2015-01-08 - Glorydrake/2013 Holiday Changes

[Eldrene]

At least we have the chance to get both colors. Unlike the alt Valentines. Anywayz, I have a couple of the rose winged and one of the blue winged. Ironic though that the one I wanted blue turned rose and the one I wanted rose turned blue, lol, just my luck. I actually laughed when I found that.

Thanks to the spriter and TJ for the lovely sprites!

[Nalabyte]

That works. I was quite happy either way though. Loved the blue wing design. So much prettier.

[Fuzzbucket]

What I said has nothing to do with fuzzbucket's idea that they worked together for a good fix or jocosa's idea that it was a forced fix. I'm not saying anything about colors - not the way they originally were nor the fact that they were changed nor how the change came about.

 

I'm saying that last year, TJ should have been the one to *make sure* communication happened, so that at that point we would have known that the rosy ones were going to be unique to CB instead of having to wait a year assuming we knew that they'd breed like every other holiday dragon.

 

There was a quote from TJ somewhere a while ago saying that he had thought that the artist had said something and it turned out the artist didn't say something. So I just am hoping that people would not be upset with the artist for not communicating.

 

In the quote I replied to in this thread a few posts back, someone said they hoped TJ and/or artists would communicate better and I am just saying that I think that burden does not rest with the artists.

For communication - it rests with both. But sorry if I misunderstood you.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This from one of the noisiest "colour me outraged" players ?? Strange... But that is also my view. EVERYTHING (except CBs, as is always the case with holidays) is now available to us, which it wasn't before; the only SMALL down side is the need for a bit of patience. Patience is a virtue, the last I heard. Deal, my loves, DEAL !

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still irate about how things went down, but at this point there's really nothing left to be done.

 

I hope future holiday releases run as normal, but I'll never 100% trust them now. Alts and weird obtaining methods are good for year round dragons, not ones with only a week to breed and an exclusive CB release date. Holidays are hectic enough with normal obtaining methods and just one sprite per dragon as is. X___x

[JuulXhorse]

Awesome!

[speakingtomato]

Hm... I only have one Soltice this year now with pink wings, but this beauty is not dragcave.net/lineage/C1bts, what a pity. I believe equal opportunities would be if people were previously informed about them....

[raichuluxray]

I dunno what all the fuss is about, guys. It's literally just one year.

When I disappeared for a while and missed the Wrapping Wings and the Solstices, I had to wait a year and didn't complain. I'm gonna need to wait almost a year for the Desipis, and the Cavern Lurker, and the Shadow Walker. Still not complaining.

 

My solstice stayed blue wings. So what? Just another twelve months. For those of you who were stuck with just sunset wings, so what? Still only twelve months. In the meantime, we have the holiday raffle, the Valentine's Release, the Halloween release, and some regular releases. It's not //that// bad. And c'mon, it's nobody's fault your eggs happened to be laid at a certain time of day.

 

To be honest, y'all should be grateful for the change. It was much requested, so it happened. And those who missed the release get to have sunset wings and complete their scroll, and those who got some CBs get to keep the sunset wings and still be able to make cool lineages with them (I'd totally like to see a PB Even-gen lineage alternating between the wing colors, to be honest)

Edited January 11, 2015 by raichuluxray

[cyradis4]

I am not understanding why you are blaming TJ? If you do not know the facts, what is the point of placing blame?

Just my take on this topic...

Members in several topics were more then a little upset about the change in the Solstices, solutions were added, now members are upset by not having the new colored Solstice.

Ever heard the phrase "The Buck stops here"?

 

TJ is the owner of the site, the only Admin. Therefore, ultimate responsibility to his userbase is with him. TJ had the information to know that this sort of unannounced change would not be well received (everyone in chat when it was first discovered *knew* right away it would be a problem). The Frill thread, the Bright Pink thread, the Snow Angel threads, the Alt Sweetling threads. The huge backlash in the "more retired sprites" thread. The continuing drama over the Prizes.

 

A large, vocal subset of the userbase Does Not Like sprites that are unavailable to everyone for general use. TJ should bloody well have *known* this, and he had a moral obligation as the leader of this site to make *sure* that people were at least told ahead of time.

 

He also has the obligation as the leader of the site to not let Artists push him into actions that he knows would be bad for the site, or that would cause a large enough backlash that it'd have to be changed. No, we don't know who did what in this. But anyone who's been active on the site should easily have been able to predict this result.

 

So TJ has no excuse for not seeing this coming, and it was his responsibility to try to mitigate it. Ultimately, whatever Odeen *wanted*, it is TJ's *responsibility*, so ultimately the fault is his. And all he had to do was add a line in the post on the 19th: "Solstices have something different this year from last...." and the rampant speculation would have seen to it others knew.

 

 

As for this... Also predictable and *predicted* in the Solstice thread. There were three, MUCH better suggestions for how to handle this year made, which would have reduced / eliminated this backlash. They were:

- Let each person pick, ONCE, what each of their dragons would get this year

- All eggs laid before the 23 (the day the Solstices grew up) go Rosie, all laid after go Blue

- Let people make a one-time choice for the 2014s on their own scroll: blue or Rosy

 

 

So yep... Odeen didn't help matters, but it comes down to TJ.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I dunno what all the fuss is about, guys. It's literally just one year.

When I disappeared for a while and missed the Wrapping Wings and the Solstices, I had to wait a year and didn't complain. I'm gonna need to wait almost a year for the Desipis, and the Cavern Lurker, and the Shadow Walker. Still not complaining.

 

My solstice stayed blue wings. So what? Just another twelve months. For those of you who were stuck with just sunset wings, so what? Still only twelve months. In the meantime, we have the holiday raffle, the Valentine's Release, the Halloween release, and some regular releases. It's not //that// bad. And c'mon, it's nobody's fault your eggs happened to be laid at a certain time of day.

 

To be honest, y'all should be grateful for the change. It was much requested, so it happened. And those who missed the release get to have sunset wings and complete their scroll, and those who got some CBs get to keep the sunset wings and still be able to make cool lineages with them (I'd totally like to see a PB Even-gen lineage alternating between the wing colors, to be honest)

If someone made a mess in your house, and then only partially cleaned it, would you be grateful?

 

The decision to do this made a mess of my holiday plans, and the fix, by not being optional, has made just as many new messes as it's fixed. The two dragons I wanted to change did not, while others who wanted them to stay changed. People lost dragons they'll have to wait a year to replace, and they have the right to be sad and upset about that. A year isn't eternity, true, but it's still a pretty big chunk of time!

 

I am glad both will be available next year. I'm glad I'll be able to continue my plans, new players can get rose wings, and that those who like blue wings can keep getting them. I'm glad we have the Solstices to begin with, as they're very pretty. And at the end of the day, I'll agree that all of this is what's most important. Rosy wings are coming back, so I can be relieved even if I still had things messed up for this year.

 

But I still wish things would have been done differently. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, but since not one, but two different highly active threads that were created to bring back exclusives this year apparently failed to convince TJ allowing another exclusive was a bad idea (even if it was a less drastic type of exclusive than the total loss of frills and old pinks), I'm going to keep on yammering.

[indigo]

All of my beautiful Blue Winged Solstices are now rose. I didn't want the rose. I specifically grabbed Solstices eggs to add the solid blue wings to my collection. Now they are all rose and not a single blue. It's nice there is a fix for those that wanted rose wings, but why did my solid blue wings have to go away? I wasn't able to grab eggs with the knowledge of breeding time would affect them. Don't tell about next year. Why couldn't the fix have begun next year?

[cyradis4]

All of my beautiful Blue Winged Solstices are now rose. I didn't want the rose. I specifically grabbed Solstices eggs to add the solid blue wings to my collection. Now they are all rose and not a single blue. It's nice there is a fix for those that wanted rose wings, but why did my solid blue wings have to go away? I wasn't able to grab eggs with the knowledge of breeding time would affect them. Don't tell about next year. Why couldn't the fix have begun next year?

Because everyone who grabbed Solstices in the first 70% of the event were blindsided even more than you were. At least they've been able to salvage some of their work from that first 70% of the event.

 

C4.

[Dubious]

People are understandably upset and have been very polite in sharing their disappointment. They invested a lot of time and effort in collecting one thing only to have it change into another over night, which makes their often many hours of effort wasted. So I cannot fault them for being upset over it. It would be weird if they were not, it would mean they didn't care.

 

It is the way it is and there is nothing we can do about it but continue to commiserate with each other and by next christmas it will be forgotten. I am glad that a compromise was agreed on that allowed us to eventually own both coloured winged sprites, they are both very beautiful and the fact that people are upset about loosing one or the other can only be a credit to the artist that her sprite is very much admired and loved. Better that then having your hard work not matter to anyone, as I see far too often in the artistic area I am involved in.

 

For my part, all mine changed into rosy winged and I was upset at yet another dragon I put such effort into collecting, changing into something else over night and making me wonder why I put the effort in, in the first place. However I considered it and how I am getting used to this (the golds, the sweetlings, the sunsets etc) and finally came to realize that this is the nature of Drag Cave. Once you collect something, keeping it is as it is, is not guaranteed, it may at any time be subject to change. I think that understanding that things are that way makes it a lot easier. Consequently I was upset and angry and now am not.

 

That what you collect may change is not in the main site's 'terms and conditions', and would make things easier in circumstances like this if it was. People would be forewarned that dragons they collect are subject to change at any time, when they sign up to the site and I think that would make things much easier, both for TJ to point to when drama arises and in making sudden changes much easier for folks to swallow.

 

Edit: I edited it as it wasn't clear.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Dubious

[Odeen]

C4: lolno

[Walron]

 

Edit: Never mind. False alarm. I'm so sorry but I'm so dum. I forgot that they told me they had a really old scroll but had only been mainly active the past few months. I thought it was date sorted with a pink older then a bright but it must have been custom. I'm sooooo sorry. I didn't mean to have a false alarm

Edited January 11, 2015 by Walron

[Asketil]

Mine look like they will stay blue, could have sworn I got on at midnight but idc both are beautiful

[Earth Gurl]

You have to realize that though this is a compromise, many of us (especially those of us who didn't get any blues because of this "compromise") got the short end of the stick compared to others.

Either way, someone would have to wait. If someone wanted Rosy wings but TJ decided to leave the change to dragons bred in 2015, people who didn't have Rosy wings would be extremely frustrated about waiting a year.

People who didn't get blue wings this year (HAD THEM, but had them forcibly changed) will have to wait a whole year to get blue wings back. And we are extremely frustrated.

Either way, someone is going to be extremely frustrated, and I believe that those of us who DO have to wait a year have a RIGHT to be extremely frustrated, as those who would have had to wait a year for Rosy wings would have been.

So it makes so sense that some users are telling us that we shouldn't be upset because it's a "compromise" OR assuming that we are selfish people who didn't want anyone else to have the Rosy wings, when that was certainly not the case.

 

 

Edit: Either way this situation is a total mess, and there really isn't any way to NOT make it a total mess. So there's nothing any of us can really do, I suppose. But I'm still going to be upset about it.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Earth Gurl

[amthystfire]

Eh, welcome to Dragon Cave.

 

All of mine stayed blue.

My ONE 2G that I picked up this year turned pink. I am excited to see the site changes rolling out, honestly. Have any of you seen something new or different going on with the site that wasn't explicitly stated?

[Rhynn Collins]

*grabs popcorn* the DC drama season has started early this year, it seems.

[Odeen]

*grabs popcorn* the DC drama season has started early this year, it seems.

*attempts to steal popcorn*

[FiveSix]

*coaxes drama-distracting kitten over*

 

I'm now super paranoid that the mate I got for the only one of my Solstices the turned rosy (and thus will be consistent throughout the lineage) will misgender, even though I'm 99% sure I influenced him right. Something like four hours to find out...

 

His code has a boy's name in it though which is pretty cool :3

[zaverxi]

I had a half and half for color changes, but you know what? I'm an adult, I can wait a year. The only issue is that I'll have to wait a year to do the checkers I planned on since I need to rebreed a few 2nd gens. No biggie.

 

I am not going to blame TJ and Odeen for allowing us to have both colors instead of either or. It is not a situation like Snow Angels or alt sweetlings, it is an alt that lets us choose. We just need to be patient and wait until next Christmas. Would this have been nice to know before breedings were done? Sure, but is everyone perfect? No. There was a mistake, it was worked with to fix, there is no need to complain. Thank you, Odeen, for making not one, but TWO gorgeous sprites.

 

 

*gets the caramel coated popcorn* And to think the raffle hasn't even been drawn yet and already drama. Maybe it'll be less because people are complaining already.... hopefully they'll run out of power.

 

I wonder if we can somehow convert butthurtness into energy, we could probably power the entire world for the rest of human existence, probably even beyond that.

Edited January 11, 2015 by zaverxi

[Amazon_warrior]

I wonder if we can somehow convert butthurt whining into energy, we could probably power the entire world for the rest of human existence, probably even beyond that.

*has a sudden mental image of a Monsters Inc. style power station powered by OMGDRAMA! instead of scream*

[raichuluxray]

If someone made a mess in your house, and then only partially cleaned it, would you be grateful?

 

The decision to do this made a mess of my holiday plans, and the fix, by not being optional, has made just as many new messes as it's fixed. The two dragons I wanted to change did not, while others who wanted them to stay changed. People lost dragons they'll have to wait a year to replace, and they have the right to be sad and upset about that. A year isn't eternity, true, but it's still a pretty big chunk of time!

 

I am glad both will be available next year. I'm glad I'll be able to continue my plans, new players can get rose wings, and that those who like blue wings can keep getting them. I'm glad we have the Solstices to begin with, as they're very pretty. And at the end of the day, I'll agree that all of this is what's most important. Rosy wings are coming back, so I can be relieved even if I still had things messed up for this year.

 

But I still wish things would have been done differently. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, but since not one, but two different highly active threads that were created to bring back exclusives this year apparently failed to convince TJ allowing another exclusive was a bad idea (even if it was a less drastic type of exclusive than the total loss of frills and old pinks), I'm going to keep on yammering.

Just saying, but if someone came into my house and made a mess, I'd call the cops because clearly somebody broke in. And I'd change my locks and stuff too.

 

This wasn't a mess until people decided they didn't like what color wings they got on a fictional dragon made of pixels. We are talking about pixels on an online game.

 

A lot of people made suggestions about the Solstices. A lot of people were all for a change so that we could have non-CB sunset wings. But of course, once TJ and Odeen make the change, nobody is grateful for it. TJ probably had a lot of other things he could have implemented, but he changed the Solstice's for the community. Which clearly doesn't appreciate his effort.

No offense guys, but to be quite honest, I wish they hadn't changed now, simply because everybody's being dramatic and ungrateful.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be out of this argument. But seriously. This is utterly ridiculous and unneeded.

[annageckos]

Only one of mine turned rosy, the rest stayed blue. Oh well, there is always next year. I love both colors, but the rosy are my favorite.

[_Sin_]

A lot of people made suggestions about the Solstices. A lot of people were all for a change so that we could have non-CB sunset wings. But of course, once TJ and Odeen make the change, nobody is grateful for it. TJ probably had a lot of other things he could have implemented, but he changed the Solstice's for the community. Which clearly doesn't appreciate his effort.

No offense guys, but to be quite honest, I wish they hadn't changed now, simply because everybody's being dramatic and ungrateful.

Actually, I'm very grateful. Did I get all the rosy wings that I expected initially? No. But 50% turned rosy so I'm very happy. And reading this thread, many, many people seem to be grateful as well.