my then-boyfriend about a month after I explained my identity to him, followed by the fact he started dating my then-best friend less than two weeks after we broke up. I've lost quite a few friends (one of which I had known since I was four years old) over the same discussion.

 

I don't mind which pronouns are used, but it still sucks that I have to let my family assume I'm cisgender. I doubt they're even familiar with the term, though. My father's side of the family is especially bad... I've had to leave the room many times when my great grandmother would start complaining about "them gays and queers wantin' special treatment" any time a news story about the legalization of same-sex marriage or any similar topic would come on the television. She almost had a fit when she found out that a few of the friends I went out of state to visit a few years ago "just ain't normal", as she put it. I've already been pretty much disowned by part of my family for calling one of them out on an extreme case of racism, so I don't really want to lose what's left of my family... but it's a hard thing to ignore. If anyone has any advice on how to approach the subject, I'd welcome it.

 

---

 

In regards to the discussion already happening in the thread, I left CS a long time ago for similar reasons. It's sad, because I really enjoyed the adoptables themselves... but parts of the community were really intolerant. It's pitiful that it's even a problem online, but as long as intolerant folk continue to raise children it's going to be a problem. Even some MMORPG communities became toxic enough to make me leave, which I honestly really regret because I miss the gameplay quite a lot.

 

*Small edit for clarity!

Edited March 21, 2015 by keijaidyyn

[MedievalMystic]

I am trash, and I know it. Sorry

 

Would you please not do that? You felt the need to apologize. You did. Self-flagellation isn't warranted and tends to make people uncomfortable. If snapping at someone, getting aggressive or heated verbally, being grumpy, etc, etc, etc, made someone trash, the entire human population would be trash. lol

Edited March 21, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[gyiyg]

I'm gonna start recording everyone's pronouns once I'm at home ond off mobile, but other than that I don't know if I'm gonna post much here anymore

I feel like even in a thread like this I can't take two steps without being lampooned around here so I just don't have anything else to say i guess :L

[rabbithaver]

I'm gonna start recording everyone's pronouns once I'm at home ond off mobile, but other than that I don't know if I'm gonna post much here anymore

I feel like even in a thread like this I can't take two steps without being lampooned around here so I just don't have anything else to say i guess :L

That might've been my fault. Is there anything I can do personally to help this place be more welcoming? I want to make up for what I did, and make this open and affirming to everyone. I can do art and stuff, make it look real pretty. And provide bunny pictures for sad people.

 

@MedevalMystic: I didn't realize that, sorry. My first instinct is to agree with people who don't like me, in the hope they might like me more. It's flawed.

[gyiyg]

It's not your fault at all

You haven't done anything wrong :L

[Lady_Lunevis]

@Fata: Oh gosh haha, you are a real sweetie ;////; Thank you <3

aa i cry so much thank you!! ; v ; and npnp

 

I just want to apologize if I came off as bitter or aggressive. I am extremely emotional and currently very fragile and I feel I've snapped at some of you, or that you might think I'm a bad or mean person. I'm absolutely horrible at communication, partly because I'm cognitively impaired most days and really easily overwhelmed. I exist in a state of constant anxiety, and tend to jump on people without thinking.

 

Basically if you think I'm a bad person, this is me agreeing with you. I am trash, and I know it. Sorry

these things happen, don't worry about it! please take care of yourself, okay?

don't agree with those who think you're horrible--just like MM said, everyone is flawed in some way. it doesn't make you a bad person for sticking up for what you believe in, you were just doing what you think is right.

 

don't apologise for anything, dear! still, thank you for the sentiment. not everyone is as humble as you are after something like this; so just the guilt go! the otherkin thread and this are starting over, so let's just turn over a fresh page.

 

That might've been my fault. Is there anything I can do personally to help this place be more welcoming? I want to make up for what I did, and make this open and affirming to everyone. I can do art and stuff, make it look real pretty. And provide bunny pictures for sad people.

you are too precious omg i love your art

Edited March 21, 2015 by Lady_Lunevis

[rabbithaver]

I am more than happy to move on from this. <3 It was the most stressed I've been in years, and I know it was for others as well. I don't want people to feel that way again, especially because of me. I would like for some of the other people involved to say something so I know they are also on board with moving on, but we can't have everything.

 

you are too precious omg i love your art

 

SCREECHES IN DELIGHT

tha nk you om f g

[Slater_C]

Oh gosh, I hope you weren't waiting for me, but if so I apologize! I stepped out to get some Taco Bell

 

Anxiety can take hold of anyone and is something I'm all too familiar with. It really is crippling physically and mentally and I empathize completely. I contradict myself all the time by saying "Let's just be cool and calm everyone and talk this through like cool cats daddy-o" and the next minute I'm flipping every object around me and crying and shaking and responding with emotion rather than trying to be collected and reasonable.

 

It just happens. I try to apologize to those around me when it does happen especially if I feel I've crossed a line or come off wrong.

 

It takes a big person to admit that, so it is much respected and appreciated Oddi :3. Thank you.

 

For that too, I also apologize if I instigated any unwarranted stress.