Increase the raffle winners pool

[olympe]

This thread has come to revolving around discussions on win rate--which is something that will not be made public, and without that, that sort of discussion will not be meaningful.

 

Thus, your options are basically to trust me when I say that I take many factors, including the participant base, into account when doing every raffle, and move onto other potential raffle changes (if any), or you can keep discussing claims that are essentially invalid because they're based on weak assumptions. If the latter is what happens, then I'll probably close the thread, because as I said, such discussion is meaningless.

 

tl;dr: I assert that the win rate is satisfactory, you can choose whether or not to believe me.

Well, if the forums are any indication, I don't believe you when you assert that the win rate is satisfactory. Because

1. Winners still get (almost-)harrassed to breed.
2. Low-gen prizes are very hard to come by unless you pay with another low-gen prize, which turns them into some kind of currency.
3. Trades are hugely dominated by prize trades due to the value of said (low-gen) prizes.

That's three different, if related indicators that something isn't quite right with prizes - and that's not even taking into account that people feel left out and discuss the raffle with trepidation instead of anticipation. Edited January 7, 2015 by olympe

[DragonLady86]

15,000 entries, may I ask where that number came from. To my knowledge the only time the entry numbers were released was the first year. (approx. 9000 trees) and definitely do NOT want a 1/15 entries is a winner ratio. Particularly since EVERYONE could have had 15 entries this year. Do you really want to see some people win 15 prizes and others still get nothing?

 

 

Edit: 14 entry's this year, bad math.

 

Olympe:

 

1. harassment should be reported

2. low gen is recognized by the game the exact same as high gen

3. not everyone wants prizes and I actually dislike when I get offered them on trades. but again, low gen vs high gen is player opinion not game mechanics.

Edited January 7, 2015 by DragonLady86

[Obscure_Trash]

Is that really so? Wow. Its pretty much impossible to get a prize. I didnt realize the chances were that low.

 

I believe that number was an example based off the first post using 1% as an example, not an actual number of entries.

 

EDIT: I was beat to explaining the above by the original poster, lol, but since DragonLady86 asked, I'll point her towards that as well. ^^

 

Anyway, I was trying to figure out how to say this, but TJ's original post states it best:

 

This thread has come to revolving around discussions on win rate--which is something that will not be made public, and without that, that sort of discussion will not be meaningful.

 

So perhaps this discussion needs to evolve a bit to talk more about, as someone put it: how to keep prizes still rare and special if rates are changed? How many is too many? What is rare and special?

 

Tbh, I don't think people are going to be satisfied until they win or until they have a very good chance of winning, which is just not how this raffle was built to work: it was built to give out a rare and special prize. So perhaps this discussion is about changing the mechanics of the raffle altogether, which is not something I'm entirely sure I would support.

Edited January 7, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Amazon_warrior]

I'm going to bring up this post from last year:

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=7973445

 

The truthfulness of that post has not changed in the past 360 days.

This is my unsurprised face.

 

 

 

Seriously people, we *don't* have any of the figures required to discuss this in any meaningful way. (Also, I may scream the next time someone states "The user base has grown LOADS since the first event!" like it's a cast iron fact and they have the numbers to back it up when blatantly they DON'T. )

[AnanoKimi]

I'm going to bring up this post from last year:

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=7973445

 

The truthfulness of that post has not changed in the past 360 days.

Honestly thats just saying, "Hey, hey trust me. I got this." But the number of unsatisfied players, stressed out winners, and an overall dislike for the raffle shows that the winner stats are not satisfactory. Unless the plan is to increase last years numbers in a way that is significant while still keeping the CB's exclusive and decently rare, then sure. Otherwise you're setting everyone up for another year of very few CB Prizes, even less planning to actively breed them, and a continuously high demand for offspring that happen once in a blue moon.

 

Something is gonna give TJ if its not an increase in how many winners there are, its gonna be the BSA's if its not the BSA's its gonna be the giant demand to have a dragon envisioned to be a rare exclusive to be thrown into the cave so people stop complaining about the lack of offspring and pretty lineages...

 

I dont want that last thing to happen. I really dont.

 

Seriously people, we *don't* have any of the figures required to discuss this in any meaningful way. (Also, I may scream the next time someone states "The user base has grown LOADS since the first event!" like it's a cast iron fact and they have the numbers to back it up when blatantly they DON'T.)

 

I know but no one is basing this off numbers we think we know, just a suggestion of what can maybe be done if its not done already to help alleviate some of that pressure so many feel this time of year with the raffle. We may be shooting in the dark but maybe this can bring to light that something went wrong here and the raffles are not the fun "Hey cool something new and shiny" event that was originally envisioned.

 

yes the stress is user created but that does not take away from the fact that it exists and some way of alleviating this needs to be done before people become way to on board on making raffles crash and burn and Prizes to become super rare or rare cave drops.

Edited January 7, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[olympe]

@Sock: I think that handing out prizes to everyone would help. Yeah, the prize wouldn't be super-duper-über-special any more, but they'd still be rare. You'd only be able to get one per year. And there are 6, maybe 9 different prizes to be handed out, not to mention honorable mentions.

 

In essence: Even if you get 1 prize every year, as long as TJ releases 3 new prizes every other year, you'll never get them all as CBs. Never. Sure, you wouldn't be able to sell your 2nd gens for 3-6 CB golds and whatnot, but I think that, as a whole, DC's inofficial economy would benefit from it. In essence, CB prizes would be a little more like GoNs (rare & special), while 2nd gens would be like 2nd gen avatars: Still special, still nice to collect, but pretty easy to get and actually usable for lineage breeding.

 

[Rally Vincent]

The best way to deal with the raffle is to get your tickets and move on when you don't win, just like you'd do with a lottery. If one can't do that, just imagine how much harder someone will take it when they don't win with even more prizes are given out.

 

From what I've read in various raffle-related threads over the years, my guess is that not winning a 1:2 chance would be much harder to bear for players than a 1:200 chance...

[LaHaine]

tl;dr: I assert that the win rate is satisfactory, you can choose whether or not to believe me.

 

Doesn't seem to be satisfactory for the overall public, but that's just my opinion from watching drama for 2 years in a row.

[JavaTigress]

Support from me. And for the following reasons:

 

 

Better chances at winning. Maybe I shouldn't have put this on the top, but it is a strong motivator. 

 

More breeding stock = better chances of satisfying the market. (I also doubt that people will be as crazy as collect offspring of 1000 different prize lineages - if we do get that many, that is. Which, in turn, just might decrease overall demand.) Of course, the ratios would need to get adapted, too. I'd love to see "fixed" ratios of successfully breeding a shiny for prizes only - after all, there are no cave drops to complicate matters.

 

Prizes will lose value if they're more common. Which means that prizes won't be the DC money printing presses they currently are, nor will prizes be as dominant in the trading threads as they are now. Which also means people won't have to pay an arm and a leg and probably their firstborn child in order to trade for a (low-gen) prize.

 

Problems I can see if this gets implemented:

 

The more prizes there are, the higher the risk of people winning twice or even three times. (In all seriousness: If someone should manage a third win, I'd urge TJ to check his RNG.) The result: More drama.

 

Ratios. They need to be adapted, or breeding will be harder from the very beginning.

 

These all seem to be excellent reasons to me.

 

Support.

 

THOUGH I would mention that while I , truthfully, would see reducing the trade value of low gen prizes as a PLUS, some prize owners might NOT. NOT sure what can be done about that.

(Granted some of them are OK with this, which is great )

 

That said, this idea has support from me.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Silverswift

[MedievalMystic]

The best way to deal with the raffle is to get your tickets and move on when you don't win,

 

Indeed. lol

[Imzadi]

Honestly thats just saying, "Hey, hey trust me. I got this." But the number of unsatisfied players, stressed out winners, and an overall dislike for the raffle shows that the winner stats are not satisfactory.

Guess what? The only think that will make people not be unhappy is for every single player to get a prize. And then the euphoria will wear off and there will be people unhappy because they got bronze and not silver or gold. Anyone who thinks otherwise is overly idealistic.

Granted, an increase in winners would be great, because then there would fewer unhappy people. But the only way to make everyone happy is to give everyone a CB gold silver and bronze tinsel and shimmer.

 

I take it back...somehow, somewhere, someone will still be unhappy.

Edited January 7, 2015 by ainisarie

[AnanoKimi]

Well aside from that Rally. I mean that would be the ideal, for everyone to just kinda sit back and accept it and just try for next year. That dose not seem to be the case.

 

Neh. Honestly if there really is no reason to change it in the end then we'll just have to learn to roll with it really X3 I'm still gonna be poking at the other BSA's for approval since they benefit all breeders, not just prizes.

 

Guess what? The only think that will make people not be unhappy is for every single player to get a prize. And then the euphoria will wear off and there will be people unhappy because they got bronze and not silver or gold. Anyone who thinks otherwise is overly idealistic.

Granted, an increase in winners would be great, because then there would fewer unhappy people. But the only way to make everyone happy is to give everyone a CB gold silver and bronze tinsel and shimmer.

 

Which is why this whole issue everyone has irks me. I mean an increase in possible winners isnt a loose, but its not made to satisfy everyone, just sort of hush em up some. The rest can be dealt with. Its harder to deal with when you have a group of 5 against a whole group compared to a decent group against another decent group X3 even the odds out a bit ya know~

Edited January 7, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[whitebaron]

Well, if the forums are any indication, I don't believe you when you assert that the win rate is satisfactory. Because

1. Winners still get (almost-)harrassed to breed.

just picking up on that.

Winners get "harrassed" by breeders, mostly. Those who wants their perfect checkers, their lineages, their options.

[MedievalMystic]

Guess what? The only think that will make people not be unhappy is for every single player to get a prize. And then the euphoria will wear off and there will be people unhappy because they got bronze and not silver or gold. Anyone who thinks otherwise is overly idealistic.

Granted, an increase in winners would be great, because then there would fewer unhappy people. But the only way to make everyone happy is to give everyone a CB gold silver and bronze tinsel and shimmer.

 

While I am for an increase in the overall number of prizes given out, I agree with you totally on that. I'm not in agreement with the entire player base getting a dragon meant to be special and unique to the raffle.

[stagazer_7]

I see no downside in this, so why not... support.

[JavaTigress]

While I am for an increase in the overall number of prizes given out, I agree with you totally on that. I'm not in agreement with the entire player base getting a dragon meant to be special and unique to the raffle.

I don't THINK this thread was about EVERYONE getting a prize.

 

IF I am wrong someone can correct me. I Think it was just saying that there should be MORE winners than there currently are.

[Amazon_warrior]

The best way to deal with the raffle is to get your tickets and move on when you don't win, just like you'd do with a lottery. If one can't do that, just imagine how much harder someone will take it when they don't win with even more prizes are given out.

Ayup. Apparently easier said than done, though. :s

 

From what I've read in various raffle-related threads over the years, my guess is that not winning a 1:2 chance would be much harder to bear for players than a 1:200 chance...

Interesting. I don't know enough psychology for this (the closest I got was dating half a psychologist...!), but you may have a point there.

[BlueMint]

Goodness why are people suggesting that everyone get a prize? Please no. That would make everything worse. *shudders*

Edited January 7, 2015 by BlueMint

[AnanoKimi]

I mean in the over all the real issue is not the raffle, or the number of CBs, or the winners, but the ones who did not win and cant get what they want in their own little world. Them. Those people need to lay off the entirety of raffles really.

 

Thats why I mentioned the whole if users just relaxed and take their time, the world aint gonna blow up just cuz you can't have your perfect stairstep, eg, checkered prize baby lineage. Just cool your jets, simmer down, breathe dude.

 

Yeah. Just. People need to calm down and take a breather man.

Edited January 7, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[olympe]

Goodness why are people suggesting that everyone get a prize? Please no. That would make everything worse. *shudders*

How so?

[MedievalMystic]

@Silverswift:

 

I think that handing out prizes to everyone would help.

 

Someone's suggestion.

[AnanoKimi]

How so?

because its not how they were envisioned, they weren't meant to be uncommon or rares, they were created and envisioned as exclusives. They were made this way for a reason. That's kinda why as I see it.

[Syphoneira]

The best way to deal with the raffle is to get your tickets and move on when you don't win, just like you'd do with a lottery. If one can't do that, just imagine how much harder someone will take it when they don't win with even more prizes are given out.

 

From what I've read in various raffle-related threads over the years, my guess is that not winning a 1:2 chance would be much harder to bear for players than a 1:200 chance...

 

 

Hi, Rally Vincent!

 

I think the problem is not really with people not winning, it's things like the inability:

 

for people to get on lists,

 

for owners to clear lists,

 

for the very few owners, relatively speaking, to avoid being swamped with an unimaginable number of requests from hundreds or perhaps even thousands of people,

 

for people to be able to get sprites suitable for use in lineages,

 

for owners to get on with any lineage plans they may have had, because of not being able to clear lists,

 

for trade rates to normalize while everything rotates around low-gen Prizes,

 

and other dragons become valued not by individual value to individual people, but for what they'd bring in trade for low-gen Prizes,

 

while the value of everything drops except for 2nd gens,

 

which are the only available stage at which people can start even-gen lineages,

 

and whatever people have of Prizes 3rd gen and below loses trade value while 2nd gens don't,

 

because so few CB Prizes are producing so few 2nd gens.

 

I expect I've missed some...

[JavaTigress]

@Silverswift:

 

 

 

Someone's suggestion.

Ah! Well, if that was someone's particular idea, I would oppose THAT.

 

As someone said, I don't see that making anything better.

I DO think that the number of prize winners should be increased.... though I do NOT support giving out prizes to everyone.

[DragonNighthowler]

To be honest, I'm way over caring about the prize dragon's rarity. I just want the cave to stop revolving around the same 6 breeds, as it has been doing for the past 4 years. This was a nice experiment, and, IMO, it didn't work. It'd be better to release the creature in cave and keep the raffles as the Honorable Mentions, if there must be a raffle.