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angelicdragonpuppy

Prize x Prize only breeds one color?

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lol you don't tell us many things so assumptions are often all we have to base suggestions on. Also laughing at players making guesses is a pretty shoddy way to respond.

Well trying to to suggest technical fixes/workarounds for a case where the only provided context is someone who isn't me saying "I think someone said it isn't possible to fix" is indeed laughable because the layers of assumptions begin to go a bit too far: assuming that what was said is true, assuming that it is true for technical reasons, assuming that the technical reasons are X, and then assuming that the solution for X is Y.

 

You are of course free to (and expected to) build up a mental model of how the site behaves in response to various actions that you and others perform. But no, I don't give any info on the internals of the site, nor should I need to; that enters the territory where it is no longer valid to assume things.

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Nonetheless, this is Not A Bug™, so I'm going to move this thread to suggestions.

 

EDIT: oops, I selected the "don't leave a MOVED: X marker" option out of habit. Sorry if anyone had trouble locating it post-move.

Edited by TJ09

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Well trying to to suggest technical fixes/workarounds for a case where the only provided context is someone who isn't me saying "I think someone said it isn't possible to fix" is indeed laughable because the layers of assumptions begin to go a bit too far: assuming that what was said is true, assuming that it is true for technical reasons, assuming that the technical reasons are X, and then assuming that the solution for X is Y.

 

You are of course free to (and expected to) build up a mental model of how the site behaves in response to various actions that you and others perform. But no, I don't give any info on the internals of the site, nor should I need to; that enters the territory where it is no longer valid to assume things.

I understand that going off secondhand information can lead to wrong conclusions, that my own conclusion in this case was wrong, and that of course that you don't have to divulge internal mechanics. Still, having a suggestion (no matter how off base) greeted with text laughter by the top admin and creator of the site is definitely off putting.

 

If you didn't mean to come off as dismissive, then I apologize for reading it that way, but humor that isn't made blatantly obvious can be hard to discern from blank text.

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It's not fixable because it would involve changing the breeding behavior of already established pairings and break lineages that are relying on the current behavior.

 

I also don't personally see it as a problem. It's consistent, it's even chance of either breed (though not actually random), and it allows for more possibilities than always picking the "higher placed" color (and more reliable than picking a random one).

I'm not sure it would really break lineages - this would just affect future breedings, not change adult dragons. It would make some lines harder - but, hey, nebs are hard in lineages and people still work on those.

 

It is consistent but even if it were changed to random, lines already in work could still progress (although they might be slower/more frustrating), but as is right now, certain lines are not possible at all - which judging by the fact that I've seen it periodically get mentioned since the feature was discovered, is 'breaking' lineages for people right now.

 

I don't do specific prize lines since getting low gens of what I want is too hard, but I'd support allowing prizes to breed both colors.

 

JMHO

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It's not fixable because it would involve changing the breeding behavior of already established pairings and break lineages that are relying on the current behavior.

How would it break current lineages? It wouldn't affect the breed of adult dragons, right?

 

Fact is, when a Nebula colors wrong, you can see that while it's still a hatchling, and trade it for a differently colored one. If you *breed* a Nebula and it colors wrong, you can just breed another one.

 

When you try two adult Shimmers (or two Tinsels), you will only know if your lineage is going to work when they grow up and start breeding. You cannot trade adults, so when you find out that your pair is giving the wrong color for your line, you have at least one dragon on your scroll that's useless for the given lineage. If the dragons in question had been traded for, the whole trading starts anew: you have to get replacement for at least one of your two dragons - Prize dragons, not just any common or metal!

 

The way I see it, having the Prize color fixed is more disruptive to lineages than randomness, because you actually have to go back one generation in case of failure - it's basically as bad as getting a refusal.

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Isn't that another way of saying it IS fixable, but you don't want to change it?

No, it's a way of saying it is intended and doesn't need fixing as it isn't broken.

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I had no idea prize dragons bred this way so this ruins multiple lineage plans I was excited for. I guess its better than I found out before spending ages doing in-depth planning, trading for perfect mates, etc but it really sucks for everyone who didn't know before going through all that trouble.

 

I highly support this being changed. I don't see a reason why such rare dragons should give out a random, unchangeable type when bred together. There should be a chance to get both types.

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So, in essence, it's not a bug, it's a feature. Great. But can't features be changed? tongue.gif

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So, in essence, it's not a bug, it's a feature. Great. But can't features be changed? tongue.gif

That's why TJ moved it to suggestions. wink.gif

 

I had planned an ib deadline checker. Not possible. TJ, which kind of lineages would you think could not work anymore if that were to be changed? And second question: If we can't get it changed, can we please get the rules, like we know with coppers?

 

 

I pretty much gave up breeding my shimmer checkers, when all my tries with that one resulted in bronze kids. Its mum is stingy as hell, i'm waiting for like 8 months now for a second baby. http://dragcave.net/progeny/n/svcm%20tetra

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Since I personally effectively don't breed shimmer-scales except on request, much less to each other, this doesn't affect me and my opinion is probably not worth much, but to share it anyway:

 

Allowing the breeds to pop out a parent colour at random does not seem like it would break anything to me, and I'm in definite support of the change. smile.gif

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I wish this would change, too. I want the possibility of either color as offspring.

Failing that, at least knowledge of how the color is selected, such as provided with the coppers. Then I would know how to adjust.

 

The way it sits right now, it sort of feels like shopping for a four-door sedan, commenting on the missing back seats, and being told "It's a feature, not a defect." Sure, if you want to strip the car down and turn it into a racecar, or maybe use it as some sort of cheap I-can't-afford-a-covered-pickup-truck, I suppose. But the majority of people want that back seat in a car with four doors.

 

I have two silver tinsels on my scroll at the moment. Rebreeds, because while I have compatible mates, I wanted a gold tinsel, and that pair only spits out silvers. So I rebred the silver parents, and if they also spit out silvers, I'll try rebreeding the golds and see if that helps.

 

I'm thanking my lucky stars that miraculously all the other portions of my pairings worked out well. Could you imagine rebreeding for this lineage? The issue is that I want the golds on the outside, not the inside, and I have to go back three generations in this lineage to have even a chance to achieve that, due to this "feature".

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Well... Rebred the gold's parents, now, to see if maybe that helps. Rebreeding the silver didn't work.

 

If it's supposed to be locked down to one color, could we at least know the rules so I would know which parent to rebreed? Or is it completely random?

 

How many times will I have to rebreed to have a shot at getting a gold tinsel?

 

My other pair didn't release an egg today, but I am rebreeding those parents, too, just in case.

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I'm not sure it would really break lineages - this would just affect future breedings, not change adult dragons. It would make some lines harder - but, hey, nebs are hard in lineages and people still work on those.

 

It is consistent but even if it were changed to random, lines already in work could still progress (although they might be slower/more frustrating), but as is right now, certain lines are not possible at all - which judging by the fact that I've seen it periodically get mentioned since the feature was discovered, is 'breaking' lineages for people right now.

This. Heck, adding the two new Nebula colors didn't "break lineages" that were depending on the same color of Neb, they just made more options and made some lineages slightly slower, but nobody is complaining that Nebulas should only breed one parent color.

 

I think it should be fixed so both colors can be bred.

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TJ, which kind of lineages would you think could not work anymore if that were to be changed?

 

And second question: If we can't get it changed, can we please get the rules, like we know with coppers?

bumped for TJ to maybe reply. smile.gif

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Are there any cases where a silver x gold pair produces golds, or a bronze x silver pair produces silvers? If I'm not mistaken it sounds like all examples given so far have the "rarest" (in terms of usual color symbolism) color be less dominant. If that's the case, I doubt it's a bug, and it's probably operating on the theory of gold is rarer/'better' than silver is rarer/'better' than bronze.

Yes. I have one bronze x silver pair that breeds silver. And a newly mated silver x gold pair actually gave me a gold. smile.gif (I think both were tinsel pairs.)

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What determines what color the eggs will be?  I need to know this, so I can actually continue my lineage.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/8LiPZ

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ru5Ta

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ypwWS

 

Latest failure, if anyone wants this:

http://dragcave.net/teleport/cd635178e747f...de2b80c60ab91f4

Is it at all possible to at least obtain an idea of the rules for this, that determines the color of the breeding?

 

This is getting frustrating. To be honest, at this rate, I am considering abandoning this breeding project. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it! My latest results are EVERYTHING MUST BE SILVER BWAHAHAHAHAH!

 

At least I have pairs to try for the next three weeks before I have to rebreed anything, due to my excess of potential mates to pair up?

Edited by SolarCat

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It's random. Plus it seems that golds will be bred less often than silvers which are less common than bronze.

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It's random. Plus it seems that golds will be bred less often than silvers which are less common than bronze.

Actually TJ said:

[snip] It's consistent, it's even chance of either breed (though not actually random) [snip]

Not sure of the exact way he means that but it sounds like it's more complicated than the obvious way I imagine most would assume it's determined.

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Actually TJ said:

 

Not sure of the exact way he means that but it sounds like it's more complicated than the obvious way I imagine most would assume it's determined.

So in other words, I just have really really bad luck that so far all seven attempts I've had breed silvers?

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/8LiPZ

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ru5Ta

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ypwWS

http://dragcave.net/lineage/qiMdO

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ATFXs

http://dragcave.net/lineage/zvxaP

http://dragcave.net/lineage/dgPwD

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I guess so? I read from his post that there's an actual way to determine it but it might be he doesn't quite mean that.

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Based in my breedings I have a suspicion but please understand that it's just a guess because I have no idea how this breeding works.

I've been breeding some crosses (2 long lineaged shimmers in stairway, I don't know the name of this type of breeding) and I always get the highest value shimmer as result, like:

- gold x silver = gold

- silver x bronze = silver

So to me it seems that the result is always the higher value color.

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I think this is a dumb "feature" and it makes lineages harder, not easier >.>

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Based in my breedings I have a suspicion but please understand that it's just a guess because I have no idea how this breeding works.

I've been breeding some crosses (2 long lineaged shimmers in stairway, I don't know the name of this type of breeding) and I always get the highest value shimmer as result, like:

- gold x silver = gold

- silver x bronze = silver

So to me it seems that the result is always the higher value color.

I keep getting silvers when I want a gold, though, so you've just been lucky in that regard.

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It seems no one else cares anymore. sad.gif But I still fail to see why this is a "feature" instead of a "bug".

 

My Project Progress

Finally got Gold on the one side... So now I'm working on the other. One more Gold Tinsel and I can finally be free of this disaster, and NEVER do one like this again since the issue won't be FIXED.

 

I'm just wondering how many rebreeds I'll have to do until I FINALLY get what I need...

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