Allow foreign characters in dragon names

[JavaTigress]

But it really doesn't change anything.

There are millions of foreign names on the site. They just don't contain foreign characters.

They can be just as dirty without all these pretty letters English lacks

 

The German word for tail is Schwanz, but it also means penis.

No umlauts here. Also, if someone wants to name their swallowtail just that, they will have problems they didn't deserve.

 

I would be very excited to see foreign characters in the game, especially Scandinavian ones.

And as for seeing boxes instead of fonts, this can be easily fixwd by installing them.

And that was EXACTLY my point about the translator thing.

 

A translator might NOT warn a person that that also meant that.

Thanks for giving a pertinent example of what I was talking about.

I DO get your point, of course, that dirty double meaning names in other languages CAN be rendered without the other letters or characters.

 

That said, for the most part I wouldn't have a problem with this suggestion over all... the only issue I seee with allowing things like Kanji is that many computers don't recognize them. They might appear, as others have said, as nothing but boxes.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Silverswift

[CNR4806]

I still find the entire notion of "but there would be people who use it to slip in naughty names" silly.

 

They can already be done with non-English latin-based language and romanized non-latin languages. In fact, I think there are fewer translators that can translate romanized languages than those that can translate the language in its original form, and since translators can give non-speakers a clue to obvious rule-breaking content, there would be arguably fewer naughty content that can slip past if you allow foreign characters.

 

However, I am still of the opinion that this is an English site, and non-latin characters just don't fit in. The technical horrors of unicode failure are just the icing on the cake.

Edited January 10, 2015 by CNR4806

[Mondat]

Again, its for your personal gain, only for you, and no one else. The only reason you include to possibly have other languages is so it won't look bad and be rejected. In the end its not a suggestion to improve game play or ease of access or etc, its so you can can name your dragons how you want regardless of whether the rest of the user base and Mods can read it or not.

(Get well soon! I myself am fighting with a terrible cough these days...)

Fuzzbucket asked me directly and I replied..?

I have no problem with you stating that I "only include other languages so it won't look bad and be rejected" if that's what you think. Considering that I'm German and would like to see German Umlauts, considering that I can use Japanese, considering that I still remember French, considering that I would also use Polish since that's the mother tongue of my parents, considering I am very interested in Chinese & Afrikaans but just too busy for studying regularly...

And while I also have no problem with being told that this suggestion does not improve game play, ease of access and that "it's only for me so I can name my dragon how I want", please consider that there are people who would like to see an extended alphabet - which you seem to support?

 

In fact, I think there are fewer translators that can translate romanized languages than those that can translate the language in its original form, and since translators can give non-speakers a clue to obvious rule-breaking content, there would be arguably fewer naughty content that can slip past if you allow foreign characters.

That's what I actually thought as well earlier but didn't write it.

 

@DragonNighthowler

Yes, let's just agree to disagree here. Languages are very complex and very interesting, I agree - I wish I could learn many more

[Fuzzbucket]

In fact installing a kanji font might not help that much. I have a cyrillic font installed - but there are several out there, and it only shows up right on SOME sites and not others... The Dragcave font itself doesn't show properly if you try and use it in Word, unless you install it !

 

(That's IN the dragcave font, and I bet a lot here will see it as just rather large letters instead ?)

[olympe]

I really am not at all worried about inappropriate content, to be honest. It can be done already, and due to different meanings of the same words in different languages.

 

For example, I could name one dragon "Latte" and his mate "Macchiato". Nice, right? Absolutely proper. Unless you happen to be well-versed in German and only look at the male's name "Latte". Because in German, that word can also refer to an erection. Oops.

 

Adding in another font or non-standard letters won't change that.

Edited January 10, 2015 by olympe

[Sheriziya]

In fact installing a kanji font might not help that much. I have a cyrillic font installed - but there are several out there, and it only shows up right on SOME sites and not others... The Dragcave font itself doesn't show properly if you try and use it in Word, unless you install it !

 

(That's IN the dragcave font, and I bet a lot here will see it as just rather large letters instead ?)

Errr yeah..... I'm not sure if the DC font is installed on my computer though.

[Fuzzbucket]

Errr yeah..... I'm not sure if the DC font is installed on my computer though.

That is EXACTLY my point

[AnanoKimi]

(Get well soon! I myself am fighting with a terrible cough these days...)

Fuzzbucket asked me directly and I replied..?

I have no problem with you stating that I "only include other languages so it won't look bad and be rejected" if that's what you think. Considering that I'm German and would like to see German Umlauts, considering that I can use Japanese, considering that I still remember French, considering that I would also use Polish since that's the mother tongue of my parents, considering I am very interested in Chinese & Afrikaans but just too busy for studying regularly...

And while I also have no problem with being told that this suggestion does not improve game play, ease of access and that "it's only for me so I can name my dragon how I want", please consider that there are people who would like to see an extended alphabet - which you seem to support?

 

 

That's what I actually thought as well earlier but didn't write it.

 

@DragonNighthowler

Yes, let's just agree to disagree here. Languages are very complex and very interesting, I agree - I wish I could learn many more

(Thank you and same to you. Colds are a nasty thing really.)

 

I wanted to add in that it was meant as no offense, more like what its seemed. So I am glad it was not taken offensively. Yes extended alphabet is something I support but mainly because they are understandable and legible English letters. Only difference is they have accents on them. Seeing as the ability to slip in nasty words already exist, the point is moot but what I do see is just the inability to read the name as Kanji regardless. Those boxes and what not many show could cause issues as many have stated in lineages and such. Some don't always play on computers as well so stating that they can hover their mouse over a lineage doesn't help mobile or tablet users.

 

Extended alphabet is easily available even in mobile and tablet devices so that would be no issue for mobile users, and it is already part of every computer that has an ALT key and a side number pad to be able to add these in with the right code. All in all yes it might be bothersome that you cannot use the romanji the way you want to know the meaning but all in all adding in Kanji and any other foreign characters is just asking for newbie complaints and user complaints, more work than is necessary, and just its not worth it. I'm sorry.

 

I did also suggest using the Kana and translating it to Romanji. My boyfriend studies Japanese language and culture when he has time and suggested that as an alternative. I dont know how much that would help. :3

[Mondat]

(Thank you and same to you. Colds are a nasty thing really.)

 

I wanted to add in that it was meant as no offense, more like what its seemed. So I am glad it was not taken offensively. Yes extended alphabet is something I support but mainly because they are understandable and legible English letters. Only difference is they have accents on them. Seeing as the ability to slip in nasty words already exist, the point is moot but what I do see is just the inability to read the name as Kanji regardless. Those boxes and what not many show could cause issues as many have stated in lineages and such. Some don't always play on computers as well so stating that they can hover their mouse over a lineage doesn't help mobile or tablet users.

 

Extended alphabet is easily available even in mobile and tablet devices so that would be no issue for mobile users, and it is already part of every computer that has an ALT key and a side number pad to be able to add these in with the right code. All in all yes it might be bothersome that you cannot use the romanji the way you want to know the meaning but all in all adding in Kanji and any other foreign characters is just asking for newbie complaints and user complaints, more work than is necessary, and just its not worth it. I'm sorry.

 

I did also suggest using the Kana and translating it to Romanji. My boyfriend studies Japanese language and culture when he has time and suggested that as an alternative. I dont know how much that would help. :3

And I do take your points (and the points of others, unfortunately it's impossible to reply to every single person and every single comment time/effortwise - especially when I feel that I or others already addressed them in another words earlier). Considering that I myself probably would have problems seeing other foreign characters too etc. I see no reason to disagree. However, basing on my DC gameplay and my preferences overall I still do not see these as much of a problem (as I said earlier, we all get to have a choice which egg we keep). Please do not throw tomatoes at me.

Furthermore, I just wish I would not feel kind of "singled out by others when they reply" because I mentioned wanting to get Japanese in the first post. I would like to point out that I am on your side - but I cannot help being biased because of my wants/situation, I would like to have more than you.

To me it's like this:

- getting the whole foreign character package = YAY BABY YEAH

- getting only diacritical marks = YAY BABY YEAH

- naming staying the same = well, I have to/can accept the situation

 

(And sorry, but I am not sure your boyfriend's suggestion helps me. My point is that I have problems reading romanized Japanese for understanding the meaning in original Japanese. Me writing down Romaji would be not useful for my Japanese studies and rather a waste of time - and in daily life, I do not have to use Romaji most of the time. I do sometimes write weird shopping lists in a mix of Romaji, Kanji, Hiragana, Katakana, German and English when I'm in a hurry, though ahahaha. Then there are also Furigana (Japanese reading aid), which one can also find in Mangas.)

[AnanoKimi]

I'm sorry if it feels like I'm picking on you >.< Though there have been many who support the ability to have their language characters included, as the bringer of the suggestion I must address you to address the whole.

 

On a personal level I don't mind, but you are speaking of a game breaking issue for some. Those who would not be able to read the dragon names, check for inbreds, mess up possible lineage pages, mobile users having a harder time with AP eggs, more mods to add to read these names, over all confusion, its not worth the trouble for a personal preference.

 

I know its a bit annoying but many have already stated that as an English based site, all things should remain English for the sake of ease for not only users but the staff and owner as well. All of those things need to be considered. This will only add problems to everyone else other than you and the few who could read Kanji.

 

If you are looking to practice your use of Kanji over Romanji then I would suggest looking for native based click sites in the language you wish to use. There are also many tools that you could try and find where you can sit down for x time during the day and practice your Kanji. Story or poetry writing is one way, maybe trying to make friends or talk to already good friends of yours there in Japan and ask if it is ok for you to email them on a daily basis to practice your use of written Japanese. With the vast internet available to you, trying to change one aspect of am Enlgish game to only fit one or a few people's needs seems moot.

Edited January 11, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Mondat]

I'm sorry if it feels like I'm picking on you >.< Though there have been many who support the ability to have their language characters included, as the bringer of the suggestion I must address you to address the whole.

 

On a personal level I don't mind, but you are speaking of a game breaking issue for some. Those who would not be able to read the dragon names, check for inbreds, mess up possible lineage pages, mobile users having a harder time with AP eggs, more mods to add to read these names, over all confusion, its not worth the trouble for a personal preference.

 

I know its a bit annoying but many have already stated that as an English based site, all things should remain English for the sake of ease for not only users but the staff and owner as well. All of those things need to be considered. This will only add problems to everyone else other than you and the few who could read Kanji.

 

If you are looking to practice your use of Kanji over Romanji then I would suggest looking for native based click sites in the language you wish to use. There are also many tools that you could try and find where you can sit down for x time during the day and practice your Kanji. Story or poetry writing is one way, maybe trying to make friends or talk to already good friends of yours there in Japan and ask if it is ok for you to email them on a daily basis to practice your use of written Japanese. With the vast internet available to you, trying to change one aspect of am Enlgish game to only fit one or a few people's needs seems moot.

Opening a thread may not mean that I or my situation have to be addressed directly the whole time - there are some threads here where people just open a thread to have a place to talk about things.

 

And not to be rude, but I would really like to avoid talking about my personal life in detail when the topic is "Allow foreign characters or not?". I am not looking for advice to improve my Japanese either and use Japanese all the time, but thank you.

[AnanoKimi]

I did state that I was not just addressing you, I was address those who supported this to add in their languages as well. I am not picking on you, I am replying based on your and everyone elses feed back. So I am not just talking to you, I am talking generally. The problem is as I stated you brought up the suggestion, you used personal examples, I have been reading through the thread and other than a few words using extended alphabet, your example is the best I can use since its the only one using truly foreign characters. I haven't seen an arabic, korean, chinese, or other user that require different characters post something in their native or comfortable language to use as an example.

 

The best I have are your OP examples and the images of people whom have no names whose valentine flower pot messages got skewed. Again, I did state an apology ahead of time, but with no other examples to draw from, I must refer to your circumstance and the reason for this suggestion every so often to back up my points. I am sorry if this bothers you.

 

As for the last part, alright. Though whatever personal reason you have seems to be part of why this suggestion exists. Once again, I am sorry if my reference to your suggestion and circumstance has bothered you. I have tried to be as general and polite as possible in my posts, but I do require refeences when making certain arguments. So as a final thought, once again, I'm sorry.

[Mondat]

I did state that I was not just addressing you, I was address those who supported this to add in their languages as well. I am not picking on you, I am replying based on your and everyone elses feed back. So I am not just talking to you, I am talking generally. The problem is as I stated you brought up the suggestion, you used personal examples, I have been reading through the thread and other than a few words using extended alphabet, your example is the best I can use since its the only one using truly foreign characters. I haven't seen an arabic, korean, chinese, or other user that require different characters post something in their native or comfortable language to use as an example.

 

The best I have are your OP examples and the images of people whom have no names whose valentine flower pot messages got skewed. Again, I did state an apology ahead of time, but with no other examples to draw from, I must refer to your circumstance and the reason for this suggestion every so often to back up my points. I am sorry if this bothers you.

 

As for the last part, alright. Though whatever personal reason you have seems to be part of why this suggestion exists. Once again, I am sorry if my reference to your suggestion and circumstance has bothered you. I have tried to be as general and polite as possible in my posts, but I do require refeences when making certain arguments. So as a final thought, once again, I'm sorry.

Understood & nevermind

I've edited the first post - it was probably my mistake, should have posted a personal opinion after the first post like other people do here on this forum. Will also add other things later.

[mpolo]

Maybe a compromise would be for TJ to find a free webfont to use on the site that includes a good subset of Unicode. If you use those characters, you are guaranteed that everyone (who has a browser capable of using webfonts — which is an issue: even I occasionally have problems) can see your names correctly. With the Christmas cards, there was certainly an issue of the occasional character that wasn't in TJ's webfont and looked silly in the font that I had containing the letter. This was most notable in Polish and Elvish:

 

Wesołych Świąt Bożego Narodzenia! Had oversized ł and ą and ż, while

 

Alassëa merendë! Had huge ë's.

 

The things I got in Cyrillic or Chinese were probably a bit oversized, but since those gifts used exclusively those letters, it wasn't so jarring.

[Obscure_Trash]

On a personal level I don't mind, but you are speaking of a game breaking issue for some. Those who would not be able to read the dragon names, check for inbreds, mess up possible lineage pages, mobile users having a harder time with AP eggs, more mods to add to read these names, over all confusion, its not worth the trouble for a personal preference.

I just want to clarify that this would not qualify more mods as we have no mods specifically for names. If more characters are added, we'll continue doing the same - mostly relying on users to report inappropriate names. It's a lot easier to come across inappropriate names in lineages and such moreso than it is trying to guess them and just coming across them. ^^

[AnanoKimi]

I just want to clarify that this would not qualify more mods as we have no mods specifically for names. If more characters are added, we'll continue doing the same - mostly relying on users to report inappropriate names. It's a lot easier to come across inappropriate names in lineages and such moreso than it is trying to guess them and just coming across them. ^^

Touche, still an issue for some users thoug, and still more trouble than its worth in my opinion though.

[Laugh]

After reading Sock's post regarding the moderator issue, I support this. As a bi-lingual (English and Vietnamese) there are lots of different characters I adore in both languages that I wouldn't doubt that I would name a dragon(s) with characters in both languages simply because they look pretty together! It could have a meaning or no meaning at all ^-^ Would be somewhat like "Code collectors", but instead you're just naming just because it looks pretty together. It would be really interesting to what users can come up with this feature.

 

I was meaning to post this, but never got around to it, but for those that are worried about their lineages and picking inbred dragons I have two solutions for you.

 

1) CTRL + F will open a little text finder at the top right of your browser (for mozilla and chrome anyways, not sure about other browsers). And obviously if it's something in Mondat's language where the characters simply aren't on English keyboards then just copy and paste it within the text finder (Highlight then press CTRL C and then click within the text finder and hold down CTRL V in the text finder) as this will highlight the text that matches it. This will indicate that the lineage is inbred. If anyone needs help doing that then I don't mind making a little walkthrough/tutorial on that with step by step screenshots! ^__^

 

2) Allure of Neglected Dragon's Inbred Checker and Lineage Viewer and Generation Counter would also be extremely useful if different characters were ever to be introduced. You can use the Inbred Checker solely for the egg you pick up. Just insert the code and tick the square after the: "Show inbred-causing dragons". After that just click "Submit" at the bottom and voila, it will highlight in red around the boxes of dragons that cause the inbreeding. The second is after you notice there isn't any inbreeding you pair it up with a lineaged dragon you're wanting to pair it up with. Just put in the codes in both boxes of the two and click whatever the resulting generation would be. I suggest ticking the squares next to, "Highlight visible inbreeding", and "Hide empty cells" that way you can see if it'll inbred or not with your lineage project (well I guess if all the dragons in your lineage project have english characters and you pick one up with Mondat's language characters then that should tell you it won't inbred anyways) + empty cells within generation would not appear if you selected 12 for the "show x generations" when it's only going to result into a 4g or 5g and so on. Speaking of lineage projects, I wouldn't doubt someone would try a lineage where they try and gather different dragons named with different characters of languages.

 

Again, if needed, I can provide step-by-step screenshots to walk users through if needed.

 

I honestly think that we won't have too much of an issue with inappropriate names though. Or at least, I'd like to be optimistic about that at the very least. ^^;

[AndyFromStateFarm]

Not sure where this thread should go so feel free to move to general discussion.

 

What I mean by multi language support for dragon names is a fairly simple concept; you should be able to have dragons named in different languages. For example, if I wanted to name my dragon Neptune in Greek (wouldn't that be funny), I should be able to do that. However, I can't use Greek characters in the name, so I have to come as close as I can to the Greek word using English letters. Not fun.

 

So, do you guys think this should happen? Or am I overreacting (please don't answer that believe me I'm perfectly aware)?

[Fuzzbucket]

Straight answer ? No. Sorry, but I don't want non-Roman letters up there in my lineages. Accents and things - OK - but not Chinese/Japanese/Cyrillic. Just TOO much, too complicated.

[olympe]

Straight answer ? No. Sorry, but I don't want non-Roman letters up there in my lineages. Accents and things - OK - but not Chinese/Japanese/Cyrillic. Just TOO much, too complicated.

Personally, I don't think Greek and Cyrillic are too bad, they still look like letters. (Greek more, Cyrillic less IMHO.) But Japanese or other Asian symbols - just don't like letter-like any more, they're way too complex for me to grasp.

[dragongrrl]

I like to know what names mean, and having other characters is just going to make translation more difficult. Is it Arabic or Turkish or Ethiopian, Greek or Russian, or which variation of an Asian language?

If we can't identify the script, how can we translate a name? Even Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish or Danish characters, if we don't know which language to translate from, what can we do?

 

I think adding other characters will take away our common ground and the international cooperation that really is a wonderful part of this game.

[VixenDra]

I'd like to see the accents - assumed they would show properly for everyone.

 

But would Polish(my language) letters count into the set of additional characters?

ĄĘÓŚĆŹŻŁŃ?

They're also from that latin kind of alphabet and add other pronounciation & are important for orthography.

I don't use Polish names, I mostly use Latin as a name base but would be cool if all the little symbols could be introduced^^

 

I have mixed feelings about the totally other alphabets...

I think we perhaps could have sth like double naming then? like the foreign charatcers + the latin rooted alphabet of corresponding signs? All those names etc. are possible to 'translate' into the 'common alphabet' after all^^ So one dragon would have kind of two names(but would have to be close), one in larger font

But true that this could still be difficult to deal with from the side of moderation/controll...

Simply introducing the little signs to the 'common alphabet's' characters wouldn't do much harm or anything, would be even easier to translate (google translator gets hopeless if such things are missing) and catch I believe.

 

On the other hand perhaps just the bare English alphabet gives a more unified feeling to the Dragon names?

though I can't help seeing the foreign when I can clearly see a Graman name I mean I can understand some German but it's so obvious to me it's from another language than the main... But still, lack of those accent characters doesn't stop people form using those names:)

Edited October 16, 2015 by VixenDra

[cyradis4]

Honestly? This is an English site, and I think that it should just be the English alphabet.

 

Just like, if I were playing on a Japanese site, I would expect it to be all Japanese. Or a Polish site, I'd expect it to be all Polish.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[lanette]

My mother tongue is Sinhalese, so I understand what the OP is trying to say about some foreign words when romanized looking ugly. However, when you open this can of worms, you also get the problem of where do you draw the line? If Chinese and Japanese is allowed, then someone else is going to want Hebrew or Hindi or Arabic or Greek or, heck, why not even Sinhalese?, in there. You can't cater to everyone, which will result in resentment and drama (just think of the Holiday Raffle drama every year!). First, it would be a moderating nightmare. Second, ylangylang brought up a very good point on the first page - if my language characters were allowed, I'd hate to see a name that was butchered by someone who didn't know how to spell it properly. So no, I am not in favor of allowing non-romanized characters in dragon names.

 

That all said, I am not opposed to allowing roman characters with different diacritics (accents, umlaut, tilde ect.) in names, because they would still be legible to all users here (albeit with bad pronunciation, but I'm sure we're doing that here with some names anyway).

 

 

[zaverxi]

There's some accented letters in the English language, due to it absorbing dozens of languages and assimilating them over the years.

 

naïve

 

resumé (as opposed to 'resume' which means something else entirely) or frappé, latté, etc.

 

façade

 

To some extent jalapeño and others with the tilde.

 

Emily Brontë is a name most of us would be familiar with, as well as many famous Zoës and Chloës etc.

 

Diacritical accents should be allowed, within reason. Since it is an English-based game, the ones that are associated with English like the ones above should be ok.

 

All these are available on all English-based computers without needing to download any codexes, which are needed to be able to see others. If it shows up as a square on a Windows XP OS, it probably shouldn't be used.