2015-01-08 - Glorydrake/2013 Holiday Changes

[Tigerkralle]

No not everybody is ungrateful about this! I wasn't there to get a sunset Soltstice so i came here and registered on the forum for the purpose to have a voice and make a suggestion, to make clear what i think about do not let communicate about a change of colouring in a Holiday-Sprite that all the ones who are involved in this has known for roughly a year and the biggest issue to say "Thank you for this wonderful sprite Odeen!"

Sadly at first i was loud and angry and has forget about the "Thank you!" part but...

But only in the first moment!

 

Now i am so happy to be able to get this gorgeous rosy winged Solstice sprite. You know at first Odeen was about the rosy wings will never ever be back. Fortunately she decides to let us have our will and give all the players the chance to get the rosy winged Solstices.

 

*offered more popcorn* I am so thankful for this compromise. *munch*

 

And pease do not forget about the chance for the Glory Drakes. Now i know why i got a different Glory Drake then i was expecting. And i am waiting for the chance that let us now if it is day or night in-cave.

 

I am living in GMT+1 (GMT+2 when daylight saving time) so that is something to really get exiteced about it. In a positive way.

 

(Mayby the grammar is weird. Confused the tense for example or whatever...)

Edited January 11, 2015 by Tigerkralle

[Dubious]

A lot of people made suggestions about the Solstices. A lot of people were all for a change so that we could have non-CB sunset wings. But of course, once TJ and Odeen make the change, nobody is grateful for it.

No offense guys, but to be quite honest, I wish they hadn't changed now, simply because everybody's being dramatic and ungrateful.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be out of this argument. But seriously. This is utterly ridiculous and unneeded.

Erm...what argument? People have stated over and ever, even those disappointed, that they ARE grateful to TJ and Odeen. No one is being dramatic or ungrateful, at all. Every post is pretty much 'I am disappointed, but oh well never mind. Thanks TJ and Odeen you guys are awesome!' or 'Awesome I got what wing colour I want, thanks TJ and Odeen'. There is no drama or argument going on here.

 

.....reading this thread, many, many people seem to be grateful as well.

 

Exactly.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Dubious

[BluefootTheWarrior]

Oh that's nice! Now i know the window I can get some Drakes

[IvoryRaven15]

There is always a mix of opinions in threads like these and opinions are fine. The greatest majority of people are fine, neutral or happy about the changes that are implimented and that's the goal of any site owner. To please the majority...because it is simply -not- possible to please everyone.

And yes...there are always a few, generally a very very small minority, of people who complain loudly, grumble and gripe and sometimes even threaten to leave...and that happens everywhere in any group, forum, game or even out in public life. Keep in mind...it's a tiny tiny number. They just seem in larger quantity because they make the most waves. They are the ones most adverse to change.

It happens. But I have also noted that many of those who growl the loudest...still remain and eventually get used to the changes and life goes on.

I'm neutral about the changes being made. I enjoy the effort and labor of love the wonderful spriters of this site put into their work and as an artist myself, I respect and understand their protectiveness and the sacrifice made of offering their little artistic brain-children to the large number of people who visit this site. I love both sprites equally and I'm a big fan of having more options to collect so I remain my own affable self and just enjoy being around the fine folk who frequent this site. You're all lovely people.

 

Just my humble opinion. We all get to have one after all. Stay cool Dragon Cave family!

[attackfish]

*Sighs* So the lovely Solstice mate I bred for a checker with winters still has blue wings. Dang. Guess I have to wait until next year. This is the problem with holidays. You mess around with them, and we all have to wait twelve whole months to even think about rebreeding what we thought we had bred the previous holiday.

 

I love both sprites, but fair warning is always nice.

Edited January 11, 2015 by attackfish

[lightningsky]

ALL of my Solstices this past year turned rosy. Did I want some bluewings? Yes...

 

Am I mad? No. I can get them next year for sure. I'm excited that both sprites are available, and that everyone has the equal opportunity to get both. Year is a long time, yeah, but the fact is that now we have choice. Which is great!

 

.....Right? .-.

[lilysally]

I'm wondering if a thread like this might make TJ decide that the Limit on Holidays will be back... With only two of them per scroll, there'd be a lot less discussion.

[lorimmel]

I'm wondering if a thread like this might make TJ decide that the Limit on Holidays will be back... With only two of them per scroll, there'd be a lot less discussion.

I doubt it. One bad decision followed by another hardly ever helps anything.

[JavaTigress]

I doubt it. One bad decision followed by another hardly ever helps anything.

I agree, it would only make things worse.

 

Besides... what about those that already HAVE more than two of some of those breeds?

Is TJ just going to take away their 'extra' dragons? There'd be tremendous outcry over that, I assure you.

[_Sin_]

I'm wondering if a thread like this might make TJ decide that the Limit on Holidays will be back... With only two of them per scroll, there'd be a lot less discussion.

I doubt. Somehow I think that TJ welcomes discussion, call it brain storming. That doesn't mean he will implement the outcome but maybe will take it in consideration before/instead of rejecting it.

[lorimmel]

90 per cent of my solstices proved useless for the purpose I bred them or traded for them. That's not a big surprise, as most of DC users are Americans and play during the day.

 

I can only hope the same mistake won't be made again. And I really hope no more holiday dragons will have breeding mechanics that is so inconvenient.

[sequiro]

Dangit. The two I caught for the new blue wings turned rosy.

[WWECornSerpent]

I didn't even notice there was a difference in wing color until I stumbled across this thread. Am I upset? Not in the least! I have 2nd gen Solstices of both wing colors now and it really doesn't matter to me what the color is in my lineages, just like I don't care about the Snow Angel wing color.

 

I can definitely understand why some have a preference, especially when creating lineages, as consistency can be more difficult to obtain and is very appreciated by all. However, we are only dealing with 2nd gens right now, not 3rd gens where a sudden jumble of different colors would definitely mess up a lineage. There really isn't a huge difference between the blue and rosy wings, IMO, and your lineage is always going to have those cb rosy-winged Solstices to mess up the otherwise blue-winged lineages anyway.

[Fuzzbucket]

I doubt it. One bad decision followed by another hardly ever helps anything.

Especially as many don't see it as a bad decision, just the only one that had a prayer of fitting Odeen's concept and making both colours possible.

[Kiyoura]

Ever heard the phrase "The Buck stops here"?

 

TJ is the owner of the site, the only Admin. Therefore, ultimate responsibility to his userbase is with him. TJ had the information to know that this sort of unannounced change would not be well received (everyone in chat when it was first discovered *knew* right away it would be a problem). The Frill thread, the Bright Pink thread, the Snow Angel threads, the Alt Sweetling threads. The huge backlash in the "more retired sprites" thread. The continuing drama over the Prizes.

 

A large, vocal subset of the userbase Does Not Like sprites that are unavailable to everyone for general use. TJ should bloody well have *known* this, and he had a moral obligation as the leader of this site to make *sure* that people were at least told ahead of time.

 

He also has the obligation as the leader of the site to not let Artists push him into actions that he knows would be bad for the site, or that would cause a large enough backlash that it'd have to be changed. No, we don't know who did what in this. But anyone who's been active on the site should easily have been able to predict this result.

 

So TJ has no excuse for not seeing this coming, and it was his responsibility to try to mitigate it. Ultimately, whatever Odeen *wanted*, it is TJ's *responsibility*, so ultimately the fault is his. And all he had to do was add a line in the post on the 19th: "Solstices have something different this year from last...." and the rampant speculation would have seen to it others knew.

 

 

As for this... Also predictable and *predicted* in the Solstice thread. There were three, MUCH better suggestions for how to handle this year made, which would have reduced / eliminated this backlash. They were:

- Let each person pick, ONCE, what each of their dragons would get this year

- All eggs laid before the 23 (the day the Solstices grew up) go Rosie, all laid after go Blue

- Let people make a one-time choice for the 2014s on their own scroll: blue or Rosy

 

 

So yep... Odeen didn't help matters, but it comes down to TJ.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Unless all of this is in the Terms of Services, no he doesn't. You're forcing an arbitrary moral code on someone else and TJ doesn't have any of those arbitrary obligations that you say he does. Should he have known this backlash was coming? Maybe. Should he have communicated? Maybe. Would any of it have made anything better? Maybe.

 

Furthermore, it's not always possible to see a backlash coming or rather, to see how bad of a backlash would come.

 

Also, your three other solutions... I believe that Odeen wasn't comfortable with people picking the colors of their Solstices (and as an artist, they have more right to how their artwork is used that any regular DC player)? And I don't think your 2nd solution is good at all, and actually I prefer this solution that was ultimately instated (because I am part of the group who have a preference for the rosy-tinged wings). No one solution is going to make everyone happy, and despite the vocal unhappy about this current solution, there seems to be plenty of us who are satisfied with the end result.

 

Because here's the thing, there were groups of people who...

1. did not like the blue-winged

2. loved the blue-winged

3. did not care

4. artist(s) who had their own vision for their sprite

 

This solution is a pretty decent compromise for all parties involved (and also adds to the lore/story of the Solstices as well) and in my opinion, TJ did a good job of reaching a solution that serves as a compromise for everyone.

Edited January 12, 2015 by kiyoura

[birdzgoboom]

He also has the obligation as the leader of the site to not let Artists push him into actions that he knows would be bad for the site, or that would cause a large enough backlash that it'd have to be changed. No, we don't know who did what in this. But anyone who's been active on the site should easily have been able to predict this result.

 

So TJ has no excuse for not seeing this coming, and it was his responsibility to try to mitigate it. Ultimately, whatever Odeen *wanted*, it is TJ's *responsibility*, so ultimately the fault is his. And all he had to do was add a line in the post on the 19th: "Solstices have something different this year from last...." and the rampant speculation would have seen to it others knew.

 

 

As for this... Also predictable and *predicted* in the Solstice thread. There were three, MUCH better suggestions for how to handle this year made, which would have reduced / eliminated this backlash. They were:

- Let each person pick, ONCE, what each of their dragons would get this year

- All eggs laid before the 23 (the day the Solstices grew up) go Rosie, all laid after go Blue

- Let people make a one-time choice for the 2014s on their own scroll: blue or Rosy

 

So yep... Odeen didn't help matters, but it comes down to TJ.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I really hate commenting on drama (social anxiety and all), but I really feel the need to clear something up here...

 

No artist (in this case, Odeen) pushed TJ into any decision here. Odeen has explained quite a few times that the blue was the original and that her, Jazi, AND TJ all liked both the rosy and blue versions so they figured out a way for them to both be obtainable. Odeen and Jazi did nothing to force TJ here, it was a collective idea. Same goes for the breeding compromise made just a few days ago.

 

To your second paragraph: So basically Odeen's opinion on her own concept should just be ignored to appease a group of people that have their feathers rustled? I'm sorry, but that's not okay. She created the concept for the Solstice. The Solstice is her baby. I'm sorry that some of you guys were unhappy, but a compromise was made. You can now get both rosy and blue versions. Maybe it's not totally convenient for you this year, but not everything has to be totally convenient for you. I wanted all of my babies to stay with blue wings, but all of them turned rosy except for one (even the ones from my Radiant Angel alts turned rosy when I wanted them to be blue). I'm not crying about it or complaining that everything is unfair-- in fact, I made a totally sarcastic post once I saw my 2G Solstices change. It's only a year. It's not a huge deal.

Yes, some notice about the Solstices beforehand would've been nice for those planning lineages, but it didn't happen. It's done.. the situation has happened and it's over. v.v"

 

As for the three compromises you listed, Odeen clearly stated she was not a fan of the first or third ones. So as far as I'm concerned, as soon as the artist/conceptor says no, it's no. Especially if they really, really don't like it. It is, in fact, their dragon...

The second one would still leave for upset people. What about people who wanted to breed their Solstices on Christmas Day, but wanted Rosy wings? They wouldn't be very happy with that compromise.

 

Maybe it's just because I'm way more laid back about this kind of stuff, but I really think there's a lot of overreacting happening here in general...

 

A compromise was made that accommodated both the players and the artist. Players may now have both blue and rosy Solstices in a way that does not totally step all over Odeen's toes.

 

But that's all I'm gonna say... I don't like getting involved in these kinds of situations, anyway...

 

ETA: Also, my apologies if my post sounds very....short. But I'm very sad seeing all of this negativity still, and the best way for me to emphasize words is by using italics, lol.

Edited January 11, 2015 by birdzgoboom

[Pixxelation]

I really hate commenting on drama (social anxiety and all), but I really feel the need to clear something up here...

 

No artist (in this case, Odeen) pushed TJ into any decision here. Odeen has explained quite a few times that the blue was the original and that her, Jazi, AND TJ all liked both the rosy and blue versions so they figured out a way for them to both be obtainable. Odeen and Jazi did nothing to force TJ here, it was a collective idea. Same goes for the breeding compromise made just a few days ago.

 

To your second paragraph: So basically Odeen's opinion on her own concept should just be ignored to appease a group of people that have their feathers rustled? I'm sorry, but that's not okay. She created the concept for the Solstice. The Solstice is her baby. I'm sorry that some of you guys were unhappy, but a compromise was made. You can now get both rosy and blue versions. Maybe it's not totally convenient for you this year, but not everything has to be totally convenient for you. I wanted all of my babies to stay with blue wings, but all of them turned rosy except for one (even the ones from my Radiant Angel alts turned rosy when I wanted them to be blue). I'm not crying about it or complaining that everything is unfair-- in fact, I made a totally sarcastic post once I saw my 2G Solstices change. It's only a year. It's not a huge deal.

Yes, some notice about the Solstices beforehand would've been nice for those planning lineages, but it didn't happen. It's done.. the situation has happened and it's over. v.v"

 

As for the three compromises you listed, Odeen clearly stated she was not a fan of the first or third ones. So as far as I'm concerned, as soon as the artist/conceptor says no, it's no. Especially if they really, really don't like it. It is, in fact, their dragon...

The second one would still leave for upset people. What about people who wanted to breed their Solstices on Christmas Day, but wanted Rosy wings? They wouldn't be very happy with that compromise.

 

Maybe it's just because I'm way more laid back about this kind of stuff, but I really think there's a lot of overreacting happening here in general...

 

A compromise was made that accommodated both the players and the artist. Players may now have both blue and rosy Solstices in a way that does not totally step all over Odeen's toes.

 

But that's all I'm gonna say... I don't like getting involved in these kinds of situations, anyway...

 

ETA: Also, my apologies if my post sounds very....short. But I'm very sad seeing all of this negativity still, and the best way for me to emphasize words is by using italics, lol.

D) All of the above.

[Odeen]

I would like to offer a dose of a slightly different perspective:

 

The Solstice dragons officially "began" in early 2010, shortly after I first started playing Dragon Cave and quite a while before I learned how to actually create pixel art. I got it into my head that it would be absolutely amazing to have a sprite that embodied the spirit of hope and renewal that endures even in the darkest, coldest part of the year, and I couldn't shake it.

 

The very first sketch of a Solstice dragon I ever did looked almost nothing like her present-day sister. Once I taught myself how to sprite (thanks to the endless patience of my amazing friends, Fizzix and Jaz) and had a completed set of dragon sprites under my belt (the Bloodscales, though they would not be released until more than a year later), I again tried my hand at breathing life into the majestic lady haunting the corners of my mind. After sketching and spriting the lines and making several fruitless attempts to finish, I found I did not have the skill or confidence yet to color her. After that, I all but gave up on the idea (and DC itself, thanks to stress at school) until DC's 7th birthday when the Bloodscales got released.

 

Suddenly all I wanted to draw was dragons. Along with other projects, I once again drew and sprited a whole new Solstice dragon, and once again I failed to finish her. But the spark of hope had been ignited and I felt like the dragon herself was telling me she was ready to be born. I tried one last time to sprite her from scratch, with a new design and a new pose, and this time I felt the tumblers fall into line. Scarcely a week after throwing away my third attempt, I had all but finished the fourth, and in June of 2013 I was proud to call the Solstice dragon, leaping proudly into the sky with her winter-blue wings outstretched, "complete". Jaz had been there all the way providing support and feedback, and when I discovered that I was still quite lame at spriting cute, tiny things, he gladly helped me nail down the lines for the hatchlings.

 

For 5 months I stared at that sprite, as terrified as I was proud, absolutely certain that this thing I considered the best I would ever make would not be good enough to make the cut. I would tweak a pixel here, adjust a shade there, ask Jaz yet again if he felt it "needed" something until I was pretty sure he was going to fly down and shove my computer - dragon and all - down my throat. Sometime in October or November I made the mistake of saying "wouldn't it be cool if" and set about putting sunrise hues on the ventral sides of our alts' wings. It turned out surprisingly well and, feeling rather guilty, I decided to try the pattern out on the blue Solstices. That looked really good too.

 

Suddenly I had two versions of what was meant to be THE release version of the sprite, and I couldn't decide which I preferred. I feared that the sunrise hues made the dragon looked "overdressed", though I really liked the effect, but conversely I was still harboring fears that the blue one wasn't "fancy" enough to measure up to previous releases like Winter Magis. Jaz told me to submit both and let TJ decide, so at the beginning of December I made my bid and sat back to suffer through the month-long wait and inevitable disappointment on Christmas Day when my baby would fail to be chosen after 3 years of dreaming.

 

At 11:00pm on Christmas Eve (I live in the central time zone), my squeal of happiness woke my mother up on the opposite side of the house. I had spent the entire day literally sick with anticipation, daring myself to hope and hating myself for it, and all that stress came out in one great big rush that kept me from thinking straight or sleeping for four hours afterward.

 

I did not know until TJ's Solstices began to grow up which set of wings TJ had chosen to release. So certain was I that he would choose blue, I left the wing reference on her reference sheet solid blue - only to discover at work that he had opted instead for the rainbow hues. I rushed home to recolor the reference image so I could post it in the thread.

 

It was not until later that I was told TJ was interested in somehow incorporating both of my sprites into the game somehow. Having fallen in love with the solid blue wings in the months leading up to Christmas, I was ecstatic that it would still have a chance to be used, and Jaz - who of course was involved in the creation of the Snow Angels, and really liked how Snow Angels behaved differently than all other holiday dragons - was excited as well. We discussed and came up with a solution that all three of us were happy with, and then waited for this Christmas to come.

 

To be completely honest, I knew there would be people who would get upset by the way the dragon behaved. Someone always gets upset about something around here, and I wasn't afraid of it. What I did not expect was for people to get so rabidly up in arms about such a minor change in the sprite that they would paint the forums with their anger and seek me out on IRC and in PM to vent their frustrations at me directly - as if, in giving them the very creature I fell in love with that June, I had maliciously stolen something from them. Someone who caught one of the solstice offspring from my alt named it something unkind, knowing that I would be able to see it.

 

Certainly there were rays of sunshine. A lot of people came out excited about the new colors, and many others came to me voicing their thanks and support. But I was keeping up with all the suggestion threads and hearing everything people were saying about how they felt about TJ's and Jaz's and my decision to do as we'd done. Let me tell you, not all of them were kindly worded. A few were downright cruel. Most people just wanted the option of getting both even if it meant waiting until the next year, so TJ and I started discussing options and I worked on amending my concept for the dragon as a whole.

 

When TJ announced the idea we had agreed upon, the dialogue changed. Sure, there was still the repetitive condemnation of how things had unfolded, but added to that was the sudden addition that not only did people want the option to have both wings made available to them, but some of them also wanted the option of picking all their wing colors for this year.

 

Now that the plan has been executed, and people were given what they originally asked for - the option to get both wing colors - I have seen people grumble about how this was the worst way to handle the whole situation, how they have to kill and release their Solstices because their lineages are ruined.

 

People are still thankful - for one reason or another. I see that. Such words have not fallen on deaf ears, and I've still been getting nice messages. I am so thankful to every single person who has voiced their support, expressed their love, and given me gifts.

 

But people are also killing my dragons out of spite. As though they have no use and no value because they are not what that person wants. We don't have breed limits on holiday dragons anymore, and yet people would rather spill my dragons' blood than adapt and try something they hadn't planned on trying before. These are the things that, sadly, are going to beg to be remembered, and no it will not prevent me from designing my dragons the way I want to design them in the future.

 

I would just like to thank everyone again who has taken a moment out of their day to show their support and understanding in one way or another. You are the reason I sprite for DC, and I love you all.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Odeen

[Mysfytt]

Thumbs up odie

 

I seriously think most people don't appreciate half the effort that goes into making the dragons that are released onto DC.

[sbowen]

Odeen, I found that speech really incredibly motivational. I've been working on a holiday dragon since last year and recently picked it back up again. But now I'm even more inspired to work incredibly hard on it. I can't believe people are killing the dragons you made over unplanned wing designs when both show extreme talent and beauty. Thank you for inspiring me and all of the beautiful sprites you have made.

*opens Photoshop and tinkers with her baby*

Edited January 12, 2015 by sbowen

[cyradis4]

*snip*

TJ has a responsibility, as the SITE OWNER. The artists DO NOT own the site. The Site Owner has a responsibility to not release things that are harmful to the game. And when something unexpectedly turns out to make a lot of his userbase very unhappy, he has a choice: try to fix it, or loose that userbase.

 

My point has nothing to do with Odeen's creation. It has to do with the way this matter was handled: NO WARNING, and the release of a breeding mechanic that was well known to be *highly unpopular* in the past. I'm fairly sure that if TJ had said, "that's not a good idea, retiring the rosy-wings in the CB versions, lets find a different way to handle the sprite transition without upsetting a large part of the userbase", the Artists would have been willing to work with him.

 

In the end, I see the problems to be two-fold:

1. The initial retirement of the Rosy wings

2. The LACK of warning and the breach of trust this caused

 

The reason people are so unhappy right now is the lack of warning, which led to people to assume Solstices were staying the same... So they continued their previous plans through SEVENTY percent of a once-a-year breeding window. Odeen was involved with 1... But she had nothing to do with the REAL problem people are having, which is causing so much unhappyness right now over the wasted effort, which was caused by the lack of warning, which she was not responsible for!

 

Even though she's feeling harassed, Odeen should also feel flattered: people are THIS upset because they love her sprite!

 

As for the color change being "small", I have to disagree. In lineages with any pink type dragon, the lineage looses its "punch". It looks better with the gold and blue type sprites (Golden Wyverns and the like), but I focused on the pinks, purples, and reds *because* of the counterpoint of the rosy-wings. So, had I had warning, I would have done completely different pairings this year.

 

So yes, I stand by my point. Ultimate responsibility for the site, and to its userbase, rests with TJ and TJ alone.

 

C4.

Edited January 12, 2015 by cyradis4

[kerrikins]

Well, you can count me among the happy, at least.

 

Thanks for the work you did on these, Odie, I appreciate it.

 

I think the way TJ chose to implement the colours was the only way that made sense, personally (and part of me wonders how time consuming it would have been to code/allow people to pick).

[Odeen]

Even though she's feeling harassed, Odeen should also feel flattered: people are THIS upset because they love her sprite!

It isn't flattering and I don't feel flattered. Love should be unconditional.

[birdzgoboom]

*hugs Odie*

You already know ilu bunches. The amount of hard work and heart you put into the Solstice dragon is touching.

 

All the artists (in-cave and not) put a lot of time and effort and love into the stuff they do... It's okay to be upset with something you don't like. But one should also be mindful of how they present their frustration! I'm sure no one would be a fan of getting angry PM's and/or IRC messages over something they made.

This is when I always just take a step back, take a deep breath, and come back to a situation later with a level head! Huzzah. It helps keep tempers from flaring and it helps keep discussions going civilly.

 

C4: Harrassment =/= love. I would not be happy at all if someone was harrassing me and then turned around and said "I'm only doing this out of love!"

That's like...the ultimate yandere. No thank you.

[sbowen]

TJ has a responsibility, as the SITE OWNER. The artists DO NOT own the site. The Site Owner has a responsibility to not release things that are harmful to the game. And when something unexpectedly turns out to make a lot of his userbase very unhappy, he has a choice: try to fix it, or loose that userbase.

 

My point has nothing to do with Odeen's creation. It has to do with the way this matter was handled: NO WARNING, and the release of a breeding mechanic that was well known to be *highly unpopular* in the past. I'm fairly sure that if TJ had said, "that's not a good idea, retiring the rosy-wings in the CB versions, lets find a different way to handle the sprite transition without upsetting a large part of the userbase", the Artists would have been willing to work with him.

 

In the end, I see the problems to be two-fold:

1. The initial retirement of the Rosy wings

2. The LACK of warning and the breach of trust this caused

 

The reason people are so unhappy right now is the lack of warning, which led to people to assume Solstices were staying the same... So they continued their previous plans through SEVENTY percent of a once-a-year breeding window. Odeen was involved with 1... But she had nothing to do with the REAL problem people are having, which is causing so much unhappyness right now over the wasted effort, which was caused by the lack of warning, which she was not responsible for!

 

Even though she's feeling harassed, Odeen should also feel flattered: people are THIS upset because they love her sprite!

 

As for the color change being "small", I have to disagree. In lineages with any pink type dragon, the lineage looses its "punch". It looks better with the gold and blue type sprites (Golden Wyverns and the like), but I focused on the pinks, purples, and reds *because* of the counterpoint of the rosy-wings. So, had I had warning, I would have done completely different pairings this year.

 

So yes, I stand by my point. Ultimate responsibility for the site, and to its userbase, rests with TJ and TJ alone.

 

C4.

Yes, TJ has a responsibility to not do harmful things. No, the artists do not own the site.

But they do own their art and their concepts.

TJ, Odeen, and JaziandCo worked together to find a solution they liked. TJ liked the solution as the admin and owner. JaziandCo liked the solution as someone who liked both wings. Odeen liked it as a spriter and as someone proud of their wonderful work.

Sure, TJ could have warned people in advance, but I think that together the trio worked together to find a solution that pleased many users. Next year we'll be able to plan those lineages and wings. I myself plan on breeding my CBs to get both colors of wings.

In my opinion, harrassment is never good. I like these forums because people keep their harmful opinions out of their posts. The fact that Odeen feels harrassed is terrible and I'm really sad it happened on my favorite site.

*hugs Odeen*

Edited January 12, 2015 by sbowen