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2015-01-08 - Glorydrake/2013 Holiday Changes

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What blackdragon71 said!

 

I don't hang around here much, but I do lurk around occasionally... I see things haven't changed. There's always someone upset about something.

 

I am *GLAD* they've made the compromise! I like both (but yeah, I have a fondness for the original). I think last year's Christmas dragons are among my most favorite of all of them.

 

So YAY for compromise! Yay for BOTH kinds of Solstice dragons!

 

Yay for Dragon Cave!

 

 

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It is counter-productive that people who are suddenly complaining about the compromise made that basically apologizes for a lack of communication, because the dragons they wanted to keep blue or the ones they really wanted rosy did not change, are now out of the woodwork, clamoring for yet more just to accommodate their own wishes.  Where were those voices the night debate first arose?  It has been in discussion for weeks at this point, and a decision has been reached to try and give both parties (blue or rosy) something they can work with, now and in the future.  You really cannot please all the people all the time, but in this matter, TJ and Odeen, though they could have told us all to go pound sand, did their level best to listen and work with the idea (there were 3 major trains of thought) presented that would fit, not only certain styles of play, but Odeen's vision of her original concept.  If you (collective) wanted to be in the majority of either side of this discussion, you had your chance.  Passively-aggressively sitting back and waiting until something was done, just to see if it would be what YOU wanted does not sway things in your favor and will no longer move change. 

 

It's also inconsiderate and just plain mean toward Odeen in particular (since she's the spriter who has spoken up), for people to react in their unhappiness by threatening to kill their dragons and use them for zombie fodder or whatever.    Who gave anyone that sort of right to make another person, especially one who gives of their time and talent without pay other than she actually has a truly exclusive sprite, feel badly about this whole debacle?  She had a plan for HER solstice dragon concept.  There was miscommunication about what the future of that sprite was, and she worked with TJ and us to find a solution to the confusion of plans.  What is taking place now (the change of the wing colors on sprites born at night vs. day), is a compromise between her rights as an artist involved and her sense of community with the rest of us.  Again, not everyone can be appeased, but it has to be something that will benefit the majority of well over 10,000 players, not the most put-out people on the forums who are taking a last opportunity to bite a very generous hand or two because they aren't getting their own way or just have to have the last word on the topic.

 

 

 

*Edited because I can't spell.

I agree with much of this post.

 

That is the important thing to remember, the reason this was handled the way it was was because Odeen, as an artist, had a certain vision for the dragon she helped make. She explicitly said she didn't feel comfortable with the idea of giving people the ability to choose the color on the Solstices wings. You can't expect TJ to go against HER express wishes that, if retroactive fixes were applied that they NOT be opt in/opt out. While, granted he wants to make the userbase happy, he no doubt wants to keep the artists that help- make this site what it is happy as well. Keep in mind that Odeen could have simply said, I made my choice... deal with it.

 

Bottom line... you can't please EVERYONE ALL the time.

I think TJ made the best choice he knew how on this while trying to please as many users as possible while still bearing in mind Odeen's wishes for her work as well. To those whose dragons miscolored... i am sorry that your lineage projects were set back by this.

At least, though, BOTH colors will be available next Christmas and people will KNOW how to get the color they like best.

Edited by Silverswift

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blackdragon71 i am glad that you pointed it out. I am not a native speaker in English i can read English very well but to write my thoughts down in a foreign language is difficult for me.

 

 

So in my simply words:

Hip, hip hooray! Odeen has a heart for us and let us have the rosy wings instead of never ever let us see this again besides older scroll or scrolls from users who are there when the Solstice were in the cave.

 

I really don't like it when we are not able to collect a sprite besides Old Pink, Frilled and all the Alts for the spriters.

 

 

@Odeen and all the others who made the return of the original Solstice possible

A big hug and thousand Thanks!

 

@Malic

I would also have fight for the return of the rosy winged ones just for fairness. (Uh, i don't know if i choose the right word mayby justness or justice?)

And in the trading section i was able to get a cheese dragon. biggrin.gif Never ever saw on of them in the cave too. So good luck for your trades!

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YEP! Once again I get royally SCREWED!

 

The only bred Solstice I had got changed to the old style and I am EXTREMELY upset about it!

 

Finally for once....for ONCE I was able to be around to get something special and then I get screwed and have it yanked away from me.

 

I LOVED the alternate color of the bred Solstice dragons and was hugely excited and happy when I saw it! Now all that is ruined!

 

First off the change should have been announced or at least hinted at BEFORE christmas dragons were breedable for the year.

THEN trying to fix it by screwing over the other half of the people was not the way to fix it either.

You should have given people the option if they wanted it changed or not.

 

But as usual I end up on the side that gets royally screwed! People call it a compromise....it's not a compromise....I don't have a choice in the matter. I get forced to have my dragons changed and I don't want them changed! That's not a compromise, that is me losing and getting screwed over!!!

 

I've been coming to DC since 2008, with a small exception of when I was with out internet for about 8 months (which low and behold screwed me out of ever having a chance of getting a frilled dragon.) And I try so hard to get certain special things and never do. I've been trying to get cave born silvers ever since I started back in 08, never have...and probabaly never will because I swear they don't even drop anymore. I haven't seen once in 3 years. I might be happy if I can find a 3rd or 4th gen, small lineage...but I swear no one breeds them anymore either cause I haven't seen one in the AP in 3 years either. I've tried to get a gold since long before the sprite change (incidentally I preferred the old one) but I haven't seen one of those eggs in the cave or AP for 5 years. Not that I could ever grab one fast enough even if I did. I've never won any of the prize dragons, and since they don't do the games anymore for prizes, I'll never be able to get cave born one of them either. Instead I have to weed through the very few I ever see on the AP and if I am lucky enough to grab it fast enough try to find one that has a short decent lineage....and that is getting increasingly difficult. I tried for 5 years to get a Holly dragon and was only ever able to get one when the holiday limits were changed and at the same time something must have been done with the amount of eggs they produce because they suddenly started appearing like crazy when they used to be very sparse, so I am sure most everyone has one now....not nearly as special....but trying to find one with a short and decent lineage is very difficult.

 

But yet I see people with these things all the time. But I never get any!

 

And FINALLY...finally one time I get something special and something I really really liked and it get taken away from me!!!!

 

So if I seem VERY VERY upset, it is because I am!!!!

 

Yeah well I've been playing since early 2009, I missed my chance to get CB Solstices, and how you feel now is how I felt when the original announcement first came out. That is the precise definition of a compromise - we both had to agree to something that isn't what either side really wanted, but is closer to what both want than giving either side its way completely. If I got my way completely, you'd still be upset, but if you'd gotten your way completely, I'd still be as upset as you are now. And it's not just you and I, it's a lot of people in the player base. No matter what decision was made, a large chunk of people were going to be unhappy. That's life. TJ and Odeen are doing their best to make the largest number of people possible happy, or at least less unhappy, including the original spriter (Odeen) and TJ himself. Which is all they can be reasonably expected to do. I'm sorry you feel screwed over, but the game doesn't revolve around you alone anymore than it does me or any other player, so by definition, you aren't being screwed over. You're just not getting the result you wanted. Which sucks. But it's not the same as being screwed over.

 

And incidentally, I don't have any CB Solstices as I mentioned, so when the blue ones appeared out of nowhere, it DASHED my hopes of getting the beautiful rosywing sprite. I like the blue ones okay, but not nearly as much as the original. And when I heard this was being done, I was really happy and hopeful. But of the bred Solstices I grabbed this year, precisely ONE turns out to be a rosywing after the change. Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I flipping out about it? No. I can get more rosywings next year. And you can keep entering the raffle and trying to be around for holidays and other events. If you do that you have as much chance of getting a "shiny" as any other (honest, noncheating) player does.

Edited by Lurhstaap

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I've been coming to DC since 2008, with a small exception of when I was with out internet for about 8 months (which low and behold screwed me out of ever having a chance of getting a frilled dragon.)

This is not personal. The change is not personal. The compromise is not personal. It's not about you, just like the retirement of Frills (which were available for over a year) and the fall of rares and sudden bounty of Hollies is not about you. It's about finding a way so that everyone can get the dragon they want.

 

You can get the dragon you want. It'll take you a year and some planning, but that's part of the game.

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Oh yes. All except one Solstice changed color. Back to my favorite rosy-winged color. Now i will actually collect lots of them.

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I'm glad this change was made, but now I'm a little sad I have a night-bred solstice from this year. xd.png

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-sniff- I was hoping they'd stay blue, but mine changed. I am so very, very sad. I'm going to have to be so careful next year and I'll probably forget. I love the blue so much more and now I have none. :c

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I wasn't really too happy about the new Solstices, but I liked them. I'm more upset at the fact that the 3 I grabbed this year all turned out to be rosy sad.gif I wish at least ONE would have stayed blue lol. I wish we had a like, one time choice of trading adults up to the amount we have or the ones we want to get the non-rosy, or had a choice to have certain ones put back to blue lol...

 

But yeah, I guess I'll just have to trade next year for correct bred ones.

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I very much hope that, in the future, TJ and/or artists will be much more upfront about plans for various breeds, especially Holidays, which can only breed once a year.
Personally I place the blame with TJ. My intention for saying this is not because I'm mad at TJ or anything - mistakes happen sometimes! - but because I have watched people (nicely) blame the artist and I needed finally to voice what I have been feeling. I of course have no idea what the artist has been taking away from all the discussion/drama/etc but if this is read I hope it will be a counterpoint to any possible idea that the responsibility for making sure communication happened did not ultimately fall on TJ. Of course there are behind-the-scenes things that may have happened last year that I have no idea about but I hope that in general there would be the appropriate "buck stops with me" attitude on TJ's part.

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Oooooh, guess I was lucky, cause...

 

Sunset X Solstice lineage turned rosy again, YAY!

Sunrise X Albino lineage turned rosy again, YAY!

Frostbite X Solstice lineage stayed blue, YAY!

...and Sunrise X Solstice lineage stayed blue, oh well, that's the only one I will redo next year (and I will keep it anyway, even if I don't continue the lineage)

 

So thanks again Odeen and TJ for giving us chance, both this year and in the years to come, to build the lineages we like best! wub.gif

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All the ones I picked up were blue this year. And that's fine with me. I can't afford to get upset over an Internet game.

 

Thanks to TJ and the artists who make this site possible.

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Personally I place the blame with TJ. My intention for saying this is not because I'm mad at TJ or anything - mistakes happen sometimes! - but because I have watched people (nicely) blame the artist and I needed finally to voice what I have been feeling. I of course have no idea what the artist has been taking away from all the discussion/drama/etc but if this is read I hope it will be a counterpoint to any possible idea that the responsibility for making sure communication happened did not ultimately fall on TJ. Of course there are behind-the-scenes things that may have happened last year that I have no idea about but I hope that in general there would be the appropriate "buck stops with me" attitude on TJ's part.

I am not understanding why you are blaming TJ? If you do not know the facts, what is the point of placing blame?

Just my take on this topic...

Members in several topics were more then a little upset about the change in the Solstices, solutions were added, now members are upset by not having the new colored Solstice.

 

 

 

 

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I think it was a great idea for the color changes. I ended up with one blue and three rosey wings, but at least I know I can dictate which colors I get next year. I'm really happy to know we can get both colors. Awesome job, TJ and spriter! Sorry, I'm horrible at remembering names of spriters for some reason.

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Thanks for the Solistice dragon adjustment! Not that the blue ones aren't nice, but the other pattern is stunning.

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Yay thanks for the update TJ biggrin.gif I wonder if I'll get the original coloring or not smile.gif

You can already check, the change has been made smile.gif

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I am not understanding why you are blaming TJ? If you do not know the facts, what is the point of placing blame?

Just my take on this topic...

Members in several topics were more than a little upset about the change in the Solstices, solutions were added, now members are upset by not having the new colored Solstice.

This. TJ and Odeen have worked together to give us a solution. We now have one which is eminently fair; the worst case scenario is that some people have to wait a year to get the 2 gen colour they want. Just as I do to carry on my multiple checker lineages with any Christmas dragons in. One lousy extra year. Big deal.

 

They'll be back next year, Malic. I know it sucks, but the blue wings aren't gone forever. sad.gif

This from one of the noisiest "colour me outraged" players ?? xd.png Strange... But that is also my view. EVERYTHING (except CBs, as is always the case with holidays) is now available to us, which it wasn't before; the only SMALL down side is the need for a bit of patience. Patience is a virtue, the last I heard. Deal, my loves, DEAL !

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Members in several topics were more then a little upset about the change in the Solstices, solutions were added, now members are upset by not having the new colored Solstice.

Eh, welcome to Dragon Cave. wink.gif

 

All of mine stayed blue.

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I am not understanding why you are blaming TJ? If you do not know the facts, what is the point of placing blame?

Just my take on this topic...

Members in several topics were more then a little upset about the change in the Solstices, solutions were added, now members are upset by not having the new colored Solstice.

Except the solution were a forced fix. Those of us who liked the blue variant had no option to keep them. Those of us who traded or specifically AP grabbed to get more blues got burnt.

 

And now all my blues are gone. I have none.

 

And sure, I can get some a year from now. Except, you know, I already had some.

 

I don't get why this was not an opt in thing. Not all of us wanted the original version, some of us liked the blue Solstices. A lot.

 

Or make it effective Xmas 2015. And I know some will say "Well I have blues, why should I have to wait a year for rose colored?" but the flip side is I had blues, loved them and now .....

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I am not understanding why you are blaming TJ? If you do not know the facts, what is the point of placing blame?

Just my take on this topic...

Members in several topics were more then a little upset about the change in the Solstices, solutions were added, now members are upset by not having the new colored Solstice.

What I said has nothing to do with fuzzbucket's idea that they worked together for a good fix or jocosa's idea that it was a forced fix. I'm not saying anything about colors - not the way they originally were nor the fact that they were changed nor how the change came about.

 

I'm saying that last year, TJ should have been the one to *make sure* communication happened, so that at that point we would have known that the rosy ones were going to be unique to CB instead of having to wait a year assuming we knew that they'd breed like every other holiday dragon.

 

There was a quote from TJ somewhere a while ago saying that he had thought that the artist had said something and it turned out the artist didn't say something. So I just am hoping that people would not be upset with the artist for not communicating.

 

In the quote I replied to in this thread a few posts back, someone said they hoped TJ and/or artists would communicate better and I am just saying that I think that burden does not rest with the artists.

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I'm not too happy about the solstice dragons... I'm pretty certain all my dragons were bred/caught in the day so that means that even my CB dragons will lose their wing colour... how annoying ;p

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I'm not too happy about the solstice dragons... I'm pretty certain all my dragons were bred/caught in the day so that means that even my CB dragons will lose their wing colour... how annoying ;p

If they haven't already they wont - the changes are done, everything is in its final state now.

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I'm not too happy about the solstice dragons... I'm pretty certain all my dragons were bred/caught in the day so that means that even my CB dragons will lose their wing colour... how annoying ;p

The change does not affect your CBs. Also, what your 2Gs look like now is what they'll always look like; the change was applied a day or so ago.

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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