Require Signing of Artist Agreement

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I've been working in dragon requests for quite a few years now, and while this has been awesome, it's also led to some unforeseen difficulties. Namely: certain spriters who were involved in the process going inactive between completion and now, obviously negating their ability to sign the artist's agreement and enable the concept to be released if TJ ever shows interest in it.

 

In order to prevent such cases, can DR start requiring people to collect the artist's agreement forms of anyone who does work that'll be included in the final sprites? I was originally thinking of just lumping them all in one post within the thread, but since that could open the doors to deceit or just revealing private information, maybe mods and TJ could set up a new forum account or email where they could be sent to instead. That way they'll be around when needed, but TJ won't get buried in agreement forms for things he might never use, either.

 

If people change their minds about agreeing they can cancel said agreement any time before the sprite is actually released, as per usual. The suggestion of this thread isn't to trap artists, it's to keep those who are presumably interested in submitting stuff to DC (due to their working on the projects to begin with) from unintentionally foiling themselves and their co-artists due to vanishing before the form is signed. I know if this had been in place from the start, I'd be a lot less worried about some of my old concepts than I am now. >___<

Edited January 25, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Naruhina_94]

I support this suggestion, I've thought about it, too. I think it makes future DC art more "secure", too. It should prevents amazing sprites to disappear

[Syphoneira]

Certainly makes sense to me!

 

If (worst case scenario, obviously,) anything awful happened to the artist, surely they'd like to think that their work would live on and not be wasted.

[RecycledHeart]

So wait does that mean all those really old completed requests will never get released because their spriter went inactive?

[AnanoKimi]

So wait does that mean all those really old completed requests will never get released because their spriter went inactive?

Possibly. I support this idea, this ensures that should anything cause the permanent absence of an artist from the site and/or forum, they are able to give permission to have their art used in future releases.

[RecycledHeart]

Possibly. I support this idea, this ensures that should anything cause the permanent absence of an artist from the site and/or forum, they are able to give permission to have their art used in future releases.

That's a shame. Yeah I support this because too many really good dragons will never get released because of that happening.

[dragontamer44722]

I agree! There are many dragons in teh completed list and in teh request thread that look amazing but are forever stuck since their creators are gone, and thats a real shame. Not too usre anything could be done about those dragons now if this came into effect, but it could certainly help future requests.

[AnanoKimi]

That's a shame. Yeah I support this because too many really good dragons will never get released because of that happening.

It really is a shame because it is always safer to tread safely and not release anything that cannot be explicitly consented by the artist that made it. If TJ released a dragon from an artist that left and they return to see it used by the site without their permission TJ could look at a lawsuit unless he removed the image.

 

So yeah.

[Phenri]

I have sadly never helped much in the creating any dragon request (been thinking about giving it a shot tho) but it saddens me if some of those dragons were to never be released because their creator lost interest in DC

 

I support this as long as it is clear to the artists, because as we have seen in the past (Frills and brigt pink) some artists might want to remove their creation from the cave again for whatever reason they might have.

[Naruhina_94]

It really is a shame because it is always safer to tread safely and not release anything that cannot be explicitly consented by the artist that made it. If TJ released a dragon from an artist that left and they return to see it used by the site without their permission TJ could look at a lawsuit unless he removed the image.

 

So yeah.

Would he have problems even if the sprite would be totally redone?

I would like if the Conceptor is also included on this signing agreement, I've never understood why they're often forgotten when it comes to the dragon's rights.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Speaking as someone who, admittedly, has very legal expertise, I still think doing something like that would be like dancing through a minefield, Naruhina. People could sue for having their work used for profit (this site does make money, after all) without permission, regardless of apologies and later removal of said work. Now, a good case could be made that they intended their art to be used (as it was made on site with the implicit assumption that it'd be usable), but it could still open up a hellish world of lawsuits and lawyers that I really don't think anyone would like to see TJ have to deal with.

[dragontamer44722]

In order to avoid problems I dont' think Tj would even touch dragons whose creators have been gone and aren't contactable no matter what to avoid stuff that could put the site in danger. He has to consider all possiblities so he would play it safe in order to maintain the site.

 

That being said I'm sure there are concepts there whose creators are still around so its not like all the dragons are goners. (like mine)

[AnanoKimi]

Speaking as someone who, admittedly, has very legal expertise, I still think doing something like that would be like dancing through a minefield, Naruhina. People could sue for having their work used for profit (this site does make money, after all) without permission, regardless of apologies and later removal of said work. Now, a good case could be made that they intended their art to be used (as it was made on site with the implicit assumption that it'd be usable), but it could still open up a hellish world of lawsuits and lawyers that I really don't think anyone would like to see TJ have to deal with.

Technically.... TJ doesn't make money off the site per-say because most of the money he makes are from Donations and the store. The store only features images that both the spriter of the dragon and the artist who drew said merchandise image have fully agreed to. So TJ could not be sued in terms of profit from their sprites should he use them without direct consent of the spriter.

 

What he could be sued for is for the use of an unauthorized image in a public form. As it stands the sprites are personal property, meaning that the creator must give consent if they are to be used in any form that is not private or personal use of the sprite creator. Its like having a picture of yourself. You can take all the selfies you want on your phone, they are yours and private. Should one of them be leaked out or should lets say Facebook somehow hack in and gain access to these images and use them somewhere on their social site then you could sue. It was a private photo not meant to be used by any public media or site. NOW if you upload these pictures to facebook, facebook then has partial rights to redistribute the image or show it as they like according to the privacy settings.

 

Something along the lines of that. Donations don't count as profit made directly via the site. Store profits only count if the art and images used are consented by both the sprite artist and the product image designer. So TJ could be sued for profit if a sprite from an artist that is no longer active is redrawn as art and then slapped on a mug or t-shirt and then they sold. Both TJ and the artist who redrew it for the use on the merchandise could be in big trouble should the sprite artist every see it and recognize it is their sprite.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The site makes its profits mainly from ad revenue, though, which (presumably) is gained due to people coming to play the game because of the pretty dragons.

[AnanoKimi]

Touche, I guess not direct profit but they could sue as it being used as a form of advertisement that would entice people to visit the site thus causing revenue to come in from the ads.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Honestly regardless of the details we both agree on the point: using art without 100% consent could go VERY badly for the site and thus for us!

[AnanoKimi]

Indeed, indeed~ X3

[Vhale]

/support for peace of mind.

Though legally one would think consent to be implicit because, it's submitted to a list from whence dragons are selected for release. There'd be no reason to submit to such a thing if one was unsure.

[AnanoKimi]

Some artist can change their mind months or years after submission, especially if the dragon has not been released yet. It is better to be safe than sorry no matter the circumstance or reason.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

So, I just had a thought, based off Vhale's comment:

 

What if the terms of accessing dragon requests were changed so that, before being able to access the area, you have to give consent that any artwork you create there for the intent of being used by the site can be used for the site (with it also explicitly spelled out that you can later remove consent, as per the terms spelled out in the artists agreement)? That would save people the hassle of having to deal with chasing down people to submit forms or having to figure out where they would all be stored.

Edited January 26, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[AnanoKimi]

So, I just had a thought, based off Vhale's comment:

 

What if the terms of accessing dragon requests were changed so that, before being able to access the area, you have to give consent that any artwork you create there for the intent of being used by the site can be used for the site (with it also explicitly spelled out that you can later remove consent, as per the terms spelled out in the artists agreement)? That would save people the hassle of having to deal with chasing down people to submit forms or having to figure out where they would all be stored.

Signed forms could be kept on any personal computer in a file. Thats not a problem. But either or works.

[TJ09]

It's mostly a matter of paperwork.

 

The set of all people who have ever meaningfully contributed to a sprite for DC is much higher than set set of all people whose work has been accepted for use on DC. And the rate at which the former set grows is orders of magnitude larger than the growth rate of the latter.

 

In theory it'd be a better state to be in, but in practice...

[AnanoKimi]

It's mostly a matter of paperwork.

 

The set of all people who have ever meaningfully contributed to a sprite for DC is much higher than set set of all people whose work has been accepted for use on DC. And the rate at which the former set grows is orders of magnitude larger than the growth rate of the latter.

 

In theory it'd be a better state to be in, but in practice...

The only other thing you could do is have a set of verified artists that are active as of now. Anyone that wishes to work on a sprite whether it be their own concept or someone else's would have to apply to be a spriter, sign the artist agreement, and then they can get to work as they please. Should they ever decide to leave the site or become inactive, the agreement is there, all it takes is a quick email and the agreement is null and sprites are removed.

 

This would mean though that only those specified people would be the only ones able to fully work on sprites within the dragon requests area. Other users who would like to work on it would have to first go through applying and signing. This could cause some friction but in the long run it will mean that those sprites will be accessible to the site for future release.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Note that sketchers who sketch for the final sprites would have to sign off as well, plus anyone who does significant redlines that get used for the final versions. :3

 

Personally I don't think it'd be a big stumbling block. People have to sign that artist's agreement to get their work used anyway; the only difference is when exactly the form is signed. The only other complication is if anyone has qualms with the conditions, but I'd much rather such people get found BEFORE the effort and time goes into making a sprite than after. Imagine working closely with someone on and off for a year, finishing a beautiful sprite, and then they look at the artist's agreement for the first time and refuse to sign it. Ouch! ;___;

Edited January 26, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[AnanoKimi]

Note that sketchers who sketch for the final sprites would have to sign off as well, plus anyone who does significant redlines that get used for the final versions. :3

 

Personally I don't think it'd be a big stumbling block. People have to sign that artist's agreement to get their work used anyway; the only difference is when exactly the form is signed. The only other complication is if anyone has qualms with the conditions, but I'd much rather such people get found BEFORE the effort and time goes into making a sprite than after. Imagine working closely with someone on and off for a year, finishing a beautiful sprite, and then they look at the artist's agreement for the first time and refuse to sign it. Ouch! ;___;

I don't think sketches should require that so long as there is explicit agreement posted along when a sketch is posted. Either way when a sketch is chosen, permission is asked for its use to be sprited. Over all the main agreement is for what is going to be displayed on the site.

 

I agree. I would rather see these people officially found and signed than having to chase them down after the effort is put in.