Trader's Canyon

[ArgentiAertheri]

13 hours ago, Thuban said:

 

1. How long have you been playing? (less than 6 months, 6-12 months, 1-3 years, 4-6 years, 6+ years)
2. What type of player are you? (Pick a few keywords to use, in relation to your play style. Things like casual, breeder, trader, hoarder... )
3. How much time do you spend playing this game a day/week?
4. During the time you play, roughly how much time do you devote to breeding, trading, hunting the cave, hunting the ap and/or other activities? (If there are things you do not do for whatever reason, please write something like <1 hour or never.)
5. How would the ability to earn CB dragons help you with your scroll goals? Please explain.
6. What is it about this idea that you like? Why?
7. Is there anything you feel should be tweaked or that you think should be added? Why?
8. Do you have anything else to say about this thread, that you want to share?

 

 

 

1. Um… 2010-2013, and then the last month or so.
2. Hoarder and breeder
3. 3 hours/day
4. Breeding 15-20 min, trading the same, hunting biomes/AP 1 hour, forums/naming/other 1 hour
5. I want a pair of every sprite, including frozen hatchies, I can't even get a massively inbred gold for freezing, forget multiple CB ones!
6. Would actually be able to earn things, instead of it being luck and fast internet/reflexes
7. Nope, I think you've got it covered!
8. Actually… yes. As it stands DC is heavily skewed against people who, for whatever reason, cannot click quickly. Sure, you can get faster internet (maybe), but what about disabled people? Even just a broken wrist would make catching anything basically impossible, it's the 21st century, maybe make the game more accessible?

[GhostMouse]

1.  How long have you been playing? (less than 6 months, 6-12 months, 1-3 years, 4-6 years, 6+ years)

6+ years (Since 2011)

 

2. What type of player are you? (Pick a few keywords to use, in relation to your play style. Things like casual, breeder, trader, hoarder... )

Collector, hoarder, occasional breeder, roughly in that order

 

3. How much time do you spend playing this game a day/week?

I check in on and off daily, probably adds up to a couple hours a day, especially if I'm waiting for eggs to hatch while doing something else.

4. During the time you play, roughly how much time do you devote to breeding, trading, hunting the cave, hunting the ap and/or other activities? (If there are things you do not do for whatever reason, please write something like <1 hour or never.)

Most of my time is probably spent AP hunting to complete my scroll goals. I try to have a couple small lineage projects going on consistently to have something to do, but breeding only takes so long before you're locked or have to toss another egg of the wrong breed and wait another week. I only hunt the cave if I happen to notice I'm on at the top of the hour, otherwise it's rarely worth it. Sometimes I breed stuff just to toss nice things into the AP. I rarely trade. Sometimes I will spend time trying to get all my dragons named.

5. How would the ability to earn CB dragons help you with your scroll goals? Please explain.

I've been playing long enough that I have most of the commons/uncommons that I need to complete my scroll, but I'm not fast or patient enough to stalk the cave for the rares I still need. If I could earn them through raising dragons like I currently do, it would make my goals so much more achievable and interesting.

6. What is it about this idea that you like? Why?
I like the idea that anyone can obtain rares, and that it can be done through any play style. I play this game to relax, and I enjoy the generally slow-paced game play, which doesn't happen in the cave. Those who are good at cave hunting can catch or trade for the rares they need. Right now you have to be fast, have a fast computer/internet connection, be on at the right time, and sometimes just be very lucky to be able to obtain rares. Aggressive cave hunting isn't really my play style, and that's hindering me from completing my scroll goals and from breeding more lineages. At this point I rarely even collect metal-kin from the AP because I know I can never continue the lineage. I also don't care to trade often (not that I ever have anything worth a CB metal). I like the idea that scroll goals can be completed without relying on other users whatsoever, especially since DC itself has no features for interacting with other users (you have to be on the forums to arrange trades, there is no where on the site itself to find trades, or to offer eggs to other users). By its nature, it is a solo game and should be playable as such.

 

7. Is there anything you feel should be tweaked or that you think should be added? Why?

No, I'm happy with the way this is described in the first post.

 

8.Do you have anything else to say about this thread, that you want to share?

I realize these are not part of the main suggestion, but I like the proposed "potion" idea to influence alts or Nebula/Stripe colors, etc. I'm not a big fan of earning points through minigames because that seems like another "biased" form of game play (benefits fast users or those who are better at whatever games are added, much like the cave is better for faster users), but if there was a point cap in place as suggested I guess it wouldn't be a big deal. I'm sorry if the minigame topic has been discussed to death already, I wanted to give my "why I want this" input but didn't have time to read this whole thread (which is why I didn't give an in depth comment before).

Overall I would really love to see this implemented, whether or not it has potions or minigames or whatever else. I would rather have a way to earn dragons that isn't exactly how I envisioned it, than to not be able to earn dragons at all because it can't be done exactly as described.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not wild about the potions, either. I'd rather have it just dragons.

[Thuban]

On 2/27/2018 at 9:41 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

I'm not wild about the potions, either. I'd rather have it just dragons.

While potions aren't directly part of the framework, let me give a brief history of why the idea came about (broken logic, to a degree, but bear with me):

 

There are actions people want to be able to do, that don't quite fit the existing dragons, and not everyone has the skills needed to create a dragon that can do the thing they are hoping to see. I have a breed of dragon sitting in a folder that has a way to "Sterilize" other dragons (it's a bit of a drawn out explanation for how it works, but there is science and stuff to back it up). Now, I can sprite, to a degree, but the dragon I applied it to pretty much has zero chances of being released. I've tried remaking it a few times, but its outside of my skill set, and since I don't really play anymore, the drive to make it has dropped, drastically. So the thought was: Why not come up with potions that can mimic the BSAs people are wanting, without having to force it onto an existing breed OR rely on a release to happen?

This opened the door for potentially useful things to be created that could work alongside the in-game mechanics, without needing to wait on a dragon release, or forcing it onto a breed that exists, or forcing players to change how they play to be able to do those things. The bsa I designed to sterilize dragons, could easily be made into a poison, cause the same series of events to happen, and have the same potential outcome as the dragon itself could have had, if i had had better sprites and it were to be released. 
The potions, if handled carefully, could be a pretty awesome addition to the game, and does work within the realm of what the world that has been built can do. It opens the door for some interesting potential, but i do feel a dragons BSA would nearly always do the job better than a potion would, so getting the abilities onto the dragons themselves should still be a focus. A poison to do what my dragons sterilizing process would, would probably fail more often than not (resulting in death).

While they are something I would absolutely love to see happen, I really think they should be in a thread of their own. While I do want this store to happen, and i see the potential of the potions being popular, I think its best that they be worked out separately, so that they can have a chance. It may be easier to work out a way to give players the potions instead of building a store and working out the kinks required to keep it from breaking the game. If the store happens, the potion expansion could easily be worked out and worked in.. but if it doesnt, I feel the potion thread would need its own system, its own framework to have a chance. At the very least, the discussion for how to make those work could lead to changes that help make this thread better. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Thuban

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh I know the why. I'm just not keen : (I have been following this thread since day 1 !) Like you, I feel they are a very separate issue, and I don't know how they would best fit.

[Thuban]

39 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Oh I know the why. I'm just not keen : (I have been following this thread since day 1 !) Like you, I feel they are a very separate issue, and I don't know how they would best fit.

I figured you knew why those came up, but felt it was worth it to explain it real quick, and why I keep pushing for them to be handled separately for those who havent been through this thing page by page.

Thank you everyone for weighing in on the questions I asked. My hope is that expanding the reasons for why people want this and how it affects how they play their individual games will either push this thing forward, or lead to us gaining some information on how it needs to change for it to be able to happen. 

[olympe]

Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm not supporting the store in order to get potions or scrolls into the game, quite the contrary. I simply mentioned both as something that could *potentially* be added once a store is implemented.

 

And, while it would be prudent to discuss these things in a thread of their own, I don't think it's feasible to start a thread on expanding a feature that hasn't even seen the light of day, if it ever will.

[Thuban]

On 3/1/2018 at 1:46 PM, olympe said:

And, while it would be prudent to discuss these things in a thread of their own, I don't think it's feasible to start a thread on expanding a feature that hasn't even seen the light of day, if it ever will.

I have been failing to make that clear. I think for the potions, its best to work them out separately, and come up with a different system for getting them into the game. As it stands, we had worked out how to fit them into this idea already, and if the store happens, they could be worked back in later... but if the potions are on their own and have their own system worked out, they have a chance to be their own thing, without relying on this beast of a thread to happen. 

They werent needed for our base framework, and so became a sideline item that went to waste, but since people seemed interested in the idea of them, I thought it would be best to move them to another thread. There are plenty of ways they could be worked in to the existing game, that don't involve /needing/ a shop. For example, we have had two events now that would work really well along side potions: Send the dragons to harvest (recent v-day) and use those ingredients to cook up potions (cooking event). The framework is already there, it just sort of makes it a mini game, more than a feature. 

The shop.. well.. its as worked out as its gonna get without new input. There is wiggle room to change things as needed.  At this point, its a waiting game until we are given something.. anything to work with to make it more possible. 

[Fuzzbucket]

A while ago we got:

 

 

TJ did say it was getting far too complicated. And - I suspect that is part of the issue. What we need is a way to earn points that we can use to acquire dragons. And TJ DID post a few ideas about that earlier on. And then we started getting people adding potions, collectibles, food... None of which are actually remotely needed. But the ways to get eggs ARE. Can we get back to the basics, please ? In the hope that something may happen ?

[JavaTigress]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

A while ago we got:

 

 

TJ did say it was getting far too complicated. And - I suspect that is part of the issue. What we need is a way to earn points that we can use to acquire dragons. And TJ DID post a few ideas about that earlier on. And then we started getting people adding potions, collectibles, food... None of which are actually remotely needed. But the ways to get eggs ARE. Can we get back to the basics, please ? In the hope that something may happen ?

Good point @Fuzzbucket.

 

Really , the extras, I think, deserve to be dealt with separately, in their own separate threads, on their own merit or lack thereof, once we actually HAVE a store to expand on. Honestly I am agreed that the basic framework needs to be added first BEFORE any bells and whistles, so to speak, can be added onto it. There is timeenough for hashing out stuff like potions, and so on later. The important part is the above... a store for getting DRAGONS.

[olympe]

Which is why I'm in favor of closing this thread and starting anew, with a very thorough summary of the main points, which are:

• How to acquire currency, and what other methods were suggested (and decided against).
• What can be bought in the shop.
• Which limits apply (plus the reasons why they're a good idea).
• Plus, maybe the framework around pricing?

This would leave us with a fresh thread with all important information in one place that leaves place for new discussion. The thread we currently have is so full of discussions on things that aren't even relevant any more, it's not even funny. (Like mini-games, lore, stuff-besides-eggs that we can find in the store... I'm sure there's more.)

Edited March 3, 2018 by olympe
Edited for clarification.

[Fuzzbucket]

What can be bought - JUST EGGS for starters. It needs to be VERY simple.

 

I'd actually be OK with TJ deciding on pricing.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[purplehaze]

On 2/23/2018 at 12:13 AM, TJ09 said:

In this case, I do believe the situation I've described of "impossible-to-meet expectations because it's guaranteed to not happen as spelled out in the OP" still covers things. The fact that someone was just chewed out within the last day for daring to bring up a topic that has already been gone over provides some pretty good evidence of that. If I were to dare deviate from that reported consensus, I can't even imagine how poorly it'd go over.

@TJ09 So TALK to us already! Tell us what you think. Tell us what you would be likely to implement and what you wouldn't! Tell us why things wouldn't happen as spelled out in the OP and what you think should be done instead. If you were to jump in and implement something different than what we propose without any discussion we might be disappointed, yes. But if you would just be willing to discuss it a bit we might be able to come to some sort of compromise that would work for us and for you. And if not, we would at least know why! Without your input we are just left talking around in circles. I think it is that frustration that leaves us snapping at each other sometimes.

Edited March 3, 2018 by purplehaze

[olympe]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

What can be bought - JUST EGGS for starters. It needs to be VERY simple.

 

I'd actually be OK with TJ deciding on pricing.

Well, yes, obviously. For starters. And maybe forever.

 

However, the question of how to acquire currency is a bit more complicated, as there was a lot of discussion. Lots of discussion on mini-games at first, later we got the "play the game to gain currency" idea. And there were a lot of ideas in between. Eventually, we settled on something that allows for the most diverse kinds of play styles, I think. *sigh* However, the most basic version would be "hatch and raise/freeze dragons to gain currency", which we later modified to include "gain currency through use of BSAs". (Of course, it can only apply to BSAs that cannot be spammed, so Teleport, Splash, Earthquake and (maybe) Fertility need to be excluded. I think we agreed on making breeding a pair count for getting currency if one of the bred dragons had Fertility used on them? Not sure.) I think we also discussed earning currency through getting eggs (breeding, catching), but that one was a bit more complicated to stop people from earning their share by catching and re-abandoning everything in sight in the AP.  

 

But, in order to make it as simple as possible, we could start with "hatching, raising/freezing dragons", I guess.

 

And then there's the discussion about limits. Limits on how many dragons of each kind you can buy, which eventually got into "as many as you can afford, within your scroll limits" territory. And the discussion on caps on how much currency you can earn in any given time interval. I think we discussed daily caps, weekly caps, 8-day caps (in accord with Valkemare's moon cycle), and maybe bi-weekly? (It's been a long, long time...)

Edited March 3, 2018 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes - leave out use of BSAs for now. Points through normal play. And not the Valkemarian moons and so on stuff. Nothing at all COMPLICATED. But for the summary post - there doesn't need to be that level of detail. I would honestly be OK with TJ working them out if it brought us closer to getting a store at all.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Thuban]

The things in the first post are the things we came up with. Without direct input from TJ on what works and isnt working for him, there really is no reason to change anything. Between what had been said in here, and what I had talked with him about in the irc, everything that had been mentioned as an issue, has been addressed and waiting on input.

 

That summary on the first post is what happened after that quote of tjs. We stripped all the extras (if you recall we had a few different shops written out), and left the bare bones of what was agreed on. That summary on the first page hasn't changed outside of adding the questions, and the discussions for the most part have been nothing more than keeping the thread somewhat active.The history of the potions was just given to refresh people on why they were a thing, and to re-emphasise that I dont want them worked out in this thread (which has been my stance for quite awhile, I was asking you guys to do that around the time I closed my weather balloon thread...)

 Now, if you guys wanna take the ideas this thread generated and start a new shop thread, that might have a better shot, by all means do so. We've been fairly satisfied with the progress here on our end, but if someone wants to start from scratch and go through it all again, I have no objection. But at this time, without any new specific information from him on what the issues are that he sees, I am uninterested in starting this thing over, again. Its been revamped enough times now with minimal information and input.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I also see no point in us wasting more effort until TJ shows himself willing to commit to a dialogue. 

 

As people have said changes can happily be made, but I won’t waste time making suggestions when I’m likely going to be shouting into the nether.

[Fuzzbucket]

TJ effectively said there is too much detail in the first post, so....

[Jazeki]

On 2/26/2018 at 8:56 AM, Thuban said:

Lets focus on getting a good list going on why this or a similar kind of idea is needed/wanted. Please read through the list of questions before answering them. There will be room to expand on your answers at the end. I'd like to get a feel for the types of players we have, and how they play their game. If someone out there can figure out a way to compile the information in a useful way, and wants to please feel free. 

1. How long have you been playing? (less than 6 months, 6-12 months, 1-3 years, 4-6 years, 6+ years) 
2. What type of player are you? (Pick a few keywords to use, in relation to your play style. Things like casual, breeder, trader, hoarder... )
3. How much time do you spend playing this game a day/week?
4. During the time you play, roughly how much time do you devote to breeding, trading, hunting the cave, hunting the ap and/or other activities? (If there are things you do not do for whatever reason, please write something like <1 hour or never.)
5. How would the ability to earn CB dragons help you with your scroll goals? Please explain.
6. What is it about this idea that you like? Why?
7. Is there anything you feel should be tweaked or that you think should be added? Why?
8. Do you have anything else to say about this thread, that you want to share?

 

 

1. 9 Years. Ten next year~
2. Casual trader.

3. About an hour-two hours a day/around 14 hours a week now (sometimes more if I have additional free time)

4. About 45 minutes to hunting/breeding and fifteen or so minutes to trading. 

5.I would finally be able to get CB golds and CB prizes, things that I have been missing and unable to catch or trade for  in the time I have been here.

6. I like being able to earn things at my own pace without having to worry about whether I am in the right place at the right time, if I have luck on my side, or if I have something good enough to trade.

7.  I'm not too crazy about all the potions and things since I am most interested in earning dragons, but everything will work out.
8. This is mostly for TJ, but I will not be disappointed if this gets implemented and isn't exactly like how it's laid out in OP. Other than that, carry on. :3

Edited March 5, 2018 by Jazeki

[Thuban]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

TJ effectively said there is too much detail in the first post, so....

The quote you are basing your comment on is over a year old. That is from immediately before we stripped the thread to the bare bones summary we have right now. I have a clean copy, and the really nicely nested format version someone had worked out for us.If you guys want to see what we've changed this from to get it to where is it now, I can pm a copy (as I see no point to throwing that huge monster of a post in here)
 

Quote

In this case, I do believe the situation I've described of "impossible-to-meet expectations because it's guaranteed to not happen as spelled out in the OP" still covers things. The fact that someone was just chewed out within the last day for daring to bring up a topic that has already been gone over provides some pretty good evidence of that. If I were to dare deviate from that reported consensus, I can't even imagine how poorly it'd go over.

This is basically the only thing we have been given to work with since that quote. This gives us nothing useful for helping to direct the thread to address the issues he may or may not have in regards to this suggestion. The previous page is where that quote came from (page 77). As others have said: it has gotten as specific as it has in response to being told we needed to scale it back, work out pricing and flesh out the details for the bare bones stuff. 

[olympe]

Feels like no matter what we do with this suggestion, it's somehow all wrong. Too little, too much, not detailed enough, too detailed, too complicated...

[Fuzzbucket]

Fair enough. Don't know what to suggest, then.

[Thuban]

4 minutes ago, olympe said:

Feels like no matter what we do with this suggestion, it's somehow all wrong. Too little, too much, not detailed enough, too detailed, too complicated...

Basically. My stance right now is

• Unless some new twist is pitched for the existing mechanics that works better than what is in the first post, this thing is worked out. We havent needed to add anything to the first post for a reason, we worked out everything we had to work with.
• Without specific input on what needs changed, from TJ himself, I see no reason to start over again or change much. We have been happy with it.
• If someone thinks they can take the things pitched throughout this thread, and make something better, please feel free.

I am not interested in maintaining the thread if this thing needs to start over from scratch again. If this thing needs major overhauls, someone else needs to handle it. I really don't have the spoons or time between my jobs (four currently), family time and my day to day life. Its not that I've lost interest in the idea, just that its been so long, that im no longer passionate about about maintaining it. 

[Guillotine]

13 hours ago, olympe said:

Feels like no matter what we do with this suggestion, it's somehow all wrong. Too little, too much, not detailed enough, too detailed, too complicated...

It feels like TJ is trying to dodge saying that he just doesn't want to put in a feature that a lot of support has been shown for, honestly.
 

[HeatherMarie]

8 hours ago, Guillotine said:

It feels like TJ is trying to dodge saying that he just doesn't want to put in a feature that a lot of support has been shown for, honestly.
 

 

Personally I'd much rather have a blunt 'it's not going to happen' then the run-around we've gotten so far. But given how much this forum is prone to drama I can totally understand wanting to avoid saying outright that such a wanted thing won't actually happen. Whether that's what's going on or not.