AP: 1 line of non-Holiday during Holidays

[danicast]

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

I honestly do not see any harm in displaying one less row of holidays that the AP population does not want at the moment.

Half dozen people is definitely NOT the "AP population". So far I see very few support to this suggestion.

 

So you are OK with no-one on a mobile device being able to see them.

 

WHY do you mind, danicast ? What difference will it make to you ? Please explain - you are displaying what feels like a very selfish attitude and that doesn't sound like you...

 

I have no idea how the game works on mobile, I only play in my computer so I have no opinion to give about mobile.

 

People asked what difference does it make to my gamestyle. It's simple: I like to feel immersed in DC events. I love how there are special threads, special links (to the event activities) in the scroll, special badges and the wall of eggs in the AP. I NEVER hunt in the AP because I don't collect lineaged dragons except for rares and prizes, I only collect CBs, so the holidays are the ONLY occasion in the WHOLE year when I hunt in the AP. I wait days and days for the wall, I stalk the AP waiting for the holiday wall because my connection sucks, I have coordination issues so hunting in the AP for a holiday egg when there is just a few eggs is a frustrating nightmare to me, it means a lot of clicks that leads to nothing, I spend hours doing that to get 2 or 3 eggs. The wall is the perfect opportunity to me to be immersed in the festivities and to hunt nice lineaged holiday eggs. I love those walls. SO I don't want to hurt the wall in any sense because to someone who have such a hard time hunting like me, the holiday wall means an opportunity to get second gens and other nice lineaged holiday dragons.

I know I'm not the only one. A lot of people stalk the AP waiting for the wall.

Edited February 16, 2015 by danicast

[CNR4806]

Half dozen people is definitely NOT the "AP population". So far I see very few support to this suggestion.

When I speak of the "AP Population", I mean the people actually sitting in the AP during the holiday, not this forum thread. And I wrote absolutely nothing regarding whether the AP population supports the suggestion. Stop twisting my words.

 

Do I really have to repeat all over again how a holiday wall is created? On a second thought I'll just quote myself to save you some scrolling up and me a lot of typing:

... I seriously do not see where the "people grabbing more holidays" comes from.

 

A holiday wall exists for various reasons but ultimately it boils down to this: an excess of holiday eggs which doesn't have enough demand to clear it quickly enough. If a holiday wall is happening, it means that absolutely no one is having trouble picking up holiday eggs.

Edited February 16, 2015 by CNR4806

[Fuzzbucket]

Half dozen people is definitely NOT the "AP population". So far I see very few support to this suggestion.

Actually - I have just gone through this thread.

 

Of the people who have posted, there are 4 who don't care, one whose position isn't clear, 7 against (including Mondat, who has recanted a bit) - and 48 in favour. So I don't think that holds up. The LARGE majority in this thread are very much in favour of a single line of non-holiday eggs.

 

People asked what difference does it make to my gamestyle. It's simple: I like to feel immersed in DC events. I love how there are special threads, special links (to the event activities) in the scroll, special badges and the wall of eggs in the AP. I NEVER hunt in the AP because I don't collect lineaged dragons except for rares and prizes, I only collect CBs, so the holidays are the ONLY occasion in the WHOLE year when I hunt in the AP. I wait days and days for the wall, I stalk the AP waiting for the holiday wall because my connection sucks, I have coordination issues so hunting in the AP for a holiday egg when there is just a few eggs is a frustrating nightmare to me, it means a lot of clicks that leads to nothing, I spend hours doing that to get 2 or 3 eggs. The wall is the perfect opportunity to me to be immersed in the festivities and to hunt nice lineaged holiday eggs. I love those walls. SO I don't want to hurt the wall in any sense because to someone who have such a hard time hunting like me, the holiday wall means an opportunity to get second gens and other nice lineaged holiday dragons.

I know I'm not the only one. A lot of people stalk the AP waiting for the wall.

You'd still have a wall, with the bottom row different - that's all.

Edited February 16, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[danicast]

That's why I said I will agree with the suggestion if a 6th line is added. The current wall have 5 lines, I want to keep 5 lines of holiday eggs during the festivities. One entire line makes a lot of difference when you have a slow computer, poor skills and bad sight, which is my case.

[Fuzzbucket]

That's why I said I will agree with the suggestion if a 6th line is added. The current wall have 5 lines, I want to keep 5 lines of holiday eggs during the festivities. One entire line makes a lot of difference when you have a slow computer, poor skills and bad sight, which is my case.

I am truly sorry you have difficulties - but that would in fact knock out anyone on any mobile device.

[Alectrona]

@Danicast, and anyone else who is worried about this idea harming the holiday wall: the way I understand it, by changing the bottom row to a line of non-holidays, the holiday wall will actually last longer, as it will take longer to clear the backlog. Thus, you can immerse yourself in glorious holiday eggs for a larger proportion of the duration of the holiday and you'll also have more opportunities to be online at the same time as a wall.

 

Having said that, as someone who doesn't enjoy the holiday wall so much perhaps I'm overlooking some part of the appeal that will be harmed by changing the bottom row? If so, please do let me know

[danicast]

I am truly sorry you have difficulties - but that would in fact knock out anyone on any mobile device.

Then I think people would have to live with the holiday wall for a couple of days of year. It's not that hard to wait some days in the whole year to hunt caveblockers. There are a lot of other things that they can do meanwhile.

[Jazeki]

Then I think people would have to live with the holiday wall for a couple of days of year. It's not that hard to wait some days in the whole year to hunt caveblockers. There are a lot of other things that they can do meanwhile.

That's contingent upon whether or not the users choose or have the ability to do those other things. With a three-day holiday drop, they cannot hunt the cave for non-holiday dragons. With a wall, they can't hunt non-holiday eggs either. The person could breed if they want to or trade if they want to. That's about it. That's two things, not "a lot of things." And there aren't just cave blockers in the AP.

[olympe]

I am truly sorry you have difficulties - but that would in fact knock out anyone on any mobile device.

Not if that non-holiday row would be put on top of the rest...

[cyradis4]

Not if that non-holiday row would be put on top of the rest...

Which since the Holidays are the *focus* of the site during those *3 weeks* would really irritate me and many others who want the Holidays. Far more people want the Holidays than want those low time commons. And while I'll happily support something that doesn't cause harm to the large majority, having the line at the top would create lots of problems for those who want Holidays.

 

So, no. I'd want this at the bottom, where it won't affect the Holiday hunters which have just 1 week a year to grab each set of Holidays.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[olympe]

*shrugs* We can't make everyone happy, obviously. Maybe we need a vertical column on the right instead? /shot

[cyradis4]

Hahahahah, changing the last column probably wouldn't have any effect on Holiday hunters. But I think it all depends on what TJ thinks is easiest.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[AnanoKimi]

@danicast Replacing the bottom line wouldnt affect hunting in the least. The wall would still be the same, its simply all about how much of it is displayed. As CNR explains here very simply, even if the wall is 6 strong its matter of 30 shown, 30 in backlog. If this idea is implemented then its 24 shown and 36 in back log. So you would still have majority of the AP to your self. I don't see how this replaced line would cause an issue.

 

The excess (ie. stuff that nobody wants at the moment) holidays do not vanish. There would still be 4 rows of holidays sitting there looking like the unwanted junk that they are.

 

Whether a line is reserved for regular eggs or not does not change the supply of holiday eggs. If there are 60 holiday eggs in the AP, it is only a matter of 30 displayed + 30 backlog or 24 displayed + 36 backlog. It does not magically kill the undisplayed backlog eggs.

 

Also your being immersed in the holiday season. I think we have plenty of ways to feel that way, taking over the AP for a simple sensation of "I want to be as surrounded by holiday as I can" seems a tad selfish and underminds the real issue. I don't think one less line of red and pink eggs will make the holiday spirit any weaker. It won't make the link at the top of your scroll plain or disappear, it won't make the eggs any harder to catch, it wont make the holidays ugly or change their appearance, so really this suggestion doesn't take anything away from the holiday happenings except for one line during a holiday wall in the AP.

 

So really all those points made are a kind of moot.

[olympe]

Actually, this isn't quite accurate. If you have trouble catching due to crappy connection, bad reflexes, bad eyesight or other ailments, having 30 eggs to choose from makes a difference.

 

If there's a holiday wall, it seems that most people hover over one of the first few spots or one of the last few eggs. The rest are randomly divided. Let's assume that people tend to hover over the first three and last three eggs. In a holiday wall of 30, this means 24 eggs that hardly anybody hovers over. 24 eggs a slow player has a good chance of catching. (The more eggs there are, the higher the chance that nobody will have clicked it yet.) However, in a wall of 24, that leaves "only" 18 eggs for a slow player to catch. (I suck at explaining this.)

 

In any case, one row less is a bit of an impediment. But I still think that the pros outweigh the cons.

[danicast]

Actually, this isn't quite accurate. If you have trouble catching due to crappy connection, bad reflexes, bad eyesight or other ailments, having 30 eggs to choose from makes a difference.

 

If there's a holiday wall, it seems that most people hover over one of the first few spots or one of the last few eggs. The rest are randomly divided. Let's assume that people tend to hover over the first three and last three eggs. In a holiday wall of 30, this means 24 eggs that hardly anybody hovers over. 24 eggs a slow player has a good chance of catching. (The more eggs there are, the higher the chance that nobody will have clicked it yet.) However, in a wall of 24, that leaves "only" 18 eggs for a slow player to catch. (I suck at explaining this.)

 

In any case, one row less is a bit of an impediment. But I still think that the pros outweigh the cons.

Oh, I'm glad that someone understands the problem.

Based in my experience hunting the holiday wall, the first 2 lines are quite useless for people like me because most people seem to focus their hunting in these lines, when I usually try to click on the first 2 lines I get that message that the egg was already caught by someone else. I never managed to grab an egg from the first 2 lines. I focus my hunting in the last 3 lines because the chances are higher there. If you eliminate one of these last lines you will leave me with only 2 real lines of holidays to hunt. That's why I said that the only way that I support this suggestion is if adds a 6th line to the AP. I saw many people saying things like "nobody wants these holidays" or "the wall looks like nobody is hunting" but that's not true. I hunted my last 5 val eggs in the last day of breeding and there was 180 people hunting in the AP at that moment. If there wasn't a wall I would have no chance to grab nice eggs because the first vals that I hunted in a normal AP with only one line of holidays in the previous days gave me hours of hunting, trying and failing before I could catch something nice.

[FiveSix]

Eggs first appear on the bottom right corner - if you focus your search there you don't just have a better chance of catching a good egg you get 'first choice' essentially. Moving that bottom right corner up a line wont change anything - things will still move in and out of it at the same speed as ever.

[danicast]

Eggs first appear on the bottom right corner - if you focus your search there you don't just have a better chance of catching a good egg you get 'first choice' essentially. Moving that bottom right corner up a line wont change anything - things will still move in and out of it at the same speed as ever.

In my case, the position that you are suggesting means that someone will catch the egg before me every single time and I will get nothing. Everybody clicks on the first 2 lines and in the bottom corner. The best place to hunt is the middle of the 3 bottom lines.

I have the hardest time trying to catch eggs in release of new dragons, I never try in the first hours because I know I can't compete with faster people, I always hunt at least 12 hours after the initial release because of that.

The holiday season is the same: when the AP have only one line of holidays or even less, I have no chance. (and when the cave with the new eggs is filled with people I have no chance either, I got my new vals in the night of the first day of release).

That's why the 5 lines are such a big deal for me. The 5 lines allow that people with slow computers, slow connections and poor skills to have happy holidays.

Edited February 16, 2015 by danicast

[FiveSix]

Ah, sorry when you said first I thought you meant the top.

 

I wonder would just two non-holiday eggs bother people? Or even one - once they get down below 4 days people will always pick them up anyway, so it wont jam long even on the messiest Deep Sea you ever saw.

Edited February 16, 2015 by ObsessedWithCats

[SkylerFarrier]

Then I think people would have to live with the holiday wall for a couple of days of year. It's not that hard to wait some days in the whole year to hunt caveblockers. There are a lot of other things that they can do meanwhile.

People appear to be forgetting that the other problem with the wall (which fortunately for AP lovers and unfortunately for Holiday collectors did not happen this Valentines) is that eggs die while the wall is there for any noticeable period of time.

 

For those who want to be "immersed" in the DC experience, shouldn't that be taken into account? I myself feel bad whenever I see a dead egg in a hatchery, whether it was from a Neglected experiment or deliberate.

 

I wonder would just two non-holiday eggs bother people? Or even one - once they get down below 4 days people will always pick them up anyway, so it wont jam long even on the messiest Deep Sea you ever saw.

Except then players would have to almost constantly refresh just to have a chance at the egg. By the time the image loads it would already be gone. I do not support this option.

[danicast]

I'll give a detailed example: I got a pretty 2nd gen rosebud from rosebud x sweetling so I wanted to get a nice sweetling 2nd gen to make a couple and breed in the next valentine. I start to hunt in the middle of the valentine wall and after 18 eggs I finally got a sweetling from val09 x sweetling. It was hard to get that egg because most of sweetlings were appearing in the first 2 lines and most of the eggs in the wall were arsani and heartseeker with some rosebuds in the middle. There were very few sweetlings in the wall. I had to keep clicking, getting the egg, checking the line, abandoning and repeat till I finally got the sweetling that I wanted. Many of the eggs were longer lines. I know that most of owners of great lines breed their dragons in the first days but I'm unable to compete in the first days of breeding, there is too much people in the AP and very few eggs. I'm glad I managed to get the eggs I wanted, I even got a 4th gen rosebud from alt rosebud (I got 2, actually and gave one to my best friend). So yes, the 5 rows wall makes a huge difference in the holiday for me. I'm sure that there is more people in the same situation.

 

People appear to be forgetting that the other problem with the wall (which fortunately for AP lovers and unfortunately for Holiday collectors did not happen this Valentines) is that eggs die while the wall is there for any noticeable period of time.

 

I think this is a different problem and have nothing to do with the holidays. Maybe TJ can implement a "non dying eggs" to all eggs that are not available to be catch.

Edited February 16, 2015 by danicast

[AnanoKimi]

I can sympathise but I mean like Olympe said, the pros outweight the cons. It may not be 3 lines to hunt with but its still two lines to work with as opposed to some AP hunters who really have nothing to work with while the wall is there hiding the low time eggs they want.

 

The only other option is that during holiday season, the holiday eggs overtake the AP, with no normal eggs showing when there are no eggs, maybe a message stating "No holiday eggs yet" or something. Somewhere near the top there would be a link to a 'secret cave' where all the regual AP eggs are at. That way if a wall happens, it happens on its own terms and the AP eggs are free to happen elsewhere. Once the holiday eggs are gone and breeding is over TJ can switch it back to normal.

[danicast]

I can sympathise but I mean like Olympe said, the pros outweight the cons. It may not be 3 lines to hunt with but its still two lines to work with as opposed to some AP hunters who really have nothing to work with while the wall is there hiding the low time eggs they want.

 

The only other option is that during holiday season, the holiday eggs overtake the AP, with no normal eggs showing when there are no eggs, maybe a message stating "No holiday eggs yet" or something. Somewhere near the top there would be a link to a 'secret cave' where all the regual AP eggs are at. That way if a wall happens, it happens on its own terms and the AP eggs are free to happen elsewhere. Once the holiday eggs are gone and breeding is over TJ can switch it back to normal.

Actually no, the pros dont outweight the cons if the suggestion means completely ruin the holidays for part of the players, like me. It's much easier to cultivate patience for 2 days till the holiday wall disappear (it only lasted for 10 hours in this last valentine) and then return to the normal programation. It's also more generous because you still can hunt the ap the rest of the year.

 

But I like the suggestion of a separate AP for commons.

[AnanoKimi]

Actually no, the pros dont outweight the cons if the suggestion means completely ruin the holidays for part of the players, like me. It's much easier to cultivate patience for 2 days till the holiday wall disappear (it only lasted for 10 hours in this last valentine) and then return to the normal programation. It's also more generous because you still can hunt the ap the rest of the year.

 

But I like the suggestion of a separate AP for commons.

Not unless its for 4 days, then longer the more holidays there are to breed. I mean. really. Eventually people will have to sit away from the AP for a week or so, and some of the eggs bred to the AP would just die out. Users would have to hold of on breeding certain dragons whose babies are meant to go to the AP for longer and longer the more holiday dragons there are to breed.

 

I've seen many who breed their prize fails, lineage fails, metal fails, metals themselves, high gen and semi low gen prizes, and the such to the AP for others to pick up. Saying "Just wait" is also imposing on their play styles by telling them they have to wait to continue breeding and catching because the AP is so full of holiday eggs no one has anymore room for or desire to grab.

 

That's why that AP line is important. As many have said, this wall is nothing compared to the walls to come especially during halloween and christmas. What you saw this years valentine, its gonna double next year, and double the year after that. This isn't a matter of "Oh its small now, lets leave it be" its more of a matter of "Its only gonna get worse, lets make a fix now before we start to loose users during this time of the year."

 

The second suggestion I made may also work but it all depends on public demand. If they would rather not deal with an extra cave for the holiday then the repurposed bottom AP line will probably be the one to get more attention and more push for addition.

Edited February 16, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[SkylerFarrier]

I think this is a different problem and have nothing to do with the holidays. Maybe TJ can implement a "non dying eggs" to all eggs that are not available to be catch.

Did you read the entire way through the thread? The initial problem was eggs dying due to running out of time behind the Holiday wall. If there was a row of non-Holiday eggs, with the lowest time appearing as it would in a normal sort, people would be able to grab, Incuhatch, repeat.

 

I put the relevant part of your quote in bold. What you said is exactly what people have been suggesting. However, this method of implementation would mean a lot of extra coding, to "protect" eggs from dying.

Then a separate person(s?) commented that they also enjoy hunting non-Holidays in the AP and that is the direction this discussion has now headed. I would merely like to point out to all the "against idea" people that there's multiple reasons for wanting the non-Holiday row.

 

 

Actually no, the pros dont outweight the cons if the suggestion means completely ruin the holidays for part of the players, like me. It's much easier to cultivate patience for 2 days till the holiday wall disappear (it only lasted for 10 hours in this last valentine) and then return to the normal programation. It's also more generous because you still can hunt the ap the rest of the year.

How would changing a single line at the bottom, leaving 60 slots for Holiday eggs, "completely ruin" your Holiday? As is, it "completely ruins" the time that the Holiday is in effect for a lot of other people.

 

Actually - I have just gone through this thread.

Of the people who have posted, there are 4 who don't care, one whose position isn't clear, 7 against (including Mondat, who has recanted a bit) - and 48 in favour.  So I don't think that holds up. The LARGE majority in this thread are very much in favour of a single line of non-holiday eggs.

See? It's cramping more playstyles as-is, yet I haven't seen a valid reason why this change would hurt other playstyles.

Edited February 16, 2015 by SkylerFarrier

[Jazeki]

Dani, none of these suggestions ruin the holidays for people with slow connections, disabilities, or lineage goals. They have at least seven days to hunt the AP. It might be a little hard in the first few days due to the eggs just starting to drop, but as the breeding wears on, more options are available. They can also go to the forums for help if they have an account or get help from another DC player by some other means (for example users on other gaming/ web sites that frequent a DC-specific thread or if they have real-life friends/family that play with them).

 

The only "ruin" that is associated with this suggestion is the low-time eggs that die behind the more frequent and longer lasting holiday walls. And the eggs that die are not just commons.