Trader's Canyon

[Thuban]

So...  raising blockers would be something optional AND a mechanism to earn shards.... minigames would be optional but NOT a mechanism to earn points.... And that is not meant to influence people playstyle?

"I personally feel" would probably have been a better phrasing.

 

As games havent been worked out, I have no idea how they would work to earn points.. or discounts. I dont know where they fit into the suggestion anymore, only that eventually, they will get thrown back in if people insist on them being a thing.

 

The blocker thing.. i think was fleshed out, but to be fair im not completely up to date on what was settled on. Raising dragons IS part of the game though, so it makes sense to earn shards.. mini games.. were just for fun event things.. hence my feeling that they should stay "just for fun".

 

 

None of this has to do with the current topic of PRICES though. Prices are to be the focus.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Thuban

[SullenCat]

"I personally feel" would probably have been a better phrasing.

 

As games havent been worked out, I have no idea how they would work to earn points.. or discounts. I dont know where they fit into the suggestion anymore, only that eventually, they will get thrown back in if people insist on them being a thing.

 

The blocker thing.. i think was fleshed out, but to be fair im not completely up to date on what was settled on. Raising dragons IS part of the game though, so it makes sense to earn shards.. mini games.. were just for fun event things.. hence my feeling that they should stay "just for fun".

 

 

None of this has to do with the current topic of PRICES though. Prices are to be the focus.

Not a problem. I bumped up the original ways-to-earn topic, the one that focus on games.

 

Back to Prices...

I fully agree that the most expensive item should be the CB Gold 'until something newer, rarer, and most importantly "catchable" comes along'. Are we still thinking 6 months of points? More? If Holidays are at 2-3 months, where does that leave CB Tinsels and Shimmers?

What about 8 months for the Golds, 6 for any Tinsel or Shimmer since they reproduce the same way?

 

[olympe]

I feel I must join the "please no more raffles!" crowd. I positively hate RNG, chance and luck, probably because I lack the latter.

 

Although I don't mind mini-games as a way to earn shards up to the weekly cap, I'm a great fan of getting bonus shards for raising a number of announced blockers that can go beyond the weekly cap. It would not only be a way to earn some extras, but also limit players to a certain amount of extra points. At the same time, it will help with balancing ratios and make people actually pick up the blockers in the biomes, thereby moving eggs along. Probably a win-win-win situation.

 

If you don't like keeping more than a certain amount of dragons on your scroll, you can still catch, hatch and raise them only to release them directly afterwards.

[Thuban]

Back to Prices...

I fully agree that the most expensive item should be the CB Gold 'until something newer, rarer, and most importantly "catchable" comes along'. Are we still thinking 6 months of points? More? If Holidays are at 2-3 months, where does that leave CB Tinsels and Shimmers?

What about 8 months for the Golds, 6 for any Tinsel or Shimmer since they reproduce the same way?

If golds are set to a hard 6 months of points (7800) then Prizes could be anywhere equal to or less than that. If I didnt have to worry about how current prize owners would feel about it, I think it would be fair to price them 4-6 months. The difference between the prize owners prizes, and the store prizes though is that store prizes will not come with the /option/ of picking a code (that is something that will stay raffle/special occasions only, sorry)

 

The past few days of looking through whats been said... in my mind, the simplest solution is:

Price holidays at 3 months, prizes at 4/5 months, golds at 6. Everything else can just be randomly assigned a price weekly that is equivelent to the tier you guys assigned them to (so if tier one is what you guys are considering to be "common" then their price would be anywhere between three days of points, to whatever tier 2 range is. As i do not recall what you guys decided on the price ranges being specifically, im not sure how practical it is.

 

 

[NotBambi]

If golds are set to a hard 6 months of points (7800) then Prizes could be anywhere equal to or less than that. If I didnt have to worry about how current prize owners would feel about it, I think it would be fair to price them 4-6 months. The difference between the prize owners prizes, and the store prizes though is that store prizes will not come with the /option/ of picking a code (that is something that will stay raffle/special occasions only, sorry)

 

The past few days of looking through whats been said... in my mind, the simplest solution is:

Price holidays at 3 months, prizes at 4/5 months, golds at 6. Everything else can just be randomly assigned a price weekly that is equivelent to the tier you guys assigned them to (so if tier one is what you guys are considering to be "common" then their price would be anywhere between three days of points, to whatever tier 2 range is. As i do not recall what you guys decided on the price ranges being specifically, im not sure how practical it is.

No offense intended but the current prize owners are a minority, didn't take them months to earn those CBs and got a lot of advantages for (at least) one year and three months. Any way we look at it, their exclusivity will be a thing of the past as soon as (if) the store gets announced and includes CB Tinsels and CB Shimmers.

I'm 100% on board with the simplest solution you mentioned, that really makes sense.

[Fiona]

Which raffle are you referencing on #3?

Oops. I meant on the store. *blush* Raffles on the mind I'm afraid. Someone suggested giving some bonus or starting points when it's introduced. I'd be ok with that.

 

 

I had the mini games in there too and changed my mind about saying anything about it before hitting "Add Reply". It just seemed outside our current discussion. I'd just rather have a trickle of extra points from some source rather than limiting how many prizes we can ever get.

 

 

Thu's pricing is interesting. If we adopt that scale we have less friction over the price of getting prizes, which in my mind eases the press over such things as extra points.

 

Gotta finish reading to catch up with the discussion.

 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Fiona BlueFire

[SullenCat]

Oops. I meant on the store. *blush* Raffles on the mind I'm afraid. Someone suggested giving some bonus or starting points when it's introduced. I'd be ok with that.

 

 

I had the mini games in there too and changed my mind about saying anything about it before hitting "Add Reply". It just seemed outside our current discussion. I'd just rather have a trickle of extra points from some source rather than limiting how many prizes we can ever get.

 

 

Thu's pricing is interesting. If we adopt that scale we have less friction over the price of getting prizes, which in my mind eases the press over such things as extra points.

 

Gotta finish reading to catch up with the discussion.

No problem, I was a bit confused but that's not unusual, I'm confused 50% of the time. I assume you were agreeing with Sin's "enrollment bonus", I would compare it to the points you get when you join Delta's rewards program or such. Not that Delta is something you should fly with but... I digress.

 

The past few days of looking through whats been said... in my mind, the simplest solution is:

Price holidays at 3 months, prizes at 4/5 months, golds at 6. Everything else can just be randomly assigned a price weekly that is equivelent to the tier you guys assigned them to (so if tier one is what you guys are considering to be "common" then their price would be anywhere between three days of points, to whatever tier 2 range is. As i do not recall what you guys decided on the price ranges being specifically, im not sure how practical it is.

Yes, yes and yes!

[olympe]

Yes, Thuban's system is pretty simple - and simple is what usually works best on DC. Of course, we'd still need to agree on some uncommon prices (trios, xenos, coppers, blusangs, lunar heralds) as well as those of some "elevated commons" (GW, gemshards, everything else deemed common yet special, BSA dragons...)

[NotBambi]

I'm shamelessly plagiarizing Fiona's proposal, adapting it to Thuban's, and converting some of Fiona's numbers to months.

 

Tier 5:

Gold - 1:1 (6 months)

Silver - 1:0.83 (4.98, rounding to 5 months)

Copper (all three colors) - 1:0.67 (4.02, rounding to 4 months)

Prizes (all species, all colors) - 1:0.67 to 1:0.83 (from 4 to 5 months)

 

Tier 4:

All Holidays - 1:0.5 (3 months)

 

Tier 3:

All - 1:0.33 (1.98, rounding to 2 months)

 

Tier 2:

"Random" version of multi-colored - 1:0.08 (about two weeks' worth of points)

"Specific" version of multi-colored and all others - 1:0.17

 

Tier 1:

All - 1:0.04 (about a weeks' worth of points)

 

 

Am I missing or incorrectly stating something?

[olympe]

Specifics should be a little more expensive, as they are something like an "easy way out" of having to collect multiples to get the target color. Maybe more like 6 weeks' worth of points (1:0.24)

[Thuban]

Specifics should be a little more expensive, as they are something like an "easy way out" of having to collect multiples to get the target color. Maybe more like 6 weeks' worth of points (1:0.24)

why not just put specific colors right even with Tier 3?

 

"You can hatch a ton of blanks and hope you get the right color, or pay more and know for a fact you are getting the color you need."

 

 

Thoughts on out of season things (if we are letting them happen):

Since i dont follow your numbers, my thoughts on out of season things is they should start AT gold level (out of season seasonals) and get higher for out of season holidays (if you are trying to get a holly in summer, I'd think it should be quite expensive, but perhaps paying more would also get rid of that whole "have to wait until following year" thing I keep insisting on?

[olympe]

I'd really prefer if holiday were only available during or close to their breeding season. I actually quite like the proposal to have them available from one week prior to the breeding season up to one week afterwards, but at higher prices than during the week itself.

[NotBambi]

Just to avoid confusing people, couldn't we keep the "specific" on the relative tier while modifying the prices? Merging Fiona's and Thuban's ideas would look like this:

 

 

Tier 5 (Metals):

Gold - 1:1 (6 months)

Silver - 1:0.83 (4.98, rounding to 5 months)

Copper (all three colors) - 1:0.67 (4.02, rounding to 4 months)

Prizes (all species, all colors) - 1:0.67 to 1:0.83 (from 4 to 5 months)

 

Tier 4 (Holidays):

All Holidays - 1:0.5 (3 months)

 

Tier 3 (BSA Group BSA aka Trios and Unbreedables):

All - 1:0.33 (1.98, rounding to 2 months)

 

Tier 2 (Multiple CB Color Morph):

"Random" version of multi-colored - 1:0.08 (about two weeks' worth of points)

"Specific" version of multi-colored and all others - 1:0.24 to 1:0.33 (6 weeks to 2 months)

 

Tier 1 (Everything Else Available):

All - 1:0.04 (about a weeks' worth of points)

 

ETA:

Gals, I beg you, keep it simple. Imagine one of us thinking "OK, if I get the Yulebuck before 11:59 PM cave time, equivalent to 4:59 AM my time (gosh is this right?), I will save n points".

 

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by NotBambi

[Thuban]

lol fine, I prefer holidays only available their time of year anyhow (week before and after is acceptable)

[Fiona]

Rather than graduating the prices of holidays depending on when you got it I would much rather keep the prices of holidays the same no matter when you get it. As NotBambi's example would indicate, people would plot to buy when they're cheap even if it means using a slot during holiday breeding.

 

I understand the thinking behind the idea, plus the idea of having them available the week before holiday breeding and the week after holiday breeding, I just don't really care for having graduated prices.

 

As for making holidays available completely outside their normal breeding window, well... I'm not going to tell you I hate it, but I'd never do it. If I can pay 3900 shards for a Holly at Christmas time why would I pay more than twice that some other time? Just exercise a bit of patience and buy it in season so I can use those points for another couple fun dragons, like Shadow Walkers. Or Prizes.

 

I think Seasonals out of season are a bit different as they were never a limited release dragon. I did like the idea of only being able to buy them in the opposite season. So during spring you could buy cheap Springs or expensive Autumns. During summer you could buy cheap Summers or expensive Winters, etc. If specific colors of nebulae, etc. are tier 3, why not make out of season Seasonals tier 4? Still pretty expensive but not ridiculous.

[SullenCat]

Rather than graduating the prices of holidays depending on when you got it I would much rather keep the prices of holidays the same no matter when you get it. As NotBambi's example would indicate, people would plot to buy when they're cheap even if it means using a slot during holiday breeding.

 

I understand the thinking behind the idea, plus the idea of having them available the week before holiday breeding and the week after holiday breeding, I just don't really care for having graduated prices.

 

As for making holidays available completely outside their normal breeding window, well... I'm not going to tell you I hate it, but I'd never do it. If I can pay 3900 shards for a Holly at Christmas time why would I pay more than twice that some other time? Just exercise a bit of patience and buy it in season so I can use those points for another couple fun dragons, like Shadow Walkers. Or Prizes.

 

I think Seasonals out of season are a bit different as they were never a limited release dragon. I did like the idea of only being able to buy them in the opposite season. So during spring you could buy cheap Springs or expensive Autumns. During summer you could buy cheap Summers or expensive Winters, etc. If specific colors of nebulae, etc. are tier 3, why not make out of season Seasonals tier 4? Still pretty expensive but not ridiculous.

The scheme based on Fiona's and Thuban's input and presented by NotBambi looks really good.

Not sure how I got to agree with so many people, but I share Fiona's opinion: I can't see myself spending points on out-of-season Holidays but a 3-weeks season sounds just fine.

Since we seem to agree on 6 months for a CB Gold, could we accept 4 months of points as the initial enrollment bonus? That would mitigate olympe's concerns on instant gratification and ratios, people would have time to think about what and when to spend or save.

[Fuzzbucket]

#1: no raffles, please. I'd as soon there never be another raffle in any form here.

 

This, oh so much this. A huge part of the reason we have a problem at all is - the raffles we have had.

[gigglymonkey12]

This, oh so much this. A huge part of the reason we have a problem at all is - the raffles we have had.

right....so....I left dc for about 3 years or so...what are raffles? I kept getting lost reading this thread because I didn't understand the background information.

[olympe]

Raffles were those things were some lucky winners got an exclusive dragon, namely a Shimmerscale or a Tinsel or an honorable mention, which, for most, was either a CB holly (sometimes influenced female), a frill (year 1, at least - although, technically, that wasn't a raffle, but the tree decorating contest) or a CB hybrid/alt black. /offtopic

 

Just to avoid confusing people, couldn't we keep the "specific" on the relative tier while modifying the prices? Merging Fiona's and Thuban's ideas would look like this:

 

 

Tier 5 (Metals):

Gold - 1:1 (6 months)

Silver - 1:0.83 (4.98, rounding to 5 months)

Copper (all three colors) - 1:0.67  (4.02, rounding to 4 months)

Prizes (all species, all colors) - 1:0.67 to 1:0.83  (from 4 to 5 months)

 

Tier 4 (Holidays):

All Holidays - 1:0.5 (3 months)

 

Tier 3 (BSA and Unbreedables):

All - 1:0.33 (1.98, rounding to 2 months)

 

Tier 2 (Multiple CB Color Morph):

"Random" version of multi-colored - 1:0.08 (about two weeks' worth of points)

"Specific" version of multi-colored and all others - 1:0.24 to 1:0.33 (6 weeks to 2 months)

 

Tier 1 (Everything Else Available):

All - 1:0.04 (about a weeks' worth of points)

 

ETA:

Gals, I beg you, keep it simple. Imagine one of us thinking "OK, if I get the Yulebuck before 11:59 PM cave time, equivalent to 4:59 AM my time (gosh is this right?), I will save n points".

 

Seriously? BSA and unbreedables on Tier 3? A pink/red/magi/purple, all of which are pretty common, should cost the points of two months? Or was this supposed to read Trios and Unbreedables instead?

 

I'd rather have BSAs be somewhere between Tier 1 and Tier 2 at most (twice as expensive as Tier 1 dragons). If we don't want to add another tier, let's put them in Tier 1.

[Ruby Eyes]

... or an honorable mention, which, for most, was either a CB holly (sometimes influenced female), a frill (year 1, at least - although, technically, that wasn't a raffle, but the tree decorating contest) or a CB hybrid/alt black. /offtopic

The last raffle for which HMs were offered (season 2013), Frills were also still allowed. Not allowed were Prizes, NDs, Halloweens, Valentine's and old Pinks, as far as I recall. I'm not sure about GoNs, and Avatars did not exist back then. If you wanted a female CB Holly, you'd need to influence it yourself.

So I suspect that the rules for HMs never changed, as long as they were offered at all. I wonder if it shocked TJ that 2 people actually chose a Hybrid in the last one.

[Fiona]

Seriously? BSA and unbreedables on Tier 3? A pink/red/magi/purple, all of which are pretty common, should cost the points of two months? Or was this supposed to read Trios and Unbreedables instead?

 

I'd rather have BSAs be somewhere between Tier 1 and Tier 2 at most (twice as expensive as Tier 1 dragons). If we don't want to add another tier, let's put them in Tier 1.

The thing she took that from had "group BSAs" - i.e. Trios, there. Not Pinks, Reds, etc.

 

I could see those in Tier 2 as they're so useful, but actually, pretty sure all of us put them in Tier 1.

 

[olympe]

Since tier 2 is divided into "random version of breed with multiple color morphs" at 2 weeks' worth of collecting and "chosen version of breed with multiple color morphs" at 6-8 weeks' worth of collecting, I'm fine with putting BSAs there at 2-3 weeks' worth of collecting.

[NotBambi]

The thing she took that from had "group BSAs" - i.e. Trios, there. Not Pinks, Reds, etc.

 

I could see those in Tier 2 as they're so useful, but actually, pretty sure all of us put them in Tier 1.

Yep, my mistake, amended (I think).

 

 

Tier 5 (Metals):

Gold - 1:1 (6 months)

Silver - 1:0.83 (4.98, rounding to 5 months)

Copper (all three colors) - 1:0.67 (4.02, rounding to 4 months)

Prizes (all species, all colors) - 1:0.67 to 1:0.83 (from 4 to 5 months)

 

Tier 4 (Holidays):

All Holidays - 1:0.5 (3 months)

 

Tier 3 (Trios and Unbreedables):

All - 1:0.33 (1.98, rounding to 2 months)

 

Tier 2 (Multiple CB Color Morph and non-Trio BSAs):

"Random" version of multi-colored - 1:0.08 (about two weeks' worth of points)

"Specific" version of multi-colored and all others - 1:0.24 to 1:0.33 (6 weeks to 2 months)

BSA (not Trios) - 1:0.08 to 1:0.12 (2 to 3 weeks)

 

Tier 1 (Everything Else Available):

All - 1:0.04 (about a weeks' worth of points)

 

Is ^this^ correct?

Edited May 15, 2016 by NotBambi

[olympe]

Much better.

 

I'd still like to have a BSA starter pack with one red, one magi and one pink of each gender to get new players started on BSA dragons - or to make them aware of what a BSA is and what the most important ones are used for. This starter pack should come at a discount and with an explanation, but be available only once for a new player (bronze trophy or below).

[NotBambi]

Much better.

 

I'd still like to have a BSA starter pack with one red, one magi and one pink of each gender to get new players started on BSA dragons - or to make them aware of what a BSA is and what the most important ones are used for. This starter pack should come at a discount and with an explanation, but be available only once for a new player (bronze trophy or below).

If everybody gets 4 months of "introductory" points, that should be more than enough to cover a BSA pack, no?