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ANSWERED:Lift CB Valentine / Christmas Limit?

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They dont have meaning for me either. Doesn't mean that within DC world they don't have meaning. I've accepted the DC version of events and I'm happy to follow what it means within DC.
Still, just because they may have some meaning within DC world does not mean that it should have meaning for everyone, does it?

 

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Still, just because they may have some meaning within DC world does not mean that it should have meaning for everyone, does it?

If I went to play on a site run by Japanese, I would expect to be celebrating Japanese Holidays, and I would happily do so, even though those holidays have no meaning for me.

 

Why? Because the Holidays have meaning for the *site owner* and they've chosen to share their Holiday with me via their site. And I would never, ever tell said owner (or even suggest to the userbase!) that I'd want them to celebrate typical US holidays. Why? Because its *their site*.

 

Its the same thing I did in RL, when my best friend invited me along to celebrate a particular holiday the way she had, back in her birth country. I happily celebrated with her, the way *she* had growing up. Did the Holiday itself have any intrinsic meaning to me? No. But sharing the celebration with my friends did.

 

In the same vein.... Telling a site owner from the US that they shouldn't celebrate, on *their* site, the Holidays that have meaning to them the way they have meaning to them is like.... It would be like me going to Japan and telling everyone that they have to speak English because that's what I spoke! I would never do that, because I'm in their country. I would fully expect to have to speak their language in their country.

 

TJ was born and raised in the USA, celebrating typical US Holidays. He's chosen to share some of those Holidays / celebrations with the rest of the community. And I personally find complaints about celebrating the site owner's holidays... rather classless. Sort of like going to someone else's country, and demanding that they speak your language, and conform to your culture, even though you are in their country.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'm gonna be honest and say that the meaning behind the DC holidays for me is simply DC holiday dragons.

 

I'd rather the limit be upped to four over unlimited because I like not having the frustration of hunting that is associated with Halloween releases. Right now, I can get my two and move on in DC life with breeding and catching and doing whatever.

 

Also, most Valentine's and Christmas releases are single gendered, so I don't see a point in having an unlimited release unless all future Valentine's/Christmas releases featured males and females. And even then, I could still live with a two-dragon limit (influencing one male and one female).

 

Editing to emphasize again that I am meh about this and will be fine regardless of whether or not it is implemented.

Edited by Jazeki

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Still, just because they may have some meaning within DC world does not mean that it should have meaning for everyone, does it?

It doesn't have to have meaning for you, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be able to have meaning for anyone else. Also, the fact that you don't celebrate the holiday or believe in the meaning that people assign to them isn't an argument for an unlimited release.

 

For reference, my beliefs are more in line with paganism. I celebrate nature. Doesn't mean that I can't enjoy sharing in the things that make others happy, and learning about other beliefs and cultures. I've always found the "American/Christian/whatever holidays shouldn't be observed on DC because it's an international site" argument to be very narrow minded. As I said, I think it would be interesting to include other cultural holidays because that would be a learning experience for most and is a step towards tolerance and understanding.

 

And now that we've gotten off topic...

 

I still support an increase to three or four CBS, since that would give people the opportunity to freeze all the stages if they wish, or have four adults for lineage work and gifting. As far as the need for them to offset refusals... eh. I rather that reset BSA or just doing away with those pointless annoyances completely.

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If I went to play on a site run by Japanese, I would expect to be celebrating Japanese Holidays, and I would happily do so, even though those holidays have no meaning for me.

 

Why? Because the Holidays have meaning for the *site owner* and they've chosen to share their Holiday with me via their site. And I would never, ever tell said owner (or even suggest to the userbase!) that I'd want them to celebrate typical US holidays. Why? Because its *their site*.

 

Its the same thing I did in RL, when my best friend invited me along to celebrate a particular holiday the way she had, back in her birth country. I happily celebrated with her, the way *she* had growing up. Did the Holiday itself have any intrinsic meaning to me? No. But sharing the celebration with my friends did.

 

In the same vein.... Telling a site owner from the US that they shouldn't celebrate, on *their* site, the Holidays that have meaning to them the way they have meaning to them is like.... It would be like me going to Japan and telling everyone that they have to speak English because that's what I spoke! I would never do that, because I'm in their country. I would fully expect to have to speak their language in their country.

 

TJ was born and raised in the USA, celebrating typical US Holidays. He's chosen to share some of those Holidays / celebrations with the rest of the community. And I personally find complaints about celebrating the site owner's holidays... rather classless. Sort of like going to someone else's country, and demanding that they speak your language, and conform to your culture, even though you are in their country.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I'm just going to quote myself as reply and won't ask you for proof for some of the things you wrote:

 

Page 2:

I would be more in favor of this if we could influence the genders of the new Valentine/Christmas dragons, and/or have dimorphism. If you lift the limit, lift it right.

 

But to be honest I do not care much. (I wasn't happy about the holidays on scroll limit being lifted but I am over it. I guess limits do not matter much anymore, do they?)

 

Page 4:

Well, I really would not mind if things stayed as they are. Going from limit to another limit + keeping one gender doesn't make much sense to me, though, especially because we have this Halloween thing going on. That's like you're eating 4 cakes only while it's "all you can eat". Just because.

 

Little off-topic but, in my little perfect world there would be no limits, both genders, same drop time for all "holidays". And while we're at it let's throw away Valentine, Halloween and Christmas & have unique DC holidays.

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I will probably get a full storm of rotten tomatoes for writing and commenting this, but... The "this dragons are special because of its mechanics" argument to not support a possible change, is pretty much like the interesting or special numbers, an special number is just a number that is given a single or group of characteristics that makes it "special" or "unique", for example, the number 2 is the only number that multiplied or added to itself gives as result the same number: 4 (some even go with religious or historical events, as example: 666 and 911); the point is, any number can be special, and many can vary their uniqueness depending on culture or definition why is special (for example, in catholic or christian religion 666 is the mark of the beast and a very bad sign, but in most asian cultures the 6 is thought to be luckyness and wealthyness, and the more 6s the better, being 666 one of the most lucky numbers); but in reality they are not special at all, they are just numbers being given a characteristic. But here it is done to dragons: this dragon is special because how it breeds, how it is obtained, how it acts... And yes, they are special because of those and many reasons, but they keep being just dragons (and more specifically, pixels). So the characteristics you described about the Christmas/Valentines dragons being special for being mono-gender is really something that makes them special, but it also made special the purples, and bright pinks; but now that I think of it, bright pinks are mono-gender and discontinued, to keep them special its better they not get re-released*, even if the original spriter says its more than fine... this is just an example, of course. So, in my opinion, is kind of flawed as an argument.

Also, the holiday dragons are still going to be "special" even if they stop being monogender, because they are going to breed true only during one week of a whole year, and the CBs will still drop once, for 3 days.

From the day trading was available the forum goers were at an advantage over the non-forum goers, I mean, trading over any other media goes from difficult to almost impossible :/ (unless you have friends that play DC in real life). Also, now we have the "notice-board", and if you dont get to see a message that says "Valentines Day Timeline" is because you had a page view problem, you want to blind yourself or you dont play/arent playing too much (for any reason of course: dont like, getting tired of it, a job, a familiar issue, ...), and for those people it can be fixed by sending an automated email to every user every time TJ makes a new post in the News thread, I dont know if this is too difficult or possible, but is an option, I guess

Sorry if I seem rude or something.

 

 

 

*I am not saying they are going to be re-released, its just an example.

Knowing about the event and being able to catch the eggs are two separate things. My friends who have been unable to catch the eggs have tried. They knew about the event, but due to their shoddy internet, slow computers, health issues, etc. they were physically unable to catch the eggs. Every holiday, you see a handful of people post in the news thread that they are having trouble catching eggs. Often that post is followed by someone else posting, "Check your PMs."

 

There are any number of reasons that people find that they can't catch their own holiday dragons. Fuzzbucket listed one. She has a friend with rheumatoid arthritis who needs assistance (gifting) because there are times when it's too painful for her to work the keys and catch eggs. Removing the ability to gift punishes her because she's ill. That doesn't seem fair, especially since she has found a way to work around her affliction to be able to enjoy the game.

 

And yes, sometimes life gets in the way, Hurricane Sandy comes to mind, where people can't get online. It's nice to see people rally together to help those who are suffering hardships find a little ray of light by still being able to participate in a game that is made to take your mind off your troubles for just a little while. That small token of kindness can mean a great deal.

 

As for as the monogender. To me that is still a part of what makes a holiday a holiday dragon. My point of bring that up is because you list influenceable genders as a plus in the idea you set down. To me that wouldn't be a benefit. I'm sure that I am in the minority, but that would still not be a selling point for me. That's all I was saying.

Edited by Sir Barton

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Knowing about the event and being able to catch the eggs are two separate things. My friends who have been unable to catch the eggs have tried. They knew about the event, but due to their shoddy internet, slow computers, health issues, etc. they were physically unable to catch the eggs. Every holiday, you see a handful of people post in the news thread that they are having trouble catching eggs. Often that post is followed by someone else posting, "Check your PMs."

 

There are any number of reasons that people find that they can't catch their own holiday dragons. Fuzzbucket listed one. She has a friend with rheumatoid arthritis who needs assistance (gifting) because there are times when it's too painful for her to work the keys and catch eggs. Removing the ability to gift punishes her because she's ill. That doesn't seem fair, especially since she has found a way to work around her affliction to be able to enjoy the game.

 

And yes, sometimes life gets in the way, Hurricane Sandy comes to mind, where people can't get online. It's nice to see people rally together to help those who are suffering hardships find a little ray of light by still being able to participate in a game that is made to take your mind off your troubles for just a little while. That small token of kindness can mean a great deal.

 

As for as the monogender. To me that is still a part of what makes a holiday a holiday dragon. My point of bring that up is because you list influenceable genders as a plus in the idea you set down. To me that wouldn't be a benefit. I'm sure that I am in the minority, but that would still not be a selling point for me. That's all I was saying.

 

 

 

This sort of community attitude and the wonderful people it attracts and retains is major among the factors that makes DC special.

 

 

pederino, numbers for Holiday dragons like 2 or 4 are not 'special numbers' in themselves, they are the numbers which are deemed reasonable for the community, so that people have enough to work with, without making catching difficult or impossible for members with limited time or other issues.

 

If DC were a dog-eat-dog, highly competitive, every-man-for-himself type of game, probably most of us wouldn't have become the addicts we did, at least I certainly wouldn't. smile.gif

 

And the fact that there are different characteristics among certain of the dragons, (such as most Holidays being single-gendered,) or distribution mechanics, (such as the Raffle, and Summoning) may introduce their own issues, bu they provide a level of variance.

 

And, as with the variance in sprite styles, for many, such differences are often to be celebrated in a frequently homogenized world.

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This sort of community attitude and the wonderful people it attracts and retains is major among the factors that makes DC special.

 

 

pederino, numbers for Holiday dragons like 2 or 4 are not 'special numbers' in themselves, they are the numbers which are deemed reasonable for the community, so that people have enough to work with, without making catching difficult or impossible for members with limited time or other issues.

 

If DC were a dog-eat-dog, highly competitive, every-man-for-himself type of game, probably most of us wouldn't have become the addicts we did, at least I certainly wouldn't. smile.gif

 

And the fact that there are different characteristics among certain of the dragons, (such as most Holidays being single-gendered,) or distribution mechanics, (such as the Raffle, and Summoning) may introduce their own issues, bu they provide a level of variance.

 

And, as with the variance in sprite styles, for many, such differences are often to be celebrated in a frequently homogenized world.

I know 2 or 4 are not special numbers in DC (also I completely understand why many dont want take away the limits in valentines and christmas), I refered to the dragons being like the special numbers here in DC, because many users claim that making a change to how a dragon or event works will take away the uniqueness of a breed, and I said that, in my opinion, that was not a reason to be against any idea, its just like saying "I am against this 'cause I like it the way it is". And I didnt say that holiday dragons should stop being mono-gender (or that the ones existing should become bi-gender in any case), what I said is that with a big limit, spriters can make bi-gender holidays more easier, without the fear that some people will dislike that due to a short limit. Also, I know here are a lot of good persons (I got my first magma and thunder from 2 users from here), so I can completely understand that no one wants to remove the trade feature.

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It doesn't have to have meaning for you, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be able to have meaning for anyone else. Also, the fact that you don't celebrate the holiday or believe in the meaning that people assign to them isn't an argument for an unlimited release. 

 

For reference, my beliefs are more in line with paganism. I celebrate nature. Doesn't mean that I can't enjoy sharing in the things that make others happy, and learning about other beliefs and cultures. I've always found the "American/Christian/whatever holidays shouldn't be observed on DC because it's an international site" argument to be very narrow minded. As I said, I think it would be interesting to include other cultural holidays because that would be a learning experience for most and is a step towards tolerance and understanding.

 

And now that we've gotten off topic...

 

I still support an increase to three or four CBS, since that would give people the opportunity to freeze all the stages if they wish, or have four adults for lineage work and gifting. As far as the need for them to offset refusals... eh. I rather that reset BSA or just doing away with those pointless annoyances completely.

Again: all I did was point out that your sentiments ("Christmas and Valentine's are about putting others first", "giving" holidays) do not necessarily appeal or apply to everybody here.

For instance, just because Christmas and Valentine's may be about putting others first it does not mean that there are no people who try to betray other people in holiday trades. Or that everybody gifts eggs away. Or that you do not get your dragons view-bombed, which interestingly happened to me after I posted in this thread yesterday (well, it was time to put them into hatcheries anyway, so thanks stranger!).

 

(Off-topic: I would love to celebrate nature-themed holidays, like I stated in this thread already last year smile.gif . )

 

So yeah.

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Besides, I thought someone said Halloween dragons have no limits only because Halloween was supposed to be a 'hoard all the candies!' type of holiday. The other two, not so much.

I believe that TJ said that Valentines and Christmas were about giving, while Halloween was about grabbing all the candy you could for yourself. laugh.gif

 

Anyway, I think I prefer keeping the 2 CBs limit.

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Like some of the others in this thread, I'd support having the limit raised to 4 CBs. I collect three of each new Valentine/Xmas dragon - a S1, a S2, and one adult - so waiting an entire year just to finish the set is a bit irritating.

 

Removing the limit entirely sounds like it would cause more trouble than it's worth.

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It has been easier to catch CB holidays recently, but 'easier' is relative. Measures that level the playing field on holiday hunting - like the 2 CB limit that lets speedier players get in, get theirs, and get out of the way - are part of what makes it easier for folks with little spare holiday time, slow connections, physical impediments to hunting, etc.

 

For all the good that would come from raised limits, including less risk at refusal roulette and more 2G gifting, doing away with the limit would add competition for the aforementioned slower folks, make hunting harder for them, and generally suckify their holidays. So, alas, I vote no.

 

Ungh, gimmegimmegimmegimme eggs. Why must I logic? NGH.

Edited by schmupti

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Holiday breeding is 1 week out of 52 weeks in a year. And for the other 51 weeks, refusals DO happen. And when it involves something like a Prize stairstep and a Christmas / Valentine, you've got just 2 chances for them to like each other. Many people have had their Prize refuse BOTH CBs.

 

Its less of a big deal with Golds and Silvers, because the Golds and Silvers can (with time) be replaced, but for someone who struggled to get that CB Gold in the first place and doesn't have another... Having a double refusal can also be really hard.

 

So yep. I support increasing the limit to 4.

 

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

Also it wouldn't matter since they're only cbs THAT ONE YEAR, what happens if it refuses those FOUR as well. Complain and want MORE limits raised... yeah still against

 

That gives you 51 weeks to find a replacement for them find another stairstep to breed them with. It's not hard to do trust me I did it myself. My holly X pink for example. His first mate refused me for the first time in ages. So i hunted ( took the whole year) but I found someone with the proper lineage and after sending a note replaced the mate.

 

So the whole limits is still fine to me. If not don't worry about breeding or find a way to trade for a new CB metal.

 

Hard work and patience is valued in this game. Time effort and such. If your dragon refuses then find either another.

Edited by KuroYukia

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This point was about CBs. (Just saying.) And some dragons - like CB hybrids, CB prizes or CB golds are very hard, if not impossible to replace.

 

That being said, it still leaves you one week per year to breed that pairing, even if they refuse. Because refusals are turned off during holiday breeding. The refused mate will still be at the bottom of the breeding list, but available for breeding. Heck, you'll even get eggs out of the pairing. (Yes, I know that for a fact. I've managed to breed one of my 2nd gen rosebuds with a mate she had refused previously.)

 

 

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No Support for this.

 

I have a horrible connection and always trouble catching new things. These Holidays are about giving. At least on 2 events everyone should have an easy time to get them.

 

 

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I believe that TJ said that Valentines and Christmas were about giving, while Halloween was about grabbing all the candy you could for yourself. laugh.gif

 

Anyway, I think I prefer keeping the 2 CBs limit.

And the irony when I see way more gifting being done for new Halloween releases than Valentine and Christmas combined.

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That being said, it still leaves you one week per year to breed that pairing, even if they refuse. Because refusals are turned off during holiday breeding. The refused mate will still be at the bottom of the breeding list, but available for breeding. Heck, you'll even get eggs out of the pairing. (Yes, I know that for a fact. I've managed to breed one of my 2nd gen rosebuds with a mate she had refused previously.)

YES, but (and I am still pro the limit of 2) during holiday no refusal breeding season you will ONLY get a holiday egg.That can be annoying smile.gif

 

More gifting at Hallowe'en ? MORE to GIVE - we all have HEAPS more CBs to gift WITH !

Edited by fuzzbucket

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YES, but (and I am still pro the limit of 2) during holiday no refusal breeding season you will ONLY get a holiday egg.That can be annoying smile.gif

 

More gifting at Hallowe'en ? MORE to GIVE - we all have HEAPS more CBs to gift WITH !

I still think that it is not a good option to increase gifting by taking the option of getting CBs from people with a bad connection or people who are slow to click for wahtever reason.

 

The only way I would support this was if a priority to people with no CBs was given at the same time.

 

Meaning: 5 people click the egg, 1 of them has no CBs and gets the egg due to higher priority.

 

As the cave gives out eggs due to speed I do not see this possible however.

 

I remember when Marrows were released I helped people catch them almost all day. In the evening I had to take some medication that subdues my reflexes and I was not able to catch my own eggs anymore.

 

Not being able to catch holidays sucks big time, and there should be at least some events were everyone can catch their share of eggs without having to worry about bad reflexes and a bad connection!

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And the irony when I see way more gifting being done for new Halloween releases than Valentine and Christmas combined.

Yep.

 

I'd still rather see limits removed but I guess raising to four is decent. Also TJ has said the amount of eggs is scaled related to how many people are online (aka more people = more eggs), so there should be lots to go around. Especially since it's a three day release.

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Since I see that AP is almost empty of Valentine eggs throghout certain time of the day I wouldn't mind lifting the limit to 4.

But then I think about the previous years spriter's alts... While Halloween ones can have more than 1 adult spriter's alt on scroll + frozen hatchlings of them I think there should be more for these too if this change is made.

Edited by WoLfgIrLyS

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Since I see that AP is almost empty of Valentine eggs throghout certain time of the day I wouldn't mind lifting the limit to 4.

But then I think about the previous years spriter's alts... While Halloween ones can have more than 1 adult spriter's alt on scroll + frozen hatchlings of them I think there should be more for these too if this change is made.

Actually, Spirters can get TJ to make all their dragons spiriters alts. Not just the CBS. This is true with halloween ones I own a presudo 2nd ( 3rd) gen alt pumpkin and the parents are from another scroll.

 

 

Also, I think a lot are waiting to breed on Vday. I still have ones I haven't bred yet. Arsani the 09's and I believe my chocolate ones ( the red)

 

Last year it wasn't that huge till vday I believe either

Edited by KuroYukia

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And the irony when I see way more gifting being done for new Halloween releases than Valentine and Christmas combined.

That irony is why I support the increase to 4.

 

The one thing I am dead set against is both genders for Christmasses and Valentines. Those are the two weeks when I don't have to worry about influence fail. And it *does* happen. Usually at the absolutely worst possible time - just like with refusals.

 

And yes, you will still get a very occasional one that will refuse all 4. But while I get several refusals each week when I'm doing a ton of new lineages (I average 1 refusal in 8 new pairings), I've had just ONE dragon who's refused 4 mates in a row. Just one. Out of hundreds of refusals. But I've had a number of dragons that have refused 2 in a row.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I am pretty much neutral on this suggestion, but I would definitely NOT want to see the limit removed entirely. If the limit is to be raised I think 4 is a very reasonable number.

 

I don't want to see Christmas and Valentine breeds changed to both genders. Not only is there the issue of possible influence fail, but I think having only one gender actually makes it easier to build lineages with them. In doing blood swaps with other users you only have to worry about whether they are using the same breeds, not about whether they are using the same gender as you.

Edited by purplehaze

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I still think that it is not a good option to increase gifting by taking the option of getting CBs from people with a bad connection or people who are slow to click for wahtever reason.

 

The only way I would support this was if a priority to people with no CBs was given at the same time.

 

Meaning: 5 people click the egg, 1 of them has no CBs and gets the egg due to higher priority.

 

As the cave gives out eggs due to speed I do not see this possible however.

 

I remember when Marrows were released I helped people catch them almost all day. In the evening I had to take some medication that subdues my reflexes and I was not able to catch my own eggs anymore.

 

Not being able to catch holidays sucks big time, and there should be at least some events were everyone can catch their share of eggs without having to worry about bad reflexes and a bad connection!

Things changed drastically since Marrows. That was 5 years ago and we didn't have biomes then. Now, we have 5 places for people to grab eggs. The only time it's "hard" to grab eggs is the first drop due to people wanting to get them asap and incubate them so they can get to trading. After that, it's completely cake. The same eggs sit around untaken until they refresh. It hasn't been hard to get holiday eggs since Biomes. Not for anyone.

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The only way I would support this was if a priority to people with no CBs was given at the same time.

 

Meaning: 5 people click the egg, 1 of them has no CBs and gets the egg due to higher priority.

 

I agree with your sentiments of not making things harder for others and easier for some, but your hypothetical suggestion of giving people priority based on the number of CB eggs they had would make holiday hunting a nightmare because users would spend more time trying to fill up their scrolls with eggs than if eggs simply went to the fastest clicker.

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