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angelicdragonpuppy

Require Signing of Artist Agreement

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Over all the main agreement is for what is going to be displayed on the site.

If one sketches for a dragon sprite, they also get on-site credit. They need to sign the agreement every bit as much as the one who does the sprites.

 

This suggestion seems very unwieldy to me. TJ would end up with dozens of signed forms from people who never end up having dragons released.

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If one sketches for a dragon sprite, they also get on-site credit. They need to sign the agreement every bit as much as the one who does the sprites.

 

This suggestion seems very unwieldy to me. TJ would end up with dozens of signed forms from people who never end up having dragons released.

That's why I suggested they be stored either in a secondary site email account, on the forums themselves, or that people simply have to agree before entering DR at all.

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If this is a somewhat personal thing, could you work this out before starting a sprite with someone on your own? IE, have it stated up front that if you are co-authoring a sprite, if the person disappears they forfeit the rights to the, erm, survivor? Kinda like a Will xd.png Granted, if several persons disappear we would have to search some Despis homes or some such.

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That's why I suggested they be stored either in a secondary site email account, on the forums themselves, or that people simply have to agree before entering DR at all.

 

 

That would certainly be the most sensible route, if it were made plain up front simply as part of the criteria that any dragon having been created for site use and left would be deemed as being available for potential Release, if not stored separately, even if some or all of the people credited were not available at time of selection.

 

Anyone deciding against their dragon being used would need to move/pull it prior to leaving the site, although I would think that if in the event of anything unfortunate occurring to a conceptor/artist that they'd prefer their work to live on after them, so to speak.

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If this is a somewhat personal thing, could you work this out before starting a sprite with someone on your own? IE, have it stated up front that if you are co-authoring a sprite, if the person disappears they forfeit the rights to the, erm, survivor? Kinda like a Will xd.png Granted, if several persons disappear we would have to search some Despis homes or some such.

Lol that despis part.

 

I believe a if a sprite is made in a private setting, like is the case for holidays, then as soon as the sprite is done, tj would have to prompt them that before consideration the agreement be signed. That is saying that those spriting it haven't already had to fill out the agreement prior to this to work on public dragon requests.

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I'm in favour of this suggestion in general. The exact execution of it doesn't matter much to me, but just scrolling through the list there are so many names that just haven't been around forever... and some on sprites that are quite nice, too.

 

I do think overall I prefer the agreement needing to be signed before even getting access to DR, so anything done in there is pretty much good to go. That also covers conceptors, since they'd need to have signed it already before even getting access.

 

That leaves secretly made sprites uncovered, but that could be solved/somewhat helped by making a thread with some guidelines and requirements for holiday and secret sprites, which includes the need to have signed the agreement. Sprites sent in by people who haven't signed would simply not be considered.

 

If that makes sense... my thoughts are a bit all over the place at the moment, so if I'm not making any sense feel free to ignore xd.png

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You don't need to worry about sprites made in secret. TJ is on top of that.

 

Conceptors don't currently get in-cave credit so there's no need for them to sign anything. Because they don't sign anything I don't agree with the idea of keeping people out who haven't signed. There are some clever, creative ideas in there posted by people with no art skills to speak of.

 

I understand the desire to have all the sprites that are moved to completed be covered so they can be used if an artist disappears, but everything you're proposing limits people's freedom to try to learn to sprite a DC dragon or requires TJ to keep track of a bunch of paperwork he's not likely to ever need. If they must be "verified artists that are active", aka in-cave artists, (because who else is going to be considered verified?) then how are you ever going to get new artists for the site? I suppose people could apply to be verified, but then you go back to that issue of TJ having to keep track of reams of signed agreements that are never needed. The number of people who try working in dragon requests is large. The percentage of those people who ever get a sprite accepted for use in-cave is tiny.

 

What we have now works ok. Yes, there are some nice things that are hanging around the Completed List whose artists are missing, so it doesn't appear they can be used. There are lots of new concepts coming up though. I don't think we're in danger of running out of sprites that TJ can use.

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Fiona if you weren't talking to me then disregard this, but:

 

- I don't see how having people sign the form before accessing DR limits freedom? Seriously it's just anything you work on that you both intend for the completed list and that DOES reach the completed list can be used by the site (provided you don't later revoke the rights to it). People can sign in and then learn how to sprite in DR without their stuff without it ever reaching the completed list, and for conceptors it'd just be an "lol ok" form to sign, since they wouldn't be planning on doing final art (or, if they are, then well--they fall under the artist category).

 

- While I do understand how this could bury TJ in forms, that's why I'm suggesting alternative ways. If everyone sends to a kind of 'database' email that TJ can check only when he's chosen a concept, or even if they forms can be kept on the forums, he'd only have to look when he was interested. Alternately TJ could just check every concept as it's finished and rejected the unwanteds, or you reboot DR so that everyone who wants to get in has to sign the form, so being there to begin with = you gave explicit permission, just as joining the game means you agreed to the terms. These two would both require more work (TJ having to check finished things more frequently, putting a temporary halt to DR), but I think the final outcome would be worth it. Not everyone has a permanently active spriter to rely on, it's a shame if people with great ideas who find a spriter willing to help later have to watch the concept wither and die simply because that spriter left later on. sad.gif

 

 

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Another point I would like to make is in terms of the discomfort of DC sprite artists. If users had to become 'verified' spriters, it does not mean that it will limit anyone to learn. Learning is required before becoming verified and as such people will be able to freely practice with personal sprites. One they feel their skill level is up to par they can apply to become official spriters for the site and move on to doing request concepts.

 

It was an alternate option to being swamped in forms every time someone decided to create a concept. In all truth only the sprites are the ones released and those who sketch must first give consent to their sketched becoming sprites. Either idea works and regardless would require an alternate email to be able to hold and easily search through the signed agreements. I don't feel that either option limits users from trying to practice and create.

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I think there are still problems with your ideas though. I may simply be misunderstanding you, but what I took from the suggestions here is one way you could see this working is that in order to have any access to DR you have to sign the form. -- that would bury TJ in forms he'd never use. Alternately it could discourage someone who is unsure of their abilities or knows they need a lot of practice because they would think they'd have to be good enough for release before they could "deserve" access. Right now DR is open access. It encourages people to come up with ideas and artwork. It acts as kind of an incubator for new artists to get used to the art style DC uses and see if they want to work toward a release.

 

I'm not saying there isn't something of a problem now with concepts whose artists have left. I just don't think applying the "fix" to DR is the way to do that, as you have it right now.

 

 

I would suggest maybe having people sign before something can be moved to Completed might work better. It doesn't completely eliminate the issue of TJ ending up with a bunch of signed forms he isn't going to use, but it would be somewhat less of them.

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I would suggest maybe having people sign before something can be moved to Completed might work better. It doesn't completely eliminate the issue of TJ ending up with a bunch of signed forms he isn't going to use, but it would be somewhat less of them.

That works. Thats a much better version of this.

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I think there are still problems with your ideas though. I may simply be misunderstanding you, but what I took from the suggestions here is one way you could see this working is that in order to have any access to DR you have to sign the form. -- that would bury TJ in forms he'd never use. Alternately it could discourage someone who is unsure of their abilities or knows they need a lot of practice because they would think they'd have to be good enough for release before they could "deserve" access. Right now DR is open access. It encourages people to come up with ideas and artwork. It acts as kind of an incubator for new artists to get used to the art style DC uses and see if they want to work toward a release.

 

I'm not saying there isn't something of a problem now with concepts whose artists have left. I just don't think applying the "fix" to DR is the way to do that, as you have it right now.

 

 

I would suggest maybe having people sign before something can be moved to Completed might work better. It doesn't completely eliminate the issue of TJ ending up with a bunch of signed forms he isn't going to use, but it would be somewhat less of them.

^ Highly agreed with all the points in this post.

 

I am really, really not for making anyone who wants to view or post in DR have to sign a form. Not only for the issues mentioned in Fi's post, but there are a large amount of non-artists in DR as well. Having them sign a form to gain access to DR just doesn't make sense at all. As well, it could turn away people who are going to help crit because the seriousness of having to sign a form just to do that is kinda scary and because there are people who may not be able to easily sign an online form and because not everyone may feel comfortable signing such a form for many other reasons.

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If you guys don't like the current suggestions, do you have any ideas for alternatives? I really think something needs to be done about this--I didn't even think about how people going inactive could impact the stuff I've sketched for until quite some time after I started doing so, I'd like to save others the same misery. Maybe have a help sticky pinned in DR stating it's important to have them saved somewhere they can be accessed later or something, iunno.

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If you guys don't like the current suggestions, do you have any ideas for alternatives? I really think something needs to be done about this--I didn't even think about how people going inactive could impact the stuff I've sketched for until quite some time after I started doing so, I'd like to save others the same misery. Maybe have a help sticky pinned in DR stating it's important to have them saved somewhere they can be accessed later or something, iunno.

Well, actually, the first idea that came to my mind but didn't bother to write yet is:

the Conceptor for the Dragon, aka. the thread OP, could collect those Agreements for his own sake. And after all, if the conceptor goes away, would it be ok to release such a dragon without his notice? So I don't see much trouble with that way.

 

So, if you want this, do it yourself for YOUR sake. But don't require it from everyone else.

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I would suggest maybe having people sign before something can be moved to Completed might work better. It doesn't completely eliminate the issue of TJ ending up with a bunch of signed forms he isn't going to use, but it would be somewhat less of them.

Gonna requite Fiona on this because this sounds like the most sensible alternative. Instead of signing to enter DR, have them sign before it enter the completed list. Your spriter is gone? Then it cannot be completed because without their consent it cannot be put onto the site. Its a bit harsh and disheartening but its better to know that due to lack of consent you can't get this done, as opposed to complete it, get hyped, have your spriter disappear, and then sit there wondering if there will ever be a way to get this on the site.

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What exactly is in the spriter's agreement? Would it be possible to simply have a slimmed down preliminary version of it that people would agree to in order to access Dragon Requests? Just a button to press, sort of like you do when agreeing to the Dragon Cave rules when setting up.

 

By accessing this forum, you provide Dragon Cave full rights to implement your suggestions, ideas, and art.  Agreement legally permits Dragon Cave to implementing creatures and art from this subforum into the Dragon Cave site with proper credits, but does not limit your rights to use your personal art and ideas outside of Dragon Cave.  This agreement with Dragon Cave can be withdrawn at any time prior to implementation in the cave (or signing of an official artists' agreement), by removing the information from this forum and contacting the site owner.

 

Maybe something like that?

Obviously, rewording could be done, but I think something like that is nice and loose?

"Hey! If you have a good idea, and then disappear, we're still allowed to use it anyway, but you're still allowed to use it, too!"

 

If I recall, part of the artist agreement is to prevent the same sprites from appearing somewhere else? If art was developed as a team, and at least one person signed the artists' agreement, then it still couldn't be used as-is on a different site because not all artists involved would be permitted to agree to that external usage.

 

 

Something loose enough to (1) provide very basic protection for the site, and (2) not specifically exclude those making suggestions rather than art. This way anyone could get into the forum by clicking the agreement, still allowing non-artists to contribute breed suggestions and very valuable input towards the development of those breeds, but sprites can still be an option should someone go inactive.

 

Just a thought? I don't know if it's feasible or not, but it seemed to me a better direction than trying to collect all the agreements for artists that may or may not be implemented in the cave?

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Agreement

When a dragon request is selected to be used in the cave, the artists are contacted to sign an Artist Agreement, a formality that ensures that proper permission is obtained before any art is used. You can preview a copy of the agreement here. By submitting art to this section, you agree to the following:

 

    Exclusivity All art submitted to Dragon Cave (posting to this section counts as "submitting") may not be submitted for usage or already in use on any other site, until it has been the art has been officially rejected for use on Dragon Cave. This includes, but is not limited to, other adoptables sites.

    Ownership By posting art to this section, you certify that you own the art or have been given permission to submit the art on the behalf of the artist. The original artist maintains ownership of the art

 

There is already a rule in place about not posting art made here to other sites for usage. People aren't required to sign anything but should be aware of this rule. Through the stickied rules post in DR you can access a copy of the artists' agreement to read for yourself what it protects the site from, here.

 

Basically the artist avows that they have the right to the artwork and that it won't be used elsewhere. There is also something in there that protects the site from artists leaving and taking their artwork with them.

 

Again, I don't think that changing DR to require signing anything is the way to go. I'm not too sure on having them sign anything before it's moved to Completed either, but that way at least there would be no problems using something if TJ selects it.

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Well its better to have the artists sign off on the sprite before its moved to completed since they are still active and all during that time.

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I very much support this. Everyone who worked on the dragon for the goal of having it released would I would think be willing to sign the forms when the dragon is completed. It would save the trouble of trying to get a hold of someone who may not be there at a future date.

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Also, as someone who is currently help sprite a dragon concept, I would agree that maybe signing before a concept is moved to completed would be a good idea. Mods would be given access to emailing artsits and asking them to fill out the form. Once filled it could be emailed to the provided storage email TJ could set up for these forms and the dragon concept could be moved to the completed section.

 

That would ensure that lets say after I finish this concept I get hurt or no longer frequent the site, my permission is given for my sprite to be used as a release as opposed to TJ having to hunt me down. This also means that should my contact information change (e-mail, number, social media) the form is still available as proof that I gave legal and concious consent to my artwork being used. This would otherwise not be possible should I finish the sprite and lets say die of a heart attack.

 

Things happen and contact information can change so it is better to have a consent form early before anything happens as opposed to later after the artist has had some need to change info or cease certain methods of contact for whatever reason.

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Just wanted to voice my support for this suggestion.

 

I usually end up quite busy during the end-of-the-year transition, and even worse, this year I've found that I'm quite busy doing some artwork and things for another site. I also don't tend to check my email often enough, so being able to do this *first* would be awesome!

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What exactly is in the spriter's agreement? Would it be possible to simply have a slimmed down preliminary version of it that people would agree to in order to access Dragon Requests? Just a button to press, sort of like you do when agreeing to the Dragon Cave rules when setting up.

Just want to point out that it's linked in the DR Section Rules linked at the top of DR.

 

~

 

I think it might benefit the thread to have TJ's post there as well as the other suggestions, such as alternative times to request the signage.

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I need so much something like this. My first concept ever is almost finished and I'm already fearing that the awesome artists who made my dragons won't play anymore when TJ will ask them to relase the Dracanthrope. It's all in their hands xd.png

Edited by Naruhina_94

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100% Support this. It's simply common sense in my humble opinion. tongue.gifsmile.gif

Edited by Cireth

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