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TJ09

2015-01-15 - Raffle Status

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Of course the prize winners are not all greedy, entitled or elitist. They're just ordinary people who had a very fortunate thing happen to them.

 

And sometimes when people have very fortunate things happen to them in their excitement over it they make choices that later they realize led them down a road they regret. So it also can come down to, What is intended isn't always what actually happens.

 

I think a google spreadsheet helping those who are interested in some bloodswaps with other winners to keep track of who they've swapped with it a fine idea. It probably shouldn't be accessible to anyone who isn't part of the swapping. Also, other winners shouldn't feel pressured to join (though no one at this point was suggesting they would be) I was just a little concerned that over their excitement of setting up such bloodswaps they might get carried away and not think clearly about how many such swaps they were committing themselves to. Having a place to keep track is great.

That is a good point as well.

 

I can even see how newly minted prize owners having the support of those who have been dealing with that for a while might be helpful and a good thing. Someone to say " I know it is exciting BUT here are some pitfalls you should know about and avoid," might be a real godsend to those folks, actually.

Edited by Silverswift

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May I ask a question? Approximately how many shinies can a Prize dragon breed within one year?

Edited by ishlia

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I think a google spreadsheet helping those who are interested in some bloodswaps with other winners to keep track of who they've swapped with it a fine idea.

 

I think this is a really good idea. It might help people from becoming totally overwhelmed.

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I don't know, maybe I'm just weird as hell, but Prize winners having a thread to trade with other Prize winners doesn't...bother me. It doesn't seem unreasonable or 'greedy' to me. At all. When I think of it, it just seems logical if they want to do blood swaps among themselves. I wouldn't have a problem with it, honestly. I don't care what Prize winners do. I'm just not one of these people around here that feels any need to worry about it, or keep up with them and what they're doing. I know people in this thread have won and mentioned it, but if someone put a million in front of me right now and asked me to name 3 of them, I couldn't do it.

 

The way I see it, Prize winners will do both, sooner or later...blood swap with other winners and gift/trade with the public. When they do these things is on them. I don't lose sleep at night sweating whether or not some prize winner is going to open a list or not. I don't ever expect to have a 2nd gen, I don't pursue them or winners, and if there's never a 2nd gen on my scroll, I really, honestly don't feel like I'm losing anything or missing anything.

 

Prize winners can do what they want. Personally, I couldn't care less what they do. smile.gif *shrug*

For the most part I agree with you. Except that I do have one 2nd gen and would love to have at least one more, or at very least a "fail" to breed with the one 2nd gen I have now. wink.gif But I don't see swaps among winners as preventing that from happening, either. If anything prevents it, it will be my lack of assertiveness in doing what is necessary to get what I want.

 

So, winners, breed your dragons however you please and trade with whomever you please! You have a very special dragon which should be yours to enjoy.

 

I do hope you will heed the warnings that others are giving you about making long lists. I have had some experience with having breeding lists for some of my dragons and they can quickly suck the fun out of breeding if things don't go well. sad.gif

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May I ask a question? Approximately how many shinies can a Prize dragon breed within one year?

Depends a *lot* on what they're bred to. This is Luckiest Catch's progeny list after ~2 years of breeding (I just counted; she averages ~15 shinies a year). I would say I've been pretty fortunate with her, but then I cycle mates if one isn't working and thanks to my scroll goals (16 CBs of everything), I have a good pool of "back ups" to try if one doesn't work out. Others have had more trouble squeezing shinies from their Prize.

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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A thread solely for bloodswaps? Absolutely not.

 

Even though I suggested something similar myself earlier at some point (My suggestion was to make a separate thread for 2nd gen TRADES, not bloodswaps), I decided it was a bad idea in hindsight. And this is making it for 2nd gen bloodswaps, which is even worse.

 

For one thing, it *IS* an exclusive club for only prize winners to post in. Anyone else looking in there have nothing to offer, just bad feeling over not 'belonging'. Taking it off DC is the best way to do this, the least of which no one else is hassling you for them.

 

There's plenty of prize winners who set up bloodswaps through PMs, I've heard conversations and the like about this. For the most part, no one's complaining about that. There were tons of those last year. No problem.

 

Having a thread for only those 600-odd people? A problem. The number is probably a lot less than 600 for people who'd use the thread, even. I bet there's a lot of prize winners who don't HAVE forum accounts, which means they might be ones who don't ever breed their prizes. (I personally think it's a shame because their prizes might as well just be a badge, but it's also their choice)

 

But yeah, don't make a thread that would effectively rub every non-winner's nose in the fact that they didn't win, even if that isn't the intent. That would really make it an us vs. them thing.

Edited by zaverxi

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May I ask a question? Approximately how many shinies can a Prize dragon breed within one year?

Ideally? 52. tongue.gif But that NEVER happens.

 

There's too many variables to really give a good answer, such as mates (since breeding with common mates means less chance to breed a shiny), and other people's breeding (because the breed ratios come into play with your breeding "luck").

 

In my experience, between 5-10 per year, and I'd err on the low side of that, but you CANNOT be sure. Some people are lucky and may get 12, others will only manage 2.

 

Estimating these things is pretty much impossible, so your best bet really is to assume "NOT MANY" and then plan on that.

 

Do you have a gold or silver dragon? Try breeding that every week, and its success breeding shinies will be around the same as the prizewinners, now that that are so many prizes out "in the wild" (because the number of bred prize dragons, regardless of their lineage, factors in too!)

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For the most part I agree with you. Except that I do have one 2nd gen and would love to have at least one more, or at very least a "fail" to breed with the one 2nd gen I have now. wink.gif But I don't see swaps among winners as preventing that from happening, either. If anything prevents it, it will be my lack of assertiveness in doing what is necessary to get what I want.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that there was anything at all wrong with wanting 2nd gen Prizes...there isn't anything wrong with that at all. I understand it. But I don't think people should worry over things that haven't even happened yet. Nobody knows the plans of each individual Prize winner and there are 600 of them. If even half of their dragons breed true, that's still a lot of Prize dragons. There's nothing wrong with Prize winners wanting to do some blood swaps first for their own breeding projects. That's understandable, too. If that's the case then people will simply have to be patient.

 

For one thing, it *IS* an exclusive club for only prize winners to post in. Anyone else looking in there have nothing to offer, just bad feeling over not 'belonging'.

 

I wouldn't care. I wouldn't feel bad at all, in any way, shape or form.

 

But yeah, don't make a thread that would effectively rub every non-winner's nose in the fact that they didn't win,

 

Personally, that's not how I'd see it. It's kind of sad that some would.

 

It's all about perception I guess.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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I would think a prize trading thread is inevitable. People have already started suggestions to ban prizes out of normal trade threads. And going by the rare x rare trade threads, those don't allow over third gens. It's the way the trade forum is already set up, really. I'd say set it up but allow 3rd gens. That gives you a little wiggle room on breeding even gens anyway and possible head starts.

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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that there was anything at all wrong with wanting 2nd gen Prizes...there isn't anything wrong with that at all. I understand it. But I don't think people should worry over things that haven't even happened yet. Nobody knows the plans of each individual Prize winner and there are 600 of them. If even half of their dragons breed true, that's still a lot of Prize dragons. There's nothing wrong with Prize winners wanting to do some blood swaps first for their own breeding projects. That's understandable, too. If that's the case then people will simply have to be patient.

And I didn't mean to imply that you were implying that. laugh.gif We agree in essence.

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I would think a prize trading thread is inevitable. People have already started suggestions to ban prizes out of normal trade threads. And going by the rare x rare trade threads, those don't allow over third gens. It's the way the trade forum is already set up, really. I'd say set it up but allow 3rd gens. That gives you a little wiggle room on breeding even gens anyway and possible head starts.

I think that suggestion was to remove ALL Prize trades from the RTC and MTC threads, though, so that non-Prize trades could get more spotlight (which I completely agree they need). I'm not sure how I'd feel about a thread for 2G trades ONLY. I'm not sure it's really..... necessary?

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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I think that suggestion was to remove ALL Prize trades from the RTC and MTC threads, though, so that non-Prize trades could get more spotlight (which I completely agree they need). I'm not sure how I'd feel about a thread for 2G trades ONLY. I'm not sure it's really..... necessary?

How about a trading thread where all you can post as a HAVE is a 2G prize, but you can ask for anything. Would really help people wanting to trade for a 2G prize wade through all the other posts to find it.

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And I didn't mean to imply that you were implying that.  laugh.gif

 

lmao!

 

 

I would think a prize trading thread is inevitable.

 

Same. And I personally don't see anything evil about it. It's...logical. If they're going to do that, it makes sense, to me anyway, to allow 3rd gens, etc, in there, too. But whatever. I don't have to worry about it and I'm not the one that'll have to deal with it. laugh.gif

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I think that suggestion was to remove ALL Prize trades from the RTC and MTC threads, though, so that non-Prize trades could get more spotlight (which I completely agree they need). I'm not sure how I'd feel about a thread for 2G trades ONLY. I'm not sure it's really..... necessary?

Maybe there could be a trade thread for prizes, also for those more than 3G and EG lineages, to give people the possibility to look specifically for another prize and give another for it. Maybe there's someone trading off a 3G prize for a 4G of a different line, and there already are 3G EGs, so that might open the possibility for blood swaps also concerning those. Or just to trade some nice matching stairsteps (I would for example look for some to build nice arrows... Just because I like the look of them).

But I don't do much trading, so I don't know whether there's demand for that. But if there is a trade thread for rare dragons and one for EGs... Why shouldn't there be one for prizes?

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How about a trading thread where all you can post as a HAVE is a 2G prize, but you can ask for anything. Would really help people wanting to trade for a 2G prize wade through all the other posts to find it.

In theory, fine. In practice, if the majority of wants prove to be same-gen swaps, I can foresee an outcry. I've already seen people huff about the few 2G Prize trades posted on the RTC (people complained when there were no 2G trades offered, then they complain when there ARE), so a thread full of that would, I suspect, just invite trouble.

 

@NightEagle: That very idea is discussed here (the thread name is a bit misleading....)

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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And therin lies the rub... the crux of the whole issue.

 

Are all prize owners greedy, elitist and only interested in trading their 2G babies for  other 2G?

Of course not.

 

Many of them trade for less than that, and many gift their shiny eggs.

 

The trouble IS that there seems tobe a general perception that 2G eggs are insanely valuable, such that about the only thing that you could offer that might get you one is another 2G. Accurate or NOT there is a perception out there that prize owners are MAINLY interested in   prize blood swaps.I get the idea behind this suggestion... a seperate place for such swaps so they won't clutter up the other trade threads and make it hard for people to find what they are looking for and can afford to trade for. ( NOT necessarily a bad idea, I might add) On the other hand, I also get why some people see a danger in it.

 

Prize winners have the RIGHT to do what they want with their eggs... how the rest of us percieve it is another matter.

What is intended isn't ALWAYS what people see.

If I were to get a CB prize I would not just trade 2nd gen prizes for other 2nd gen prizes (not lowing cause I would but that's not the only thing) I would trade it newbies that have 50 or more dragons but not that many rares (like a person with 75 dragons and 5 ice dragons with awful lineages) and I would also trade/give if you just plain ask (I probably will say no if someone offers me a CB gold for the egg thats bred and you just ask) but I would probably give the person the next egg

 

I'm not complaining that I didn't get a CB prize I'm just saying that some of you that think the people that get CB prizes are asses are wrong like I got the first year that shimmers were released and they were extremely rare I got one second gen from Grady when I didn't really get to give a equal value to him only have him two 6th gen tinsels for it.

That's called being nice some people with CB prizes will give you one when you can't really pay them back.

 

I agree with you silverswift because its their dragon, they can't just be told what to with their dragon and but not every person does that anyways so why fight? It seems stupid.

Edited by merkat12

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I think that suggestion was to remove ALL Prize trades from the RTC and MTC threads, though, so that non-Prize trades could get more spotlight (which I completely agree they need). I'm not sure how I'd feel about a thread for 2G trades ONLY. I'm not sure it's really..... necessary?

Well I was thinking 2-3g for anything rather than straight swaps. Necessary? I don't know. But the suggestions also covered the regular dragon trading thread, so if it hit all three there'd be nowhere to post them but the code thread I guess. I think it would be fine for a thread for any and all prize trades, but with how restrictive the other threads are against anything over 3g, I wasn't sure people would let it happen.

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Well I was thinking 2-3g for anything rather than straight swaps. Necessary? I don't know. But the suggestions also covered the regular dragon trading thread, so if it hit all three there'd be nowhere to post them but the code thread I guess. I think it would be fine for a thread for any and all prize trades, but with how restrictive the other threads are against anything over 3g, I wasn't sure people would let it happen.

For the record, I think Prizes should still be allowed in the general trading thread - it's kind of an all-comers, take it as you find it effort anyway. And sure, a Prize-only thread should be Prize haves only (maybe up to 5G?), but the wants could be anything, not just swaps.

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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Well I was thinking 2-3g for anything rather than straight swaps. Necessary? I don't know. But the suggestions also covered the regular dragon trading thread, so if it hit all three there'd be nowhere to post them but the code thread I guess. I think it would be fine for a thread for any and all prize trades, but with how restrictive the other threads are against anything over 3g, I wasn't sure people would let it happen.

ACTUALLY I think that a thread for prizes ... regardless of gen.... might be grand!

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The current DC depression state I'm in is so big that I would be willing to pay 50€ to own a CB prize T-T ...

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In theory, fine. In practice, if the majority of wants prove to be same-gen swaps, I can foresee an outcry. I've already seen people huff about the few 2G Prize trades posted on the RTC (people complained when there were no 2G trades offered, then they complain when there ARE), so a thread full of that would, I suspect, just invite trouble.

 

Well, not to sound rude of course, but...well...wouldn't any beef about it be each individual's own personal problem? Why would it have to be a Prize winner's problem if they want 2nd gen trades? If they want 2nd gen swaps, they want 2nd gen swaps, and that's that. People can't begrudge them that. They're obviously going to want that...they'll want to make lineages, now they have a much better chance to do that and they'll understandably go for it. And who wouldn't? We're all in agreement that Prize winners do as they like...and if they'd like a thread to trade Prize eggs of whatever gen, well, shouldn't they have that option?

 

Just because a thread like that might come into being doesn't mean that Prize winners aren't going to be willing to trade for other things or gift...in fact, I'm sure most of them would be very willing.

 

I'll be honest, if I won a Prize I would want a thread to trade blood swaps where I could easily find others willing to trade Prize eggs. Sure, I'd gift, but I'd look out for number one first and get what I need for myself and my lineages before I did anything else. Call me selfish. At least I'm honest. smile.gif And no, I wouldn't feel guilty at all.

 

ACTUALLY I think that a thread for prizes ... regardless of gen.... might be grand!

 

I agree totally. If I were a winner, I'd want that. Not just 2nd gen prizes, but ALL gens, for convenience sake.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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Of course the prize winners are not all greedy, entitled or elitist. They're just ordinary people who had a very fortunate thing happen to them.

 

And sometimes when people have very fortunate things happen to them in their excitement over it they make choices that later they realize led them down a road they regret. So it also can come down to, What is intended isn't always what actually happens.

 

I think a google spreadsheet helping those who are interested in some bloodswaps with other winners to keep track of who they've swapped with it a fine idea. It probably shouldn't be accessible to anyone who isn't part of the swapping. Also, other winners shouldn't feel pressured to join (though no one at this point was suggesting they would be) I was just a little concerned that over their excitement of setting up such bloodswaps they might get carried away and not think clearly about how many such swaps they were committing themselves to. Having a place to keep track is great.

Yes indeed. Keeping track with a googledoc is fine.

 

But the idea of a winner-exclusive thread grates. A prize trading only thread is something else again - anyone with a prize egg could join in. THAT wouldn't feel like a "superior beings only" thread xd.png

 

I absolutely agree that prize winners aren't greedy beasts. My own 2 gen was a gift out of the blue, and I know of others in the same boat. But setting themselves apart in a thread is divisive. This is a forum open to all of us. Every thread in it. This would be the first thread I had ever seen that excluded the vast majority of players. Not cool sad.gif

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ACTUALLY I think that a thread for prizes ... regardless of gen.... might be grand!

If the thread was for all prizes, regardless of generation, I'm all for this!

 

Honestly I think the larger generations can be just as pretty, and sometimes even more so!

It's about time prizes were appreciated as pretty dragons with fun lineages, rather than some elitist "It-Must-Be-Low-Gen!" thing.

 

If you really want a lower-gen one, try the rare trading thread.

If you're trying to reach your dragon scroll goals and only have two gold shimmers and want 18 more try the trade thread.

 

I'd even go so far to say open it up to Prizekin as well. There are some gorgeous lineages out there incorporating prize dragons in the lineage, and it would be a shame to leave them out. wink.gif But I may be biased on that point.

 

Regardless, if there's going to be a trading thread for prize dragon offspring, I think it needs to be for ALL prize dragon offspring, not just the ones the market has decided are "valuable". That doesn't help improve things at that rate, that just reinforces the things that some of us would love to change. smile.gif

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Honestly I think the larger generations can be just as pretty, and sometimes even more so!

 

Indeed. smile.gif

 

It's about time prizes were appreciated as pretty dragons with fun lineages, rather than some elitist "It-Must-Be-Low-Gen!" thing.

 

Haaaalleluuuujah!! A-freaking-men, baby.

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Haaaalleluuuujah!! A-freaking-men, baby.

Alarmingly, I agree with you wink.gif and with SolarCat

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