Make Crossposting in Trades less Likely

[whitebaron]

This is a followup from the prize trading thread discussion.

As it stands, we are able to post the same trades to at least 3-4 threads any given time. If there's a new prize trading thread, it might even get upped to 5.

 

This kind of posting behaviour creates various kinds of problems:

 

1) People desperately trying to sell their most expensive stuff only for what it's worth, will not clutter only one thread, but multiples with all the same offer and requests.

Some do this on the same time, some do this on different timings. It does not help, though, as topics get drowned quickly by even more people doing so.

 

2) It creates the illusion of "I can only ever trade if I have type X of dragon". Since type X (say a 2g gold, i could trade rare, metallic, even gen, dragon trading and probably more places I dont even know about) is most of the time, well, 2nd gen metals or low gen prizes, it really discourages people from still coming to the threads and even reading them.

 

3) It encreases post count without very good reason - I am not allowed to bump a trade before 24 hours have passed, but I could repost every 2 hours in various threads, then go asleep, start anew with the bumps.

 

 

Thus, I'd like to either propose a more firm distinction between the threads. THE RTC has more than 50% metallic posts, and in the dragon trading thread, its very hard to find anything but rares and up.

 

Or, make it so that reposts of the same thing count as bump.

[CrystalSetsuna]

sorry, i'm not really feeling this. sometimes you need exposure because some people, like myself, will only check a particular thread if i'm looking for something specific.

 

like if i need something traded NOW before it grows up, i'll usually post it in two to three threads. and usually, it'll get traded quickly.

[whitebaron]

sorry, i'm not really feeling this. sometimes you need exposure because some people, like myself, will only check a particular thread if i'm looking for something specific.

 

like if i need something traded NOW before it grows up, i'll usually post it in two to three threads. and usually, it'll get traded quickly.

so, because sometimes you want more exposure because you are late in trading, makes it so that people should be allowed to crosspost all the time?

 

If you have, say a shimmer that needs to be traded, don't you think people interested in shimmers wouldn't check only the rare or metallic or shimmer thread, to whereever it is limited to?

[Prince_Xanthius]

I agree there needs to be firmer distinctions, but I think a couple of repostings are fine. At the moment however there is too much overlap.

 

A 3G EG Gold can go in Metal, Rare (I think? can't remember the gen restriction), General, and even gen trading. Which at the moment is allowed and so fair enough - you want as much exposure as possible for your trades. But it's not helpful.

 

I think what really needs to happen is restrictions on what cannot be posted in the general thread. Counting repost as a bump I DO NOT like.

 

I personally would go for something like this:

Prize Trading

Rare+Metal Trading (combine current threads; NO prizes) - if there is a prize thread, then there are only 6 dragon types (3 of which are coppers) that are metal so I don't really think they need their own thread.

General (for everything that is NOT rare or metal or prizes)

Specific Lineage threads (EG, SC, CB etc each with their own threads)

 

Everything would be postable in 2 threads only - the 'general' for their breed, and any lineage thread. It would make it much easier to know where to look to find what you wanted, and would be less crowded with other things

 

Edit: Thinking about it, I am not averse to Rare and Metal being separated if people want, but if there is a metal thread, then they CANNOT be posted in Rare. Basically my last paragraph is the point, whatever other threads we make.

 

Edit 2: The point is to limit where any given trade DOES fit, in order to make it possible for people to only have to check one place to find what they are looking for. If anything that would give higher exposure to your trade as far as USEFUL exposure goes. Exposing your 2G silver to somebody looking for a CB trio is not helpful.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[ZzelaBusya]

I don't agree with this suggestion.

It's not that big of an issue to check several pages in a trading thread to find out if there's anything that might interest you, it doesn't take a lot of time to read back a day or so in any of the existing threads, even the most cluttered Dragon Trading. So I don't see a problem in that.

 

I don't mind reading through similar posts made by people in different threads, and I actively post like that myself. I believe users should be allowed to do so, as it guarantees higher exposure and makes trading easier.

 

Like CrystalSetsuna said above, there are users who tend to only check certain threads and not look through others. I'd very much prefer to simply post my trades wherever they fit so that people see them to having to adapt, guess and pick where it'd be best to do so hoping that they'll be seen there, which I cannot predict.

 

No support.

[Oddsoxdi]

I currently have a 4gen Even PB Silver I'm looking for a blood swap for. I've put it in Even Gens and the Metallic thread, simply because the trading threads are so overrun with Prizes that nobody sees 'plain' Metals. Tomorrow morning if I have no offers, I'll try posting it in others. So I guess I'm not behind this either.

[SolarCat]

I agree there needs to be firmer distinctions, but I think a couple of repostings are fine. At the moment however there is too much overlap

 

A 3G EG Gold can go in Metal, Rare (I think? can't remember the gen restriction), General, and even gen trading. Which at the moment is allowed and so fair enough - you want as much exposure as possible for your trades. But it's not helpful.

 

I think what really needs to happen is restrictions on what cannot be posted in the general thread.

 

I personally would go for something like this:

Prize Trading

Rare+Metal Trading (combine current threads; NO prizes) - if there is a prize thread, then there are only 6 dragon types (3 of which are coppers) that are metal so I don't really think they need their own thread.

General (for everything that is NOT rare or metal or prizes)

Specific Lineage threads (EG, SC, CB etc each with their own threads)

 

Everything would be postable in 2 threads only - the 'general' for their breed, and any lineage thread. It would make it much easier to know where to look to find what you wanted, and would be less crowded with other things

This suggestion sounds good to me.

 

Disallowing cross-posting entirely is counter-productive, I think, because there are different categories that trades could go into - breed, lineage, code, stage.

 

Defining the breed threads to disallow cross-posting is all that is needed.

 

If someone has a third even-gen Gold Prizefail with the code 'SORRY' they should be able to post it in the Rare/Metallic thread, the Even-Gen thread, the code-word thread, and the prizekin gifting/trading because that egg will appeal to those four "markets" - the gold hunters, the even-gen lovers, the prizekin collectors, and the code collectors.

 

This would still keep the trade out of threads where people are hoping to find a CB Nightglory mate or a low-time Pink hatchling for an emergency influence or a Gilded Bloodscale for scroll goals, so that it's easier for people to find what they are looking for.

[whitebaron]

Edit 2: The point is to limit where any given trade DOES fit, in order to make it possible for people to only have to check one place to find what they are looking for. If anything that would give higher exposure to your trade as far as USEFUL exposure goes. Exposing your 2G silver to somebody looking for a CB trio is not helpful.

I have to quote this, because it very nicely fits into the reasoning why I created this thread.

 

Showing to someone who wants a CB Uncommon: "Have 7 cb golds, want 2g holly" is not only hindering them, but actively furthering the notion that unless you have cb metalligcs or low gen prizes, you better not trade at all.

[Iside]

I only partially agree with the suggestion.

 

It is true that people tend to repeat their offers in various thread to have a better exposure - I do that myself - and if what you can offer in the various thread was more specific treads would not be so flooded by the same offers.

 

But

1) We must remember that there are people for all around the world - that means all time zones. If I post my offer in only one thread at 9 in the morning European time probably people from America won't see it because when they wake up / are back home from school my message will be 3 pages behind. And people tend to only read 1-2 pages of offers. If I can post my offer in 3 different thread, each time only once every 24h, I can use three different times of the day so that also people from the opposite part of the world may see it

 

2) Many times we don't have only prizes or only rares or only commons to offer (maybe I have one prize, one paper and one pretty lineaged white), so the general trade thread should stay as it is now, to allow people to post everything they have in one post, with the possibility to mix them.

 

I hope I was able to explain myself: English is not my mother language and I may do some mistakes when trying to explain what I think.

[whitebaron]

I never once mentioned that the general trade thread should be more limited. it's just part of the reason WHY people only read the last one or two pages, because you read the same stuff in almost all the threads!

 

i'm really glad prizes will be removed from the metallic trade center, but it still leaves the rare trade center open to abuse, and the general - well, it can't be helped, but at least you would not see in every thread, the same three last posts.

[MessengerDragon]

If someone has a 3rd EG silver with a cool code, why shouldn't they be allowed to post in the EG, the metallic, and the code trading threads? After all, if someone wants to find a cool code, they'll go to oddball code trading centre. If another person wants an EG, they'll check the EG thread, and if they want a metallic they'll check the metallic thread. Now imagine if there was a person interested in it as an EG, a person interested in it as a metallic and a person who was interested in it for the code. They'd each check the relevant thread, see the trade and make an offer. If cross-posting wasn't allowed, and the person posted in, say, the oddball code trading centre. The other two people wouldn't see it because it wasn't in the metallic, or the EG threads. This way the person would only get one offer, instead of three.

 

I don't support making cross-posting count as a bump.

[pinkgothic]

3) It increases post count without very good reason - I am not allowed to bump a trade before 24 hours have passed, but I could repost every 2 hours in various threads, then go asleep, start anew with the bumps.

I honestly don't find your other two arguments convincing - I cross-post because I don't want someone who is looking for the stuff I'm offering to overlook it, not because I'm concerned I won't get rid of it. Never had a problem getting rid of something so far even when I didn't have time to crosspost... but then, I do (with few exceptions) deliberately underprice my stuff, so I guess there's that.

 

Anyway, I'd definitely super enjoy it if I could do that without artificially inflating my post count in the process.

 

I'm in favour of clearer distinctions between the threads, where possible.

 

For example, as much as I personally am very fond of the RTC (and honestly very biased in its favour, since I helped 'moderate' the thread for a while), I don't think it's strictly necessary. It's a great multi-purpose thread, but that is basically what it is. Roughly speaking, it's metallics (up to a certain generation), caveborns (some of them), and 2G alts.

 

I'd probably be OK with a universe where there was a 2G hybrid/alt trading thread to mirror the caveborn thread, but no RTC. Or even just a universe without the RTC, though I might get concerned that 2G alt blacks and vines might be a bit difficult to find in the backlog of the evengen thread.

[Fuzzbucket]

This suggestion sounds good to me.

 

Disallowing cross-posting entirely is counter-productive, I think, because there are different categories that trades could go into - breed, lineage, code, stage.

 

Defining the breed threads to disallow cross-posting is all that is needed.

 

If someone has a third even-gen Gold Prizefail with the code 'SORRY' they should be able to post it in the Rare/Metallic thread, the Even-Gen thread, the code-word thread, and the prizekin gifting/trading because that egg will appeal to those four "markets" - the gold hunters, the even-gen lovers, the prizekin collectors, and the code collectors.

 

This would still keep the trade out of threads where people are hoping to find a CB Nightglory mate or a low-time Pink hatchling for an emergency influence or a Gilded Bloodscale for scroll goals, so that it's easier for people to find what they are looking for.

I'm with this. More rules will only lead to more reports, and so on.

[CrystalSetsuna]

so, because sometimes you want more exposure because you are late in trading, makes it so that people should be allowed to crosspost all the time?

 

If you have, say a shimmer that needs to be traded, don't you think people interested in shimmers wouldn't check only the rare or metallic or shimmer thread, to whereever  it is limited to?

well, thank you for the assumption. however it's wrong. there are times where people will need a specific gender or color, and lets face it, some dragons take some time and a lot of views to show their gender.

 

if you have a nebula with one hour who is not the right color or gender you needed, which you couldn't influence for whatever reason. then you want to try your hardest to get what you want on your scroll, which also happens to help someone who may need the same thing but is not under such time restraints.

 

i'm also one of those people who actually does go back three or four pages on any given thread, just to see what other people have posted. so, i'm sorry, but i still don't feel any love for this idea. now i've expressed my opinion and hopefully made my point, so i'll leave it at that.

Edited January 22, 2015 by CrystalSetsuna

[whitebaron]

If someone has a 3rd EG silver with a cool code, why shouldn't they be allowed to post in the EG, the metallic, and the code trading threads? After all, if someone wants to find a cool code, they'll go to oddball code trading centre. If another person wants an EG, they'll check the EG thread, and if they want a metallic they'll check the metallic thread. Now imagine if there was a person interested in it as an EG, a person interested in it as a metallic and a person who was interested in it for the code. They'd each check the relevant thread, see the trade and make an offer. If cross-posting wasn't allowed, and the person posted in, say, the oddball code trading centre. The other two people wouldn't see it because it wasn't in the metallic, or the EG threads. This way the person would only get one offer, instead of three.

 

I don't support making cross-posting count as a bump.

Problem is, they could additionally post it in the rare trading and general trading as well. Once we have an additional prize thread, cool code prizes could go to 6(!) Threads, and yes, there are people out there who would do so.

[Fuzzbucket]

Once we have an additional prize thread....

We do have. So is this all over now ?

Edited January 22, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[Syphoneira]

If someone is looking, in example, for even-gen Holiday mates and can't come up with any exciting offers, but is willing to combine, say, their 4th or 5th gen Tinsel with a CB something and a pretty even-gen, although offered on separate links in case of room issues, and with a request to PM for combining - where do they post?

 

Probably most of the players on the site have longer-lineaged (5th or 6th gen) Prize dragons which somebody out there with whatever common of whatever lineage someone is looking for may consider worth breeding a dragon to get - but I doubt they'd be picking through a thread *created predominately to concentrate trades of low-gen Prizes in one area* to see any such trade offer.

 

For those suggesting this, please bear in mind that the more the average player who does not have low-gen Prizes to trade is restricted and lumped in with those trading 2nd gens, the greater the degree of disparity increases.

 

Such a scenario could virtually kill trading for those with 4th gens able to breed only 5th gens, wedged between 2nd and 3rd gen postings - never mind those having only 5th or 6th gens to breed dragons which someone might want but then have little no likelihood of seeing and offering for in the specialized threads they'd most likely check.

 

Please don't forget the vast number of people on DC who don't/can't trade in the more rarefied atmospheres, who may not have much option in what they can produce to offer for in trade, and those who might like to have such trades available somewhere they might feel able to trade themselves in order to see them.

 

We need one unrestricted Trade thread, and still have one remaining - please leave SOME option open for us ALL .

 

 

Edit: whitebaron, just to mention, some people HAVE suggested that the general Trade thread be restricted, and if people don't make these points for consideration, these people, and others reading their points without seeing others, may not think of the repercussions.

 

Too many people seem to be simply fed up with the whole Prize thing and trying to get it a little more out of their faces, but the rest of us don't want to get knocked flying right out the game as a result, lol.

 

 

Re-edit: to add that people with LESS tempting offers and/or more specialized 'asks' for specific lineages have been cross-posting in case the very few people who might potentially be both interested and able to trade - and happen to be online and looking while the post is still visible - might actually see their post and think that they do have this dragon to breed that lineage and might be able to use some or all of the mixed offer.

 

This is much less likely to occur when limited to one thread, and impossible when it can be placed in none.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Prince_Xanthius]

If someone is looking, in example, for even-gen Holiday mates and can't come up with any exciting offers, but is willing to combine, say, their 4th or 5th gen Tinsel with a CB something and a pretty even-gen, although offered on separate links in case of room issues, and with a request to PM for combining - where do they post?

I'd say post each separately in their relevant threads, with a note you can combine with the other things, PM to discuss. Possibly both the CB and the EG could be posted in the 'general no rare/prize' thread, as well as individually in the CB thread and the EG thread

 

Probably most of the players on the site have longer-lineaged (5th or 6th gen) Prize dragons which somebody out there with whatever common of whatever lineage someone is looking for may consider worth breeding a dragon to get - but I doubt they'd be picking through a thread *created predominately to concentrate trades of low-gen Prizes in one area* to see any such trade offer.

Part of me would like to limit the prize thread to <5 gen or something for this reason, and after that putting it in the 'general' thread. But this idea did not seem popular on the raffle thread, as it enforces the idea that low gens are 'better'. And anyway, if someone is looking for a high gen prize to breed an egg for, then surely knowing all the prize haves are in that thread would make it easier to pick through than 5 or 6 that they would currently look for? People who are browsing randomly for things they might like are still welcome to look in all the threads, this suggestion is to make it easier when you are looking for something specific. At the moment you have to wade through multiple threads to see if any one is offering it.

 

I am not in favour of limiting WANTS in ANY of the trading threads, which means you can still ask for higher gen prizes for commons or whatever. People can browse for things they;d like and happen to be able to get. None of the special lineage threads (like Special Release/Breeding, Gifting etc) are affected. I don't think the effect would be that detrimental to anyone

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say I frequently browse back 4-5 pages on a trade thread (using CTRL+F for what I want), as I am on mostly in the evenings (currently have time during the day but that will change) which is late at night/early morning for most players => about 11pm - 4am Cave Time. The threads are slow moving, and many of the trades are still up from several pages ago. And by limiting the number of trades that can be posted in a given thread, any trades would stay visible in 2-3 pages for a longer period.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[Fiona]

I'm in favor of limiting what can be offered in threads so that there are less places to post the exact same trade. I don't believe that the degree of cross-posting that exists now increases exposure significantly. The result is that the threads move so fast that trades get buried. Some of you are willing to dig back through many pages to review the whole day's offers, but not everyone is. I believe many are overwhelmed by that many posts to wade through. I know I personally don't go back more than two pages.

 

I don't think the general trading thread should be restricted. I don't believe that a rule should be made to disallow cross-posting. I think the best way to handle this is to narrow the definitions of what can be offered in a thread. There's now a thread just for prize dragons. I think prize dragons should now be disallowed for the metallic thread and the rare thread. I think metallics should be disallowed for the rare trading thread or the two - the rare trading thread and the metallic thread, should be combined.

 

The even gens thread should be left as it is, allowing most 2nd gens and all even gens dragons. Currently 2nd gen metals, prizes and avatars are disallowed there. The codes thread should be left alone, the gender swap thread should be left alone... and so on. We have a number of specialty trading threads. Things are normally only going to fit in one of those. Those should be fine.

[sheppardkid]

I'm in favor of limiting what can be offered in threads so that there are less places to post the exact same trade. I don't believe that the degree of cross-posting that exists now increases exposure significantly. The result is that the threads move so fast that trades get buried. Some of you are willing to dig back through many pages to review the whole day's offers, but not everyone is. I believe many are overwhelmed by that many posts to wade through. I know I personally don't go back more than two pages.

 

I don't think the general trading thread should be restricted. I don't believe that a rule should be made to disallow cross-posting. I think the best way to handle this is to narrow the definitions of what can be offered in a thread. There's now a thread just for prize dragons. I think prize dragons should now be disallowed for the metallic thread and the rare thread. I think metallics should be disallowed for the rare trading thread or the two - the rare trading thread and the metallic thread, should be combined.

 

The even gens thread should be left as it is, allowing most 2nd gens and all even gens dragons. Currently 2nd gen metals, prizes and avatars are disallowed there. The codes thread should be left alone, the gender swap thread should be left alone... and so on. We have a number of specialty trading threads. Things are normally only going to fit in one of those. Those should be fine.

I agree with a vast majority of this. The only thing I would have an issue with is disallowing metallics in the RTC and vice versa. As such, I think that the bolded would be the best way to go about things in regards to the RTC and Metallic Trade Center.

 

The only thing I'd like to see change in the Even Gens Thread is allowing all 2nd gens since those are essentially considered even gen. But that is also my personal view so not everyone may see 2nd gens as even gen and more like staircase or something.

[DragonLady86]

 

 

 

 

 

3) It encreases post count without very good reason - I am not allowed to bump a trade before 24 hours have passed, but I could repost every 2 hours in various threads, then go asleep, start anew with the bumps.

 

 

Isn't this why users are supposed to delete the post once the trade goes through? Or am I the only one that does that? Deleted posts don't add to post count and no longer add clutter to the threads.

[Vhale]

I know I tend to delete my trade posts. I don't like clicking on trade links to find they don't work anymore.

 

But this suggestion would not change the number of cross posts. Instead of one post repeated three times with

 

Trade A: 2g Gold

Trade B: CB Trio

Trade C: Nebula Hatchie wrong alt

 

There would be three posts with

 

Trade A: 2g Gold

 

Trade A: CB Trio

 

Trade A: Nebula Hatchie

 

Is it better to remove x Number of eggs from the post? Eh. The post itself takes up the same amount of space, basically.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Vhale

[Syphoneira]

I know I tend to delete my trade posts. I don't like clicking on trade links to find they don't work anymore.

 

But this suggestion would not change the number of cross posts. Instead of one post repeated three times with

 

Trade A: 2g Gold

Trade B: CB Trio

Trade C: Nebula Hatchie wrong alt

 

There would be three posts with

 

Trade A: 2g Gold

 

Trade A: CB Trio

 

Trade A: Nebula Hatchie

 

Is it better to remove x Number of eggs from the post? Eh. The post itself takes up the same amount of space, basically.

 

 

 

Thank you for bringing this up - I'd been wondering about it but kept forgetting to include it in any comments.

[Prince_Xanthius]

I know I tend to delete my trade posts. I don't like clicking on trade links to find they don't work anymore.

 

But this suggestion would not change the number of cross posts. Instead of one post repeated three times with

 

Trade A: 2g Gold

Trade B: CB Trio

Trade C: Nebula Hatchie wrong alt

 

There would be three posts with

 

Trade A: 2g Gold

 

Trade A: CB Trio

 

Trade A: Nebula Hatchie

 

Is it better to remove x Number of eggs from the post? Eh. The post itself takes up the same amount of space, basically.

Actually all three of those would be postable in the rare/metal thread. Or all in Rare, and the gold also in metal if the 2 remain seperate. And then the specialist lineage/hatchy threads. If all 3 were in different threads (as I assume you were going for), then no it wouldn't happen to reduce thread size IN THIS CASE. But most trades posted contain a single HAVE, and a large number of the rest are all metal or all common/uncommon. Trades as mixed as your example are unusual. Currently all trades can get posted in 3-4 of the main threads (as opposed to the niche EG/SC/CB/code/prizekin threads), and bloat up those threads unnecessarily. That's what we want to stop.

 

The point is to reduce lots of repostings of the same trade so that a given thread is not over-bloated with trades that people looking on that thread are not looking for. It makes it easier to find people who have something you want.

 

Edit: Also, your example 1 vs example 2 is a decrease of cross posting, even though it is not a decrease of total number of posts

Edited January 23, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[Fiona]

That example wouldn't change the number of trade posts, though at the moment I don't think there are many threads you can post all three of those things together besides the general thread. Just the rares thread I think.

 

What bumps up the number of posts in thread is people posting the exact same post in 3 or 4 or more threads. An example would be:

Have: 3rd gen even Silver Tinsel

Want: <whatever>

 

Until those were banned from the metals thread those could be posted in 4 threads: the metals thread, the rare trading thread, the even gens thread and the general thread. Plus, depending on it it had anything else interesting, like a cool code, maybe one more. The exact same post, in 4 places. Now, of course, substitute the new prize trading thread for the metallics thread. Still 4 places. And a number of people post them in all 4 at once.

 

So, say I have a 2nd gen silver egg from my shadow walker alts to trade. I go look in the rare trades thread to see what's being offered. Hmm. Well, that even gen silver tinsel might be nice but it's not exactly my preference of lineages. Let's see what's in the prize thread. Uh... same thing. Ok, maybe there's something different in the rares thread. Nope, same offer. Ok, last place to check, the even gens thread. Urg.

 

If it was just one or two posts like that it would be ok, but it's not. It's frustrating for me to see the same posts in all of these places because then I have to go digging for something that's different. Usually I just end up making my own trade post because even if there were someone offering something I want that wants what I have I can't find it quickly.

 

 

I don't want to make it against the rules to cross post. I just want there to be more specific places to post things so cross posting doesn't happen as much. Because when I go to a different thread to check out offers I want to see something different, not the same trades again and again.

 

I know that would inconvenience people who trade a variety of things very frequently. I'm sorry about that, but if there are less posts per thread they'll move more slowly and then your individual trades will get more exposure anyway. That would also cut down on bumping posts because if your post is still in the last couple pages there's not much reason to bump.