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Thuban

Trader's Canyon

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Overall, this idea would help disadvantaged players, such as those with horrible internet speed or bad reflexes or the inability to spend hours camped in the cave, obtain the rare dragons that are otherwise essentially unobtainable to them. It takes brief periods of normal gameplay actions to earn your point maximum for the week. It takes dedication to the game, coming back week after week after week, to earn the points necessary for seriously rare dragons like golds and silvers, and even longer for currently unobtainable dragons like prizes. But at the same time, as Thu said, the points don't expire, so if you have to take some time off you aren't hurt by any more than not being able to earn points for the weeks you missed. But it makes those rares eventually obtainable to those who can only dream of them with the current system. At the same time, though, they aren't being devalued by this system because it still takes time and effort to earn them.

 

I'm with Thu. We worked hard to specifically design this idea so that it would put low time players at as minimal a disadvantage as possible. Thu outlined them very nicely, so please, taking them into account, explain what is still wrong with this idea.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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I have a question about the bonus dragons we could earn extra points with.

How would we know which breed/s are bonus dragons?

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Overall, this idea would help disadvantaged players, such as those with horrible internet speed or bad reflexes or the inability to spend hours camped in the cave, obtain the rare dragons that are otherwise essentially unobtainable to them. It takes brief periods of normal gameplay actions to earn your point maximum for the week. It takes dedication to the game, coming back week after week after week, to earn the points necessary for seriously rare dragons like golds and silvers, and even longer for currently unobtainable dragons like prizes. But at the same time, as Thu said, the points don't expire, so if you have to take some time off you aren't hurt by any more than not being able to earn points for the weeks you missed. But it makes those rares eventually obtainable to those who can only dream of them with the current system. At the same time, though, they aren't being devalued by this system because it still takes time and effort to earn them.

 

I'm with Thu. We worked hard to specifically design this idea so that it would put low time players at as minimal a disadvantage as possible. Thu outlined them very nicely, so please, taking them into account, explain what is still wrong with this idea.

This. I am NOT wild about the whole idea, as it effectively brings in VALUES, which I deplore - but it is far and away the fairest way for users to get whatever dragon they want - even if it will take absolutely ages for some of them. But - those with internet/physical/time issues will be able to save up enough points in the end - and will get the dragons they want so much just as soon as they would camping in the cave when they have a few minutes, or hoping against hope to win a raffle. The raffle has skewed this place a zillion times more than the store ever will - as long as the points are earned by regular game play rather than any kind of grinding.

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I have a question about the bonus dragons we could earn extra points with.

How would we know which breed/s are bonus dragons?

The bonus dragons would have to be announced somewhere, obviously. Like on the help page, or the cave entrance. "Purple Dorsal dragons, Deep Sea Dragons, Water Horses and Whiptails are currently underpopulated. Maybe you can help raising their numbers?"

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I have a question about the bonus dragons we could earn extra points with.

How would we know which breed/s are bonus dragons?

Im hoping that Cyradis will expand on that for you. As its not part of the original idea, i'm waiting on it to be fleshed out more, before I attempt adding it to my post.

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I have a question about the bonus dragons we could earn extra points with.

How would we know which breed/s are bonus dragons?

I'm thinking it would be some area of the store, that they'd be announced in, and your tally would be kept.

 

Also, I'm thinking it'd be best re-calculated on a monthly basis, say the first of every month. That gives people time to build up a respectable collection, and increases the chances of making a really good impression on one of the breeds.

 

It could also be done weekly, but I'd say no shorter than 1 week. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to reliably predict which breed gets the bonus when you grab the eggs.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'd think more like monthly ?

 

With a sign up in the store (like !) "This month's special offer: double points for each anagallis you raise to adulthood. Triple points for each spotted greenwing."

 

Just like when you go to the supermarket and see "1000 bonus Pluspoints when you buy a 1 kg can of Maxwell House." (I wish I LIKED Maxwell House... I couldn't quite bring myself, the day I saw that...)

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I favor a monthly deal too.

 

and some are going to see the deal and happily pounce on it because they like Maxwell House, some are going to shrug and decide it's worth it for the bonus points even though Maxwell House isn't their favorite and some will decide they can't bring themselves to drink the Maxwell House and turn away hoping next month's deal is something they like better. In the long run it will suit everyone well enough.

 

Add these deals to the "punt unpicked up eggs to the AP instead of deleting them" idea and we'd have more balanced ratios in no time. More active cave = more active players and the store would keep those who struggle with time/physical issues/internet issues coming back because they could finally get the yummy dragons they've only been able to dream of before. Heck, it would keep me more active. I can't really hunt the biomes anymore. I don't have the reflexes or internet connection to even see the good stuff nor the time and patience to stalk it for hours on end. I'm finding myself playing less and less, often going for a week or more at a time with an empty or nearly empty scroll.

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I favor a monthly deal too.

 

and some are going to see the deal and happily pounce on it because they like Maxwell House,

blink.gif You ARE kidding, right ? blink.giflaugh.gif

 

But yes - I think "special offer" boards are the "easy" way to do it.

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So the ideas for the "Special Offers" board are as follows:

 

- Only breeds that are the most under-populated will be eligible for it

- The bonus period is 1 month. So at the start of the month, the bonus breeds are calculated, and those are the ones for that month.

 

- Raising one of the bonus dragons gives you bonus points, which are in addition to your point limit (ie, you can go over the limit by raising these)

- The bonus points awarded will be no more than 10% of the total points you can get for raising a dragon (ie, if raising a dragon from an egg to adult nets you 3 points, then the bonus for raising a certain breed would be 0.3 pts).

- There is no limit to the amount of bonus points you can get, but you can ONLY get them by having a bonus breed (ie, blocker) grow / freeze on your scroll in the time of the bonus.

- As these dragons are the ones that are the most negatively affecting game play, this is done to strongly encourage people to raise them to even out their ratios

- As the bonus they give is limited only by how many dragons can grow on your scroll, the bonus they give is very small in comparison to what you can get for raising the dragon itself.

 

- You are awarded the bonus when the dragon is either frozen or becomes adult.

- Frozen and adults award the same bonus, since they count to the ratios the same (this is an assumption and why adults and frozen grant the same, if they don't count to the ratios the same, then....)

 

Basically, what you are doing is rewarding the most active users for doing a community service: raising blockers. That, in turn, helps balance the ratios.... Which gets the Biomes moving (and helps breeding), which in turn brings more people into the game and keeps them there. As well as helping those who are NOT willing to have hoards of blockers on their scroll a better chance at what they want.

 

 

How bonus breeds are selected:

The most under-populated breed is always on the board

 

Then, one of two methods could be used to add more:

- A breed is added if they are x% below their "ideal" population (x to be chosen by TJ, ideally to have 4 to 6 breeds on the board)

- 4 additional breeds randomly selected from the 15 most-underpopulated breeds (or out of the 15% most under populated)

 

Did I miss anything / anything odd? I'm running on very little sleep....

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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A Notice board sounds good.

 

I really like this whole Idea. I only hunt new realeases now and then only in the first few days. I'm to lazy to stare at the cave for hours.

I mainly breed Lineages or to freeze the hatchlings.

So the Store would give me a reason to raise blockers when I again didn't get the eggs I need for my Lineages and my freeze action is on cooldown. Instead of leaving my scroll empty.

 

~Peij

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I have read quite bit about this suggestion from other threads and what I have heard about it I supported. So thought it time to actually read this thread. I still have not read it all tongue.gif

 

One thing I just thought of (and thus haven't thought through) is some sort of percentile system.

 

That is: Rather than having prices, you put in an offer for an egg. Only the top 20% of offers (that is, the most expensive offers) get the egg; everyone else tries again later (perhaps with only 80% refunded, to stop people from continuously offering when they don't know). The site can show the current average price (or the winning price from the previous day).

 

Thus, the price is still set by whatever people are willing to pay, and there's also incentive to try to pick a good price, rather than just spamming a low one and hoping no one else "bids" high.

 

But that's essentially some form of an auction.

I know you stated you were brainstorming and had not thought it all through. Auction / barter / gamble system. I KNOW this is already done to some level via trade offers, but that is unofficial and not in-game. Having this Officially part of the actual game just rubs me wrong. Especially considering there are a number of younger players.

 

It also "could" counter the whole idea of this suggestion. The fact that every player with some effort over time can get any item in the store. If this is done in way that only top 20% offered, this could still end up being the players whom already are getting most the better dragons still getting most of them.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

After actually reading some of this thread, I still SUPPORT this idea overall.

 

Currency: Points vs Mana

I think Mana is cool idea and it even fits in with the new elements and I really want to like it, but in the end I just cant. Why? The proposed Mana system just adds too much complexity. This is a simple clicky game. Sure over time as things get added, certain aspects of the game have gotten more complicated and less easy to understand (breeding habits of certain breeds, color moon phases, etc, etc). The game will continue to get less easy (or grow stale) but why purposely add to this when it is not really needed. The Store alone is adding a new feature, so why not keep it as simple as possible, the Point system will accomplish that.

 

I am not opposed to even calling it Mana, but prefer to leave out all the proposed varying amounts of elements. Just one unit is all that is needed no matter what you actually call it.

 

Which Dragons available in Store:

I am not opposed to any dragons being available. If they were available in any of the Raffles, I am fine with them being available in the Store. Meaning all CB regardless of rarity, CB Hybrids, CB Alts, Prizes, Holidays, or anything else I may be leaving out. However this brings up.....

 

Limits:

IF all the above are available, than YES there must be limits.

Holidays should never be able to exceed scroll limits. So max anyone can get of any one particular Holidays would be 2 or less (or even Max limit 1 of each type but not to exceed Scroll Limit).

CB Hybrids should definitely have max limit, especially since TJ has already stated this, but I fully agree.

CB Alts of breeds that were never intended to be CB for same reason as above. (Blacks, Vine, Undine, Striped, or any other may be forgetting)

Prizes should be max limit of 1. Maybe one of each type (Tinsel and Shimmer) so at most max limit of 2 in total. Prefer just max of 1 though.

 

GoN:

I prefer no, but am not opposed either. Especially as long as it never exceeds scroll limit.

 

Biome:

They should be same as Prizes, GoN, or anything else gotten from the Raffles. Location: Cave

 

Ratios:

Once again, keep it as simple as possible, dont have them included in ratios. Maybe I am wrong, but I am under the impression that anything obtained from the Raffles were not included in the ratios. It should be the same for anything obtained from store as well. Yes this includes even the Commons. If someone had wanted to get a common in lieu of Prize or anything else available, I am sure it would have been treated the same. It should be no different here.

 

I have read arguments about store possibly throwing ratios out of whack. This would mostly eliminate that. Not completely as there would be few additional dragons created from breeding, but I think that is separate from Cave ratio anyway. Even if not I just do not see the limited amounts of bred Dragon via limited amounts of store Rares obtained being major impact.

 

Price Amounts:

If each dragon's price is set well and appropriately, it really should have minimal impact on the game. TJ will best know the value for each and I have full confidence in w/e price or system TJ decides to implement this. So will simply leave that up to them. If TJ is looking for ideas, I can discuss further.

 

Store Dragons Tradeable:

Leaning No. However I think it really should be the same as with Raffle dragons that were obtained. Were those tradeable? I really dont know. Keep it simple, go along with w/e those were.

 

Map:

I really see this as separate suggestion, but I will say I am strongly opposed to any exclusive special biome dragon .. or really any store exclusive dragon at all.

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I THINK I am 100% with Hawkster.... Unless I read any of that wrong !

 

Especially with any auction/barter/sheer luck system. That takes away half the point of the store, IMHO. The great thing would be that with hard work, anyone could in the end end up earning anything.

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I THINK I am 100% with Hawkster.... Unless I read any of that wrong !

 

Especially with any auction/barter/sheer luck system. That takes away half the point of the store, IMHO. The great thing would be that with hard work, anyone could in the end end up earning anything.

 

Pretty much yea. If there is some sort of auction / barter thing, it needs to be in addition to the normal store.

 

As for Ratios, why do you think Prizes aren't part of the ratios? I've always assumed that they were, in fact, part of the ratios. And really, there arn't enough of them to make much difference. And if the store prices are high enough / limited as you suggest, enough of them won't be added to make a difference.

 

Trading:

Raffles did it both ways: First few years were tradable, this past year was not. I'm inclined to say "no" to trading CBs from the store, that way.... you have to build up your own points total rather than use an ability to grab tons of CB Golds to get the really rare stuff.

 

Limits:

There are two ways to go about this.

 

A direct limit: Each person gets 1 of each, it takes x amount of points to get them, and once they get them.... They can get *nothing else* from the top bracket. If you can get each one in 6 months.... Then in 2 years, you have what you can get from the store and it becomes something vestigial, like the appendix, and has no interest for you anymore. There's also no more reason for you to collect commons, or be active in the game.

 

Indirect Limits: each of the top tier takes a long time for even the most active players to get. 1 year, for example.

How indirect limits work is, if someone wanted to have 1 CB Tinsel, 1 CB Shimmer, 1 CB Hybrid, and 1 CB Alt.... It would take them a minimum of 4 years, saving their points, to get those 4 dragons. If they want 6 of the top tier? It'd take them 6 years. In the end, what they can get is spread out over a long time period, but each person can get what they want. So if someone wants to get all CB Tinsels, they can. If another wants all CB Hybrids, they can.... so long as they spend those 4 or 6 years in active play. In the end, Prize vs Hybrid vs Alt will all even out.

 

I'm in favor of indirect limits.

Direct limits force people to play a certain way, whereas indirect limits set bounds on what they can do within which they have freedom to make a variety of choices. Our scroll limits are indirect limits: they limit what we can do over time, but what we do within those limits is up to us. The CB Holiday limits are direct limits: we can only get two of that breed as CBs..... Ever.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

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As for Ratios, why do you think Prizes aren't part of the ratios? I've always assumed that they were, in fact, part of the ratios. And really, there arn't enough of them to make much difference. And if the store prices are high enough / limited as you suggest, enough of them won't be added to make a difference.

Bred Prize dragons definitely have some sort of ratio. So as long as we are not discussing that....

 

Why? for 2 reasons I have heard. (assumptions really)

 

1) In short they prolly do, but it is irrelevant as it is not counted or applied.

 

I have heard many times that bred dragons do not impact in cave dragons. IF indeed true, than this means that they are completely separated somehow into two categories (in cave vs bred). So technically it prolly does have set ratio given somewhere. However, by separating it, this allows one to have a table specifically for In Cave dragons. That table should not have any dragons in it that the cave can not generate. Prizes will never spawn in cave and so will never impact those in-cave ratios. Ratios in-cave affects and controls numbers of how many of each type of dragon is likely to spawn. Where as ratio for breeding (which can be same ratio) really only controls the % chance of producing an egg or which parent it comes from.

 

Anyway, more than likely the in-cave dragons normally created will prolly have a counter that keeps track of all dragons created. But since the Prize was never generated actually in-cave, it will not have been counted by that counter. This would still be the same if someone had chosen CB Gold for example from the Raffle. Cave did not physically generate it and so would not be counted on in-cave counter.

 

2) I thought I recalled hearing at one point that any dragons from Raffle were not counted. Which makes sense with above.

 

But yea, I fully agree with you. Even if I am completely wrong with those assumptions. I still think the numbers we see from the store will not make much difference.

 

Trading:

Ah well that makes it more difficult than. Game play and expected rules should be familiar. Uniform. When something new comes out, player already partly knows what to expect when everything is kept similar. So keeping the same rules as was applied in previous Raffles would just have kept game easier. Not only that but some players will complain about things like this "Raffle prizes could be traded, why cant I trade this waaaa waaaa waaa". But since they changed over time..... well fudge is all I can say lol.

 

I personally preferred that Store dragons be locked to your scroll, but thought I recalled that Raffle dragons were not. So guess I will butt out and stick with what I first said .. however it was done in Raffle is fine by me biggrin.gif

 

As to Limits. Meh I prefer some ways over others, but really my biggest concern is that there are some for any of those special types of dragons will be available I listed above. Yes Limits without question. Specifically how is all up to preferences and matters of opinion. My biggest concern is that they never supersede scroll limits currently established .. which I doubt TJ would anyway.

Edited by Hawkster

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~snip~

 

I have heard many times that bred dragons do not impact in cave dragons. IF indeed true, than this means that they are completely separated somehow into two categories (in cave vs bred). So technically it prolly does have set ratio given somewhere. However, by separating it, this allows one to have a table specifically for In Cave dragons. That table should not have any dragons in it that the cave can not generate. Prizes will never spawn in cave and so will never impact those in-cave ratios. Ratios in-cave affects and controls numbers of how many of each type of dragon is likely to spawn. Where as ratio for breeding (which can be same ratio) really only controls the % chance of producing an egg or which parent it comes from.

 

~snip~

I too have heard this. But my *personal* experience shows that it is *false*, just like 99% of the rumors I've heard on DC have turned out to be.

 

When Blacks went Rare, they were rare in breeding AND in the Cave.

When Stripes went Rare, they were rare in breeding AND in the Cave.

When Seasonals went Rare, they were rare in breeding AND in the Cave.

 

And the whole rumor started from a *miss-interpreted* statement TJ made. I don't have the link to it (Sock, do you still have it?), but I do remember it. Something about the linkage between Cave and Breeding was broken about.... 6 years ago? And he fixed it. People took that to mean there was no link, which is not supported by his statement. (Typical, actually. I've lost track of how many rumors have been proven false by linking to TJ's actual post).

 

Now, as for Almondines.... TJ has stated that the number of Almondines generated is the same as the other two ( https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=9162443 ) so I have no theory as to why they breed like Blockers (all three equally) but CB Almondines trade for CB Golds but the Pyrals are considered one step up from blockers.

 

 

 

Re Trading, I think that if all store dragons are scroll locked right from the git-go, there will be no confusion. "Store dragons can not leave your scroll, nor can they be bitten" sounds reasonable enough to me.

 

And yea, I agree, the only way to get a Store dragon is if you already have room on your scroll in its normal limits.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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As far as the raffle trading being removed, I don't think that was due to outcry. I think that was more because next year TJ had a silly amount of multi scrollers win the raffle. So it was obvious people were spam creating scrolls just to get tickets. If the store eggs are locked to a scroll, that inhibits cheaters from creating 100+ scrolls to farm CB golds etc. And they will, seen it happen on other sites.

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As far as the raffle trading being removed, I don't think that was due to outcry. I think that was more because next year TJ had a silly amount of multi scrollers win the raffle. So it was obvious people were spam creating scrolls just to get tickets. If the store eggs are locked to a scroll, that inhibits cheaters from creating 100+ scrolls to farm CB golds etc. And they will, seen it happen on other sites.

Yes. I have no plans to budge on the store eggs being locked to a scroll. Now if the store happens and TJ decides they should be tradable, then by all means.. but as my suggestion stands, I have no plans to budge.

 

 

The one thing your summary is missing though is how long it will take each and every one of those multiple scrolls to earn an egg. The people that are that committed to cheating, would HAVE to commit to playing each and every one of those scrolls, at least long enough to max out the points earned per day (once that system is finalized). Its still likely it would take 8+ months to earn them, based on the rough numbers I had been giving all along... which is an awful lot of commitment for one single egg that they had no plans to keep. Playing those scrolls to make those eggs happen increases the liklihood that they would be caught, sure... but by keeping the eggs locked to specific scrolls, we are in fact discouraging that aspect of things.

 

to be fair though, originally it was ONLY the prizes and cb hybrids that werent going to be tradable tongue.gif It wasnt until we had decided to give them all the "cave" tag that we decided that EVERY egg would be untradable.

Edited by Thuban

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It never ceases to amaze and appall me how far cheaters will go to cheat. And how much time and money they'll spend doing it. I wouldn't mind people trading them at all but I recognize the problem it would create sad.gif

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Thank you cyradis4 for clarifying that and SockPuppet for actually providing the links. I did a search for that at some stage with no luck and just wondered if maybe it had been mentioned in IRC or something. So am glad to have finally gotten the clarification.

 

As to your 3 examples (Blacks, Stripes and Seasonals), those may or may not prove that false. You have given one example yourself which does not. Pyralspites* breed really easily and yet do not show up in cave with the same ease. I have personally seen another example during Holly Contest with Spitfires. Towards end of the year Spitfires still could be found in-cave, maybe slightly less than normal, but were still not that difficult to find in-cave. However, breeding towards the end of year reflected drastically different results. Breeding resulted in far less instances of producing an egg and also appeared to have far greater outright refusals. Of note, a large number of participants were hunting Spitfires from AP which were commonly bred eggs as well as breeding their own. Less often were they being hunted in-cave. Not absolute proof but does show pattern which seems to point towards disproving.

 

The fact is, it really all depends on how it is coded. While it may make sense to have them separate, as it gives more flexibility and control, that really means nothing. The way it was coded in other parts could have meant it would have been more difficult or not possible. Back to your 3 examples, I said it may not because it could simply be coded with two separate fields but usually the same / similar ratio is plugged in for both. Pyralspites could have been different from the norm, having two completely different ratios plugged in for them. It makes sense, but that really is not solid proof either. It always boils down to how it is coded and maybe there are other factors involved. For example one could start rumour from TJ recent post about Pyralspites. It infers that Pyralspites are rare, listing them among and comparing to Copper and Xenos. But while TJ may have inferred that, TJ does not point blank state this indeed true.

 

*Pyralspites. We now know for a fact that all 3 have same ratio. The biomes they appear in by nature will have an impact. Knowing that Pyropes have same ratio as other two, shows to me that biomes have more impact than I would have thought. Pyropes themself are easy to explain. Showing up in Volcano which is the second least crowded or dragons that it has to share and compete with, will by default make them appear more often. Added to that Volcano is also a popular and high trafficked area by the players (not as popular or as visited as Alpine but still one of the higher visited biomes). So end result Pyropes appears to be uncommon while other two appears to be more rare, even though ratio is same. Why do they all seem to breed like the dickens, I have already theorized the ratio might be set different than the norm. But that is all it is at this stage .. a theory. Maybe they do not have rare ratio set at all and are just appearing in biomes that way due to other factors, like for example Spessartines and Almandines are just being overbred.

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Thank you cyradis4 for clarifying that and SockPuppet for actually providing the links. I did a search for that at some stage with no luck and just wondered if maybe it had been mentioned in IRC or something. So am glad to have finally gotten the clarification.

 

As to your 3 examples (Blacks, Stripes and Seasonals), those may or may not prove that false. You have given one example yourself which does not. Pyralspites* breed really easily and yet do not show up in cave with the same ease. I have personally seen another example during Holly Contest with Spitfires. Towards end of the year Spitfires still could be found in-cave, maybe slightly less than normal, but were still not that difficult to find in-cave. However, breeding towards the end of year reflected drastically different results. Breeding resulted in far less instances of producing an egg and also appeared to have far greater outright refusals. Of note, a large number of participants were hunting Spitfires from AP which were commonly bred eggs as well as breeding their own. Less often were they being hunted in-cave. Not absolute proof but does show pattern which seems to point towards disproving.

 

The fact is, it really all depends on how it is coded. While it may make sense to have them separate, as it gives more flexibility and control, that really means nothing. The way it was coded in other parts could have meant it would have been more difficult or not possible. Back to your 3 examples, I said it may not because it could simply be coded with two separate fields but usually the same / similar ratio is plugged in for both. Pyralspites could have been different from the norm, having two completely different ratios plugged in for them. It makes sense, but that really is not solid proof either. It always boils down to how it is coded and maybe there are other factors involved. For example one could start rumour from TJ recent post about Pyralspites. It infers that Pyralspites are rare, listing them among and comparing to Copper and Xenos. But while TJ may have inferred that, TJ does not point blank state this indeed true.

 

*Pyralspites. We now know for a fact that all 3 have same ratio. The biomes they appear in by nature will have an impact. Knowing that Pyropes have same ratio as other two, shows to me that biomes have more impact than I would have thought. Pyropes themself are easy to explain. Showing up in Volcano which is the second least crowded or dragons that it has to share and compete with, will by default make them appear more often. Added to that Volcano is also a popular and high trafficked area by the players (not as popular or as visited as Alpine but still one of the higher visited biomes). So end result Pyropes appears to be uncommon while other two appears to be more rare, even though ratio is same. Why do they all seem to breed like the dickens, I have already theorized the ratio might be set different than the norm. But that is all it is at this stage .. a theory. Maybe they do not have rare ratio set at all and are just appearing in biomes that way due to other factors, like for example Spessartines and Almandines are just being overbred.

The problem is that I linked to TJ's post which states that the same number of Almondines were generated as Pyropes, despite the fact that we aren't seeing them in Trades. So the *game* is generating the same numbers of each. Now what TJ didn't say was whether or not the same numbers of each could be found on people's *scrolls*. Its entirely possible that the extra Almondines never hit the Cave. Or there could be Super-Collector of Almondines. Personally, I'm inclined to think that its a combination factor for Almondines. Alpine has been tending to rotate between the same few breeds for a while now, and I've spoken to several people who *have* been seeing Almondines on a quasi-regular basis. So I'm inclined to think that the rarity of Almondines might be, well... A false positive, caused by a stagnant biome. Another indicator is that people have been reporting that Almondines aren't trading well at the moment, which to me is indicative that their "trade value" may be shifting down significantly.

 

As for Spitfires... Desert at that time was also fairly un-populated, and remember.... the ratios are linked to breeding and depend on what else is dropping. The decrease in Spitfire breeding was almost certainly due to the Contest (same happened with BBW), and it could have been that the reason more were dropping in the Cave was because something else in Desert went rare-ish. It happens.

 

Actually, I got something rather different from TJ's post. Coppers and Xenos are both breeds that drop different alts depending on which Biome they are in. As such, his calling them out that they "behave the same" makes perfect sense: Their ratios are setup the exact same way. But that does not mean that they *have* the same ratios.

 

 

 

As for the store idea, I deff think the ratios need to be taken into account when people go to "get" an egg from it. Those that are over-populated (such as user-driven rares) need to be pricier, where as those which are under-populated cost less. The idea of the store (to me) would be that its a guaranteed place to get those elusive dragons that just seem to be hiding from you.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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The problem is that I linked to TJ's post which states that the same number of Almondines were generated as Pyropes, despite the fact that we aren't seeing them in Trades. So the *game* is generating the same numbers of each. Now what TJ didn't say was whether or not the same numbers of each could be found on people's *scrolls*. Its entirely possible that the extra Almondines never hit the Cave. Or there could be Super-Collector of Almondines.

Actually TJ stated generated and picked up in pretty equal numbers. So yes they are hitting peoples scrolls. I personally dont know where, but apparently per TJ they are. Also TJ said that Almandines were not the most rare in last couple weeks. TJ never stated which was. So it could have been either Spessartines (my guess) or Pyropes. It also neglects to differentiate whether those were only in-cave or Overall population. Since specifically mentions generated and picked up, I read that as overall so also could just be simple matter that lot of them are from breeding and those from what I have seen do not have as much trade market.

 

A big interpretative part of that is TJ's view of 'pretty' equal.

10's / 100's / 1000's really do not know. Or maybe even in relation to the total number of dragons that go out every day? That could be bit larger than what a normal player may think or maybe not.

 

Actually, I got something rather different from TJ's post. Coppers and Xenos are both breeds that drop different alts depending on which Biome they are in. As such, his calling them out that they "behave the same" makes perfect sense: Their ratios are setup the exact same way. But that does not mean that they *have* the same ratios.

Yes I mostly got same thing as you, just was stating someone else could read something else from it.

 

As to the prices fluctuating in store depending on if under- or over- populated. I like it and yet dont. Cons of that are players can easily see price go up or down every day and than know current status for each dragon. One can get an idea now based on how they are breeding or seen in-cave, but that is not same as actually seeing it officially confirmed by price in the Store. Besides the game already has set procedures in place to help control that.

 

Yet at same time I do see your point regarding user driven rares. That is more of false driven rarity that will continue to be such as players artificially inflate it for awhile. So IDK, maybe only have it vary if it is over or under for certain set time, like say over a month ??

Edited by Hawkster

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Actually TJ stated generated and picked up in pretty equal numbers. So yes they are hitting peoples scrolls. I personally dont know where, but apparently per TJ they are.

Not just apparently, not just per TJ. Take a look at the trading threads. There are several people trading at least one CB Alpine, someone trading FOUR CB Alpines , with one or two more in the scroll. CB Spessartines seem to be more available too. Something changed in the last week, maybe two.

 

EDIT

As for the store idea, I deff think the ratios need to be taken into account when people go to "get" an egg from it. Those that are over-populated (such as user-driven rares) need to be pricier, where as those which are under-populated cost less.

I think I understand your point, just not sure how it would work. Over-population can change from week to week, that means dynamic ratios. I can't figure out how to have a store where prices change weekly.

Edited by NotBambi

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Prices change very often in grocery stores. Some people just buy what they need at that moment without taking the price much into account, and some people specifically buy when it's on sale, waiting for that sale before buying.

 

As long as the really high ticket items (golds, silvers, prizes, etc) weren't too heavily effected by the fluctuation (unless something got really out of wack), I don't see a problem with the prices changing based on over/under population. It just makes sense to price something that the ratios want less of more so fewer people will buy it, and to price something the ratios want more of less to encourage people to buy it.

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