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2015-01-15 - Raffle Status

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i suppose (and hope) this kind of thread would be shot down fast as to specific and excluding to many people.

True unsure.gif

That's why i asked. ninja.gif

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Errrm Question.

If i opened up a raffle winners only, 2nd gen, blood swap - topic in the breeding section, will any raffle winners be interested?

If that's not allowed for being too restrictive, maybe those of us interested could get all of our info added to a list? Maybe a Google doc the head person keeps updated?

 

It could be a spreadsheet with a different page for each color/breed combo (Bronze Shimmer, Silver Shimmer, Gold Shimmer, etc) and each user's line could have: forum name (linked to profile), dragon name (linked to lineage), preferred non-prize parents (linked to wiki would be cool but not required), something about trading specifics (list, trade-as-born, etc), and maybe even if their list/PMs are open/closed/check profile for status?

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Errrm Question.

If i opened up a raffle winners only, 2nd gen, blood swap - topic in the breeding section, will any raffle winners be interested?

Certainly, though I've promised a few 2Gs to people already, but it would be a nice thing to keep going. I would certainly love to trade 2Gs.

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If that's not allowed for being too restrictive, maybe those of us interested could get all of our info added to a list? Maybe a Google doc the head person keeps updated?

 

It could be a spreadsheet with a different page for each color/breed combo (Bronze Shimmer, Silver Shimmer, Gold Shimmer, etc) and each user's line could have: forum name (linked to profile), dragon name (linked to lineage), preferred non-prize parents (linked to wiki would be cool but not required), something about trading specifics (list, trade-as-born, etc), and maybe even if their list/PMs are open/closed/check profile for status?

I support this as I really want to start breeding even-gen prize lineages and it'll be rather difficult without knowing other owners' contact info!

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i suppose (and hope) this kind of thread would be shot down fast as to specific and excluding to many people.

I'm afraid I agree. The increased number of prizes this year meant that non-winners might have a better chance of getting low gens - that the joy might be more widely spread. If the winners kind of start to band together to trade among themselves - that will take any improvement away. Prizes have dominated trading for FAR too long.

 

Better for winners to trade and find what they want in the same way as the rest of us.

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I support this as I really want to start breeding even-gen prize lineages and it'll be rather difficult without knowing other owners' contact info!

My inbox is bursting but since I could just delete PMs for this after adding the info I wouldn't mind running it. :3 It would be pretty easy for me since I'm around so much.

 

I've got great ideas for a couple even-gen prize lines that I'd love to make a reality eventually.

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If that's not allowed for being too restrictive, maybe those of us interested could get all of our info added to a list? Maybe a Google doc the head person keeps updated?

 

It could be a spreadsheet with a different page for each color/breed combo (Bronze Shimmer, Silver Shimmer, Gold Shimmer, etc) and each user's line could have: forum name (linked to profile), dragon name (linked to lineage), preferred non-prize parents (linked to wiki would be cool but not required), something about trading specifics (list, trade-as-born, etc), and maybe even if their list/PMs are open/closed/check profile for status?

This is a very good idea.

I would admit, i did write my post beforehand without thinking of it.

But this method sounds more possible.

 

@ Fuzzbucket; True - wait.

 

However, i also have noticed that some winners would like to blood swap.

Also - someone suggested a while back about seeing, even-gen lineages for the prize dragons this year.

I don't know about you, but i like this odd idea and that's why i've wanted to blood swap at the start.

So we can make pretty lineages, step or even-gen, then release them to the public, as well as give out 2nd gen's, if we want to.

 

Then the public can have nice 3rd gen and 2nd gen prize lineages.

Edited by Taryn123

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This is a very good idea.

I would admit, i did write my post beforehand without thinking of it.

But this method sounds more possible.

 

@ Fuzzbucket; True.

 

However, i also have noticed that some winners would like to blood swap.

Also - someone suggested a while back about seeing, even-gen lineages for the prize dragons this year.

I don't know about you, but i like this odd idea and that's why i've wanted to blood swap at the start.

So we can make pretty lineages, step or even-gen, then release them to the public, as well as give out 2nd gen's.

 

Then the public can have nice 3rd gen and 2nd gen prize lineages.

This

 

I will gift some 2nd gens but I do not appreciate being told I HAVE to use MY prize for public breedings. I want to do a few swaps for 2nd gens to continue my silver shimmer x shimmer lineage and breed those for people. I will do public breedings if and when I choose to thank you very much. I am not obligated to breed for the whole forum so do not pressure me to do so.

Edited by Reidragon

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This

 

I will gift some 2nd gens but I do not appreciate being told I HAVE to use MY prize for public breedings. I want to do a few swaps for 2nd gens to continue my silver shimmer x shimmer lineage and breed those for people. I will do public breedings if and when I choose to thank you very much. I am not obligated to breed for the whole forum so do not pressure me to do so.

^

 

I've been trying very hard to balancing helping people get their first G2 while still accomplishing my own goals. I've gone so far as to offer trades made largely or entirely of commons/uncommons in a few cases, because its something that helps us both. It makes me happy to know I've been able to help even just a few people accomplish a big goal.

 

But absolutely no one is entitled to my dragon's offspring but me. Its not my job to "spread the joy", trade cheaply, or anything else of the sort. Only I get to choose how I trade, who I trade to, and the prices I set.

 

Its incredibly rude to imply that we have some duty to breed for everyone but ourselves. They're our prizes, and our dragons. We can do whatever we like with them. Wanting some even-gen prize lines doesn't make us greedy, it doesn't "take away improvement", it doesn't negate the cheaper trades we've set up or gifts we plan to give. People implying that we have some duty to the entire forum makes me want to do anything BUT gift or trade cheaply. :/

 

 

On a less sour note, I'll get that spreadsheet set up tomorrow. In the meantime any prize winners (any type of prize dragon, any year) are free to PM me to be added if they're interested in bloodswaps.

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^

 

I've been trying very hard to balancing helping people get their first G2 while still accomplishing my own goals. I've gone so far as to offer trades made largely or entirely of commons/uncommons in a few cases, because its something that helps us both. It makes me happy to know I've been able to help even just a few people accomplish a big goal.

 

But absolutely no one is entitled to my dragon's offspring but me. Its not my job to "spread the joy", trade cheaply, or anything else of the sort. Only I get to choose how I trade, who I trade to, and the prices I set.

 

Its incredibly rude to imply that we have some duty to breed for everyone but ourselves. They're our prizes, and our dragons. We can do whatever we like with them. Wanting some even-gen prize lines doesn't make us greedy, it doesn't "take away improvement", it doesn't negate the cheaper trades we've set up or gifts we plan to give. People implying that we have some duty to the entire forum makes me want to do anything BUT gift or trade cheaply. :/

 

 

On a less sour note, I'll get that spreadsheet set up tomorrow. In the meantime any prize winners (any type of prize dragon, any year) are free to PM me to be added if they're interested in bloodswaps.

So much this. 100% agreement. There are 600 of us. There are bound to be 2nd gens floating around for all kinds of trades and gifts and things. If I want to do some 2nd gen swaps first (after my gifts) I will do so as it is my right to do so. My silver egg does not come with a clause that states I must breed 2nd gens for x ammount of people on the forum or in the cave. I am sure I will breed her for people eventually but that will be at my discretion and when I decide to do so.

Edited by Reidragon

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Huh. I didn't see anyone telling you that you'd *have* to gift/cheaptrade ... How many pages back is that?

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What is the appropriate way to go about requesting a prize eggie?

 

I sent out a couple of PMs yesterday to winners.

 

MIND, I tried to word them as politely as possible, simply asking what they were getting for their eggs. They DID say they were accepting PMs about their dragons, so I figured the worst that would happen is that they wouldn't want to trade with me.

I figured it couldn't hurt to ask, right?

Edited by Silverswift

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Errrm Question.

If i opened up a raffle winners only, 2nd gen, blood swap -  topic in the breeding section, will any raffle winners be interested?

Well, that sounds a good idea to me wink.gif

I really like check lineages of the prize dragon rolleyes.gif

 

----

-removed, please don't try to use this threads for trading-

Edited by rubyshoes

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No one is trying to tell you winners who you can trade with or what to ask for 2nd gen prize babies. Fuzz wasn't trying to imply that in any way. Nor am I going to imply that with what I'm going to say.

 

Your prize is your prize. How you breed it, when you breed it, what you do with the eggs is completely up to you. No one - NO ONE has the right to dictate any of that to you - including other prize owners.

 

Two concerns occur to me from what you guys are proposing. Whether they actually become problems is determined by what attitude you guys take toward what you're thinking of doing.

 

The two concerns are: 1. are you thinking of this in terms of swapping 2nd gens with x% of the other prize owners as a sort of list which must be filled before other gifting/trading? Because previous years' winners with only 50 people on their lists were overwhelmed by them. There are 600 of you guys just this year. How many obligations do you want to take on for your dragons? (i.e. lists are bad, k?)

 

2. (the more serious concern for me) the raffles and prize dragons have already created a division among the users of the game. If you become some kind of clique, a kind of "winners club" mostly swapping between yourselves, you widen that division. It becomes very much a matter of "you" versus everyone else. There had been something of that sort of division between the artists and the rest of the forum users. I hope we've largely dispelled that perception. Trust me when I say that it's not a good position to be in. You don't want "us versus them" - you want "we". There was a hope when so many winners were chosen that the division would at least start to heal.

 

There are ways you guys can handle what you're proposing that will avoid the concerns I've outlined above. I'm hoping you choose those ways.

 

Now, as to even gen prize checkers, I'm fully in favor of those. I can breed two 3rd gen checkers myself. Which just proves that swapping 2nd gens among yourselves is not the only way for even gen prize checkers to get made.

 

Now, I want to repeat, you owe the other users nothing. Your prize is your prize to do what you want with. The question becomes, while you're making plans, have you looked down the road to see what potential side effects your plans could have, and is that the long term result you really want?

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No one is trying to tell you winners who you can trade with or what to ask for 2nd gen prize babies. Fuzz wasn't trying to imply that in any way. Nor am I going to imply that with what I'm going to say.

 

Your prize is your prize. How you breed it, when you breed it, what you do with the eggs is completely up to you. No one - NO ONE has the right to dictate any of that to you - including other prize owners.

 

Two concerns occur to me from what you guys are proposing. Whether they actually become problems is determined by what attitude you guys take toward what you're thinking of doing.

 

The two concerns are: 1. are you thinking of this in terms of swapping 2nd gens with x% of the other prize owners as a sort of list which must be filled before other gifting/trading? Because previous years' winners with only 50 people on their lists were overwhelmed by them. There are 600 of you guys just this year. How many obligations do you want to take on for your dragons? (i.e. lists are bad, k?)

 

2. (the more serious concern for me) the raffles and prize dragons have already created a division among the users of the game. If you become some kind of clique, a kind of "winners club" mostly swapping between yourselves, you widen that division. It becomes very much a matter of "you" versus everyone else. There had been something of that sort of division between the artists and the rest of the forum users. I hope we've largely dispelled that perception. Trust me when I say that it's not a good position to be in. You don't want "us versus them" - you want "we". There was a hope when so many winners were chosen that the division would at least start to heal.

 

There are ways you guys can handle what you're proposing that will avoid the concerns I've outlined above. I'm hoping you choose those ways.

 

Now, as to even gen prize checkers, I'm fully in favor of those. I can breed two 3rd gen checkers myself. Which just proves that swapping 2nd gens among yourselves is not the only way for even gen prize checkers to get made.

 

Now, I want to repeat, you owe the other users nothing. Your prize is your prize to do what you want with. The question becomes, while you're making plans, have you looked down the road to see what potential side effects your plans could have, and is that the long term result you really want?

I have to say that Fiona expresses my thoughts on this possibility well.

 

It is certainly the winners' right to trade among themselves if they want.

And I am one of those that would liek to see more pretty prize checkers.

I feel that this would be a handy way to allow that.

 

IF that is what it becomes then I would support it.

IF on the other hand it becomes a clique like what Fiona is concerned about then... it really doesn't help the relations between those with CB prizes and those without.

 

After all, those with prizes aren't the only ones who'd LOVE the chance to own 2G prize babies.

Edited by Silverswift

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This is why I oppose any new rules that would knock previous winners out of future raffles: because if BUTTS does not eventually find a CMORE, there is no justice in this world.

Oh, DON'T encourage her. xd.png

 

As for the discussion about bloodswaps.. how about prize winners take it off-DC and use at their own discretion?

Like I think has been suggested, google docs spreadsheets is an excellent way to do this. You can have someone create the page, and prize winners can PM their emails to that one person, who will add the emails to the list of people with editing powers. That way, no one other than people on the 'allowed' list can gain entry to the page.

 

People can post in the google docs what they have, and what they want. You don't even need to have an account in google docs to be able to use it.

 

It's best if someone with a prize sets it up though... giving someone else all that power might go to their head, otherwise I'd volunteer since I know my way around google docs spreadsheets VERY well.

 

If you need help trying to figure out something with it, feel free to PM and I can tell you how to set up powers and the like. I made spreadsheets for other, non-DC things. It's very hard to wrangle a group of online friends sometimes hahaha.

 

 

But I agree, don't let anyone tell you how to breed your dragon. I haven't even asked specifically to be on anyone's list, all I did was ask what they would be interested in trading in the future, and gave them a short list of what *I* have that's nice that they might want so they don't have to dive into my thousands of dragons on my scroll. It's just polite to not be demanding.

 

It's the same for those who didn't win a prize. If I know you, and know you like a certain thing and I happen to have that certain thing, I will toss eggs at you until you tell me to stop. xd.png That's why I'm a breeder on Breeding, Gifting.

 

Edit: Um, unless prize owners want to ONLY swap among themselves and NEVER trade/gift 2nd gens, I don't see why it's a problem? Lineages will disperse through the cave just fine, the odds are of every single winner of the 600 breeding ONLY for the other 599 is kinda silly. Pretty sure some of them don't even like EGs, which means at the very least there will be some nice 3rd gens showing up too.

 

Relax... at the very least, 2nd gen #601 will go to someone new. xd.png

Edited by zaverxi

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No one is trying to tell you winners who you can trade with or what to ask for 2nd gen prize babies. Fuzz wasn't trying to imply that in any way. Nor am I going to imply that with what I'm going to say.

 

Your prize is your prize. How you breed it, when you breed it, what you do with the eggs is completely up to you. No one - NO ONE has the right to dictate any of that to you - including other prize owners.

 

Two concerns occur to me from what you guys are proposing. Whether they actually become problems is determined by what attitude you guys take toward what you're thinking of doing.

 

The two concerns are: 1. are you thinking of this in terms of swapping 2nd gens with x% of the other prize owners as a sort of list which must be filled before other gifting/trading? Because previous years' winners with only 50 people on their lists were overwhelmed by them. There are 600 of you guys just this year. How many obligations do you want to take on for your dragons? (i.e. lists are bad, k?)

 

2. (the more serious concern for me) the raffles and prize dragons have already created a division among the users of the game. If you become some kind of clique, a kind of "winners club" mostly swapping between yourselves, you widen that division. It becomes very much a matter of "you" versus everyone else. There had been something of that sort of division between the artists and the rest of the forum users. I hope we've largely dispelled that perception. Trust me when I say that it's not a good position to be in. You don't want "us versus them" - you want "we". There was a hope when so many winners were chosen that the division would at least start to heal.

 

There are ways you guys can handle what you're proposing that will avoid the concerns I've outlined above. I'm hoping you choose those ways.

 

Now, as to even gen prize checkers, I'm fully in favor of those. I can breed two 3rd gen checkers myself. Which just proves that swapping 2nd gens among yourselves is not the only way for even gen prize checkers to get made.

 

Now, I want to repeat, you owe the other users nothing. Your prize is your prize to do what you want with. The question becomes, while you're making plans, have you looked down the road to see what potential side effects your plans could have, and is that the long term result you really want?

Thanks Fi - that is EXACTLY what I meant. Thank you for hearing it.

 

Such an exclusive thread would just breed more divisiveness - we have enough of that here already. The reference to "the public" getting eggs is EXACTLY the feel that this gives me.

Then the public can have nice 3rd gen and 2nd gen prize lineages.

 

Winners vs the public.

 

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

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Yeah, I think a winners only thread for trading would just breed resentment even more than what already exists. Off-site will probably be better, especially since that way those who want to remain private, can.

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Relax... at the very least, 2nd gen #601 will go to someone new. xd.png

You're planning really long-term here, eh? laugh.gif Assuming 52 to 53 breedings per year, that's only 11ish years to breed, provided a Prize egg is laid every single time, no kins, no "no interest", no refusal, no "no egg" either.

Yes yes, very long time xd.png By the time you're done with that, I may actually have won a Prize dragon of my own - that would be cool, too!

Edited by Ruby Eyes

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Thanks Fi - that is EXACTLY what I meant. Thank you for hearing it.

 

Such an exclusive thread would just breed more divisiveness - we have enough of that here already. The reference to "the public" getting eggs is EXACTLY the feel that this gives me.

 

 

Winners vs the public.

 

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

And therin lies the rub... the crux of the whole issue.

 

Are all prize owners greedy, elitist and only interested in trading their 2G babies for other 2G?

Of course not.

 

Many of them trade for less than that, and many gift their shiny eggs.

 

The trouble IS that there seems tobe a general perception that 2G eggs are insanely valuable, such that about the only thing that you could offer that might get you one is another 2G. Accurate or NOT there is a perception out there that prize owners are MAINLY interested in prize blood swaps.I get the idea behind this suggestion... a seperate place for such swaps so they won't clutter up the other trade threads and make it hard for people to find what they are looking for and can afford to trade for. ( NOT necessarily a bad idea, I might add) On the other hand, I also get why some people see a danger in it.

 

Prize winners have the RIGHT to do what they want with their eggs... how the rest of us percieve it is another matter.

What is intended isn't ALWAYS what people see.

Edited by Silverswift

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I have lined up a bloodswap or two, but I tried to focus on fulfilling requests for people who didn't already have Prizes; it's been an uphill battle for me to even get some of the rares, and to have a Gold Shimmer dropped in my lap felt like heaven.

 

I am very against breeding only for other prize winners; there are too many people who have the same problem I had, with virtually no rares and seemingly no way to get people interested in trading for them.

 

I won't do that to other people.

 

(That said, my request list for 2nd Gen Gold Shimmers is closed until I actually GET my Shimmer now, lol)

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Yeah, just make sure your list doesn't get too long. Feeling guilty for not being able to pay back stuff on time when breedings don't go well is not what this pretty little pixel image was intended for. smile.gif

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Yeah, just make sure your list doesn't get too long. Feeling guilty for not being able to pay back stuff on time when breedings don't go well is not what this pretty little pixel image was intended for. smile.gif

And lots of people have quit this game or gone inactive over frustration for that very reason, too.

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I don't know, maybe I'm just weird as hell, but Prize winners having a thread to trade with other Prize winners doesn't...bother me. It doesn't seem unreasonable or 'greedy' to me. At all. When I think of it, it just seems logical if they want to do blood swaps among themselves. I wouldn't have a problem with it, honestly. I don't care what Prize winners do. I'm just not one of these people around here that feels any need to worry about it, or keep up with them and what they're doing. I know people in this thread have won and mentioned it, but if someone put a million in front of me right now and asked me to name 3 of them, I couldn't do it.

 

The way I see it, Prize winners will do both, sooner or later...blood swap with other winners and gift/trade with the public. When they do these things is on them. I don't lose sleep at night sweating whether or not some prize winner is going to open a list or not. I don't ever expect to have a 2nd gen, I don't pursue them or winners, and if there's never a 2nd gen on my scroll, I really, honestly don't feel like I'm losing anything or missing anything.

 

Prize winners can do what they want. Personally, I couldn't care less what they do. smile.gif *shrug*

Edited by MedievalMystic

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Are all prize owners greedy, elitist and only interested in trading their 2G babies for other 2G?

Of course not.

 

 

What is intended isn't ALWAYS what people see.

Of course the prize winners are not all greedy, entitled or elitist. They're just ordinary people who had a very fortunate thing happen to them.

 

And sometimes when people have very fortunate things happen to them in their excitement over it they make choices that later they realize led them down a road they regret. So it also can come down to, What is intended isn't always what actually happens.

 

I think a google spreadsheet helping those who are interested in some bloodswaps with other winners to keep track of who they've swapped with it a fine idea. It probably shouldn't be accessible to anyone who isn't part of the swapping. Also, other winners shouldn't feel pressured to join (though no one at this point was suggesting they would be) I was just a little concerned that over their excitement of setting up such bloodswaps they might get carried away and not think clearly about how many such swaps they were committing themselves to. Having a place to keep track is great.

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