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Trader's Canyon

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*insert monthly 'I support the store' post*

 

CB hybrids only make sense in the case where both parents share a biome (as in, they could theoretically interact in the wild). If they don't, then it's questionable.

Like, purples and spitfires can cross paths, whereas sunsets and sunsongs cannot.

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^ That's a good point.

 

Should Guardians of Nature also be included in the store? Yes, they can be obtained directly through summoning, but the success rate is incredibly low. I myself have been trying for a year without luck for my second GoN, and I know others have been working at it for even longer. So if the purpose of the store is to make obtaining rare dragons easier...thoughts?

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Maybe an item to boost the success chance of the next summon/force a success (the latter is only if GoN summoning is free from ratios)? Obviously the latter would be pricier than the former, but I think that it could be something worth considering.
 

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I don't think GoNs proper should be available in the store, since they are a special mechanic and require three different dragons to make (although a 'Trio bundle' or something would be cool!). But I'd definitely support a potion or something for increased chance of success. 

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6 hours ago, The Dragoness said:

^ That's a good point.

 

Should Guardians of Nature also be included in the store? Yes, they can be obtained directly through summoning, but the success rate is incredibly low. I myself have been trying for a year without luck for my second GoN, and I know others have been working at it for even longer. So if the purpose of the store is to make obtaining rare dragons easier...thoughts?

 

No. Absolutely not. And I speak as one who had to wait THREE YEARS of regular summons to get my first.

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On 2/7/2018 at 8:52 PM, The Dragoness said:

^ That's a good point.

 

Should Guardians of Nature also be included in the store? Yes, they can be obtained directly through summoning, but the success rate is incredibly low. I myself have been trying for a year without luck for my second GoN, and I know others have been working at it for even longer. So if the purpose of the store is to make obtaining rare dragons easier...thoughts?

Not sure about that, myself.

 

As others have pointed out GoNs are sort of a special case.

They don't breed 'after their own kind' the wya other dragons do... a GoN must be SUMMONED.

'Trio packs' for sale might be a possible idea. ( I forget if more sets of trios means more chances to summon or such...) but I am almost going to have to say that I don't think I support the idea of just flat out BUYING a GoN. For one thing. IF such a thing were to be allowed, the price would almost have to be high eough that it would still take a fair amount of time to get one. THAT and as I said... they were sort of different, anyway.  And yes...I Do recall how frustrating it can be to summon and get nothing. It took MANY tries to get the pair I have now, I am sure.

 

ETA- I am not sure that an item ( potion?) to increase  chances of a successful summoning would be unreasonable, tho. I might be OK with THAT idea.

Edited by JavaTigress

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I'm not sure about that, actually. On the one hand, I see how the summoning makes GoNs "special", but on the other hand, I can also see how frustrating endless summoning is. And I didn't have to wait nearly as long for mine as fuzz. Maybe put GoNs in at the same price range as a CB silver? This way, they're expensive, and you really need to want one in order to actually go ahead and buy one, but it's not impossible. (And, of course, scroll limits still apply.)

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While I definitely understand the frustrating of constant summoning fails, I'm not sure I agree with them being on the same tier as Silvers. Silvers are much easier to get then they used to be in the biomes, and imo are a fair bit lower in value then GoNs. Especially since GoNs require collecting *three* relatively-uncommon dragons just to even attempt summoning, I don't really think they should be as easy to get as CB Silvers.

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I would have a different solution for GoNs, but it doesn't really involve the store.. I'd say, every time you try to summon one and fail, the chance should increase next summon, so eventually it's impossible not to get one.

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I would support a chance-boosting potion fully, and *maybe* a 100%-chance potion (available only after X consecutive failed summons?) but not a GoN in the store. If they HAD to be included, I'd put them at roughly one year's work. Less time than some (Fuzz) have spent trying to summon one, but still a lot more than others (my first summon was successful) and you'd have to be desperate to buy it. Anything less wouldn't do them justice.

 

Also, can we acknowledge that these supposedly really powerful dragons have no BSA whatsoever? Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I would have a different solution for GoNs, but it doesn't really involve the store.. I'd say, every time you try to summon one and fail, the chance should increase next summon, so eventually it's impossible not to get one.

 

I completely support this both for GoN summoning and for zombie-making, though those suggestions have been brought up multiple times over the years and it's never happened, so... (It does make sense, though, I mean the more you (or the Trio dragons) use the magic involved, the better you are at it, so the better the chance of success.) 

 

I do sort of like the idea of a guaranteed-success potion that would only be available after a certain number of failed summons. Like, you have to put in the time and effort first, and if it just isn't happening you can eventually sacrifice your points/shards/whatever to finally have a success.

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Hello everyone. I'm glad to see interest in this thread still exists. I would like to request once again that if the potions are a thing people want to work out, that a NEW thread be started, by someone active and that ideally understands what the goal of this thread was. Please feel free to link back and use the framework as wanted/needed, but I would prefer to keep this specific thread to the content ideas we have already worked out specifically, and things like potions being worked out somewhere else that links back. 

I am absolutely willing to pop in and tackle issues and concerns regarding the content of the first post, and the mechanics we have worked out to date. I am reachable in IRC more these days (though not entirely active, so be patient, or toss me a pm with your forum name so I can get in touch), and a handful of users there have other ways of contacting me. The past 18 months, and the foreseeable future have been and will continue to be hectic for me and as such, my ability to stay on top of this thread has been severely compromised. 
 

RE: CB Hybrids and Alts - If you have to breed to get the specific outcome, no, you absolutely can not have a cb hybrid/alt. This is highly unlikely to change. "Alts" that are nothing more than a color variant you can currently catch in cave, will be available. Alts that have to be bred will not. Hybrids will not. 
RE GoNs - No, I have never seriously considered them as something that would be part of this, as their mechanic is a very specific thing. The ability to get more trios through it should be helpful though (iirc more trios increase the chances, but its been so long I am unsure). Potions and other mechanics for increasing those chances would be best served in a different thread. 

Thank you everyone who still supports the thread and helped get it where it is today. There are a million and one ways this thing could be expanded, but I still feel that focusing on the base framework, and getting the kinks situated is the best route to go. If it gets put into use, great, the door opens to work on all of the other awesome ideas we had been working out. If not, then we will have to find another way to make it work :P

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On 07/01/2018 at 3:41 PM, HeatherMarie said:

To those against any sort of in-game currency: Why? I'm genuinely curious about the reasons behind your stance.

 

In game currency is fine, I am just not keen on the game currency that costs real money to obtain.

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So after stalking the suggestion thread for a few days I decided to spring over my shadow and actually reply ^^

 

I really like this idea because 

- players with less time/ bad internet connection or rusty reflexes can get (with time) get those rares without having to rely on trading 

- it be motivating to be online more often even if only for short periods of time 

- with special events hunting for cave Blockers could be encouraged 

- would love if it would be used to make CB Price dragons available for everyone (and I am a price owner)

 

The first point really I myself simply don’t have the time to spend hours hunting that CB Gold (have some but would like more for lineage projects)

So I spend most of my time breeding 

a store would give me a new way to get dragons I don’t have time hunting for.

 

 

While I think most has been mentioned before TJ pointed out that he is more interested in why as to how 

So I summarized that

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So I'm just going to stuff this random thought in here.

 

TJ shot down CB hybrids / alts, but that got me thinking... what if there was a potion that could remove the lineage of dragons without children--with a twist? It would still always show the real generation number, much like some of TJ's thuweds do, like this one: https://dragcave.net/lineage/fjQn9

 

That way, people could make "faux" alt / hybrid checkers while making sure the only way to get them was still to collect the parent breeds, encouraging the collecting that alts and hybrids were meant to do all along. It would also allow people who want to make metal / prize / insert other rare line here lineages more easily. Thus people who only care about making pretty lineages could do such fake lines if they needed to with rares, while people who are devoted to collecting "the real stuff" would notice the wrong generation numbers and strive to collect the rarer real lines. 

 

Thoughts?? I'm probably crazy and it's probably going to get a lot of hate but I think it's kind of brilliant, haha!

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On 2/20/2018 at 4:36 AM, angelicdragonpuppy said:

So I'm just going to stuff this random thought in here.

 

TJ shot down CB hybrids / alts, but that got me thinking... what if there was a potion that could remove the lineage of dragons without children--with a twist? It would still always show the real generation number, much like some of TJ's thuweds do, like this one: https://dragcave.net/lineage/fjQn9

 

That way, people could make "faux" alt / hybrid checkers while making sure the only way to get them was still to collect the parent breeds, encouraging the collecting that alts and hybrids were meant to do all along. It would also allow people who want to make metal / prize / insert other rare line here lineages more easily. Thus people who only care about making pretty lineages could do such fake lines if they needed to with rares, while people who are devoted to collecting "the real stuff" would notice the wrong generation numbers and strive to collect the rarer real lines. 

 

Thoughts?? I'm probably crazy and it's probably going to get a lot of hate but I think it's kind of brilliant, haha!

I actually like this idea. I would finally be able to make perfect checkers with Soulpeace Dragons :3

 

Not sure about the "without children" part though, cause I immediately thought about using in on my second Gens .... who I already used in one PB Lineage. I would still like to make them appear CB.

After all I could get a similar Lineage view if I killed the first Hybrid and other people would be affected by that also? Aegis are like that too

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On 2/13/2018 at 1:50 PM, Starscream said:

 

In game currency is fine, I am just not keen on the game currency that costs real money to obtain.

I think THIS is the bottom line.

 

It isn't SO MUCH in-game currency people are against for DC as the way it is often implemented in other games ( purchasable with REAL money).

SIMPLY because it gives those with a bit of extra cash they are willing to throw at the game an instant advantage over those that don't ( OR won't.)

 

HOWEVER, there is absolutely NO reason that an in-game store and currency NEEDS to be implemented that way.

Edited by JavaTigress

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57 minutes ago, Peij said:

I actually like this idea. I would finally be able to make perfect checkers with Soulpeace Dragons :3

 

Not sure about the "without children" part though, cause I immediately thought about using in on my second Gens .... who I already used in one PB Lineage. I would still like to make them appear CB.

After all I could get a similar Lineage view if I killed the first Hybrid and other people would be affected by that also? Aegis are like that too

 

Deadlines and Aegis shifting already cause a ton of grief and heartbreak. I remember one person who had a 5th gen Holly x Pink checker and had it ruined by someone killing a Holly. All their hard work, wasted. I absolutely do not want to add another way people can be screwed over. No children only, please! ;___;

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I just thought of a game currency that would be easily obtainable - could argue methods/merits and abuse of getting it

 

But egg shards. Each egg hatched could produce a shard. maybe scaled by Rare shards (3 shards), uncommon shards (2 shards) and common shards (1 shard) (or reverse the values to make it an incentive to collect commons)

Dead Egg shards (vamp/earthquake/sickness)  (maybe worth 1 or .5 shard)

 

And is easily obtained by doing nothing more than regular hatching of eggs on a scroll.

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@Starscream: Please, please read the OP before rehashing things that have been hashed out until some kind of consensus has been reached. It says it all. How currency is obtained (and real money doesn't play any part in this), how grinding is avoided and so on. (Sorry if this comes across as cross, but your last two posts make it obvious that you don't know what has already been discussed in this thread.)

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26 minutes ago, olympe said:

@Starscream: Please, please read the OP before rehashing things that have been hashed out until some kind of consensus has been reached. It says it all. How currency is obtained (and real money doesn't play any part in this), how grinding is avoided and so on. (Sorry if this comes across as cross, but your last two posts make it obvious that you don't know what has already been discussed in this thread.)

sorry for living.

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16 minutes ago, Starscream said:

sorry for living.

 

Don't be ! This thread has just been going on for SO LONG without any input from TJ that many of us are seriously frustrated, is all.

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I don't know why you'd slap at Starscream just for offering an idea. Just because you guys have "everything worked out just how you want it" doesn't mean fresh ideas shouldn't be offered. Furthermore, there's a whole lot of "we want exactly this" but not a lot of "why we think this will improve the game". I could be wrong but didn't the bossman ask for more of the why, and let him figure out exactly the how?

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On 23.1.2015 at 11:54 PM, TJ09 said:

Prize dragons are way more likely to happen than CB hybrids. I'd rather not have CBs of breeds that were never intended to be CB becoming anything close to the "norm."

 

On 24.1.2015 at 12:26 AM, TJ09 said:

Prices could go a few ways:

 

* Manually set (e.g. by me). That requires a lot of by-hand work, but allows for fine-tuning.

* Set based on the breed's target ("ideal") rarity. This means that over-/under- population is ignored in prices.

* Set based on current actual rarity. Overpopulated breeds would be made more expensive, and underpopulated

 

The whole thing with setting a price is that it defines the value of a given thing. Right now, the value is whatever people are willing to barter for, but it seems that trading values will swing wildly to vaguely match what the prices are, which is the site dictating the value of an egg, rather than you deciding for your self.

 

On 24.1.2015 at 12:40 AM, TJ09 said:

One thing I just thought of (and thus haven't thought through) is some sort of percentile system.

 

That is: Rather than having prices, you put in an offer for an egg. Only the top 20% of offers (that is, the most expensive offers) get the egg; everyone else tries again later (perhaps with only 80% refunded, to stop people from continuously offering when they don't know). The site can show the current average price (or the winning price from the previous day).

 

Thus, the price is still set by whatever people are willing to pay, and there's also incentive to try to pick a good price, rather than just spamming a low one and hoping no one else "bids" high.

 

But that's essentially some form of an auction.

 

On 24.1.2015 at 1:14 AM, TJ09 said:

Random prices is something I did with Leetle Adoptables. It was kind of annoying not knowing if you should wait for the price to go down or if you aren't going to see a better price.

 

On 28.7.2016 at 2:01 AM, TJ09 said:

 

I agree with the sentiment here. I haven't been able to follow the thread because I look away for a few days and suddenly it goes in a fully different direction. It seems like this idea is falling victim to "scope creep" (incrementally expanding the feature set more and more). I'd like to see more of a focus on the core mechanics, and stop there for now.

If a store is implemented, it's not going to have everything all at once, it's going to be "a store where you can buy things with currency" at first, with a few basic ways to get said currency.

 

So focus on answers to the following questions (you pretty much already have these), and leave everything else for "version 2":

  • What can you buy?
  • How do you buy it/how are prices determined? (note that this explicitly doesn't say "what are the prices")
  • How do you get currency to buy things?
  • What limitations (if any) exist on the previous points?
  • What are the possible expansion points? (just single sentences of what can maybe happen in the future, not fully-fleshed-out)

If you're good with those, then that's fine for now, but when I look at the first post, it's a massive essay in need of simplification.

 

These are the TJ posts I found in this very thread. There were a couple more (most of them on page 22, I think, the others a couple of pages before that), but they were strictly off-topic.

By now, the OP answers the question of what you can buy, how prices are determined, how you get currency and which limitations exist.


The only point not covered in there is the other possible expansion points.

(Potions for bred eggs hatching alt / non-alt, BSA-scrolls... but really, the most important part of it is that we're able to buy CB dragons from the Cave biome from the store.)

 

So, this has been sitting here, waiting for TJ's approval or critique for over a year. (Last edit of the OP was in Januray 2017.)

Edited by olympe

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I was thinking more in terms of this post from the Transparency thread rather than anything he's posted in this thread. Maybe instead of telling him exactly how we want it implemented we should try to convince him why it's a good idea for the game. Things have been bounced around some all along but I'm not sure it's been comprehensively discussed why we think adding an in-game (not for sale with real $$) currency and method of buying eggs would be good for the game.

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